Sister is OW and getting into a huge mess. What can I do?

[concernedsis]

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

 

I will not contact the wife. It's not my place. I might, however, consider suggesting my sister to think about her suggesting, at the appropriate time, a trilateral meeting -- sister, man, and wife -- where they discuss the upcoming child custody and child care arrangements for the two younger kids and the baby. After all, is the man is being truthful to his wife, he should tell her about his relationship with my sister as well as the baby that will come around the time the divorce takes place. Why would he object?

 

But I might end up not suggesting it, anyway.

 

In any event, I have another question. It looks like, since the time the pregnancy was announced, the man (who reportedly is happy about it) has been spending much less time with my sister. It looks like he has spend almost all of the past week at his family home at night -- first time in months. I don't know how to interpret it. I have two possible interpretations:

A) he realizes (finally) the enormity of the pregnancy issue, and has perhaps decided to spend more time with his kids to prepare them for the news of the impending divorce. Or

B) he is beginning to get cold feet and , consciously or not, creating a little bit of distance from my sister.

 

I do want to think is A). After all, he might end up being my brother in law, and I want to think he is not an ass. Am I over-interpreting this?

[lilmisscantbewrong]

I am so sorry children are treated that way - no child should ever be treated badly no matter what their heritage. Completely unevolved. This is all a result of adults acting poorly, but no matter what the children should never suffer.

 

However this is a completely different debate. Sorry for the t/j.

[ThatsJustHowIRoll]

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

 

I will not contact the wife. It's not my place. I might, however, consider suggesting my sister to think about her suggesting, at the appropriate time, a trilateral meeting -- sister, man, and wife -- where they discuss the upcoming child custody and child care arrangements for the two younger kids and the baby. After all, is the man is being truthful to his wife, he should tell her about his relationship with my sister as well as the baby that will come around the time the divorce takes place. Why would he object? Because he is lying

 

But I might end up not suggesting it, anyway.

 

In any event, I have another question. It looks like, since the time the pregnancy was announced, the man (who reportedly is happy about it) has been spending much less time with my sister. It looks like he has spend almost all of the past week at his family home at night -- first time in months. I don't know how to interpret it. I have two possible interpretations:

A) he realizes (finally) the enormity of the pregnancy issue, and has perhaps decided to spend more time with his kids to prepare them for the news of the impending divorce. Or

B) he is beginning to get cold feet and , consciously or not, creating a little bit of distance from my sister.

 

I do want to think is A). After all, he might end up being my brother in law, and I want to think he is not an ass. Am I over-interpreting this?

 

Im guessing B. He is trying to retreat slowly so he doesnt anger your sister to the point she send his house of cards crumbling. And I think your sister might just get thrown under the bus if exposure does happen. After 3 months he wont feel any loyalty towards her. But Im only speculating

Edited December 3, 2013 by ThatsJustHowIRoll

[AlwaysGrowing]

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

 

I will not contact the wife. It's not my place. I might, however, consider suggesting my sister to think about her suggesting, at the appropriate time, a trilateral meeting -- sister, man, and wife -- where they discuss the upcoming child custody and child care arrangements for the two younger kids and the baby. After all, is the man is being truthful to his wife, he should tell her about his relationship with my sister as well as the baby that will come around the time the divorce takes place. Why would he object?

 

But I might end up not suggesting it, anyway.

 

In any event, I have another question. It looks like, since the time the pregnancy was announced, the man (who reportedly is happy about it) has been spending much less time with my sister. It looks like he has spend almost all of the past week at his family home at night -- first time in months. I don't know how to interpret it. I have two possible interpretations:

A) he realizes (finally) the enormity of the pregnancy issue, and has perhaps decided to spend more time with his kids to prepare them for the news of the impending divorce. Or

B) he is beginning to get cold feet and , consciously or not, creating a little bit of distance from my sister.

 

I do want to think is A). After all, he might end up being my brother in law, and I want to think he is not an ass. Am I over-interpreting this?

 

This time of year most are busy with holiday preparations, children events, work events...etc.

 

The MMs age..almost 50..having a child at that age...puts a different spin on retirement. Unless he has a great retirement package..he might now be realizing he will be working years past what he initially thought. That realization could be quite sobering.

[concernedsis]

Im guessing B. He is trying to retreat slowly so he doesnt anger your sister to the point she send his house of cards crumbling. And I think your sister might just get thrown under the bus if exposure does happen. After 3 months he wont feel any loyalty towards her. But Im only speculating

 

But this is what doesn't make sense to me. I obviously have serious reservations about this guy's integrity. However, to me, the fact that he reacted with joy and happiness to the pregnancy news, and claims to be trying to expedite the divorce, tells me that he is indeed planning to divorce and marry my sister. How would someone who is planning to run away be delighted about the pregnancy news? Am I being naive?

[HopingAgain]

But this is what doesn't make sense to me. I obviously have serious reservations about this guy's integrity. However, to me, the fact that he reacted with joy and happiness to the pregnancy news, and claims to be trying to expedite the divorce, tells me that he is indeed planning to divorce and marry my sister. How would someone who is planning to run away be delighted about the pregnancy news? Am I being naive?

 

Yes, you are being somewhat naive. If you can find them, there are several stories here goingback years of MM getting OW pregnant and bailing on her long before the baby is born. Most of them are still married to this day and in some cases thre wife stiull doesnt even know the OW ever existed, let alone the baby. The reality is your sis will probably wind up being a single mom doing this alone. Help her to prepare for that probability.

[threelaurels]

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

 

I will not contact the wife. It's not my place. I might, however, consider suggesting my sister to think about her suggesting, at the appropriate time, a trilateral meeting -- sister, man, and wife -- where they discuss the upcoming child custody and child care arrangements for the two younger kids and the baby. After all, is the man is being truthful to his wife, he should tell her about his relationship with my sister as well as the baby that will come around the time the divorce takes place. Why would he object?

 

If you would like additional verification, you can look into how your area handles divorce records. Divorce proceedings are usually a matter of public record. In many places, they won't let you view the files unless you are the husband or wife involved. However, you should be able to find out whether or not a divorce filing for the couple in question exists.

[Iguanna]

I think you should convince your sister to call his wife and arrange a meeting where they will talk about the current situation.Explain the whole story, how he claimed he is gonna divorce in one year from now, how he got happy with the pregnancy and is trying to speed things with divorce up, ask her how they will handle the situation. This is her right if the MM hesitates and just lets time pass.

[ClemsonTigers]

But this is what doesn't make sense to me. I obviously have serious reservations about this guy's integrity. However, to me, the fact that he reacted with joy and happiness to the pregnancy news, and claims to be trying to expedite the divorce, tells me that he is indeed planning to divorce and marry my sister. How would someone who is planning to run away be delighted about the pregnancy news? Am I being naive?

 

 

When it comes to cheating, you have to watch closely what people do and disregard what they say. His behavior will give him away.

 

Going to the local courthouse to confirm the divorce is pending (and when it was filed) is a good idea.

 

Asking your sister to have the conversation with the MM and his wife is stretching it a bit as the MM will lie and delay any such meeting and your sister won't risk upsetting her soulmate. You see, they are living in a fantasy bubble. When you ask tough questions you crack that bubble and they don't want to face ANY realities. This is why your sister hangs up on you, avoids your calls and distances herself from loved ones. She's isolating herself into her delusion. This is dangerous because, as we've revealed to you, MM just don't often leave their wives and families (especially 4 kids). IF MM actually filed the divorce before getting involved with your sister, then the whole situation is plausible….divorcing man…meets younger girl….falls in love and the story continues so confirming their is a divorce in process is a good call.

 

Another idea might be instead of asking your sister to talk to MM and his wife on her own, ask your sister to invite you to dinner so you can meet the MM. ACT supportive and excited for her. Do not give a hint that you want to confront MM at all or she won't let you anywhere near him. Then when you are all together YOU can ask the hard questions:

 

"Let me get this straight, I just want to know, when did you actually file for divorce from your wife?….in what court?…what's your attorney's name and can we call him on speaker phone right now so I can put my suspicions to rest because I WANT to believe my sister but I've heard horror stories as you can imagine."

 

"Is your wife aware you and [my sis] are expecting a child"

 

ETC

 

IF MM is legit…he should want to ally his future sister in law's fears. Again, watch his behavior MORE than his words.

 

Your sister is too afraid and has too much at risk to ask tough questions and confront this situation head on. MM will just put her off with the most common excuses like..

 

1. "my wife can't know until he divorce is final because that will effect our

property division, child support, visitation, who gets the dog, etc."

 

2. "I'll tell them after the holidays" (which holiday, Christmas, New Years, Valentines Day, Easter????)

 

3. "This is my personal life, you don't know my soon to be ex wife…she's controlling and manipulative, she'll hurt you and/or me if she finds out…let's just let the divorce play out first and not let HER ruin our special relationship"

 

4. "Oh, kibbles and bits….the divorce was delayed another 3, 6…9 months"

 

5. "I don't want my other kids to think less of me and dislike their new half-sibling so it's better if we wait, and wait and wait…to tell anyone"

 

6. "I can't get away to make it to the delivery as it's my wife's mother's 90th birthday party…take pictures, bygones…just a few more weeks, months, years and we can be together"

 

7. "Can we arrange for me to pay support secretly instead of through the courts and don't put my name on the birth certificate….I talked to my lawyer and he gave me these documents so we can keep this on the down low"

 

7. "I've got bad news, I've got another girlfriend that I'm in complete love with….SHE is my soulmate now. I didn't mean for it to happen, love JUST happens sometimes. I can't help who I fall in love with"

 

 

Bottom line…you are in a position to help your sister get the truth. She is not thinking clearly right now. She has way to much to lose for her to risk pushing this situation and MM's take advantage of that to the fullest extent to conflict avoid until the bitter bitter end. You CAN hasten this situation to a resolution good or bad versus it being dragged out. Getting the truth won't change the outcome so you aren't interfering at all. The truth is what it is, isn't it?

 

 

Based upon what you've told us, I put the odds at 85% chance he's a fully married phony manipulative adulterer that has no real intention of leaving his wife (if she'll have him after she finds out about the baby) and/or no intention of marrying your sister. Your sister wasn't supposed to get pregnant she was just his sexual partner on the side so even if he ends up divorcing his wife he won't marry your sister as he'll be single and free to date whomever he wants. Or he'll marry her AND then continue to date whomever he wants ….on the side.

[turnera]

T I have two possible interpretations:

A) he realizes (finally) the enormity of the pregnancy issue, and has perhaps decided to spend more time with his kids to prepare them for the news of the impending divorce. Or B) he is beginning to get cold feet and , consciously or not, creating a little bit of distance from my sister.

Or C) he is like MOST married men having an affair and he's lied his ass off to your sister and he has no intentions of ever leaving his wife. Get ready for the backtracking.

[turnera]

How would someone who is planning to run away be delighted about the pregnancy news? Am I being naive?

 

What makes you think he's been telling her the truth? You said she was naive. Shouldn't be too hard to make her believe his blather.

[concernedsis]

What makes you think he's been telling her the truth? You said she was naive. Shouldn't be too hard to make her believe his blather.

 

Thanks. As people said, his actions speak louder than his words. And there is a set of actions that leads me to think that his claim to be in the process of divorcing (even if still in a preliminary stage) is believable. Ironically, it's something that I criticized earlier -- namely, the fact that he is spending so much time with my sister.

 

In the past couple of months, he has spent most evenings, including quite a few overnight stays, with her. They also spent the Memorial Day weekend together out of town. And he even proposed her to go to the Bahamas over the Christmas break (which, to my surprise, she declined, as she wants to spend it with her family, particularly after the pregnancy news, which has caused concern to me and our parents). I think all these actions suggest he is an uninvolved, bad father -- what kind of guy leaves his kids for Christmas break when they are going to get the terrible news their parents are divorcing soon? *However*, this is too much time away from the family for his wife not to be on the loop that they are divorcing (or perhaps that he already has a girlfriend). To me, it is not plausible for a wife who believes his husband is faithful and the marriage in good shape to accept the man's absence so many nights, a long weekend, and even Xmas break. The only logical explanation for his ability to be absent so often is that he and his wife are indeed in the process of separation. Is my logic flawed?

 

So, I do find it believable that he is indeed separating/divorcing. Plus, he has mentioned so many things in detail -- the wife's request for financial contribution for her retirement, how they are going to sell their home, his conversations with his lawyer, etc. I think there are then two possible explanations.

A) he is an emotionally damaged guy who is infatuated (note that I am not saying "in love") with my sister after so many years of emotional void, and making exceedingly poor actions and choices along the way, or

B) he is a psychopath and a pathological liar, who is able to lie to his unsuspecting wife and be away from home so often to live his affair in a way that I cannot logically understand. What kind of unsuspecting wife would accept that?

 

From what I described above, I think it's A) -- which doesn't exclude the possibility that he backs away and ends up not marrying my sister, but out of fear, not out of a long-planned evil machination. Again, is my logic flawed?

Edited December 4, 2013 by concernedsis

[unicorn farts]

We can speculate all we like but what we KNOW is this:

 

He's married.

He doesn't spend much time with the kids he already has.

He hasn't told his wife about your sister or the baby.

 

So far, he hasn't made any verified moves towards changing any of these three situations. Until he does, you should prepare for an unpleasant end to your sister's affair.

[ClemsonTigers]

Again, is my logic flawed?

 

No, your logic is NOT flawed; however, the lies of betrayal are extremely difficult to nail down. Getting the truth can be like trying to nail jello.

 

I'll say this…why do you need to be guessing?

 

The truth is what it is.

 

If he's on the up and up he won't mind his future sister in law and the aunt to his future child asking a couple discerning questions. His reaction to your questions will be very telling. A liar may take offense, deflect, or over explain and offer you every VERBAL assurance they can but watch his body language and you'll have your answer. He should be putting you at ease instead of making you feel uncomfortable for asking such questions. If he offers proof (like let's call my wife or my attorney right here on speaker phone), take him up on the offer…a liar won't expect you to follow through.

 

Doing it face to face will give you a much better way to gauge the situation, so offer to take them both out to dinner to congratulate them or something and so you can meet the lucky guy yourself.

 

I hope it turns out well…for all.

[Iguanna]

Other than the guesses we all make, what are things like at the moment? Has he talked to his wife yet? Will he do it soon? What is the plan, from his part?

[concernedsis]

Thanks. The plan of having dinner with my sister and the man to ask him questions seems like a good idea. However, I don't live in the same city as my sister, so this plan is unfeasible.

 

I haven't talked to my sister in recent days. (My mother, who lives in the same city and, while as mortified as I am, is acting a bit more "understanding" as to not alienate her further, has been serving as my source of information this week -- she is the one who told me the guy has been absent since the pregnancy news). But we have exchanged nice, short text messages, and I think things are "thawing" between us, so I hope to talk to her soon. As to whether he has told his wife about my sister or the baby, I don't know. I highly doubt he has told her about the baby. The only new piece of info I have is that my sister has begun to look into prenatal care -- but the guy is not getting involved in that search.

[ThatsJustHowIRoll]

Thanks. The plan of having dinner with my sister and the man to ask him questions seems like a good idea. However, I don't live in the same city as my sister, so this plan is unfeasible.

 

I haven't talked to my sister in recent days. (My mother, who lives in the same city and, while as mortified as I am, is acting a bit more "understanding" as to not alienate her further, has been serving as my source of information this week -- she is the one who told me the guy has been absent since the pregnancy news). But we have exchanged nice, short text messages, and I think things are "thawing" between us, so I hope to talk to her soon. As to whether he has told his wife about my sister or the baby, I don't know. I highly doubt he has told her about the baby. The only new piece of info I have is that my sister has begun to look into prenatal care -- but the guy is not getting involved in that search.

 

This is not good news for your sister. It sounds like he is withdrawing...and fast. She just might find herself saddled with a baby on her own as he disappears into the ether. He has the benefit of experience to help her with planning or a baby - but where is he???

 

He might be getting divorced, but that doesn't guarantee he's going to ride of into the sunset with your sister and her baby either. Hmmm. Far too many unknown variables. Good luck.

[knitwit]

ConcernedSis- does your sister's guy have a traveling job? This is one easy way for him to spend lots of time with your sister while keeping his wife in the dark.

 

My DH, long before we got together, once was an unwitting OM. For the first few months while he was dating his then GF, he often stayed over at her house. One morning, while he was in the kitchen making breakfast, a man walked into the house. He demanded to know who my DH was. DH said [GF's] boyfriend- who are you? It turns out that the man was his GF's HUSBAND. The husband was a trucker who was often on the road and he returned early. My DH had NO idea.

 

BTW, once she tracked him down, the GF told my DH that she was in the process of getting a divorce but she originally tell him b/c she didn't want to scare him off. She moved out and filed, and once he saw the paperwork, my DH went back to her. They got eventually got married. He's my DH now, so you can see it didn't work out well for them. (Yes, she cheated on him.)

 

So anything can happen.

 

For your sister- just try to be there for her. No matter what, even if her guy is going to divorce (and I agree that is is unlikely), she is in for a rough road. She will need your support. You can let her know that you don't agree with everything she is doing, but you love her.

[spiderowl]

It sounds like your sister is rather inexperienced and very naive and believes he loves her and that 'love conquers all'. Sadly, this is a very complex situation and it's probably not going to turn out how she hopes.

 

You've already told her what you think of the situation and, given the above, it's unlikely to make any difference. All you can do is to be there and pick her up after the train wreck. It might not happen of course, but oh dear!

[concernedsis]

Thanks for the replies. I haven't talked to my sister in days. It seems like she is avoiding talking much about the matter to me as well as my parents. She pretends there is no problem and doesn't seem to care to reassure us that everything is ok (at least in her mind). She is talking some distance from me, presumably because she thinks I am not fully approving the whole thing. She refuse to hear any criticism or mention of any potential downside. I understand she is entitled to do so.

 

Talking to my mother (who lives in the same city and has talked to her at greater length and detail about the matter) it looks like the guy has already started the divorce process. Again, no independent corroboration, but it is more likely than not to be true. Also, it seems, according to my mother, that my sister's relationship with the guy is a very sweet one (so far), and he has come back to the picture in recent days -- ie no longer withdrawing.

 

The only other relevant piece of news is perhaps both a good and a bad sign. Looks like the guy's oldest son, who is now 18, left home at age 16, likely exhausted of the family situation. The "good" sign is that this is consistent with a home in disarray, and consistent with an intention for the guy to want to divorce. The bad sign is that this is consistent with a home in disarray, consistent with the younger kids likely to be emotionally damaged, which will make it only harder for my sister to fit into her new role of step mother, which again is a role she doesn't really want to have.

 

The more I think about it, the more I think this seems to be the encounter of two desperate people: my sister (desperate about being almost in her late 30s with almost no romantic experience and facing the serious risk of ending up alone and childless), and this man (with a family life in turmoil, years of an unhappy marriage, and perhaps wishing he could start all over again). They seem to act as if they are "saving" each other. So far, so good -- dating, movies, dinner, and sex. But once the baby arrives, the divorce proceeds, the man leave home, and my sister faces kids who will likely not accept her or love her, the fairy tale will most likely be much more difficult.

 

Vent over. Thanks for listening.

Edited December 9, 2013 by concernedsis

[concernedsis]

Well, it has been a little while. I have what I guess can be called "good news." Looks like the guys wasn't withdrawing. They are back seeing each other regularly. It also looks like he has initiated the divorce. I don't know the details, but my mother (who talks more often with my sister than I do) is fairly confident divorce proceedings have begun. I guess that's good news, and better than the alternative.

 

That said, and without going into much detail (too long) they both continue to exhibit very selfish behavior -- particularly him in relation to his own kids (and the two younger ones still don't know anything about their dad's new girlfriend, let alone the pregnancy). And my sister continues to be absolutely sure that everything is under control. Moreover, she and I talked, and she pretty much reiterated that she is very hurt that I am not ecstatic about her having found the man of her life -- and again blamed me for being too conservative / puritanical about not giving my full fledged blessing to the whole thing.

 

In any event, let's see how this evolves.

Edited December 19, 2013 by concernedsis

[whichwayisup]

Until he divorces, anything is possible, who knows if what he's told her is even true when it comes to leaving his wife. MM are great liars, so time will tell.

 

You don't have to agree with your sister's choices obviously, just be supportive when this goes south..And it will. This MM will soon have a shi.t storm to deal with regarding his wife and other kids when they find out.. That's when everybody will find out if he is divorcing his wife or disappearing from your sisters life, though he should pay child support if he does take off on her.

[turnera]

she and I talked, and she pretty much reiterated that she is very hurt that I am not ecstatic about her having found the man of her life -- and again blamed me for being too conservative / puritanical about not giving my full fledged blessing to the whole thing.

I guess my standard reply every time she brings it up would be "I will never condone you helping two young children lose their father to you."

[threelaurels]

Well, it has been a little while. I have what I guess can be called "good news." Looks like the guys wasn't withdrawing. They are back seeing each other regularly. It also looks like he has initiated the divorce. I don't know the details, but my mother (who talks more often with my sister than I do) is fairly confident divorce proceedings have begun. I guess that's good news, and better than the alternative.

 

That said, and without going into much detail (too long) they both continue to exhibit very selfish behavior -- particularly him in relation to his own kids (and the two younger ones still don't know anything about their dad's new girlfriend, let alone the pregnancy). And my sister continues to be absolutely sure that everything is under control. Moreover, she and I talked, and she pretty much reiterated that she is very hurt that I am not ecstatic about her having found the man of her life -- and again blamed me for being too conservative / puritanical about not giving my full fledged blessing to the whole thing.

 

In any event, let's see how this evolves.

 

Thanks for the update, and please continue to let us know how things are going. It's good that he does genuinely seem to be divorcing, but you are right in being concerned for your sister and his children. Is your sister responding to any of the things you're pointing out, or is she just getting defensive and accusing you of not supporting her?

 

Personally, I'm a big believer in "tough love" approaches to support, but I recognize that this type of approach may not be the most effective in some situations. I suspect your situation might be one of them. You might try focusing less on him and their relationship and more on asking her about their plans and new life together. For example, you could start by asking about when they will be moving in together, if they started looking at places to live yet, etc. Then you can start talking about the baby and baby's room and bring up decorating and how you'd like to help/will be keeping an eye out for cute ideas ("I saw the cutest baby room designs in so-and-so magazines! I should scan the pictures and show you them. Wouldn't this crib look great in the baby's future room?"). I think it will help you appear more supportive in her eyes. After you have done that, you can bring up things like her future stepkids' rooms in the house and talk about things like having a playroom for them and the baby when it gets older. Use that to then ask about her boyfriend's children, how she feels about being a stepmom, when she will meet the kids, etc. Taking this kind of approach might help her open up more, since I think (rightfully so) his kids are a big concern of yours.

 

Also, if you don't mind me asking... has your sister had any cognitive or developmental issues that may be at the heart of this? Please don't take my question the wrong way; I'm just wondering if there's a deeper reason here why your sister has (a) not had a serious relationship until her 30s and (b) is jumping head first into a relationship she considers serious but has actually only lasted a few months. What have her other romantic relationships been like up until this point? Has she dated before, or is this her first romantic relationship?

[Iguanna]

I guess my standard reply every time she brings it up would be "I will never condone you helping two young children lose their father to you."

 

I'm sorry but this seems a little unfair. First of all this woman didn't get pregnant by herself, the man (the father of these two kids) helped as well, and he is more "to blame" for the pregnancy cause he had more to lose, so blaming only the woman is kind of unfair. Secondly the children won't lose their father, he can still see them and spend time with them and be close to them. A divorce doesn't mean a man should disappear from sight. And thirdly this man was going to divorce before he met that woman (the OP's sister) so we can't totally blame her for this. I'm not saying that this woman is blameless, but this is the life and it happens all the time that kids pay sometimes for the mistakes of their parents.