How to forgive, forget and accept someone has changed

[Babolat]

Not sure where to post this....

 

Some of you know my story, so I will not go into the details. See my thread on No Contact for details.

 

If you feel like you want to bash me, again, please don't reply. I am seriously looking for some good sound advice here. Maybe even from someone who has been there, done that.

 

My ex gf contacted me a couple of weeks ago stating she wanted to talk to me. It had been almost 3 months since we last saw each other. I did not want to meet, she said it was really important, so, I agreed.

 

She wants to try again. She states she has done a lot of reflection, a lot of thinking, a lot of trying to figure out why she was, the way she was, while we dated. She also states she needed to be alone, by herself, until she could make sense of everything. She knew she needed to make life changes, and she wanted to make them for her, not for me. She told me many times over the past 8+ months (since I broke up with her) she knew she may lose me, but she had to do this alone.

 

She was going thru major life transitions when we met: she just came out of a 7 year relationship/engagement (4 months before we met), moved back to her home town, no home (she was living with friends), no job, raising her daughter on her own for the first time in 7+ years, reconnecting with life long friends she was not allowed to see in her last relationship (he was very controlling), etc. These friends pretty much rasied her, as her parents abandoned her at a young age. She was also coming off a heavy daily does of Xanax. So, she was a mess. I saw it, talked to her about it a lot while we were dating. She would acknowldege it, but say she was ok.

 

She says now, looking back, she realizes she was very much in love with me, though because of feeling judged by me (for her drinking and partying lifestyle), then starting to resent me for judging her, not feeling like I was in it for the long term, she was not 100% comitted to the relationship. She felt like she was, then, but, looking back, now knows she was not. She states it took her a while to figure out why she made some of the decisions she made: partying with friends all weekend and "disapperaing on me", staying in a hotel room with her male best friend when he came into town, she felt these friends were more important to her, they have been there for her her entire life, she was reconnecting with them (ex did not allow her to spend time with them), and, she did not feel committed to me because of the above reasons. She also thinks she was using alcohol as a substitute for Xanax.

 

I have asked her about all of the events that bothered me, upset me, when we dated (see my posts on some of the events). She has said "that will never happen again as I am comitted to you, us, and this is what i want". She states she feels more stable now, she has been in her home for 1.5 years, she has had a job for 1.5 years, she is making money, taking classes, working out, eating healthier, went to a credit recory wokshop and is getting her credit score up, etc. She states she has no desire to go out partying, that it's behind her. She will have the occassional girls night out, but, she will not stay out all night, and she wants to come home to me, not stay out. She said she has no desire to stay out late at bars, go out to bars without me, etc. She said "I now feel like I can contribute to our relationship"

 

She did volunteer that while we were apart, her and her ex talked a lot. She has to see him once a month or so when she drops her daughter off to visit with him and his kids. Her daughter is close to them and she wants to keep those relationships going. Her ex had broken up with his new gf during this time. She was trying to "coach" him, help him, to get back with his ex gf. In doing so, they ended up talking a lot about their relationship, their breakup, etc. She said some things about him became clearer to her, that she was not as mad at him as she was before. She then told me that they slept together. She said she felt alone, and he, accepted her. That made her feel good. She said it was just sex, she does not love him nor does she have any desire to get back with him. She said we were apart so she does not feel like she has cheated. She also said it's something she has never done before in her life, just sex. Sex for her is emotional. Not sure I agree with that as it's my guess there was some emotion since it's her ex. She said it was importnat for her to tell me this in case it came up in the future, she did not want it to appear as though she was hiding it.

 

Her having sex with another man does not bother me. We were not dating. What bothers me is who, and when. I asked her when, she said "I think it was during blah blah". During blah blah period of time, her and I were texting a lot, and, we were sleeping together too. Maybe once a week. And, there was a period of time then when she stayed at my house for 5 days. I shared that with her. She said she was not for exactly sure on the dates when she was with him, it's been a while (about 3-4 months ago). This, to me, feels like cheating, if indeed she was sleeping with him, while sleeping with me. Not sure why I feel that way. Plus, going back to a man who cheated on her, who emotionally and physically abused her, just feels unhealthy to me. She said their talks helped her a lot, helped her grow, helped her process what happened with them. Helped her understand herself better.

 

So, I don't know how to forgive and forget. I don't know if she has changed. Her message is amazing. She states she too is taking a risk, a risk that I will judge her, a risk that she will get hurt. But, she wants to take that risk, because she knows now, she wants to comitt to me, 100%. And, knowing herself, where she has rarely fully comitted to a man, this is a big deal to her (her ex cheated on her multiple times).

 

We spent the weekend together and yes, her drinking is WAY down. Friday night, 3 drinks over 4 hours and she was ready to go home before I was, Saturday night, no drinking.

 

I am scared, scared of "what if" she has not changed. I have expressed this to her. She has also unfriended a lot of what I saw as male orbitoirs on her FB page. Men who left inappropritate comments on her posts while we were dating. She said she finally saw, what I saw. Inappropriaye comments, and, that maybe they were looking for more than a friendship. She has told her male bf to f off as he made a sexual comment about her, to a mutual friend, that got back to her. She said she knew he was a male whore, she was ok with that, but never saw it towards her. Once she did, he was gone. She states she still cares about him, and maybe, at some point in the future they will work it out, but for now she wants nothing to do with him.

 

So, how do you forgive, forget, have no doubts, and take a risk? I have talked to one of my female best friends, and, she tells me if I can't forget, if I have doubts, don't do it. I have to go into it 100% doubt free, and, I have to forget about the past, our dating past, and forget about her sleeping with her ex, that she made a mistake in a weak moment. My friend said I can't ask questions over and over and I can't bring up the past with her.

 

She told me she will still be taking her daughter down to spend time with him and his kids; there will be no talks, no spending time together with him, but that I need to be OK with it.

 

I can now somewhat relate to someone who has been cheated on, the person comes back, says they have changed, you want to believe them..but you are scared and not sure you want to take the risk.

 

My best friend asked me why do i want to go back to her? But for the bad when we dated, she is an amazing woman, and we have a special connection I cannot deny.

 

Thanks in advance for reading, and offering any feedback.

[Philosoraptor]

The thing is that if you are scared of the "what if" this isn't going to work. A second chance has to be done by completely letting go of the past, trusting that the past issues are fully resolved, and making it a new relationship... not a continuation of the past one.

 

So the real question is, what makes you believe that these past issues are truly resolved and will not bite you on the ass again? If you truly had these answers it wouldn't be a risk and you wouldn't be questioning things here. Therefore, I would not do it as the little voice inside is telling you to be hesistent and not trust it.

[soccerrprp]

Wow. First of all, you cannot forget. You just won't. But, there is some truth to moving ahead and into the future by not drudging up the past. She will feel resentful and discouraged.

 

It sounds to me her recollection of her infidelity is suspect. It was only 3-4 months ago and she can't remember for certain if she was sleeping with this guy while with you? Red flag for me.

 

I, personally would not tolerate this and certainly would not have her back in my life w/o her cutting all ties with the people that encouraged and engaged in the activities that led to your break-up. She "may" have changed, but they have not.

 

Also, you cannot be reasonable 100% doubt-free. It's the doubt, caution that will help prevent you from being sucked in again. A healthy dose of skepticism is necessary.

 

I must last add that her character is suspect. You say you have a "special" connection...whatever that means, but she is a mother that engaged in irresponsible behavior. No way I would get back with a woman like that. I would wish her the best, but that would not be with me if I were in your situation.

 

Forgive, perhaps. Forget....that's an illusion.

Edited November 26, 2013 by soccerrprp

[Babolat]

It sounds to me her recollection of her infidelity is suspect. It was only 3-4 months ago and she can't remember for certain if she was sleeping with this guy while with you? Red flag for me.

 

She said "It was in August" when I asked. I reminded her we spent a lot of time together in August, how could she have felt alone. She said she does not recall the exact dates, but thinks it was in August. She made 3 trips down to see her daughter then (her daughter spent most of the summer with her ex and his kids). I want to ask her more about this, and I know she will answer truthfully. Just not sure if I should.

 

Infidelity, that's where I struggle. Was this infidelity? I have been with other woman since we broke up; it took me a long time too, sometime in October was my first, if I recall the time correctly. And, as I type, I could not tell you when I slept with the girl I slept with in October, I just know it was in October, or maybe the end of September.

[Babolat]

I must last add that her character is suspect. You say you have a "special" connection...whatever that means, but she is a mother that engaged in irresponsible behavior. No way I would get back with a woman like that. I would wish her the best, but that would not be with me if I were in your situation.

 

I hear you, and I think about this. I listen to how she talks about her daughter, and, I watch her interactions with her daughter. She is an amazing single mom and is doing everything she can to make sure her daughter has a better childhood then she did. She can barely pay her bills and has recently put her daughter in tutoring, and I know this is a financial struggle for her to do. She's also putting taking her additional classes on hold for this, for her daughter.

 

In the 12 months we dated, my best guess is this irresponsible behavior occurred, 6-10 times, and, her daughter was spending the night with family, or a friend at the time. Never was any of this in front of her daughter. I viewed it as "her time out" with friends, like any single mom would want to do, I think.

[soccerrprp]

Babolat,

 

Just be careful with this if you are going to allow for a second chance. It seems you have more to lose. Weigh heavily on this and be smart and please forget about the "special" connection. You probably can't even verbalize it and it's nothing more than irrational emotions that will ONLY taint your objectivity.

[Babolat]

So the real question is, what makes you believe that these past issues are truly resolved and will not bite you on the ass again? If you truly had these answers it wouldn't be a risk and you wouldn't be questioning things here. Therefore, I would not do it as the little voice inside is telling you to be hesistent and not trust it.

All I have is her words, and we talked about this a lot. She was joking and asked if I was going to put her on "probation".

 

The only way to truly know is to spend time with her, in my opinion, to watch and observe. I don't know how else to trust her words..is there another way?

[StanMusial]

 

My ex gf contacted me a couple of weeks ago stating she wanted to talk to me. It had been almost 3 months since we last saw each other. I did not w

 

She was going thru major life transitions when we met: she just came out of a 7 year relationship/engagement (4 months before we met), moved back to her home town, no home (she was living with friends), no job, raising her daughter on her own for the first time in 7+ years, reconnecting with life long friends she was not allowed to see in her last relationship (he was very controlling), etc. These friends pretty much rasied her, as her parents abandoned her at a young age. She was also coming off a heavy daily does of Xanax. So, she was a mess. I saw it, talked to her about it a lot while we were dating. She would acknowldege it, but say she was ok.

 

 

 

I must last add that her character is suspect. You say you have a "special" connection...whatever that means, but she is a mother that engaged in irresponsible behavior. No way I would get back with a woman like that. I would wish her the best, but that would not be with me if I were in your situation.

 

Forgive, perhaps. Forget....that's an illusion.

 

I don't know what kind of "connection" you have/had with her, but I suspect you are lonely and wearing rose-tinted glasses. I don't know how you or anyone could have a meaningful relationship with this woman. You have all the facts. Personally I would wish her well in her recovery efforts and move on.

[d0nnivain]

Not enough time has passed for her behaviors to be true lifestyle changes. Give it some more time.

[soccerrprp]

I hear you, and I think about this. I listen to how she talks about her daughter, and, I watch her interactions with her daughter. She is an amazing single mom and is doing everything she can to make sure her daughter has a better childhood then she did. She can barely pay her bills and has recently put her daughter in tutoring, and I know this is a financial struggle for her to do. She's also putting taking her additional classes on hold for this, for her daughter.

 

In the 12 months we dated, my best guess is this irresponsible behavior occurred, 6-10 times, and, her daughter was spending the night with family, or a friend at the time. Never was any of this in front of her daughter. I viewed it as "her time out" with friends, like any single mom would want to do, I think.

 

That's 6-10 times too many. And yes, she is entitled to her free time, but responsibly. Is getting wasted, having sex with other guys responsible?

[KathyM]

It's not a good risk to take her back. She is pretty messed up still. She may be making the effort now to change, but there is still too much dysfunction in her life. By all means forgive her, but that doesn't mean that you have to take her back. Dysfunctional women do not make good relationship partners. People with poor self control do not make good relationship partners. I know she is making some effort now, but she has a long way to go, and may never be emotionally healthy/stable enough to be a good relationship partner. It's not your job to be her knight in shining armor or her rescuer. You need to find a healthy woman to have a relationship with if you want to have a successful relationship long-term. I would not suggest getting back together with her. You will just be getting her hopes up, and the relationship will eventually experience the same issues as before. She may claim she has changed, and she may be making an effort to change, but it is still too big of a risk for you to get back into it. Find someone who is healthy and doesn't have this dysfunction and poor self control.

[Babolat]

having sex with other guys responsible?

She did not have sex with other guys while we dated. My best guess, knowing her, is that while we were apart for 8+ months, she was with me a few times sexually, and what she told me about her ex, and that's the only men.

[Babolat]

I don't know what kind of "connection" you have/had with her, but I suspect you are lonely and wearing rose-tinted glasses. I don't know how you or anyone could have a meaningful relationship with this woman. You have all the facts. Personally I would wish her well in her recovery efforts and move on.

 

I am not lonely, that is for sure. I am doing well, enjoy being by myself, spending time with friends, dating again, etc. Sure, the idea of a relationship is exciting, by I am not lonely. I am also not wearing rose tinted glasses. I know what was, and would could still be (the bad for me).

 

The connection was a deep connection I have not had with any woman. It's difficult to explain, and. it's what still has me curious.

[RedRobin]

I don't think it is healthy for her to look to you for acceptance/redemption.

 

You went along with the partying for quite awhile yourself. Perhaps not quite as much... but you enjoyed the nights out too, or so I recall. Funded by you too, correct??

 

Also not good for her to be sharing what she did while you two were in limbo based on your response above. If memory serves, there was a don't ask, don't tell policy going on between the two of you at the time.

 

You don't get to go back and claim she 'cheated' on you. She didn't. You two weren't together. You were actively pursuing, if not sleeping with, at least two other women at the time. Did you share that with her?? Or no.

 

And why the concern about whether the sex with her ex emotional or not? You've had a FWB yourself for awhile now.

 

Now you want to come here with the information she unwisely shared with you... for what??

 

This thing is so over. Time to stop re-writing history and just move on.

[Lokie]

Oh, this is a tough one. I read from your post and responses that you really want to reconnect with this woman and it feels to me as though you are building a case as to why this is a good idea. I don't feel from you that you are open to opinions, but that is just… my opinion.

 

I was in a relationship with someone who cheated and also had a substance abuse issue. The relationship met so many other needs of mine at the time that I wouldn't listen to anyone's advice -- in face it would get me quite angry. It is so easy for us to make statements outside the womb of someone else's bond, and I would say to myself, "are they going to hold my hand on Saturday nights when I am alone and in pain after I leave this person?" That thought kept me in that relationship far longer than it should have.

 

Personally, from my outside view, I see you as a sort of rescuer to this woman. She sounds to be quite needy and disjunct at this time, and you sound grounded and stable. Have you explored with this is attractive to you? I am concerned with the fact that you know how many drinks she had on a particular night -- that is parental behavior in my opinion, not boyfriend behavior.

 

Babolat, I enjoy your posts and love your pancake-headed bunny, and I truly want you to be happy. Having been in a situation where I watched my partner's every move, I just want to offer that for me, it is far more satisfying and rich to be in a partnership with someone who is also a stable, grounded adult to enjoy life to its fullest.

 

L.

[Babolat]

You went along with the partying for quite awhile yourself. Perhaps not quite as much... but you enjoyed the nights out too, or so I recall. Funded by you too, correct??.

 

Correct

 

If memory serves, there was a don't ask, don't tell policy going on between the two of you at the time.

 

Not correct, we never discussed this. She shared, in her words, in the event it came up in the future she did not want me to think she was hiding it.

 

You don't get to go back and claim she 'cheated' on you. She didn't. You two weren't together. You were actively pursuing, if not sleeping with, at least two other women at the time. Did you share that with her?? Or no.

 

I am not saying she cheated, I am saying for me, it feels that way, who & when she had sex, not the act of sex itself, and I would like to move past that feeling. If she had dated someone, had a one night stand, or whatever, I would not care. No, I did not share my stories; I was going to when she said what I did while we were apart did not matter to her as we were not dating

[Babolat]

Oh, this is a tough one. I read from your post and responses that you really want to reconnect with this woman and it feels to me as though you are building a case as to why this is a good idea. I don't feel from you that you are open to opinions, but that is just… my opinion.

 

I was in a relationship with someone who cheated and also had a substance abuse issue. The relationship met so many other needs of mine at the time that I wouldn't listen to anyone's advice -- in face it would get me quite angry. It is so easy for us to make statements outside the womb of someone else's bond, and I would say to myself, "are they going to hold my hand on Saturday nights when I am alone and in pain after I leave this person?" That thought kept me in that relationship far longer than it should have.

 

Personally, from my outside view, I see you as a sort of rescuer to this woman. She sounds to be quite needy and disjunct at this time, and you sound grounded and stable. Have you explored with this is attractive to you? I am concerned with the fact that you know how many drinks she had on a particular night -- that is parental behavior in my opinion, not boyfriend behavior.

 

Babolat, I enjoy your posts and love your pancake-headed bunny, and I truly want you to be happy. Having been in a situation where I watched my partner's every move, I just want to offer that for me, it is far more satisfying and rich to be in a partnership with someone who is also a stable, grounded adult to enjoy life to its fullest.

 

L.

 

I do think some of my replies come across as being defensive, not wanting an opinion. That is not the case. I don't explain well at times, and, my replies are for clarity, not to defend her or to say no to an opinion. I put myself here to hear opinions.

 

And, I need to repeat, this woman did not have sex with other men while we dated, so, she did not cheat on me while we dated. The sitiutations she put herself in, concerned me, though I always trusted her.

[lifeunderground]

She might be sincere but you really don't want to get on the habit of make up/ break up.

 

Time apart may have changed her or she is now aware she has you wherever she wants you...

 

People can reform despite all the answers stating otherwise.

 

I've done it....but by the time I was serious he was long gone (this was middle-highschool mind you so don't judge!)

 

We were together for 3 years and once I hit high-school I couldn't stay faithful.

We would go on "breaks".constantly

And I loved him but was so entranced by the newness of high school guys.

I was also severely suicidal and emotionally imbalanced

Eventually he found someone else and later I realized he was the best thing that ever happened to me but it was too late...

 

Since then I've completely reformed and stay faithful in all my relationships.

 

So people CAN change.

 

I hope in your case she does.

 

But if you see any similar patterns please just walk away instead of accepting it.

 

Don't be a doormat.

[Babolat]

Personally, from my outside view, I see you as a sort of rescuer to this woman. She sounds to be quite needy and disjunct at this time, and you sound grounded and stable. Have you explored with this is attractive to you? I am concerned with the fact that you know how many drinks she had on a particular night -- that is parental behavior in my opinion, not boyfriend behavior..

 

Yes, I have, and I have read a lot on codependency too. I am very aware of it this time, and I am not going to rescue her, fix her, help her. It's one reason her comment to me over the weekend "I now feel like I can contribute to this relationship" struck a chord with me.

 

Counting the drinks is an interesting point. I say that, as I have said recently to some of the woman I have dated/gone out with, when they mentioned how many drinks they had the next day in conversation, that I had no idea as I was not watching/keeping up with them. For her, right now, to me, I do think it would be important to "watch and count", as it would tell me if she is really changed/changing.

[lifeunderground]

Also

 

Having sex with her child's father is a MAJOR concern...

 

I'm a single mom and I would not ever go there because I have no feelings for him whatsoever...

[Babolat]

I hope in your case she does.

 

But if you see any similar patterns please just walk away instead of accepting it.

 

Don't be a doormat.

 

Trust me, if I do decide to continue, and I see a hint of similar patterns, I am gone, and I will tell her this before I "make my decision". I have already brought up some of the past examples of times that upset me, caused me anxiety,and, if that were to happen again I will no tbe there for her to "come home to".

 

It feels very harsh to tell someone this, and maybe she'll say f-u, but, it would be something I would have to tell her prior to making a comittment.

 

I did tell her I had been on two dates recently with a woman, and was planning a 3rd, when she asked to meet me. She asked me if I was going to go on the 3rd date, and, I told her I did not know yet.

[Babolat]

Also

 

Having sex with her child's father is a MAJOR concern...

 

I'm a single mom and I would not ever go there because I have no feelings for him whatsoever...

 

Understood

 

Her childs father has been out of the picture since her daughter was 1.

 

This is a man she entered into a relationship with when her daughter was 5. They were together for 7 years. He has 2 kids from a prior marriage that her daughter considers her siblings. This is truly the first, and only, father figure her daughter ever had.

[lifeunderground]

Understood

 

Her childs father has been out of the picture since her daughter was 1.

 

This is a man she entered into a relationship with when her daughter was 5. They were together for 7 years. He has 2 kids from a prior marriage that her daughter considers her siblings. This is truly the first, and only, father figure her daughter ever had.

 

Hmm I see but still the father figure factor could pose an issue

 

Just be careful make your decisions slowly and make sure you are able to start over.

 

The hurt she put you thru is understandable you may never get over it.

 

I wouldn't blame you.

[MidwestUSA]

I'm going to be somewhat harsh here, but my gut is screaming 'NO'. People do not change in three months; she may have toned things down, but that's all.

 

The whole sleeping with ex thing, just a big flag.

 

She's going to entice you with sex - you slept together that first night you met up again. That's a powerful pull, I know.

 

You would be wise to go back and read the threads you started when she was pulling her stunts - the hotel rooms (just friends, yea), the bachelorette auction or whatever it was. She truly believes that these things are acceptable. She may never do them again; doesn't change the fact that she sees no harm in such activities.

 

Look how far you've come! Sadly, I get the feeling that you're going to put yourself through it all over again, I really do. Best of luck, whatever your decision.

[Sunfire73]

If she has changed, she needs more time alone, to make sure that she is not dependent on you for this change. You have a codependent relationship, which is not healthy. You're like drugs to each other. The relationship is very volatile and if you do see some progress on her, why not wait a little more and maybe when you're at your healthiest self you won't want each other? A good relationship is smooth sailing, and not a lot of drama. And no you don't forget someone's past, especially if you were part of it. But you do can forgive. I think y'all need some extensive counselling if you want to go back together.