How to forgive, forget and accept someone has changed

[Babolat]

I've been on both sides of the coin.

 

When I was the person trying to earn trust back, I learned one thing- it takes as long as it will. No poking and prodding will speed things along, and that is the first thing your ex needs to remember. She needs to work to earn your trust for as long as it takes for you to feel like you can trust her again. Apologizing can only do so much, it's her actions now that count and it doesn't sound like she's really trying that hard for you. I think, deep down, you know it too.

 

So, you should explain this to your ex. Of course, focus on the positives, but talk about the negatives until you don't feel the need to.

 

On the other side of the coin, as the forgiver, there is the risk of the unknown, whether your ex has really changed and won't take you for granted for again. That's the thing here though, she's still taking you for granted with brushing you off in regards to her ex being on Facebook. She's not taking you seriously.

 

If I wanted you back, and found out you saw those old photos or being friends with my ex on facebook etc when in fact I had recent history with him, he'd be gone. If you told me it bothered you, I'd be doing anything to reassure you. It's not him I care about, it's you. Your ex, in order to regain your trust, needs to keep contact with her former partners at minimum. Why? it's what people do in relationships out of respect for their partners, even with children involved.

 

It's completely inappropriate for her kid(s) to dictate her relationship with their father, and definitely NOT an excuse for your ex to use why she's friends with her ex. Again, she's not taking you seriously. That seems to be part of the issue to me, that things have happened, and she's still instigating it while on a crusade to regain your love back.

 

If she stopped ALL of that, no doubt you would have very little issue reuniting with her and working it out with her. Until she does, you should be honest with yourself whether you can trust her completely again. Forgiving and trusting are two very different things, you can forgive her but can you trust her? So you have two choices, go through what I mentioned above with your ex, if you THINK you can eventually trust her again if she did the work. Or end the relationship and move on forward with someone else who you can trust completely. Sorry, it's a tough cookie to eat

 

Her actions 100%, have supported her words, she has changed. I have no issues with that, at all. She is trying, that hard, I see it. She is not poking and proding; I am.

 

 

The ex on FB, she said she did that when they started talking again, when she started to understand him better. She reminded me they spent 7 years living together, him with his kids, her with her daughter, and that "connection" and communication about the kids, will always be there, for the kids. She cares about his kids and wants her daughter to maintain a relationship with them. I am not sure me asking her to unfriend him on FB makes sense really. I understand you point though.

 

We had a long talk on Friday. I asked about the ex. She said yes, it was wrong for her, but not for us as in her eyes we were not comitted, we were not dating (which is true) so she does not see it as morally wrong. She regrets it, for her, states it was a bad choice and she wishes she had not done it. It was a choice she made at the time and she is not going to defend herself over and over for it to me. I get that. She said they were talking, she was trying to tell him what he did that did not work in their relationship, that he was doing in his recently ended relationship, in an effort to help him get that woman back, they got close, it happened. She regrets it, and I do belive that.

 

I talked again about her male best friend, who lives in Chicago, who came into town 2 times while we were dating. She went out with him and mutual friends, they drank, got a cab back to his hotel (all, not just her and him), and stayed the night. She told me this does no feel morally wrong to her because she lived with him for 5+ years (with her daughter) and, it was very common for her to spend the night at his place after a night out. The was never anything sexual or rmanatic about the relationship. She truly sees him as a brother That, when he was in town, it felt just like going back to his house when she went to the hotel he eas staying out.

 

She is offering a compromise for this as she now understands how much it bothered me. Her compromsie is simply, don't do it. She will go home or come over to my place. She said she is comfortable with this, it's not an issue.

 

Saturday evening we met friends out to watch a footbal game at a bar. I did not count her drinks. What I noticed was how slow she drinks now, which she said she is doing now, and I have seen. What I also noticed is she, yes she, wanted to go home around 11:30. In the past, 11:30 was time to party for her, do shots, get crazy. I have not seen this old behavior, at all, since we have been spending time together.

 

She has evovled, a lot. She is drinking way less than she use to. She is no longer smoking as much (she likes to smoke when she has a drink and now she is using the ecigarette), she was never a regular daily smoker.

 

She is working out, taking classes, taking dietary supplements, getting ready to accept a job offer that will double her income (her money or lack there of was an issue in our relationship, not abig one though one I thought about). Her daughter is having problems with one particular subject in school, she is paying for a tutor, and, I know she really does not have the money, but she is sacrificing for her daughter.

 

We had a long talk Friday evening. A lot of who she is made sense to me, and all the change I have seen in her made more sense to me. We talked about moral differences. She, was pretty much tossed all over the place as a child, from parents to relatives to friends to neighbors. She said "At least someone taught you right from wrong, I had to learn on my own!". When she was 13, neighbors pretty much took her in and raised her from then until she graduated high school. She always called them her parents, which I always found odd, but now I get it better. Her mom and dad pretty much abandoned her, literally left her alone when she was 5, 6 ,7+.

 

She has had to put her life back together 3 times, after 3 failed LTRs where she walked away with nothing, on purpose, as, in her mind she was "taking the higher road". It was her money that she left behind. She told me those we bad choices looking back and she is paying the price for it now. She has walked away from family money, a lot of it, enough to take care of her for life. She wants to make it on her own.

 

She acknowledged bad choices she has made over her lkife, that, have put her where she is now. She realizes that at 43 she has grown a lot, learned a lot, yet she is very happy with her progress in the past 2 years, and I see it.

 

She has spent the past 2 years rebuilding her life, becoming more financially secure, taking care of her body/health, focusing even more on her daughter (she has alwasy been a great mom in my opinion) and she actually has new year resolutions, that impressed me.

 

We saw each other again Saturday. Both meetings were nice.

 

I am still not 100% sure. Her heart is there, her comittment is there, she wants an us, and thinks we have what it takes to work. I am felling a little better, closer to her, I am still not 100% sure though.

Edited January 6, 2014 by Babolat

[Babolat]

I think you would both be unhappy in the long run. She would become bitter because she changed for you, and you don't fully trust her. It's up to you to decide what you can accept and what are deal breakers.

 

I talked to her a lot about this on Friday, being bitter or having resentlment. I asked how will she feel 1 year from now when her friends and her are out partying one night, and she wants to stay out, spend the night, etc. She said she wants to compromise, for us, not just for her, and she is, and will be fine with it. She will stop and come home, or come back to my house.

 

I kind of went on and on about it and she said "are you just looking for more reasons why we won't work?". She said "I am compromising on this as I realize how it bothers you, how important is is for you, and over the 8 months we were apart I spent a lot of time thinking about it".

[carhill]

She should change her behaviors for herself, to feel healthier about herself. That's the kind of change that sticks. Any improvement/balance in your relationship would be a mere byproduct.

 

If 'partying' was her behavioral issue, changing for herself would mean aligning with different friends, changing her social routine and becoming more of an 'intimate gathering' or 'homebody' and feel positive about that. She can make those choices for herself.

 

Are those changes in evidence now, without any promises of a relationship with you?

[Babolat]

She should change her behaviors for herself, to feel healthier about herself. That's the kind of change that sticks. Any improvement/balance in your relationship would be a mere byproduct.

 

If 'partying' was her behavioral issue, changing for herself would mean aligning with different friends, changing her social routine and becoming more of an 'intimate gathering' or 'homebody' and feel positive about that. She can make those choices for herself.

 

Are those changes in evidence now, without any promises of a relationship with you?

 

I agree, 100%.

 

This is what she told me over and over while we were apart, that any changes she made, had to be for herself, not for me, not for us. Thus why we did not date, at all, during our 8 monhts apart. She would contact me, we would talk, then she would say "No, I need more time to work on me, for me", which I agreed with.

 

I asked her about the friendships, where those folks tug at her, the ones she grew up partying with. Yes, some of those friendships still exist, they are very important to her. Some no longer do. I asked "what's different" when she spends time with them. She said she is drinking a lot less when with them and she knows her cut off point.

 

I too talked about aligning with new, different, more of a positive influence friends. She agrees, though I have not seen, or heard of these. She said she is comitted to working on new and old friendships, which is one of her new years resolutions.

 

Her daughter has a lot of sleep overs. I have asked her about spending time with a few of the mothers, who sound like more healthy woman. She said she has asked a few about doing things together, and, it's in the works.

 

My best friends wife, very healthy, very grounded, very cool, they are becoming friends. She even suggested Saturday night that the two of them go "do their thing" while the boys "do their thing" watching football.

 

She said her relationships, friends, family, work, are very important to her, and I have alwaysy seen this in her. I do worry, when with these "old friends" how is she behaving. She has been with them since we have been talking, I don't ask, as it feels a bit controlling like "what did you do, how much did you drink" etc.

 

Advice on how to ask, see, or know, appropriately, what these friendships are like now is appreciated.

 

She likes to go to friends houses, or meet at a bar. I think, for me, having dinner out, meeting at someones house for dinner, removing the alcohol or the "alcohol bond", is a better way to socialize. A glass of wine oe two, no issue for me. I "think" this is what she is now doing with her old friends, I don't know though.

 

For example, yesterday, when she went home, all I could think is she got home, felt alone, and headed out to be with a friend, or friends. She disappeared from text for 4 hours, later said she fell asleep. My lack of trust kicked in and thought "sure you did, you probably ened up at Suzys house or at a bar with Suzy", note her daughter is out of townright now, staying with the ex.

 

She does not like to be alone.

 

I don't want to think this way, though I don't know how "to know" unless I am with her or directly ask, which will come across as snooping/untrusting. Makes sense, I hope.

Edited January 6, 2014 by Babolat

[BC1980]

The only way to know is to give it a try. You have to decide at some point, and you are just prolonging it right now. There is nothing she can do to reassure you. It's got to come from you. You've got to either be willing to take a leap of faith or not.

[carhill]

The combination of unwillingness to let the partying friends go *and* inability to be alone would be the choking canaries for myself. That's the result of a lot of life experience and seeing a few people die from such choices.

 

I'd forgive, accept that it wouldn't work out and move on. YMMV.

[Babolat]

The combination of unwillingness to let the partying friends go *and* inability to be alone would be the choking canaries for myself. That's the result of a lot of life experience and seeing a few people die from such choices.

 

I'd forgive, accept that it wouldn't work out and move on. YMMV.

Regarding letting life long friends go, and these are friends from high school, some she even lived with then, is one I don't think I can expect her to do, or ask her to do.

 

Tempering/modifying her behavior/drinking/parting, when with these friends, seems doable to me, and if she is, all is good. I have a few friends who like to party and drink more than I do. When i am with them, I tend to drink too much, for me. I still keep in touch with them, occassionally see them, but I know my limits and boundaries with them.

 

Her fear of being alone comes from childhood. her parents literally would leave her alone, all night, at 3, 4, 5 years old, while they went out. She would leave the TV on all night out of fear. It's a fear too, i think, from being tossed around from family, to friends, to various relatives when she was growing up. And, her friendships are very important to her. She feels the need to be with her friends, not ignore them, she needs that enenergy, those bonds.

Edited January 6, 2014 by Babolat

[Mariposa10]

How old are you two?

[Babolat]

How old are you two?

Me 47, her 43

[happydate]

Reading this thread thus far, why is it that she has to make the changes to please him? Why does she have to make the changes to make the OP happy and reassured? Have you not all considered why the OP isn't making any changes for her? Why is the OP always judging her, doubting her trust and loyalty? Does it also mean that the OP has trust and commitment issues as well. But why isn't he willing to change? It seemed coming from this discussion thread that the changes must all be coming from her.

 

No one can ever please everyone in this world, because we all unique individuals. One must be contend and be happy with themselves before they involve themselves into a relationship. A person who moulds his or her appearances and actions simply to PLEASE or MAKE another person happy so he or she can complete as individual is imcomplete and felt unworthy of self-love.

 

This lady's problem as well as you is simply this. Both of you can't be alone. Both of you need someone to complete each other. The reason she is coming back to you and want you is because, you are the easy person to please and control. She can easily make changes for you, so she wants to get back with you. But you don't have all the qualities of a man in her checklist and that does not complete her, so she stayed with other men and enjoying their company. These men allow these actions to continue because they too felt unworthy of real love. They too felt incomplete about themselves, so they attach themselves to her like leeches. She is smart. She needs several men to complete her check list and infact several workshops for women under the title -- "Manifesting your men" teach them! Don't be a pawn in her game. Sex is key to holding the whole drama together. Without sex, do you think these men will involve themselves in this drama?!?

 

Her problem is hers to fix. It is not her that is the problem. It is with you. You allowed her to control you, to become her pawn because first you can't be alone and second you want to get laid because you felt unappreciated, unworthy of love from some of the other women you dated and met in the past. The fact that you associate yourself with women who dump boyfriends like diapers goes to show that you loath to be in their existence. Just because you are 47 does not make you smarter much like a tennis player who refused to learn and play better. That tennis player will never be a world class Olympic player if he or she's not willing to learn and transcend over his failures. Your failure is that, you are not willing to forgive yourself and your past actions and your past sour relationships with women who did not love you unconditionally. Your past association with women who only love you conditionally is what is making you suffer in this stage.

 

If you want to solve your own problems, heal yourself and meet new people other than the ones you are used to being with. Many of the great women worthy of great relationships pass by because you let your ego run the whole show.

 

You can only change yourself. Don't worry about her. There will be plenty of lonely incomplete men who are willingly become her pawn in her own game. Let her be. She'll find out soon enough that she'll be all lonely and eventually be forced to be painfully alone. And then when she's 60 or 65, be only some young men's cum bucket. Change yourself. The world is full of beautiful women willing to love and care for you without any of this s**t drama!

Edited January 6, 2014 by happydate

[Babolat]

Reading this thread thus far, why is it that she has to make the changes to please him? Why does she have to make the changes to make the OP happy and reassured? Have you not all considered why the OP isn't making any changes for her? Why is the OP always judging her, doubting her trust and loyalty? Does it also mean that the OP has trust and commitment issues as well. But why isn't he willing to change? It seemed coming from this discussion thread that the changes must all be coming from her.

 

No one can ever please everyone in this world, because we all unique individuals. One must be contend and be happy with themselves before they involve themselves into a relationship. A person who moulds his or her appearances and actions simply to PLEASE or MAKE another person happy so he or she can complete as individual is imcomplete and felt unworthy of self-love.

 

This lady's problem as well as you is simply this. Both of you can't be alone. Both of you need someone to complete each other. The reason she is coming back to you and want you is because, you are the easy person to please and control. She can easily make changes for you, so she wants to get back with you. But you don't have all the qualities of a man in her checklist and that does not complete her, so she stayed with other men and enjoying their company. These men allow these actions to continue because they too felt unworthy of real love. They too felt incomplete about themselves, so they attach themselves to her like leeches. She is smart. She needs several men to complete her check list and infact several workshops for women under the title -- "Manifesting your men" teach them! Don't be a pawn in her game. Sex is key to holding the whole drama together. Without sex, do you think these men will involve themselves in this drama?!?

 

Her problem is hers to fix. It is not her that is the problem. It is with you. You allowed her to control you, to become her pawn because first you can't be alone and second you want to get laid because you felt unappreciated, unworthy of love from some of the other women you dated and met in the past. The fact that you associate yourself with women who dump boyfriends like diapers goes to show that you loath to be in their existence. Just because you are 47 does not make you smarter much like a tennis player who refused to learn and play better. That tennis player will never be a world class Olympic player if he or she's not willing to learn and transcend over his failures. Your failure is that, you are not willing to forgive yourself and your past actions and your past sour relationships with women who did not love you unconditionally. Your past association with women who only love you conditionally is what is making you suffer in this stage.

 

If you want to solve your own problems, heal yourself and meet new people other than the ones you are used to being with. Many of the great women worthy of great relationships pass by because you let your ego run the whole show.

 

You can only change yourself. Don't worry about her. There will be plenty of lonely incomplete men who are willingly become her pawn in her own game. Let her be. She'll find out soon enough that she'll be all lonely and eventually be forced to be painfully alone. And then when she's 60 or 65, be only some young men's cum bucket. Change yourself. The world is full of beautiful women willing to love and care for you without any of this s**t drama!

I appreciate your feedback, though, please read the entire post, before you make assumptions.

 

I have never asked her to change for me, and, the changes she has made in her life, were for her, not for me. She was very clear about that, so was I.

And yes, the changes did all come from her. I dumped her because of her actions & behaviors. It was her choice to change, for her, if she wanted to.

 

She has not asked me to make a single change. Should she, and it's something I want to do for me, or for us, I will. In fact, I have told her, the one constant with us is me, I am the same person I was when we met. She likes that. I have told her, with her, there has been so much change, before we met and now, I'm not sure I know who she is or how to predict her future behavior or actions in certain circumstances.

 

Given the "perfect" storm, how will she behave. For example, I heard her tell my best friends wife, while we were out the other night, on NYE she "fell off the wagon" and smoked all night at a party. She said she kept bumming cigarettes off of people. She recently told me she has not smoked in a long time, rather she has been using her eCigarette. Not a deal breaker to mer, but an example of what I am trying to say.

 

And, to your alone comment, I love being alone now. I think that's part of my challenge here. I feel healed, I am happy with myself. And yes, I met a lot of great woman while dating this fall, and, not to be cocky, I have no issues attracting and meeting woman. I think I am a great catch in "my pool" of fish, and I will not settle.

 

Regarding the other men in her past, listening to her stories about those relationships, their way of dealing with it was to try to control her; at least that is my opinion; I will not do that.

 

Great analogy to tennis, as, I am a tennis player.

 

I will share with you though, not knowing your age or relationship status, dating in your mid 40s is A LOT different than it was in my 20s and 30s, a lot.

 

I thought a bit on this comment "Without sex, do you think these men will involve themselves in this drama?!?". The answer is, without sex, well, I would not be attracted to women in the first place. Sex IS part of a relationship, period. Sex is not the only attraction I have for this woman though. In fact, this past weekend, I volunteered we should not be having sex while we figure us out, and, she agreed. Though, we had sex anyways (yes, I pushed, not her) , so back to trying that, again.

 

Thank you for your feedback.

Edited January 7, 2014 by Babolat

[BC1980]

Along the same thread, one thing that has bothered me about her is that she is willing to change herself for you. She says it is for herself, but I am not so sure. I see my past self in her. I was willing to change things about myself for a relationship, but I never asked for it in return. I didn't change the core of my being, but I always felt that I was the one who had to make personal changes. The catch is that my ex never asked me to either. I think I had low self esteem, so I was willing to make changes but accept all of his.

 

An example is that my ex did not like when I wore mascara. I did like wearing it, but I stopped for him. He never once asked me to, but I felt the need to because he liked it that way. It's people pleasing behavior, and that can be dangerous in a relationship to some extent. The mascara is a small example, but a lot of those things added up over time. Another example is where we traveled. I enjoyed a lot of different places, but he would never go with me unless it was a place he wanted to go. Of course, I always went to the places he wanted to go without question.

 

I'm not saying the same thing is going on with your situation, but it feels so much like my previous relationship. The thing is that OP (and my ex) never asked for changes, but I always felt the need for approval. I needed to be validated because my self esteem was low. I wonder if your ex is the same way. Her childhood would definitely suggest that she has issues with abandonment and might strive to please to keep someone.

[Babolat]

I wonder if your ex is the same way. Her childhood would definitely suggest that she has issues with abandonment and might strive to please to keep someone.

 

Great observation and point(s). Yes, she does have low self esteem, so do I. I am much better than I was this time last year, and I continue to improve. And yes, she is a people pleaser; I am too.

 

Interesting you mention make up. I love a natural woman and I am not a fan of make up. She knows this, I have never asked her to change in that way, just shared with her that I think she is beautiful without it. I get that she wears it, for her, she feels better wearing it, and I am ok with that.

 

That's probably part of my concern here; did she change for her, really, for me, or both? So far, in front of me, I see change, and I like it, and it feels like the change was for her.

 

What I don't know is what is she doing, when not with me. I don't ask, probably because it feels like snooping, and, it feels like I am 2nd guessing her. Is she drinking, partying, smoking pot, etc, when with her friends? My guess is yes, but she has cut way back. Has she told these friends, about her change, like she has with me? Will she "fall of the wagon" when with these same friends, the same ones she has always partied with? Should I ask? Should I be concerned?

 

Over the holidays, when we were not talking as much, she spent nights with her gfs, the partying ones I remember from when we dated. Did she party, drink, stay out late....who knows. I question why she has to "run to them" though, during a period of time where I took a pause. She may have spent the night and time with them, and drank as much as she is with me now, which is very little, who knows, but I think about it. Is the change real?

[Babolat]

What I don't know is what is she doing, when not with me. I don't ask, probably because it feels like snooping, and, it feels like I am 2nd guessing her. Is she drinking, partying, smoking pot, etc, when with her friends?

 

An example of this tigger/flashback for me, is smoking. She likes to smoke when she drinks. When she met me for dinner, to talk about trying again, she said she had not smoked in a long time and is using the eCigarette now.

 

Saturday night, while out with friends, I overheard her tell someone "she fell off the wagon" and smoked a lot (cigarettes) on NYE. We did not spend NYE together.

 

I was not going to say anything. Today she texted me about "falling off the wagon" with her diet over Christmas and thinks her current back pain is because of it (not diet as in losing weight as she is thin, diet as in cutting things out of her diet in an effort to get healthier/get rid of aches and pains). I replied "You have falling off the wagon often recently". That turned into me sharing I overheard her comment Saturday night. Her reply was "I did not tell you I quit smoking; rather I had cut back". And she is right. I assumed her comment at dinner meant she has stopped all together.

 

We had another talk on Friday, mostly about morals, differences, etc. We spent some time together over the weekend. I am feeling less anxious, but still having a difficult time believing her change is for real, permanent.

 

We are having dinner with some of my friends she has never met tonight, friends I made after our break up, one of which is my female best friend, who I met about the time I broke up with her. I want them to meet. My female friend was cautious at first. She has only heard the negative about her and said she would be tainted. Realizing that, I told her that she was right, I never talked about the positives, and she agreed, she wants to meet her.

[Mariposa10]

It'd be kind of weirded out if my ex boyfriend (with whom I'm trying to get back together) were to bring his BEST FRIEND, who happens to be a woman. She's become your best friend in a few months?

 

 

An example of this tigger/flashback for me, is smoking. She likes to smoke when she drinks. When she met me for dinner, to talk about trying again, she said she had not smoked in a long time and is using the eCigarette now.

 

Saturday night, while out with friends, I overheard her tell someone "she fell off the wagon" and smoked a lot (cigarettes) on NYE. We did not spend NYE together.

 

I was not going to say anything. Today she texted me about "falling off the wagon" with her diet over Christmas and thinks her current back pain is because of it (not diet as in losing weight as she is thin, diet as in cutting things out of her diet in an effort to get healthier/get rid of aches and pains). I replied "You have falling off the wagon often recently". That turned into me sharing I overheard her comment Saturday night. Her reply was "I did not tell you I quit smoking; rather I had cut back". And she is right. I assumed her comment at dinner meant she has stopped all together.

 

We had another talk on Friday, mostly about morals, differences, etc. We spent some time together over the weekend. I am feeling less anxious, but still having a difficult time believing her change is for real, permanent.

 

We are having dinner with some of my friends she has never met tonight, friends I made after our break up, one of which is my female best friend, who I met about the time I broke up with her. I want them to meet. My female friend was cautious at first. She has only heard the negative about her and said she would be tainted. Realizing that, I told her that she was right, I never talked about the positives, and she agreed, she wants to meet her.

[Babolat]

It'd be kind of weirded out if my ex boyfriend (with whom I'm trying to get back together) were to bring his BEST FRIEND, who happens to be a woman. She's become your best friend in a few months?

 

She use to date one of my acquantances; I never really knew her or talked to her.

 

One month before I broke up with the ex (we broke up March 2013) , we bumped into each other 2 times in two weeks, in a group setting. We shared a common physical/fitness interest, one I wanted to learn, one she did, and she offered to teach me. So, we started hanging out together. Mostly in groups of common friends and the shared fitness activity on the weekends.

 

We got close as she had recently broken up with someone who was similar to my ex. We were both taking a break from dating too. And, I think spending time with her for a month, gave me the strength I needed to break up with my ex.

 

I have never had a female best friend before her. We have a lot of deep talks, we have become close, I talk to her about my ex, past and present, and I have talked to my ex about her. She talks to me about her exes, and guys she goes on dates with now.

 

it was important to me for them to meet. My ex is not the jealous or insecure type, though I wanted her to meet my female friend. My female friend, has heard all of the negative about my ex, so I wanted her to meet her to see the positives.

 

It went well, there was a background Jazz band playing so it was difficult to talk, but it went well. My female best friend and her best female friend were there, who my ex has never met. Also present was one of my male friends and another male friends wife. My ex has met them before.

 

For me, it was important for them to meet. I wanted to see how they got along, plus I don't want to feel like I am hiding either.

[Babolat]

We met a buddy of mine and his gf out this weekend for dinner & drinks. Neither had ever met her.

 

He called me the next day to sing my ex gfs praises, stating what an amazing woman she is, how in tune she is with me, how happy we seem together.

 

Her and I talked more this weekend about her changes and something in my life she had an issue with when we were dating, where, she is watching, and rebuilding trust with to.

 

She shared with me that rebuilding trust to her is like building up a bank account, with "trust" depositis. That it takes time, and you have to rebuild the account up over time.

 

I asked her about her partying friends that she still hangs out with, has she talked to them about her change. She said No. I then asked her what are they saying to her when she is not partying like she use to. She said she still drinks with them, much slower, much less, 2-3 glasses of wine, maybe a shot, compared to a lot more in the past. She said they don't notice, and it allows her to still spend time with them. I have noticed a big change in her in the pace that she drinks. When we dated before she drank fast, now it's a glass of wine an hour or so and she stops at 2 or 3. No, I'm not "counting" per se; but, I do feel if this is real change I would be foolish to not pay attention to some degree.

 

She said while we were dating, and when we were apart, she realized how much alcohol effects her now versus when she was younger; for example slurry speech, etc. That she does not want that anymore and she is much more aware of it, and can stop drinking when she feels that coming on.

 

The slurry speech and wobbly walking is something I saw in her when we dated, and I found very unattractive.

 

I am slowly feeling closer to her, yet, I still think rebuilding the trust and seeing if this change is for real will take time.

Edited January 13, 2014 by Babolat

[BC1980]

You are right, and only time will tell. It is up to the two of you to decide if the time is well spent on trying to rebuild trust.

[Babolat]

Her trust issue with me is never feeling like I was in the relationship when we dated, never feeling I was 100% committed to it. We had 3-4 mini breakups, for a day or two, mostly initiated by me over her drinking.

 

I cancelled on a date with her right before Christmas a few weeks ago (something I have never done) as I was feeling anxious about the date. She said that broke her trust and she is having issues with that, and is willing to work on it. She said though, if I do it again on such short notice, it will be the last time. I get it.

[Eternal Sunshine]

Wow so you still haven't made the decision about getting back together?

[Babolat]

Wow so you still haven't made the decision about getting back together?

We are dating, as in we are exclusive, not seeing other people/dating others, just going very slow.

 

There are still things about her that bug me. At 47 (me), I am starting to wonder if I just need to accept some of the "not so good" when there is so much good. My 46 year old female best friend and I talked about that this weekend. People make bad choices in their pasts; for me/us, it's about present and future choices.

 

Quick example, her and I did not see each other for NYEs or the day after. I had no idea what she did other than go to a party NYE with a gf.

 

I rarely go on her FB page, but she sent me a message on Monday, so I read it, and then looked at her FB page. I see a photo from where she was tagged New Years day, at a bar, with a female friend I have never heard of, and two single men. Both of the single men commented how much fun they had together NYE and new years day. One of the single men I have met briefly twice, and I can tell he would do her in a heartbeat; never even makes eye contact with me (stares at her breasts and comments on how great she looks) and he can't ever remember my name. In fact, the last time we ran into him he said "I should hang out with you the rest of the night, go party, totally ignoring me". She laughed it off. She is strapped for money now, so, my immediate thought is "she is out with a single man, who has an interest in her, and he is probably buying her drinks". Plus the party on NYE, attending with single men (I assume). I want to say something to her, but I don't. I think "leave it alone, don't assume". It's the perception that bugs me. She has told me this is a friend of hers for over 20 years. Still, it's the perception that bugs me. The perception that she is "available" and this man is "with her", he is not respecting our relationship.

 

Another example, Saturday night we went to a great lecture on health then met a buddy and his gf at a restaurant/bar for dinner drinks. She only had two glasses of wine. We get back to my place, it's late, I'm ready for bed, she says "lets do a shot". I said "No', so she proceeds to open a new bottle of wine and drink 1 glass. Not a big deal, but, it brought back reminders of the past.

 

On the good side, I was very sick Monday. Out of nowhere she comes over, fixes me a homeade dinner, takes care of me, etc.

 

And, all of my friends who have met her all say she is 110% into me, that we are great together, they can tell how comitted she is to me. Sometimes I think I let my mind wonder too much, and I obsess over stuff, that may not even be there.

Edited January 15, 2014 by Babolat

[Babolat]

Unfortunately, I am done. Yes, she has decreased her drinking, a lot. Yes she is making compromises, for us.

 

However the deep rooted emotional issues still exist, the irresponsibleness, poor choices, still exist. I tried to talk to her on the phone last night about some of my concerns, she said "You have 15 mins, it's been 20, I don't have time for this". It was like trying to talk to a 5 year old, who was having a temper tantrum, and I had flashbacks of similar conversations with her when she was drunk, when we were dating before. She kept stating "talk then, ask your questions" and. when I did she would cut me off stating "I don't have time for this right now". This, after I asked her to pick a good time for us to talk on the phone, and she did, and I called her then.

 

I was trying to better understand her current relationship with her ex fiance (the man she slept with this summer, while, at the same time having talks with me and sleeping with me), and her daughters relationship with her ex, as, there has been so much change since I met her almost two years ago. From she has no feelings for him, to she hates him to they are now facebook friends again, and hung out a lot together this summer. Weeks ago when I asked her to explain these changes to me she said "we talked a lot and gained a better understanding of what happened at the end of the relationship". When I asked why she slept with 2 men at the same time, especially while she was having talks of getting back together with me then, she said "It's none of your business why". When I asked her, if morally she thought that was OK, she said yes, because her and I were not comitted. That never set well with me.

 

Her daughter now calls him dad, and, has an old family photo of him (looks to be 5+ years old) , her mom and his kids, and her in her room; professional family type photo. I saw this Friday when I was in her daughters room. I wanted to ask about ti, but, it did not feel appropriate. I simply asked her to explain what the relationship is now, and she refused to. She has always told me he does not care about her daughter, that to him her daughter is "just there" when she takes her to visit him. He has never showed any initiative at all in the relationship, he won't even come pick her up, or bring her home (he is 2 hours away), so I wanted to better understand it.

 

She would not address it, got very nasaty with me on the phone, kept telling me she did not have the time to talk, so we ended up hanging up. I have no plans to contact her again, and will not be responding to her contacts. Though it's my guess i will not be hearing from her, either.

 

It really stinks; she is an amzing woman who I do love. I simply think she has emotional childhood wounds that have not healed, addressed (she claims ot have gone thru a lot of counseling, though as she put it she just needed someone to talk to), she is irresponsible and makes a lot of poor choicees (for me that is).

 

Thanks for all the feedback given on this thread, and too many more!

Edited January 21, 2014 by Babolat

[MidwestUSA]

Hey, I'm so sorry to hear that. It's probably for the best, and you can certainly say you gave it every chance. I had a suspicion, after the most recent thread about the daughter, that it would eventually come to this.

 

Onward!

[Babolat]

Hey, I'm so sorry to hear that. It's probably for the best, and you can certainly say you gave it every chance. I had a suspicion, after the most recent thread about the daughter, that it would eventually come to this.

 

Onward!

 

Yeah, the daughter thing this weekend was the 2nd time she did this. Another time, it was 12:30AM, she was at my house with her daughter, who was sick, she got a text from friends to meet out for a drink and she was going to go. I was blown away. Same response then when I said something after biting my tongue for a while: "My daughter is 14, she is fine". and "When I was like you, before I had a child, i would have thought the same".

 

Just feels way too irresponsbile to me. That coupled with partying/getting high in front of her daughter, even though she is in a safe environment, with family or friends at their home, i think it's irresponsible.

 

Ironcially, these are all the same things her parents did to her, that she shared with me at various points in time.

 

She's an amazing mother otherwise, and I can tell she is trying to give her daughter a better life than she had with limited resources (no dad, no money, etc). And, it's her daughter, not mine. I simply see it as irresponsbile, and in the bigger picture of things something I don't want in my life.

 

My thought was "why not invite your friends over to your place" or "why not meet for lunch/dinner the next day" if you want to spend time with them? For her, it's always, a bar, at night, which makes sense, thats how she grew up and it's how she socially bonds.

[KathyM]

I think it's important to understand that some people just do not have what is needed to be in a healthy relationship. Some issues are very deep seeded. Some people have very poor judgement and will continue to make poor choices in the future. Some may be able to improve if there is long-term intervention, such as counseling or treatment for addictions if that is the issue, but many people don't change, or they change but then relapse, or they change in some aspects, but still have issues that are dysfunctional. I'm afraid you saw in her what you wanted to see when you were hopeful that the relationship could work. She has shown in various ways that she is still the broken woman with poor self control, and poor understanding of what it takes to have a healthy relationship. It's good that you now realize that it's not going to work to be in a relationship with her. You may want to get some IC yourself to see why you are attracted to broken women. It may be that by becoming (or trying to become) the rescuer in a relationship, you are trying to work through some problems within yourself. You may want to explore that in counseling.