Sister is OW and getting into a huge mess. What can I do?

[concernedsis]

Thanks for the update, and please continue to let us know how things are going. It's good that he does genuinely seem to be divorcing, but you are right in being concerned for your sister and his children. Is your sister responding to any of the things you're pointing out, or is she just getting defensive and accusing you of not supporting her?

 

Also, if you don't mind me asking... has your sister had any cognitive or developmental issues that may be at the heart of this? Please don't take my question the wrong way; I'm just wondering if there's a deeper reason here why your sister has (a) not had a serious relationship until her 30s and (b) is jumping head first into a relationship she considers serious but has actually only lasted a few months. What have her other romantic relationships been like up until this point? Has she dated before, or is this her first romantic relationship?

 

Thanks. To answer both of your questions at once: this is her first romantic relationship. She recently mentioned that she has been longing for a romantic (and sexual) relationship for so many years and, given her age, she was about to give up on ever having a relationship with any guy (let alone having kids). And suddenly this happens. She mentioned that she want to live everything right now right with him (sex, love, and even becoming a mother), and doesn't want to wait any longer to live these experiences. I of course have lots of compassion for her. However, and I have mentioned to her, her urge to live within a couple of months everything that she hasn't lived in the last couple of decades doesn't justify rushing into something with a man she barely knows, which can potentially have bad consequences -- at worst, becoming a single mom; at best, having a difficult relationship with emotionally hurt step kids.

 

She is just thinking about herself. I have asked her, what about his kids. She said that he has told her his kids will be fine and love the baby and she fully believes it's a non issue -- either out of naïveté or out of convenience. Honestly, if the guys didn't have kids, I would be more understanding, even if I would still find very unwise to rush into getting pregnant with a virtually unknown guy. But the consequences on the kids is what particularly bugs me. Particularly when she mentions that she doesn't want to be a step mom, seemingly oblivious to the fact that those kids are going to be a big part of her life. She is simply not thinking about that and just "living the present" -- of course, going out at night and living the early stages of a romance is easier than taking care of a newborn and two step kids, as well as adapting to a mundane, everyday life with the guy, with whom she has never lived.

 

And to answer someone else's question: I think my sister is definitely being selfishness vis a vis the consequences of the affair on his kids, but that pales in comparison to the guy's selfishness vis a vis his kids. After all, they are HIS kids, and he is just living this strong emotion without any regard of their emotional well being (did I mention that he is going to spend a big chunk of the holiday season with my sister, not with his kids, even though he hasn't told them about the divorce that presumably will take place in six months or so?). I think what irks me as well is her inability to assess this guy's suitability as a father. As I said, she is taking no consideration whatsoever to these issues -- she is just completely focused on living the new experiences of sex and romance, like an 18 year old girl.

 

So, no, she doesn't see any problem with the situation -- the only problem is the fact that we (my mother and I) are not fully embracing the situation. The rest are just minor nuisances that the guy has assured her will be taken care of.

[beach]

I think it's best to prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

 

If he doesn't divorce - she needs to be prepared and file for child support.

 

He will have consequences - and may never divorce.

 

Or he may divorce and marry your sister. If that's the case - I hope this older man still sees his kids a lot and is financially supportive of them. It may be hard to integrate 4 more kids into the new relationship. That's a lot to ask of anyone - but it does happen well at times.

 

What I see that's more concerning is that your sister bold faced lied to you. That's not ok. It shows her lack of character - and the fact that she was a willing participant in breaking up his family - and is happy this is happening - is cause for concern and a conversation with her that allows her to understand - you love her but don't like her bad behavior.

 

She's making life complicated now - no matter what happens - she will need your love and support - but I think it's important to address the fact that she's been so blatantly deceitful to you.

 

It's hard to trust when her words and actions haven't matched. Ask her if she's even willing to earn your trust back by being honest. If she's not willing to be honest - I'm not sure how you have any relationship with someone you don't trust.

 

She needs to allow you to understand if you begin to believe her or if she intends to continue with the lies.

 

 

Have you met this guy? I mean - what kind of guy does this? I'd have a tough time meeting him and not giving him a piece of my truth about how his bad behavior has ruined many lives.

 

Have you searched the public court records to see if he's filed for divorce yet? You can usually find it online.

Edited December 20, 2013 by beach

[Iguanna]

I think that you can't understand your sister's psyche. I pretty much always had a partner in my life (not that they were the best but still) and I feel sorry for these people who never had one but still I can't totally feel the pain in their hearts. You have to go through loneliness to understand it. You have to fall to the deepest scales of sadness and frustration to feel it. Your sister may be selfish, she may be naive, she may find a lot of problems ahead of her, but she has something she always wanted: a man to love, a kid to be born and a family. For you and for the most people what she has is imperfect and maybe wrong, but for her it's everything she ever wished for. Only if you have wished for something that much and that hard in your life can you understand her. I do understand her. I understand how frustrating it was for her to see her life passing by and her hopes for a family dying every day. She found her dream and grabbed it. She doesn't care if it's not perfect or not even close. All it matters is that she has something to hold onto. It's like a person who is drowning and they find something to hold to be saved but this something is a crocodile tail. They don't care. They're so happy they caught something that they can't think of the danger that is approaching. Not everyone's lives are perfect. I'm sure the world would be better if there was nothing bad happening, no illnesses, no deaths, no break ups, no sadness, no betrayals, but sadly this can't happen. I understand you are worried about her, her baby to be born and this guy's kids. But things can't be fixed now. As we say here, the water can't go back in the river, it only goes forward. Face the situation as it is. She has fulfilled her life's dream, even if it's imperfect. Give her the space and time to enjoy it and let the worries come when they come. After all nobody's life is perfect forever, things change and problems come even when we don't expect them. No need to poison her while she is pregnant with your fears. If they come true she will eventually face them and deal with them. For now let her be happy for a bit.

 

In fact, can you please do me a favor? Can you tell her to sign up in this forum and talk to us? I'm sure we will help her. I would so much want to talk to her, to give her hope, to be happy for her, to tell her "your dream will become true girl, your past days of sadness are over, you'll have your baby now and nothing else matters". Can you do this for me? Or give her my message please?

[beach]

With two big life changing things going on here - a baby and a family that's likely to be broken up - I'm sure it's difficult to be happy about the situation when she was lying about her involvement.

 

When a R is based on lies - it's difficult to support it.

 

It's early in the pregnancy and the R - and anything could become of the outcome.

 

 

It's also tough when she is being selfish and self serving. Many people will be negatively affected by her actions.

 

It's tough to support that - but it's also important for her to understand you love her - but don't agree with her actions.

 

It may turn out that she raises a child on her own.

 

 

 

Just be honest with her and hope she will find a way to get honest with others.

[turnera]

I'm sorry but this seems a little unfair. First of all this woman didn't get pregnant by herself, the man (the father of these two kids) helped as well, and he is more "to blame" for the pregnancy cause he had more to lose, so blaming only the woman is kind of unfair. Secondly the children won't lose their father, he can still see them and spend time with them and be close to them. A divorce doesn't mean a man should disappear from sight. And thirdly this man was going to divorce before he met that woman (the OP's sister) so we can't totally blame her for this. I'm not saying that this woman is blameless, but this is the life and it happens all the time that kids pay sometimes for the mistakes of their parents.

If her SISTER is aware he abandoned his kids, I'm sure she is aware. I see nothing wrong with pointing out to my sister that I won't condone her being in a relationship in which the man just dumps his kids for her.

[concernedsis]

Thanks, iguanna, for being willing to be in contact with her. However, she is not interested in coming to online forums like this one -- I already suggested that. The reason is simple: she doesn't see herself as the OW, because she is convinced the guy is almost-divorced, she and he are almost married, and there isn't really any problem -- other than our (my mom's and my) not fully embracing her acts. As she told me, she knows exactly what she is doing, and everything is fine. Why seek advice in, say, this forum, if everything is honky dory.

 

To beach: she indeed misled me. But I don't think she did it out of malice. I do suspect that when she originally talked to me about it, she was thinking things were going to move slowly -- but then she lost control or her own wishes and, along with him, rushed into things in a very unwise, selfish manner.

 

I don't think she and he are bad people. To be honest, I actually feel sorry for the guy. He must have been so miserable in his marriage to jump so strongly for a woman he barely knows, losing all sense of perspective, including being a good father for his kids. Of course, that doesn't justify his behavior.

 

And, as iguanna said, I do realize that my sister must have been desperate to do this, and I feel compassion for her -- I can't imagine not having had any sexual or romantic experience by my mid-30s. The problem is, she could have done this in a much better way without much cost. She knows there will be young step kids. Any reasonable person knows that they will be emotionally smashed by the divorce. Why not wait just a little bit longer to let them and everyone adjust? why conceive a child a couple of months into the relationship, instead of after the divorce is done -- after all, he is claiming the divorce will be done in about 5 months. Why not take just a little but of time? (After all, she herself once told me, before this affair, that she wouldn't want to be a single mother -- she wanted to raise a kid with a father. She also told me, during the affair, that she is not ready and doesn't want to be a step mom. Rushing into things can't possibly help with these two issues).

 

I can't accept that "such is the hurried nature of love" is the answer. Everyone would have been better off *including her* with just waiting a few more months, get to know each other better, even get to know the kids. Using a condom is not that difficult after all. Sure, he will feel less sexual pleasure with a condom, but he should have known that his kids' emotional well being is more important than enhanced sexual pleasure. (Note, I am not even judging the wisdom of getting into a relationship with a married co-worker with four kids).

 

Honestly, I would be able to feel more closure if she simply admitted that she has been making mistakes along the way, which may have very negative consequences for her and for innocent kids. But she thinks everything is fine and I am just too conservative. There isn't anything I can do to change that.

Edited December 21, 2013 by concernedsis

[Iguanna]

I want to say this: when someone has gone through much pain in his life, be it emotional or physical, they start to perceive things around them differently that the rest of the people. In your (and most people's) world she is the typical other woman who has shamelessly stolen a married man from his kids and used him to get pregnant, without caring for the consequences. I'm pretty sure that in her world all she can see now is that she left that miserable life she was so used to and she finally did what she wanted in her life. That's why she can't feel you when you tell her your opinion. Maybe she is aware of the mistakes subconsciously but she doesn't want to let them come to her conscious cause she wants to feel this joy of the pregnancy fully. Most times we people stop our subconscious thoughts and ideas and emotions from coming to the surface for various reasons.

 

You are saying that she would have waited to see how things go etc. That's correct but in the real world. In her world, where her hopes for happiness and love were being lost every passing day, she saw this opportunity and grabbed it. Now someone will ask, is this enough to justify her for her actions? Maybe it's not but as I said before, she doesn't have the ability to understand the impact of her actions cause she has a different perception of the world than us. Plus she is old enough now, who would guarantee her that she could get pregnant the moment she thought everything was perfect?

 

Anyway, please give her my sympathies and best wishes for her and her baby.

[concernedsis]

I will. Thanks.

 

That said, I learned something that I find troubling. As I mentioned earlier, my sister doesn't feel ready, and doesn't want, to be a step mom. It looks like my sister and the man have reached the following agreement. She and he will live together without his kids. Every couple of weeks, he will come back to his former house, where his soon-to-be-ex-wife and two younger kids will continue to live, and spend the weekend there with them. That way, he will be granting my sister her wish of not having to live with step kids.

 

I find this arrangement screwed up. And I no longer know what to think of my sister's judgment.

Edited December 24, 2013 by concernedsis

[beach]

I will. Thanks.

 

That said, I learned something that I find troubling. As I mentioned earlier, my sister doesn't feel ready, and doesn't want, to be a step mom. It looks like my sister and the man have reached the following agreement. She and he will live together without his kids. Every couple of weeks, he will come back to his former house, where his soon-to-be-ex-wife and two younger kids will continue to live, and spend the weekend there with them. That way, he will be granting my sister her wish of not having to live with step kids.

 

I find this arrangement screwed up. And I no longer know what to think of my sister's judgment.

 

Is your sister in agreement on this proposal?

 

 

I can't help but think she is so desperate for a man and a baby that she'd agree to it. A father who sees his kids two days out of 14 is not parenting them. He is "visiting" them. The fact that he would think this is good enough is beyond comprehension. Not to mention he will be staying with the wife - and that should work well for him too.

 

Your sister is delusional. If he's not a good dad now - not making decisions in the best interest of his kids = he's not going to do it for the child she has either.

 

But, he didn't offer to marry your sister- and that may just work out to benefit her. Either way - she needs it in writing exactly how he intends to support her child. I'm talking money...because we can see it won't be with his presence.

[Iguanna]

I don't see a problem in this arrangement to be honest. If the man divorces, he will have the right to visit his kids every weekend or every other weekend anyway (cause most probably they will stay with their mom). So this is what he will do. This is what happens after a divorce, no man lives with his kids anymore, he just visits them. I don't think it's desperation from OP's sister's part, but common sense. You want to go visit your kids, be my guest. Where is the troubling part of this?