The BS's role

[ClemsonTigers]

i really feel that your counselors opinions concerning NOT admitting to your affair are flawed. i mean..... how can you try and fix your marriage without coming clean about something like this. for them to advise you to keep such a thing under wraps is pretty f*cked up..... almost like they are enabling you to perpetuate a lie, all the while staring in your husbands face while you omit this from your counseling discussions. WTF?!

 

9 out of 10 times (a guess) I find it's either the patients misremembering or hearing what they want to hear when relating these type of things their counselors supposedly told them OR it's the counselor merely nodding their heads and saying "I see" while the patient tells the counselor why they aren't/won't tell their spouse about their affair. If you ask the counselor they will indicate they tried to ask questions and hoped to lead them to a more proper honest authentic life but that just became the goal for the next [paid] session. God forbid they advise a client what to do.

 

To me…if it happened…unless the counseling session was with a bruised and battered wife in a women's shelter it's professional malpractice to tell/advise/counsel a wayward they should keep the secret. It's even worse than a counselor telling a couple the marriage can survive the wayward spouse and the OM/OW continuing to work together.

[thecharade]

What she said exactly was, "In most cases, I advise telling, but not in yours. You are already doing all the work to make things right, so telling him would help nothing."

 

What is worse:

 

A. "I cheated on you, but now I want to stay M"?

 

Or

 

B. "I am done with you, I want a divorce"?

 

My counselor thinks B is worse, so she is happy if she can keep me feeling only A.

[thecharade]

Why are BSs so focused on the cheating over the worse outcome, the loss of the M entirely? What happened to the"hard work" of M? Doesn't that include getting over cheating?

[peaksandvalleys]

Why are BSs so focused on the cheating over the worse outcome, the loss of the M entirely? What happened to the"hard work" of M? Doesn't that include getting over cheating?

 

 

Not in my eyes. What marriage? "F" the hard work of staying with someone who would lie to my face daily while limiting my choices. That is why I hired a PI and a shark for a lawyer. That is why I would never believe another word that came out of his mouth. That is why he has no home, no business and now no family. That was all the hard work I owed him.

[ClemsonTigers]

What she said exactly was, "In most cases, I advise telling, but not in yours. You are already doing all the work to make things right, so telling him would help nothing."

 

What is worse:

 

A. "I cheated on you, but now I want to stay M"?

 

Or

 

B. "I am done with you, I want a divorce"?

 

My counselor thinks B is worse, so she is happy if she can keep me feeling only A.

 

Just my opinion…your counselor sucks

 

Divorce is better than a lie for a relationship.

 

He is not your puppy.

 

The truth [together with you filing for divorce] might actually wake him up, get him fighting for you and be the foundation of a new honest relationship.

 

"he doesn't want to know" ---- how disrespectful, perhaps option B is better.

[janedoe67]

Why are BSs so focused on the cheating over the worse outcome, the loss of the M entirely? What happened to the"hard work" of M? Doesn't that include getting over cheating?

 

I think the point is that they can't "get over" something that affects THEIR life if they don't even know about it because they are being kept in the dark.

[ClemsonTigers]

What she said exactly was, "In most cases, I advise telling, but not in yours. You are already doing all the work to make things right, so telling him would help nothing."

 

Another reason this doesn't work….

 

You don't respect your husband. You can't love someone you don't respect. He has no idea you have cuckolded him and his naiveté isn't going to help you feel attracted to him. You'll look upon him as a Gomer Pyle.

 

You'll also avoid taking your relationship deeper or to a more honest place because that may involve questions and more lies so instead you have to live parallel non-intimate lives. Instead of becoming intimate and interdependent you become passive towards each other and independent.

 

However, because you'll feel guilty…you'll go out of your way to be nice to him for a short while trying to atone for unnamed sins. He's gonna really like this but since he won't know why you are doing this he won't, in any meaningful way, acknowledge your sacrifice. You'll end up resenting that, once again, YOU are making all the changes and the effort. You'll blow up at him and he'll just be confused.

 

Then you'll either end up cheating again OR actually filing for divorce AND blaming him. You'll have even more excuses for your prior cheating…forgive yourself again because "you tried" while rationalizing that you gave him 100 extra chances AFTER the affair to make this right so this is now on the both of us. Then you still won't tell him while you feel completely entitled to take as much as you possibly can during any divorce process.

[velvette]

What she said exactly was, "In most cases, I advise telling, but not in yours. You are already doing all the work to make things right, so telling him would help nothing."

 

What is worse:

 

A. "I cheated on you, but now I want to stay M"?

 

Or

 

B. "I am done with you, I want a divorce"?

 

My counselor thinks B is worse, so she is happy if she can keep me feeling only A.

 

Your "counselor" is incompetent. You should demand a refund and use it to pay a divorce attorney. You don't have the courage to do the real work of being honest, so whats the point of continuing this sham of a M?

 

How arrogant of both of you to think you have the right to decide whats best for another adult.

[Artie Lang]

Doesn't that include getting over cheating?

 

how do you get over being cheated-on, if you don't know about it???

 

 

i could only imagine the horrible advice these counselors are giving couples regarding infidelity- to rugsweep; to omit truths/give half-truths; to keep OBS in the dark. how can you repair something when you won't even address the problem?

 

the part that really gets me is how they can sit there, staring straight into this poor bastards' eyes- knowing what they know -and nod their heads as if progress is being made. in my opinion, they are co-conspirators in this deception.

[atreides]

Why are BSs so focused on the cheating over the worse outcome, the loss of the M entirely? What happened to the"hard work" of M? Doesn't that include getting over cheating?

 

Simply because infidelity is "the worse outcome" for a M, via the context for which a M is built.

For many infidelity is "the loss of the M entirely" as the WS walked away from the M whether you discuss it as a symptom or problem. Sharing what you exclusive promised your spouse with another is the ultimate betrayal of that promise.

 

There are many other types of problems of course an M can suffer, some more severe than others but i think it is safe to say most find infidelity the ultimate act.

 

That said, as Jane points out, not all M problems should revolve around an A if it occurs. Jane is correct that not all blame for all of the problems with in the M is bound to an A.

[AlwaysGrowing]

Quite simply, the loss of the marriage isn't always the worse possible outcome. Sometimes...its long overdue.

 

TC...the dynamic you are now working towards...is one where you hold all the cards. And wield them as you see fit. You hand your husband his cards, and tell him which ones he needs to play so that you can win. Your husband is unaware that the winner and the loser have already been decided. He is the bad guy. You the long suffering wife, who tried for years...to no avail...when you could have left at any time...he should thank his lucky stars to have you. He gets to wear any and all dunce caps that you and your IC decide to put on him. The whole time denying you have any to wear...except for..."it was my fault I didn't divorce you sooner." Nice set up there. Even your so called negative is a slam against the marriage and him, one where you get to wear a shiny martyr tiara.

 

Obviously, its not only a BS that can have a difficult time owning their sh*t.

[waterwoman]

Define 'broken'. Do I believe that most BS are not perfect and flawless? Yes. I believe that most people are not perfect and flawless. It's the nature of humans to be individual, like hand blown glass, each piece is different, and some of those flaws may make the piece shatter when exposed to pressure, some just make the piece more interesting and beautiful.

 

I have plenty of flaws, some kindly donated by my mum, some by my dad and some I just picked up all by my self somewhere along the way. So does H. His parents were particularly generous in this regard..... I hAve no doubt that both our flaws contributed to the state of our marriage. But we were so young when we got together that we weren't mature, experienced or fully-formed enough to be blamed for picking badly. We met, fell in love and stayed together, hanging on for dear life during the hard times, never questioning that we would always be together.....until the affair. Then, with the benefit of hindsight, we could see the mistakes we made, where our FOO issues showed themselves, where we could have done things differently. But I'm older now, it would be a pretty poor show if I hadn't learned a bit of self-awareness by this age.

 

I can see why your IC suggested you shouldn't reveal the affair. In terms of fixing your marriage short-term it makes sense, if it forces your h to address his issues alongside you addressing yours, but I don't think I'd want to have a marriage in which such a big lie is hidden for ever. I guess only you know if you can live with it for the rest of your life.

[Darren Steez]

People who choose to react to WS posts, definitely shouldn't go to the OW/OM section. I wouldn't get too wound up about what they post, especially for those who trigger.

 

It just shines a light on those who make bad choices. That is life.

[lilmisscantbewrong]

I would never tell you that your counselor's advice is wrong. I think every circumstance is different. If you ask my husband now, he says he would prefer that he never knew about my affair - and this is a BS talking.

 

At any rate, here is my biggest concern. You are constantly living with a time bomb - never knowing when it will go off. I am living this right now with my husband because of the way I chose to handle his affair - I kept it quiet because I wanted to handle things differently than my situation - which was very public. There are very few that know - my two daughters do but my son does not and I believe my husband needs to tell him because I don't think he should find out from any other source. I didn't tell our daughters as I felt if was his responsibility to do that and the one still living at home knew something was wrong and started asking questions. My best friend knows and my sister.

 

But here is the thing - because xmow used to work at my husbands office she shows up from time to time which sends my husband (who is one of the most confident men I know) running to hide - it makes him nervous because, even though he won't and admit it, I am certain he is thinking "is this the day this all comes out?". Her BS does not know, as far as I know and he is known to be a volatile man - I wonder some days if he will show up at our doorstep with a gun.

 

I can tell you it is no way to live. I believe my situation was completely mishandled but the one thing about it is there is absolutely nothing to hide - it's out. My husband lives with this hanging over his head every day and because of that, I do too. For awhile I worried about a possible sexual harassment lawsuit because she was an employee and although I know it was consensual, you never know how these things will play out. I'm not so much worried about that anymore, but the last thing I want is for this to all blow up bigger than life again years down the road.

 

I worry that maybe after my husband is gone, my kids will be sitting around talking and it will come up and the girls will spill this story and my son will have such a hard time believing it that it will cause a riff between siblings. That bothers me more than anything.

 

So for that reason, alone, I am for you coming clean about the affair. It is much better to live in truth, no matter how hard it is or what the end result is, than to live with a bomb that could go off at any moment.

 

That being said, I would never impose my view on you at all and I wish you luck navigating all of this.

Edited December 1, 2013 by lilmisscantbewrong

[goodyblue]

I think it is fair to say that marital problems rest on the heads of those in the marriage. Those problems can lead to a spouse cheating. But it was still a choice that only can be the fault of the one who cheated.

 

The problem in our relationship is that his ex wife now only sees the infidelity as the cause for the end of the marriage, which simply is not true. She will never look at her issues now, which are plentiful, and that is really too bad.

 

Was the marriage a mess? Yes. Was the mess both of their fault? Of course. Did she cause the affair? No.

[Mr. Lucky]

Why are BSs so focused on the cheating over the worse outcome, the loss of the M entirely? What happened to the"hard work" of M? Doesn't that include getting over cheating?

 

You should own your own sh*t. If you had a bad marriage, that's reason to divorce, not to cheat. And if you want to have a good marriage, follow your own advice and let your H do the "hard work" of getting over cheating...

 

Mr. Lucky

[drifter777]

Why are BSs so focused on the cheating over the worse outcome, the loss of the M entirely? What happened to the"hard work" of M? Doesn't that include getting over cheating?

Because the pain of betrayal is worse than what you think is the "worst outcome". The BS's you meet here on LS are still hurting and trying to understand why their spouse cheated and what they did to cause it, etc. etc. All this pain comes with finding out their spouse slept with someone else.

 

 

And "getting over" cheating isn't typically included in the "hard work of M". A BS trying to work through their WS's betrayal is above and beyond the call of duty.

[Spark1111]

This may be more than a bit controversial, but I'm going to post it anyway.

 

I am the WS, and my H does not know about my A, outrightly anyway. He and I have both been in IC for a year, with a little MC thrown in. My IC agrees that my H does most likely know there was an A, but he does not want the details. He uses denial like a master to stay away from pain, and he is completely conflict avoidant. He communicates only through passive aggressive behaviors. Me? My issues? Codependent all the way! I tried to get him to see my pain and to make changes, but he wouldn't. As our MC said to my H, "She needs to own the fact that she stayed married to you and didn't divorce you. It would have been a wake up call 17 years ago instead of now. But, she let you think your avoidance of issues was ok because she covered up how she really felt." My A has been over for 17 months, and I'm the one who ended it. My H and I have been working hard since then.

 

My brother just went through a very ugly D. She cheated on him continually throughout the M. He has now found a new gf, like all his other gfs and his W: broken. He always chooses needy, damaged women who are struggling, either financially, emotionally, situationally, or all 3. I clearly see that he has Knight in Shining Armour issues, but he does not see his role or responsibility. "It was my W that cheated, and I had nothing to do with her choices!" And we are terrified for him because he clearly has issues that are going to lead to another woman crushing him.

 

If WSs are broken and water seeks its own level, then doesn't that make BSs broken too in some way, for choosing to marry someone who clearly had issues? If your WS is a narcissist, for example, shouldn't you be very worried about why you found a narcissist attractive in the first place, enough to marry them?

 

I am very worried for my brother. He has two eight year olds to watch out for. My H and I are both equally working our butts off, only because he doesn't know about the A outright. If he did, we'd be working on his pain instead of our unhealthy dynamic. If he wanted to work on only his pain and not our relationship, I would have left him. My A was an exit A, so I was done trying to cope in an M where I was doing all of the work while he denied, denied, and denied my unhappiness.

 

This is not the dynamic of every A, but it is common in many. How does a BS not see that they often played a role, in choosing their "broken" spouse, if nothing else? How do you not repeat your own mistakes if you don't see your own issues?

 

I have discussed this with my IC, who is now divorced after her husband cheated. She agrees that a BS will have trouble owning through their pain, and that is why she told me not to tell my H. Because he won't own his part of our long-time broken M if I do. He won't be able to see it through his pain. Just like my brother who wouldn't own any part of his M after his ex cheated. And now he is about to marry loser #2.

 

ABSOLUTELY had a major part in picking a broken spouse....but never saw it because....sigh, love is blind.

 

If, like many psychs believe today, we pick a partner who most resembles an improved version of the parent we had the least successful relationship with because we are trying to heal old psychic wounds......ah, yes! That is exactly what I did!

 

But cheat on me? In a million years, no, never saw that coming ever! That is NOT the parent I chose in my spouse.

 

And I have been to therapy tune-ups, many times, prior to my fWS's affair.

 

So, I guess I was wrong about him. I married the only man I felt safe with, and although there were other issues I tried to address, no, never, ever thought I'd be cheated on.

 

Go figure.....

[Spark1111]

I don't argue both sides. H should never have ever "had to see something coming." I believe that under the right set of circumstances anyone can be tempted to cheat. If you are asexual - like my H for example - you probably aren't going to.

 

An A is always the responsibility of the one who chooses to have it.

 

HOWEVER

 

An A does NOT magically make all pre-A problems the fault of the WS OR mean that they did not exist. Those problems don't excuse an A....but someone who makes the choice to be blind to all of their own issues and rather excuse them because "my spouse cheated" is not doing themselves any favors.

 

An A is wrong. My A was my fault.

 

My H still wasn't perfect....sorry. And neither is anyone else, whether they can look in the mirror clearly or not.

 

Jane, I'm not perfect and have never claimed to be. But if my man wasn't sexual with me, I'd give it a year.

 

I'd TELL HIM we got one year, because as much as I love you, I cannot be sexless. Then, I need to divorce because that's a deal breaker for me. i WILL start to resent it and will want to be sexual with someone who finds me attractive, who wants me. SO, how can we fix this, because I love us and do not want US to end?

 

what spins so many BSs is that the want, need, demands, and END DATE is never expressed as a deal breaker. I know you may be the exception to the rule, but MANY are not.

 

many of us experienced some whining about nothing to specific which increased ten fold once the crashed into their secret AP. Some experienced NOTHING spoken that led us to believe their was trouble or unhappiness afoot, KWIM?

[rumbleseat]

I would like to think that most people don't go into marriage thinking they are going to cheat. They put more value on it than that.

 

If they can't see it in themselves to cheat, then how can anyone else be expected to?

 

I don't think cheating happens in isolation; there can be a wide range of reasons that a person came to see that decision as an acceptable one. The fact remains that the ws made that decision. Once they figure out why, the couple can work,together to begin to adress the issues that exist in the marriage.

 

All variables need to be looked at, tackling the problem from only one angle won't fix anything.

[AlwaysGrowing]

I would like to think that most people don't go into marriage thinking they are going to cheat. They put more value on it than that.

 

If they can't see it in themselves to cheat, then how can anyone else be expected to?

 

I don't think cheating happens in isolation; there can be a wide range of reasons that a person came to see that decision as an acceptable one. The fact remains that the ws made that decision. Once they figure out why, the couple can work,together to begin to adress the issues that exist in the marriage.

 

All variables need to be looked at, tackling the problem from only one angle won't fix anything.

 

I agree....to a point.

 

To me, the relationship prior, the choice to cheat and the relationship after....are separate issues.

 

Two of those....involve both parties willing to work together, the other one is a solo project.

 

The reason why I say solo is....that the one who chose to cheat needs to be able to understand how they work internally. How do we get to know ourselves better? By digging deep within ourselves, we then learn HOW to dig deep...how be more in tune with our inner voices...how to assess what is going on internally...how to recognize it...and respond appropriately. No one else can do that for you.

[krazikat]

Where your theory goes off track...is that not ALL WS had issues from the beginning, let alone issues that one could with any accuracy predict infidelity in their arsenal.

 

One FWS and one current WS both stated that they didn't go off the rails in the beginning...infidelity not even on their radar...one said he was offended at the suggestion.

 

Do some? Sure. However, that is true whether infidelity is involved or not. You can just see the relationship is doomed, most often you see the damsel/dumsel in distress and you just know...the other party is going to get exhausted trying to be everything, all the time, day and night...to such a leech of a human being.

 

Placing blame because the BS had the audacity to marry the WS in the first place...omg...how could they not see...they truly just should have opened their eyes a bit more...you know...his mother always said....I warned him...is just so childish. Well, I wouldn't have stolen the cookies if you hadn't bought them....so there!!!!! One can now effectively argue that someone else is to blame for everything now...drunk drivers...not at fault...those that made the beer are responsible...and the car manufacturers.

 

Whoever chooses to use the poor coping skill owns it...in its entirety.

 

Exactly! It seems as though some cheaters will do/say anything to avoid the full responsibility of their actions!

 

My husband was not broken when we first got together, but there were events where I hurt him significantly that we never fully recovered from. Since dday and my later decision to stay with him, I can say that the man I fell in love with is back. It was a long road to get back to this but here we are.

 

Now, I do see what you are saying about your brother and I do agree that some people just don't pick good mates...and as another poster said, he needs to figure out why and learn how to avoid in the future. Is it his fault if she cheats? Absolutely not. Could he have avoided it if he recognized and avoided the type? Sure. Which is why we need to learn ourselves and love ourselves so we avoid toxic relationships. Big we are still not responsible for the actual actions of others.

[janedoe67]

We are not responsible for the actions of others. Even if we are terrible to our spouses, their choice to cheat is THEIR choice.

 

We are responsible for how WE choose to treat our spouses and our marriage. We are responsible for the choice WE make in response to their actions. But we are NOT responsible for their choices.

 

There are people who become WS's who are trouble waiting to happen from the beginning. There are people who become WS's who allow themselves to respond to hurts by becoming bitter, angry, resentful, and entitled. And because they allow themselves to become that way, they choose to cheat. It is still their choice to cheat.

 

The indisputable fact is that even with all the similarities in the typical A story every person is still an individual and every marriage is THAT marriage. The trick is to be astute and objective enough to know what can be generalized to everyone and what cannot.

[experiencethedevine]

As so many have already reiterated here, the person who initiated and continued to initiate clandestine activity with someone who is not their wife/husband MUST take full responsibility for the continuation of those choices, every time they interacted with the affair partner. Each time they met, it is by choice, NOT because of the marital issues that may or may not be present.

 

Just as one MUST take responsibility for those difficulties within the marriage, problems are further exacerbated if one of the spouses is unable/unwilling to communicate effectively in order to attempt resolution. BOTH must be willing to strip back the layers, find a solution and rebuild, otherwise all is lost.

 

If a person acts toward us in a way we are not comfortable with, we are not responsible for the way they behave toward us, but we ARE responsible for the way we respond to that behaviour. That is the essence of taking control over our reactions.

 

I agree with the majority. You are falsely committed to counsel while you continue to deny your husband the opportunity to make his own decisions regarding your behaviour.

 

No counsellor worth their salt would be as unprofessional as yours appears..........

[peaksandvalleys]

This may be more than a bit controversial, but I'm going to post it anyway.

 

I am the WS, and my H does not know about my A, outrightly anyway. He and I have both been in IC for a year, with a little MC thrown in. My IC agrees that my H does most likely know there was an A, but he does not want the details. He uses denial like a master to stay away from pain, and he is completely conflict avoidant. He communicates only through passive aggressive behaviors. Me? My issues? Codependent all the way! I tried to get him to see my pain and to make changes, but he wouldn't. As our MC said to my H, "She needs to own the fact that she stayed married to you and didn't divorce you. It would have been a wake up call 17 years ago instead of now. But, she let you think your avoidance of issues was ok because she covered up how she really felt." My A has been over for 17 months, and I'm the one who ended it. My H and I have been working hard since then.

 

My brother just went through a very ugly D. She cheated on him continually throughout the M. He has now found a new gf, like all his other gfs and his W: broken. He always chooses needy, damaged women who are struggling, either financially, emotionally, situationally, or all 3. I clearly see that he has Knight in Shining Armour issues, but he does not see his role or responsibility. "It was my W that cheated, and I had nothing to do with her choices!" And we are terrified for him because he clearly has issues that are going to lead to another woman crushing him.

 

If WSs are broken and water seeks its own level, then doesn't that make BSs broken too in some way, for choosing to marry someone who clearly had issues? If your WS is a narcissist, for example, shouldn't you be very worried about why you found a narcissist attractive in the first place, enough to marry them?

 

I am very worried for my brother. He has two eight year olds to watch out for. My H and I are both equally working our butts off, only because he doesn't know about the A outright. If he did, we'd be working on his pain instead of our unhealthy dynamic. If he wanted to work on only his pain and not our relationship, I would have left him. My A was an exit A, so I was done trying to cope in an M where I was doing all of the work while he denied, denied, and denied my unhappiness.

 

This is not the dynamic of every A, but it is common in many. How does a BS not see that they often played a role, in choosing their "broken" spouse, if nothing else? How do you not repeat your own mistakes if you don't see your own issues?

 

I have discussed this with my IC, who is now divorced after her husband cheated. She agrees that a BS will have trouble owning through their pain, and that is why she told me not to tell my H. Because he won't own his part of our long-time broken M if I do. He won't be able to see it through his pain. Just like my brother who wouldn't own any part of his M after his ex cheated. And now he is about to marry loser #2.

 

 

OP did you not find the answers you were looking for? It seems you have abandoned the thread? What specifically were you seeking?