Affair coming up in arguments

[anne1707]

The BS should "hold on to the pain"? You think that this is some kind of a pleasant thing?

 

Stop trying to put words in my mouth Joe. Thats twice now in one thread and both times, you have been wrong.

[Furious]

Two days in a row, H and I argued about money. Both days, I end up hearing about the affair. The second day he said something so outrageously disgusting. He apologized after, but I see this happening again. What do I do?

 

It seems as though that you have put your betrayal in the past and are offended that your husband is still struggling with it.

 

If you continue to feel this way it's unlikely your "reconciliation" will prosper into something authentic.

 

Why are you surprised that your husband has not been satisfied with the **** sandwich your gave him.

 

Why are you insulted by his reaction to your affair and be appalled that he said something "outrageously disgusting" about an action you chose to commit.

 

Is the action you committed as outrageous as the his verbalization of it in your opinion.

 

It's as though if you've forgiven yourself and your husband is being unreasonable in regard to your belief he should be past it because you are past it.

 

If you truly are remorseful you must accept that his healing process is not up to your time line.

Edited November 27, 2013 by Furious

[Fluttershy]

It seems as though that you have put your betrayal in the past and are offended that your husband is still struggling with it.

 

If you continue to feel this way it's unlikely your "reconciliation" will prosper into something authentic.

 

Why are you surprised that your husband has not been satisfied with the **** sandwich your gave him.

 

Why are you insulted by his reaction to your affair and be appalled that he said something "outrageously disgusting" about an action you chose to commit.

 

Is is the action you committed as outrageous as the his verbalization of it in your opinion.

 

It's as though if you've forgiven yourself and your husband is being unreasonable in regard to your belief he should be past it because you are past it.

 

If you truly ate remorseful you must accept that his healing process is not up to your time line.

 

Furious, your post seems to be a huge projection on the OP. None of those things were even close to what was asked or posted. When people lash out and project on others who are not their wayward spouse it helps no one and doesn't offer an encouragement which is what the OP asked for. No one has to take verbal or physical abuse from anyone else regardless of what they did. She has a very valid reason to be stung by his cruel words that were lashed out at her even if she knows they came from a place of pain inside of him. In fact, I can guarantee that she feels even greater pain because she did screw things up. I am just thankful her husband was man enough to apologize and I think the OP should focus on that. Her husband doesn't feel entitled to treat her like garbage and can own up to it when he does.

[compulsivedancer]

It seems as though that you have put your betrayal in the past and are offended that your husband is still struggling with it.

 

If you continue to feel this way it's unlikely your "reconciliation" will prosper into something authentic.

 

Why are you surprised that your husband has not been satisfied with the **** sandwich your gave him.

 

Why are you insulted by his reaction to your affair and be appalled that he said something "outrageously disgusting" about an action you chose to commit.

 

Is the action you committed as outrageous as the his verbalization of it in your opinion.

 

It's as though if you've forgiven yourself and your husband is being unreasonable in regard to your belief he should be past it because you are past it.

 

If you truly are remorseful you must accept that his healing process is not up to your time line.

 

I don't expect him to be past it. But sometimes we need to figure out things like money, and if we're disagreeing about that, how can bringing up the affair lead to productive conversation? Part of the reason we argued about it two days in a row is because he brought up the affair the first day and effectively ended the conversation, so we ended up in the same argument the second day.

 

I didn't handle it well and need to have some tools for next time. So that we can address the thing we're arguing about, and also address the triggers, too. I'm not complaining about H; I'm asking for help navigating the situation.

[janedoe67]

I do not believe you resent your husband's pain, CD. I do not believe you are angry that his is not "over it" by now. I believe that you desperately want to help him heal, that you want to do everything you can to reconcile, but that since having an affair did not cease to make you human, when someone calls you terrible names, it hurts. Even if they are calling you terrible names because they hurt....it still hurts.

 

What is important is how you respond. I would say that the best way to diffuse affair-as-attack triggers is to be vulnerable. When he says, "well, you should have thought of that before you - insert as graphic a phrase as possible here - you no-good little - insert the most derogatory term imaginable"....

 

You stop. You maybe close your eyes and breathe. If he will let you, you walk toward him and possibly gently take his hand or touch his arm. You look into his eyes and tell him again how so so sorry you are that hurt him, the man you promised your life to, and you mean it. If his words bring tears, let them flow, and tell him how much you want to help him heal, you want to be his sounding board. Then tell him that even though you know you brought it on yourself, hearing those things from him cuts so deeply, you fear you will never be redeemed in his sight. That you will be patient and you are there for him, and to please let you help him.

 

It sound counter-intuitive, walking directly INTO the eye of the storm, but if done with real sincerity and strength, I think it can help diffuse it. There was a night several months after D-Day that I wanted to - no, needed to go to the store because we had a big dinner I was supposed to bring a dish for the next day. H was flitting around and watching TV, but he didn't want me to go out by myself because it was a trigger day. It became tense, he reaised his voice, and I heard a strong of the most foul words I have ever come out of my Baptist husband's mouth before or since, punctuated by throwing an object at the wall to shatter it.

 

I just crumpled inside. But outside, I went across the room and got close to him, told him how sorry I was that I caused him so much pain, told him that he was right, that WAS the kind of woman I was acting like when I had the affair, and told him no matter what he called me I wasn't going to stop trying. Then I asked if I could touch him. He let me. We got through it and went shopping.

 

Some will say that is enabling abuse. If he had hit me, I would have left the room. If it was still happening two years later, I would have insisted we get more help. But it didn't.

 

Hang in there.

[AlwaysGrowing]

It is in those moments that you tell if a couple has authentic R or just going through the motions.

 

It allows the pain to come out, and allows the WS to be the person to help with it.

 

Here is the thing about pain, it freaking hurts, hurts so much that it is difficult to speak its name out loud...kinda like Voldemort..if you say it..you will fall apart and expose yourself too much and the world will end. So it usually comes out as anger. That is true for all of us, doesn't have to be infidelity induced either...pain from anything.

 

By having the person who caused the pain, name it, outloud, it takes the burden off of the hurt one. The WS can then actually carry some of the pain. The WS then feels as though they are actually making amends in a real way. The BS feels that the WS actually cares about the pain. It is bonding, in a very, very deep way. Both parties vulnerable. But safe.

[Realist3]

Furious, your post seems to be a huge projection on the OP. None of those things were even close to what was asked or posted. When people lash out and project on others who are not their wayward spouse it helps no one and doesn't offer an encouragement which is what the OP asked for. No one has to take verbal or physical abuse from anyone else regardless of what they did. She has a very valid reason to be stung by his cruel words that were lashed out at her even if she knows they came from a place of pain inside of him. In fact, I can guarantee that she feels even greater pain because she did screw things up. I am just thankful her husband was man enough to apologize and I think the OP should focus on that. Her husband doesn't feel entitled to treat her like garbage and can own up to it when he does.

 

Yes, that is Furious. Most of this form is about projection in one form or another. If CD is in the right it matters not, she deserves what she gets because she is a WS in many of the BS's minds. They have no understanding of the other side, and zero empathy.

Edited November 27, 2013 by Realist3

[Realist3]

The whole world stops because the BS has to play the victim card, and should be able to play it for as long as they wish. ]

 

Grow some backbone. Stop being the flaky fish.

[Realist3]

How many posts in this thread read something like, "You should understand his anger and comply." Not one concern of the right or wrong of the BS's behavior. Affair or not the world does not revolve around your inability to accept or work through the reality that your spouse cheated on you. No one is blaming you for your hurt feelings, but to act like now that it has been discovered that you own the relationship is complete BS.

 

Yes, I admit my hundreds of courtroom cases jades my opinion, but some of you are just as jaded simply by the fact that you are BS; and the BS can do no wrong. To many people's credit, mainly BS's, they could see the wrong being meted out here on CD.

[AlwaysGrowing]

Of course there is the position that some prefer, like yourself Realist3, it is adversarial. which is the whole position of an affair. Putting your spouse at odds with you. If in all your wisdom you think that maintaining that position is going to work...go try it out.

[Realist3]

Of course there is the position that some prefer, like yourself Realist3, it is adversarial. which is the whole position of an affair. Putting your spouse at odds with you. If in all your wisdom you think that maintaining that position is going to work...go try it out.

 

Work for what? The vast majority of BS's here are divorced. And much of the advice given out by these folks leads to divorce.

[ian1966]

Last night my GF played the Ace, but what I mean is that we had a moderate-level disagreement over money (raised voices, not shouting) that escalated and suddenly switched to "why don't you go and f*ck your whore" - completely out of context. Unfortunately she then attacked me physically in a rage for about 5 minutes as I held her wrists to prevent her striking me. I did not in any way retaliate, and pleaded the whole time for her to calm down. It only ended by way of physical exhaustion (for both of us). I ended up with deep scratches and a few bruises on my shoulders and chest. She is OK, a little bruised around the wrist from being restrained.

 

An hour later and she is back to ground zero (normal) as if nothing happened, but I am a blubbering mess in great emotional pain trying to process what the f*ck just happened.

She gets over this quickly, obviously... but I don't.

Still I love her very much and tolerate such.... but it isn't easy.

Sorry for the rant... venting.

Edited November 28, 2013 by ian1966

[Furious]

I don't expect him to be past it. But sometimes we need to figure out things like money, and if we're disagreeing about that, how can bringing up the affair lead to productive conversation? Part of the reason we argued about it two days in a row is because he brought up the affair the first day and effectively ended the conversation, so we ended up in the same argument the second day.

 

I didn't handle it well and need to have some tools for next time. So that we can address the thing we're arguing about, and also address the triggers, too. I'm not complaining about H; I'm asking for help navigating the situation.

 

 

Exactly, my point was that the best tool for true reconciliation is accepting that your husband has his own time line in regard to the anguish he feels. It's obvious he is holding in his emotions in and it comes out in disagreements over things that are not directly involved with your affair.

 

I believe you believed your husband is on the same time frame of reconciliation and you're seeing now that it isn't so.

 

I believe you're experiencing a set back in your reconciliation and it's alarming you and has you worried and upset.

 

Reconciliation is two steps forward and sometimes one step back. This is a wake up call to the delicate and difficult road ahead.

 

Reconciliation is not a straight line and it takes two to navigate it.

 

I truly believe you're sincere in your effort to rebuild your marriage.

[compulsivedancer]

Ian, it sounds like there are bigger issues here. If you did that to her, she'd have you arrested. Definitely need to address this in counseling. You can't let physical abuse go unchecked, regardless of gender.

[compulsivedancer]

Exactly, my point was that the best tool for true reconciliation is accepting that your husband has his own time line in regard to the anguish he feels. It's obvious he is holding in his emotions in and it comes out in disagreements over things that are not directly involved with your affair.

 

I believe you believed your husband is on the same time frame of reconciliation and you're seeing now that it isn't so.

 

I believe you're experiencing a set back in your reconciliation and it's alarming you and has you worried and upset.

 

Reconciliation is two steps forward and sometimes one step back. This is a wake up call to the delicate and difficult road ahead.

 

Reconciliation is not a straight line and it takes two to navigate it.

 

I truly believe you're sincere in your effort to rebuild your marriage.

I know he's still working things through, and there's still a lot of anger. He doesn't talk to me as much about it, because he doesn't think he should keep rehashing it. Sometimes I'm at a loss for the best way to help.

 

I've never been very good at comforting people (this is definitely a FOO issue, as my whole family has some social/emotional connection issues). I'm better than I used to be, but I'm not always sure if I'm cutting it.

 

We're still making progress, but sometimes I feel completely useless.

[atreides]

hey CD,

my take when reading your H's posts a while back was that he is still working through a lot and is riding the fence some days, it's not going to be easy. nothing you already don't know.

 

That said:

The biggest thing i would take from this all is that he is still there, still choosing to be with you whether it comes with the good or bad days.

 

As with any argument even if an A had never happened don't we all always at times irrationally for the context of the argument drudge up anything to lash out or spite?

 

I think you see this as an irregular pattern in behavior of R between you two and so asking why? I would simply say there is nothing regular or should be put into a mold. You may very well have a great year for example and then the following year one of the worst days of your life.

 

As for the abuse comments from others, your H does not come off as wanting to be punitive with you, so i do not see his outbursts as abusive.

 

So I will simply restate what i said above, he is still there and choosing to be with you, I would remember that and perhaps respond differently next time, no matter how ugly his words might be.

[Furious]

I know he's still working things through, and there's still a lot of anger. He doesn't talk to me as much about it, because he doesn't think he should keep rehashing it. Sometimes I'm at a loss for the best way to help.

 

I've never been very good at comforting people (this is definitely a FOO issue, as my whole family has some social/emotional connection issues). I'm better than I used to be, but I'm not always sure if I'm cutting it.

 

We're still making progress, but sometimes I feel completely useless.

 

You're working through it and it shows you care.

 

As long as you both are working toward the same goals you are going in the right direction.

 

Hugs

[Journee]

I would agree with this, from a BS' standpoint as well. There's a fear of it being "too good to be true". As things appear to get better and you get closer, you question how it's possible to get to this point in the R after this traumatic thing happening, and put your guard up, get defensive. There are times he may start to wonder if it's real, because he doesn't want to feel like a bigger fool if it isn't. It's really hard to just open yourself up again and give the love you want to give.

 

 

 

I haven't finished the thread but made it here and just had to quote. This is spot on for how I operate. My fear manifests as anger. Scared to give the love I want to because I'm afraid of a big let down.

 

I know that my method of healing is not on everyone's menu. I have prayed and given my pain over to GOD. H and I both are Christians and prayer is at the forefront of our R and communication. I realize this is not for everyone but it is what has calmed me immensely. Not even just about my H. About lots of hurts in my life.

 

I am going in full speed ahead just over a year out. If anyone cares to recall I was stuck in a state of anger and resentment that I knew could not be sustained. It was killing me as much as it was my H. I don't want to hurt him anymore. I believe he doesn't want to hurt me. We will see. All anyone can do is hold on and hope.

 

CD, if your H is anything like me then he is just feeling tinges of fear and uncertainty. He wants to let go and just breathe you all in but is leery. I imagine he feels guilt about saying hurtful things to you because he loves you. More than he likely wants to at certain moments.

 

My H would never tell me that I have hurt him with my words. He would never show it. I know though. I know that my bringing up things in anger embarrasses him. I take not pleasure in humiliating him. He has never used my crappy behavior as a justification for his choices. In many ways he is a bigger person than I am.

 

I think you two will be alright. A's hit sooo many marriages it is staggering. You are not alone in this and neither is your H. Unfortunately there isn't a one size fits all answer IMO. Just love him. Don't accept verbal or emotional abuse or blackmail. If you know that these outbursts are not like him then I think it's just the hurt talking.

 

If you would have told me I would be dancing around the kitchen preparing some deserts and salads for Thanksgiving this year...and then be excited about allthe cooking to do in the morning ....for my intact family. I might had given you a sarcastic remark as a reply. I'm happier than I have been in years. I am myself again. I think your BH can get there too

 

I don't know what to tell you to do other than to love him.

Edited November 28, 2013 by Journee

[BeholdtheMan]

It is healthy that the anger is "let out" for the long term happiness of all involved. The issue is how it is let out and if it continues to be there for years to come.

Yes but venting anger a year or two or three after DDay is a necessary part of the healing process

 

We don't know if 10 years from now (in the event the two are still married), OP's husband will bring up the affair when OP wants to eat Mexican and OP's husband wants Italian. What we do know is that right now, OP's husband is venting his anger...and that's perfectly natural

 

I can't see how that would be acceptable or even remotely healthy. It is never healthy to live in anger for a year or two.

 

The best suggestion mentioned so far was, "Do you want to talk about the affair or money?" A kinder way of what I was trying to say. He can deflect if he wants, but there is no justification to conflate the issues.

Do you think her husband's anger is a choice or that it's rational? Intense anger (of the variety one experiences after finding out wifey has been having hot anal with another dude) is highly irrational and unreasonable. This is the price OP must pay for her sordid affair.

 

I find it amazing that some people think the cheating spouse is entitled to no irrational outbursts of rage from the betrayed spouse. Uh...you cheated. You created this anger. Now you have to deal with it. The betrayed should try to work through his/her anger but in case you haven't guessed...it's fu**ing difficult. You betrayed your spouse's trust and humiliated him. Now it's time to be sympathetic rather than demanding, "don't randomly bring up the affair" "you're just using it as an ace card" "don't make me feel guilty". If a cheating spouse has this attitude, he/she might as well divorce

 

I don't expect him to be past it. But sometimes we need to figure out things like money, and if we're disagreeing about that, how can bringing up the affair lead to productive conversation?

It's not productive but you're approaching this from the wrong angle.

 

You're asking "why can't he control his anger, why can't he handle these issues more productively?"

 

May I ask you "why couldn't you avoid sex with the other man?" You caused his anger. If you want to save the marriage, you'll have to deal with it...or divorce. No one is forcing you to stay. You signed up for an angry betrayed spouse when you banged the other man. Could you at least try to put yourself in your husband's shoes. How angry would you be if you were a faithful wife and your husband engaged in anal sex with another woman? You'd have a lot of uncontrollable anger too, trust me

Edited November 28, 2013 by BeholdtheMan

[waterwoman]

I will confess to this at times. Not so much now. Thing is the affair is the biggest hurt anyone has ever inflicted on me, maybe that makes me lucky. I can't forget it no matter how much I want to. We hardly talk about it now but when we argue I can feel all that pain bubbling up inside me and if I am not careful it pours out of my mouth. I have to actually close my mouth and walk away but if I do that h comes after me and demands I tell him what's wrong. If I say nothing he gets cross. So I tell him:(. What I need is for him just to hold me and make me feel safe but as he says he doesn't much feel like comforting a fire-breathing dragon:D. It's not an ace card, it's not a ploy, if it was it would be a fairly useless one as it doesn't win any arguments. It's just the residue of pain, it will reduce year on year, mine already has.

 

Try to be patient with him CD. It will pass x

[JustJoe]

Stop trying to put words in my mouth Joe. Thats twice now in one thread and both times, you have been wrong.

Did you or did you not say those things? I completely disagree with your advice and think it would do more harm than good for CD to begin to try to manipulate her husband , in any way. The road to reconciliation begins and ends with the BS's willingness to do so. IC, MC, forgiveness and anger issues will and should be at her husband's pace and that is also another of the results of her cheating. CD, let your husband dictate the pace of reconciliation or not. Anything that you do or suggest will automatically be suspect, and more than likely will be rejected, until he has had all the time he needs to recover from the shock, anger and dismay your affair caused. Patience, love, understanding, and remorse will get you much farther than any attempts to force the pace, by you. Those who suggest doing so are not your best source of advice.

[anne1707]

Did you or did you not say those things? I completely disagree with your advice and think it would do more harm than good for CD to begin to try to manipulate her husband , in any way. The road to reconciliation begins and ends with the BS's willingness to do so. IC, MC, forgiveness and anger issues will and should be at her husband's pace and that is also another of the results of her cheating. CD, let your husband dictate the pace of reconciliation or not. Anything that you do or suggest will automatically be suspect, and more than likely will be rejected, until he has had all the time he needs to recover from the shock, anger and dismay your affair caused. Patience, love, understanding, and remorse will get you much farther than any attempts to force the pace, by you. Those who suggest doing so are not your best source of advice.

 

 

No I did not say those things.

 

I have said his anger is understandable.

 

I have said that CD should try not to react to his anger when this happens

 

I have said that if it continues long term, it is not healthy for him or CD. I doubt anyone would disagree that being angry for years is a good thing.

 

I have said IC and MC should be considered if need be. But after they have talked together on this - i.e. they both agree to do counselling.

 

 

 

 

I get it Joe. You don't like me (I have not got a clue why though - some posters I understand because they are/were a BS, but you?? I just don't get it). Just put me on ignore if I irritate you so much.

[lilmisscantbewrong]

I would just like to say this type of flare up can happen even years later. Just last night we were at a local club we joined last year and the conversation somehow migrated from biology to evolution and then of course it went to the church (she says factiously). One of the men there new of my situation and was talking about the new pastor and then brought up one old the old ones and why he left (one of the ones that made the decision to have our names read).

 

I could feel anger boiling up in me because this man was relaying something about this pastor that was spoken from the pulpit that was not true ( and this man knew it was not true and so did the congregation) and no one spoke up. My husband could tell I was getting frustrated and angry and it was taking me back to a point in time I have such a hard time reconciling anyway. I calmly brought up my point of view in regards to the pastor and then the conversation was redirected and we were fine.

 

Later at home, the rescue dog had pooped on the carpet and our daughter was downstairs playing games and didn't let him out. My husband started yelling about it and all of a sudden it was MY dog that had done the damage. It honestly had nothing to do with the dog at all - it was how close that previous conversation almost went to the affair and the time period around it. But nonetheless the anger surfaced.

 

This morning he and I talked about it and he said "I know you are still healing but the club is a place where most people don't know the history and those that do don't care. For me, bringing it back up doesn't help my healing it opens wounds that are already closed again". He just felt like it doesn't do any good to discuss it all. The club is a safe place because we are meeting new people who love us for who we are, most have no knowledge of our situation and those that do are not judging but accepting.

 

This is honestly a secret fear of mine. That he has buried all of these emotions deep and that one day they will explode in a big way - we have had two instances in the past couple of weeks where the argument seems to have had an "affair" overtone to it.

 

Anyway - I am learning to just walk away and let it all sit. Generally the waves of anger blow over and then it's easier to come to a mutual agreement later.

 

Tough waters to navigate

Edited November 28, 2013 by lilmisscantbewrong

[janedoe67]

A year out, this is normal, whether it is ideal or not. After more time passes, the question will become this:

 

Does the fact that it is understandable make it RIGHT to scream obscenities at one's spouse, even if they did cheat?

 

Is it abuse then? What about four years down the road? That is the tough part.

 

It is - to some people (not me so don't go there) - "understandable" for someone who has been ignored, neglected, and rejected for years to seek comfort elsewhere. That doesn't make it right...at all.

 

So again the question becomes:

 

Does someone else's bad action make any bad action I might excuse in myself good? Does personal responsibility extend to everyone, or just the cheater?

 

I have yet to see a years later angry person ever be able to answer that question objectively, and that makes me sad....for them and the spouse they are still punishing.

 

I have more respect for those who are still angry with an EX spouse.

[aliveagain]

Forgiveness is earned and should never be expected, some are only forgiven years after they have divorced. Maybe I am wrong but don't the cheating spouse's consider worst case scenario's as part of their decision process? By stepping over the line are they not terminating their contract with their spouse? In business a breach of contract is as bad as it gets, this is where lawyers really make their money.

 

Just as you took everything that was his exclusively(this was what you vowed to him in front of family and witness's/friends, maybe even in a house of God) than you breached your bond by freely giving that away to a mutual friend, not once but repeatedly thus shaming him in front of the same family, witness's/friends and perhaps causing him conflict with his God. Add to that your comment about enjoying anal sex with other man but don't feel you have to make it available to your husband who is still struggling with the shame and humiliation "Your" actions have brought into his life.(blows my mind how you can say anything good about O/M when trying to repair your relationship with your husband)

 

The part you are missing is that with all these conflicts and outside influence's(friends or family, business associates telling him to leave you) he is still there, he still feels love for you even after the sh*t sandwich you served him. I think his getting angry this early in reconciliation is a very small price to pay for the gift he has given you, just my opinion.