Thoughts on ex gf

[Augustus64]

where to begin.

We attended college together for a year but met and really began the courting phase during the second semester of school. we were both 18 years old. we got together during summer break in between fresh and soph year everything was absolutely perfect, her and i fit together unlike anything I've ever experienced before it was absolute bliss being with her. She was my best friend. As i spent more time with her i noticed something was a bit off with her that at first i didn't see because i was so infatuated with her during this time we were kids just getting into our sexuality and would have sex like 7 times a day. I remember the first time i met her mom (dad passed away at 16) her relationship with her mom was probably the worst thing id ever seen. She would curse and shout at her mom for the littlest thing. it was shocking! and evident that there were some serious issues here. As i spent more time with her she began to trust me and confide in me and empty out her darkest secrets. basically she blamed her mom for her fathers death, which wasn't her fault and also had a brother that was adopted that sexually abused her. I was 18 and this was all new to me. I really didn't know how to handle her at times i was still figuring myself out. she would have extreme bouts of anger at something as small as a friend canceling a lunch date with her or something. i mean she was a handful. Her fathers death was something that at the time she didn't want to deal with and we happened to get together 2 years after.

 

i found out from her mom that she had been diagnosed w ptsd she was suffering from depression badly. her moods would be all over the place she scared me once when i went to see her and she had cut herself, had the bandaids on her left arm. when i talked to her about it she was ashamed and apologized. it wasn't out of the norm for her to tell me she wanted to die. man it was tough. then at the flip of the switch she would be again the most awesome precious little thing i ever seen. i really loved this little girl more than i ever loved anyone else. during this time being in school i was an athlete and things weren't going well on that front so i was unhappy. then i was tryna make my girl happy and that was like a roller coaster. when i was 19 this is the end of soph year i cheated on her because i just wasn't happy with myself and was trying to find happiness through girls showing me attention. i hurt her and it sucked i hurt her really bad and she was already hurting i was the one person she trusted and i ****ed up but i was ****ed up man. we broke up for a while and i gave her space as everyone instructed after a while i felt like i had to get my baby back and i poured my heart out to her we cried, it was a cathartic experience after sometime she gave me another shot. but i had to build back up that trust, fine. everything was wonderful for quite sometime maybe a yr and a half we did absolutely EVERYTHING together just extremely comfortable w each other for example i could be taking a **** in the bathroom an she would be fixing her makeup in the mirror like its no big deal everyone saw we were awesome together we called each other soulmates and it felt like that. then she started getting unhappy again and it weighed on me tremendously it was effecting my performance as an athlete. we had some fights of epic proportions finally sr year i decided we take a break as it was taking a toll on the both of us so we can grow. she could accept that she needed prof help to stabilize her and i could mature as man and figure out who i was and be happy with what i found. being single for the first time in 3 years and not having much sexual experience i began to hookup w lot of girls thinking i need to get this out my system if im going to marry my ex like we talked about and still building my self esteem through all these women.

 

whenever my ex gf at the time found out who the girl was she would find her fb and absolutely destroy her for days just call the girl a hor, a bitch a cunt anything and everything to scare her away from me. she would be brutal. once she caught me in the parking lot with a girl cause sometimes she would just drive up to campus and be on patrol and tried to run me over like literally just stepped on the gas and had this look on her face that scared me. she once during this time sent me 125 text msgs in a night and when i didnt respond because i had a game the next day she just broke into my dorm room while i was asleep and waking up to her hovering over me scared the **** out of me. but this was like normal. after some time passed she began to try to move on and she did so by sleeping with one of my friends and also someone that i competed against that she new wasn't right. I flipped when i found out almost in similar fashion as she did. it was too close to home i thought.

 

 

 

some how some way we got back together through all this thinking it was like were pre ordained to make it thru or whatever so after a yr together it was cool but then one drunken night in college i cheated on her again 4 years removed from doing it the first time. i told her about it and she went nuts she harassed the girl to the point were the girl got a restraining order against me as she made me say terrible terrible things to the girl that i knew were wrong but i did it so my ex gf could hurt a little less. we agreed to go our separate ways as i needed to really sort myself out. one of my biggest fears is divorce and you cant be man cheating on people thats ****ed up. so i left school and she really wanted me back she was trying very hard but i knew what was best for her was to grow apart from me and maybe in the future when were both adults we could do it the right way. she didnt really accept this. we had ex sex a month after i left school but we both agreed it was a farewell type of thing. i wore a condom but i came on her backside during intercourse she showered then we hugged and went our separate ways. couple weeks later i got a call from one of my friends saying my ex gf is out telling everyone that shes pregnant with my kid. which i new was not possible. i called her calmly and said wtf is going on? she says im pregnant i tell her that cant be possible she tells me when she took the shower the seamen went inside and she was pregnant at which point she texted me a picture of a positive test. ignored it and her cause i knew it just wasnt possible. after ignoring her for a while she called me angry saying some of the most hurtful things. my mom whos a diabetic, she said my mom had five more years to live because shes fat and a diabetic. i hung up on her. ignored her, blocked her but she would hack my facebook all the time it was like she worked at the NSA or something. months later i began seeing someone new not seriously but just getting my mind off of the drama she caught wind and again tried to DESTROY this girl. the girl i was seeing sent me illicit photos to which my ex hacked and sent to the girls PARENTS! it was bad. we went sometime w/out speaking about 8 months then i reached out to her just to say hi and see how she was doing we talked for a bit then it just faded. 8 months passed and i found out she has a bf and i didnt understand why but that actually affected me. i always thought eventually we would get right and make it work after we have grown some and she has gotten to learn to love herself she was very insecure before me and i know my cheating made it worse, which is why i had to let her go. so i wrote her letter trying to get back together w her and she shot it down pretty much i sent her mom flowers and a card. she sent me a text saying shes building a life w the person shes seeing now that if i loved her to leave her be. then she sent another saying she realized she didnt really love me which was pretty ****ed up and i didnt believe given that she once said she would have proposed to me in the future and kids and all that lovey love stuff. i figured she just said that to force me to leave her alone and i have. question is why the **** do i feel like im letting the love of my life slip away? I started to think maybe it was some emotional attachment since i took her mind off her dad, idkno. help.

[Phantomu]

Ok so...

 

This girl is not for you brother. She has some psychological issues she needs to work through before you could ever even CONSIDER getting back with her. From what I read, this girl is crazy. I don't blame her for having such a messed up life and all these things that factor into the person she is. But as far as I can tell, that is toxic. You've cheated on her a couple times and have even been back and forth with her. It's probably hard dealing with because you have been with her on and off for so long. She relied on you to make her feel better and even then you made some unwise decisions. If she has moved on with the person she is seeing you should let it go because maybe you won't have to worry about future problems, like her hacking you and sending pics to peoples families.. <---THAT IS NUTS. Think about it man...Do you really think she is the love of your life?

[Augustus64]

See everything you wrote is EXACTLY what my gut tells me i should do, heck, even my best friend who attended school with me at the time and had a front row seat to the show said for wanting her back Im losing my mind. He thinks I should be out celebrating she has a boyfriend as it would keep her away. But inexplicably theres that piece of me that thinks she's all better now and we could do it the right way and I'm missing out, idkno. I just need to figure out a way to rid myself of that piece i guess. Tips?

[Phantomu]

You want her back because she is not yours anymore.. Take this as it is and do your thing. You're obviously capable of getting into relationships with other girls. She has ruined this up until now. Change your passwords on EVERYTHING.. That way if she does attempt to do these things again she will be more obvious and will have to go to extremes to accomplish it.

[Augustus64]

So for those five years even the really good times it wasn't love huh?

its really hard to distinguish what love is now. I'll do my thing. thanks for the advice it gave me better clarity.

[Phantomu]

I'm sure she loved or even still loves you man. It's just that she is a bit unstable don't you think? I'm sure you love and care about her too. It's just that you have demonstrated the capability to try and move on and be happy. Understand that before you can be with her again she has some life issues that she needs to work on. You don't want to run into her becoming crazy again and making your life hell. If it's going to happen it's going to take time. 5 years is a really long time and I can see why it is so hard man I really can and i'm really sorry this is happening to you. But right now she is with someone so you can't really push anymore. You have to let it ride and just do you. I'm struggling with no contact myself. It's one of the hardest things i've ever done but you can do it and it's in your best interest man. Stay here at Loveshack when the times get hard. These people will remind you.

[Augustus64]

Absolutely she is unstable. Maybe i was young and blinded by the connection and feared it was a once in a lifetime thing so I always held out hope she would get better and I would grow up. NC is tough but its really the only play here.

Im staying right here, glad i found this place.

[Phantomu]

I'm glad you have too man, it's helped me quite a bit. For the future, don't cheat

[Augustus64]

never ever ever again

[Augustus64]

Together for five years 18-23 off and on. more highs than lows. when it was high it was HIGH when it was low it was LOWW. we would fight like cats and dogs sometimes in public. dated through out college

I cheated on her twice once when i was 18 then again at 23 both nights drunk and regretted it instantly.

Got back together after the first time (obviously) but not after the second time as i felt it was not fair to her and i needed to grow up.

During our relationship the trust fluctuated. she would often hack my facebook and emails. we would get into big arguments where if she got upset enough she would post status' saying Im gay and have come out the closet. a little history on her she was diagnosed with major depressive disorder and that also at times made our relationship challenging as her feelings because i really cared for her became mine. not to mention at that age i really had no idea in understanding what she was going through. she cut herself before and that devastated me. she would often scream out saying she wanted to die. anxiety attacks cursing her mom out it was tough. things she's done to me

- try to run me over

- throw a glass bottle at me

-punch me in the face multiple times

-fake a pregnancy

-send 125 text then break into my house while im asleep

-tell me out of spite that my mom who is sick would die in 5 years

-break things

-hack my accounts

- try to convince me one of my friends is a sociopath

-slept w one of my friends

 

im no saint either i cheated on her and betrayed her.

i believed we really loved one another but through the process of growing and it being our first relationship mistakes were made.

after school we broke up agreeing we both need to grow and hopefully we can find a way back to each other. we would talk all he time throughout our relationship about kids and marriage one day and soulmates and so forth we really had an intrinsic understanding of one another something i havent felt before, shes really a sweet girl. 2 years later after NC in intervals of about 5 months but throughout this time she would send me quotes about soulmates and told me she became really superstitious walking the long way home shutting the lights 5 times and praying and hoping i would come back into her life but i just wasn't ready my heart hadn't healed and my mind needed to grow i didnt tell her that because i didnt want to string her along thats not fair. i found out she had a boyfriend 5 months ago but didnt freak until 5 months later im on fb and i see pictures of them. i freaked sent her a letter and mom flowers. She replied saying she is building a life with this new guy and they've been dating for 6 months that i should leave her be, i have. what do i do? im having a bit of a hard time.

[hestheone66]

I really feel for you but please realise a) your cheating did not cause her crazy behaviour, it may have been your way to cope b) remember she blamed her mother for fatgers death she was unstable before she met you and altough her fathers death was obviously devastating, did not fundamentally make her as crazy as she is..thats likely to be genetic predisposition for serious mental illness. You mentioned a time when she was going to get professional help..did she?

I would recommend you see a counsellor,as you admitted using women to prop up self esteem.. However when u are in abusive relationship, this plummetibg self esteem is inevitable,, and makes you vulnerable to further abuse as you can see that you deserve better..but you definitely do..

[loversquarrel]

Been with a girl like this. Ups and downs, great when its good, really bad when its bad. She did alot of the same things your gf did. She even lied about having cancer....effed me up a ton. It felt horrible leaving her because like you I felt an attachment with her. It was really painful but I just couldn't trust her and I hit a point where I had to respect myself. During a break, she had been with another man within a weeks time. I had taken her back but it never felt right after that. I had to respect myself before I respected anybody else, and you need to do that as well. Respect yourself and then find someone you can respect.

[Augustus64]

It definitely feels horrible. Lying about cancer? wow. The pregnancy messed me up bad but cancer that is just cruel bro. Was your girl like mine diagnosed with some instability? I find myself throughout the day thinking about all the good times we had and longing for them again, idealizing her. Not to mention the things i could have done differently (guilt tripping). I always held out hope that we would reconcile and get it right just have only the good times but maybe its better this way. I often think that maybe she wasn't "it" but rather just a lesson a bridge we both had to cross to get to better things, Conflicted. one thing thats clear to me is what shall be, shall be but i just really don't want to feel like crap anymore. How did you heal? become indifferent? and do you think these relationships are true love gone awry? or some emotional attachment dependency that just masquerades as the real thing?

[Augustus64]

I really feel for you but please realise a) your cheating did not cause her crazy behaviour, it may have been your way to cope b) remember she blamed her mother for fatgers death she was unstable before she met you and altough her fathers death was obviously devastating, did not fundamentally make her as crazy as she is..thats likely to be genetic predisposition for serious mental illness. You mentioned a time when she was going to get professional help..did she?

I would recommend you see a counsellor,as you admitted using women to prop up self esteem.. However when u are in abusive relationship, this plummetibg self esteem is inevitable,, and makes you vulnerable to further abuse as you can see that you deserve better..but you definitely do..

Thank you so much!! Your post helped me find some peace. all of these YEARS i thought that when i cheated on her that event caused her to go crazy and lash out at me with such vengeance like she has at times over the years. I remember early on in the relationship she would inexplicably get road rage and drive like she wanted to kill herself and everyone in the car not to mention the fights with her mom were brutal. Id have to console her mom as she would curse at her and make her cry. big red flag i missed. During that relationship i really didn't see that the relationship was making me feel so insecure it was as if her feelings became mine her sadness become my own. we had some good times but it wasn't a mature healthy relationship it was too codependent with many negative emotions influx. She did however after a while see a counsellor that she built trust in and they prescribed medication for her to take, which i would see her take when we were together so she was trying. then we broke up and she faked a pregnancy and it was a roller coaster again. since the relationship ended tho i have found myself and become much more secure in who i am that i really don't feel the need to be getting around anymore to prop myself up. Thanks again

[Downtown]

Im still having trouble attaching the behavioral pattern to come to the correct conclusion for what it was my ex gf had. [Your 12/15 post.]

Augustus, I agree with Phantom that you are describing an emotionally unstable woman. Hence, if she does have strong traits of a personality disorder, it would be BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Of the ten PDs listed in the APA's diagnostic manual, BPD is the only one in which instability is a defining trait. Moreover, the behaviors you describe -- verbal abuse, self harm like cutting, temper tantrums, irrational anger, inability to trust, irrational jealousy, very controlling, emotional immaturity, lack of impulse control, strong sense of entitlement, and emotional instability -- are classic traits of BPD, which my exW has.

 

Of course, you cannot determine whether your exGF's BPD traits are so severe that they meet 100% of the diagnostic guidelines for having full-blown BPD. Only professionals can make a diagnosis. You nonetheless are capable of spotting the red flags for BPD. There is nothing subtle about strong occurrences of traits such as always being "The Victim," verbal abuse, and temper tantrums.

 

I caution that every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all of the BPD traits -- albeit at a low level if the person is healthy. This is why BPD is said to be a "spectrum disorder," which means everyone has the traits to some degree. At issue, then, is not whether your exGF exhibits these traits. Of course she does. We all do.

 

Rather, at issue is whether she has most of these traits at a strong and persistent level. Not having met her, I cannot know the answer to that question. I nonetheless believe you are capable of spotting any red flags that exist if you take time to learn the warning signs. Being able to spot these signs is important because, until you are able to do so, you are at great risk of leaving her only to run right into the arms of another woman just like her.

She scared me once when i went to see her and she had cut herself, had the bandaids on her left arm.

Cutting and other self harm is strongly associated with BPD. A recent hospital study (pub. 2004), for example, found that half of the self harmers had BPD. It concluded:

The majority of those who self-mutilate are women with borderline personality disorder. This complex, maladaptive behavior is used by clients as a means of self-preservation and emotion regulation, and is often associated with childhood trauma.

See

Understanding those who se... [J Psychosoc Nurs Ment Health Serv. 2004] - PubMed - NCBI

.

Everything was absolutely perfect, her and i fit together unlike anything I've ever experienced before it was absolute bliss being with her.... We called each other soulmates.

If your exGF has strong BPD traits, that is exactly how the courtship period should have felt. Because BPDers have very fragile egos and little sense of a self image, they typically attach themselves to someone with a strong personality that they can emulate. This mirroring of the best aspects of your personality is done so perfectly that both of you will be convinced you've met your "soul mate." Importantly, this mirroring is NOT done to deceive and manipulate you. Rather, it is done because the BPDer has no idea how to do otherwise. She's been doing that mirroring since early childhood as a way to fit in and be loved. Lacking a strong self image, she relies on someone else's strong personality to ground and center her. Moreover, she likely does not realize that other people do not think this way.

Her relationship with her mom was probably the worst thing id ever seen. She would curse and shout at her mom for the littlest thing. it was shocking!

BPDers generally report having had a very bad childhood. A recent study (pub. 2008) found that 70% of BPDers report having been abused or abandoned in childhood.

She had a brother that was adopted that sexually abused her.

Most abused children grow up without developing BPD. Such abuse, however, greatly raises the risk for doing so. Indeed, the worst type of abuse, in this regard, is sexual abuse during childhood. It is strongly associated with BPD. See, e.g., The Relationship Between Child Abuse and Borderline Personality Disorder.

She had been diagnosed w ptsd she was suffering from depression badly.

With female BPDers, 80% suffer a lifetime mood disorder such as depression or bipolar and 47% suffer lifetime PTSD. These are the results of a BPD study that did testing and face-to-face assessments of nearly 35,000 American adults. See Table 3 at Prevalence, Correlates, Disability, and Comorbidity of DSM-IV Borderline Personality Disorder: Results from the Wave 2 National Epidemiologic Survey on Alcohol and Related Conditions.

Her moods would be all over the place.... Then at the flip of the switch she would be again the most awesome precious little thing i ever seen.

When mood changes are a lifetime problem (starting in the teens), the two common causes are bipolar and BPD. Because bipolar changes arise from body chemistry changes, they typically take two weeks to develop and last for several weeks. "Rapid cycling" in bipolar means that at least 4 changes occur in a year. Although very rapid cycling is possible, it is very uncommon. Hence, the event-triggered changes you describe -- which occur in seconds and usually last five hours -- are characteristic of BPD mood changes. If you are interested, I describe 12 differences I've seen between behaviors in BPDers (e.g., my exW) and bipolar sufferers (e.g., my foster son) at http://www.loveshack.org/forums/mind-body-soul/self-improvement-personal-well-being/340022-borderline-personality-disorder-17.html#post4754080.

I'd like to know if she ever loved me? is/ was capable of love? [Your 12/15 post.]

If your exGF actually has strong BPD traits, her emotional development likely is frozen at the level of a four year old. Your question, then, is the equivalent of asking whether a young child is capable of loving. As any parent on this forum will tell you, the answer is "yes." The child is capable of loving, albeit in a very immature manner.

 

That love will often be totally hidden, however. A child will adore you while you are bringing out the toys but will flip, in seconds, to hating daddy when he takes one toy away. This primitive ego defense, which we all used 24/7 in early childhood -- and which most of us relied heavily on again in our early teens -- is called "splitting."

Whenever my ex gf at the time found out who the girl was she would find her fb and absolutely destroy her for days just call the girl a hor, a bitch a cunt anything and .... she would be brutal.

This is another example of "splitting," which is most evident in black-white thinking toward others. It occurs frequently in BPDers (i.e., those having strong traits) because, usually due to childhood trauma, the BPDer never was able to develop an integrated sense of who she is. She was unable to integrate the good and bad aspects of her personality. Consequently, she never was able to reach that point in childhood where she realized that she was a "grey person," i.e., an essentially good person who occasionally does bad things.

 

This is why a BPDer categorizes everyone (including herself) as "all good" or "all bad." And she will recategorize someone -- in only ten seconds -- from one polar extreme to the other based solely on minor comment or infraction, as apparently happened when she found out that the other girl was dating you. In this way, BPDers will shoehorn everyone into a black or white box so she knows how to deal with them. She does this because she is very intolerant of ambiguities, strong mixed feelings, dualities, uncertainties, and other grey aspects of interpersonal relationships.

 

Significantly, when a BPDer is "splitting you black," she perceives you (or your current GF) to be Hitler incarnate -- and will treat you accordingly. Hence, BPDers generally are so mean and vindictive because they often do splitting, not because they are bad people or have low morals.

 

If that all-or-nothing thinking seems strange for an adult woman, please keep in mind that we ALL continue to do splitting occasionally all the way through our adulthood. It occurs every time we experience intense feelings, as when we become very infatuated or very angry. Of course, by the time we are in high school, we've learned that our judgment goes out the window whenever we have intense feelings. This is why we try to wait one or two years before buying the ring and try to wait until we have time to cool down before speaking.

I was the one person she trusted and i ****ed up but i was ****ed up man.

If your exGF has strong BPD traits, the only time she was able to trust you for an extended period was during the roughly 6-month infatuation period, at which time her two fears were held at bay by her infatuation. As soon as the infatuation evaporates, a BPDer is incapable of trusting you for any extended period -- no matter how perfectly you behave. Until she learns how to trust herself, she will be incapable of trusting others. Hence, if she is a BPDer, the trust was going to be very short lived, with or without the cheating you did.

She was very insecure before me and i know my cheating made it worse.

Well, it certainly did not help things. As I said, however, the trust was going to disappear, and the insecurity was going to return full force, no matter what you did -- if she is a BPDer.

Theres that piece of me that thinks she's all better now and we could do it the right way and I'm missing out.

Yes, I know the feeling. Indeed, any man who has lived with a BPDer knows that feeling all too well. Letting go of a BPDer can be so difficult because, while she is splitting you white, the experience of being the savior -- i.e., the knight on a white horse -- that it can be quite an adjustment to "settle for" an emotionally stable, available woman, who won't start off the R/S with all the fireworks and intense passion. It is no accident that two of the world's most beloved women -- Marilyn Monroe and Princess Diana -- had full blown BPD, if their biographers are correct.

 

Hence, if you are still struggling with that "piece of me," I suggest you read my description of what it's like to live with a BPDer. It starts in Rebel's thread at http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/separation-divorce/275289-crazy-i-think-but-i-love-her-anyway#post3398735. If that description rings some bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you. Take care, Augustus.

[Haydn]

Downtown has helped me so much over the last 5 months. Please read what he has to say. Haydn

 

 

Augustus, I agree with Phantom that you are describing an emotionally unstable woman. Hence, if she does have strong traits of a personality disorder, it would be BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Of the ten PDs listed in the APA's diagnostic manual, BPD is the only one in which instability is a defining trait. Moreover, the behaviors you describe -- verbal abuse, self harm like cutting, temper tantrums, irrational anger, inability to trust, irrational jealousy, very controlling, emotional immaturity, lack of impulse control, strong sense of entitlement, and emotional instability -- are classic traits of BPD, which my exW has.

 

Of course, you cannot determine whether your exGF's BPD traits are so severe that they meet 100% of the diagnostic guidelines for having full-blown BPD. Only professionals can make a diagnosis. You nonetheless are capable of spotting the red flags for BPD. There is nothing subtle about strong occurrences of traits such as always being "The Victim," verbal abuse, and temper tantrums.

 

I caution that every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all of the BPD traits -- albeit at a low level if the person is healthy. This is why BPD is said to be a "spectrum disorder," which means everyone has the traits to some degree. At issue, then, is not whether your exGF exhibits these traits. Of course she does. We all do.

 

Rather, at issue is whether she has most of these traits at a strong and persistent level. Not having met her, I cannot know the answer to that question. I nonetheless believe you are capable of spotting any red flags that exist if you take time to learn the warning signs. Being able to spot these signs is important because, until you are able to do so, you are at great risk of leaving her only to run right into the arms of another woman just like her.Cutting and other self harm is strongly associated with BPD. A recent hospital study (pub. 2004), for example, found that half of the self harmers had BPD. It concluded:

The majority of those who self-mutilate are women with borderline personality disorder. This complex, maladaptive behavior is used by clients as a means of self-preservation and emotion regulation, and is often associated with childhood trauma.

See

Understanding those who se... [J Psychosoc Nurs Ment Health Serv. 2004] - PubMed - NCBI

.

If your exGF has strong BPD traits, that is exactly how the courtship period should have felt. Because BPDers have very fragile egos and little sense of a self image, they typically attach themselves to someone with a strong personality that they can emulate. This mirroring of the best aspects of your personality is done so perfectly that both of you will be convinced you've met your "soul mate." Importantly, this mirroring is NOT done to deceive and manipulate you. Rather, it is done because the BPDer has no idea how to do otherwise. She's been doing that mirroring since early childhood as a way to fit in and be loved. Lacking a strong self image, she relies on someone else's strong personality to ground and center her. Moreover, she likely does not realize that other people do not think this way.BPDers generally report having had a very bad childhood. A recent study (pub. 2008) found that 70% of BPDers report having been abused or abandoned in childhood.Most abused children grow up without developing BPD. Such abuse, however, greatly raises the risk for doing so. Indeed, the worst type of abuse, in this regard, is sexual abuse during childhood. It is strongly associated with BPD. See, e.g., The Relationship Between Child Abuse and Borderline Personality Disorder.With female BPDers, 80% suffer a lifetime mood disorder such as depression or bipolar and 47% suffer lifetime PTSD. These are the results of a BPD study that did testing and face-to-face assessments of nearly 35,000 American adults. See Table 3 at Prevalence, Correlates, Disability, and Comorbidity of DSM-IV Borderline Personality Disorder: Results from the Wave 2 National Epidemiologic Survey on Alcohol and Related Conditions.When mood changes are a lifetime problem (starting in the teens), the two common causes are bipolar and BPD. Because bipolar changes arise from body chemistry changes, they typically take two weeks to develop and last for several weeks. "Rapid cycling" in bipolar means that at least 4 changes occur in a year. Although very rapid cycling is possible, it is very uncommon. Hence, the event-triggered changes you describe -- which occur in seconds and usually last five hours -- are characteristic of BPD mood changes. If you are interested, I describe 12 differences I've seen between behaviors in BPDers (e.g., my exW) and bipolar sufferers (e.g., my foster son) at http://www.loveshack.org/forums/mind-body-soul/self-improvement-personal-well-being/340022-borderline-personality-disorder-17.html#post4754080.If your exGF actually has strong BPD traits, her emotional development likely is frozen at the level of a four year old. Your question, then, is the equivalent of asking whether a young child is capable of loving. As any parent on this forum will tell you, the answer is "yes." The child is capable of loving, albeit in a very immature manner.

 

That love will often be totally hidden, however. A child will adore you while you are bringing out the toys but will flip, in seconds, to hating daddy when he takes one toy away. This primitive ego defense, which we all used 24/7 in early childhood -- and which most of us relied heavily on again in our early teens -- is called "splitting."This is another example of "splitting," which is most evident in black-white thinking toward others. It occurs frequently in BPDers (i.e., those having strong traits) because, usually due to childhood trauma, the BPDer never was able to develop an integrated sense of who she is. She was unable to integrate the good and bad aspects of her personality. Consequently, she never was able to reach that point in childhood where she realized that she was a "grey person," i.e., an essentially good person who occasionally does bad things.

 

This is why a BPDer categorizes everyone (including herself) as "all good" or "all bad." And she will recategorize someone -- in only ten seconds -- from one polar extreme to the other based solely on minor comment or infraction, as apparently happened when she found out that the other girl was dating you. In this way, BPDers will shoehorn everyone into a black or white box so she knows how to deal with them. She does this because she is very intolerant of ambiguities, strong mixed feelings, dualities, uncertainties, and other grey aspects of interpersonal relationships.

 

Significantly, when a BPDer is "splitting you black," she perceives you (or your current GF) to be Hitler incarnate -- and will treat you accordingly. Hence, BPDers generally are so mean and vindictive because they often do splitting, not because they are bad people or have low morals.

 

If that all-or-nothing thinking seems strange for an adult woman, please keep in mind that we ALL continue to do splitting occasionally all the way through our adulthood. It occurs every time we experience intense feelings, as when we become very infatuated or very angry. Of course, by the time we are in high school, we've learned that our judgment goes out the window whenever we have intense feelings. This is why we try to wait one or two years before buying the ring and try to wait until we have time to cool down before speaking.If your exGF has strong BPD traits, the only time she was able to trust you for an extended period was during the roughly 6-month infatuation period, at which time her two fears were held at bay by her infatuation. As soon as the infatuation evaporates, a BPDer is incapable of trusting you for any extended period -- no matter how perfectly you behave. Until she learns how to trust herself, she will be incapable of trusting others. Hence, if she is a BPDer, the trust was going to be very short lived, with or without the cheating you did.Well, it certainly did not help things. As I said, however, the trust was going to disappear, and the insecurity was going to return full force, no matter what you did -- if she is a BPDer.Yes, I know the feeling. Indeed, any man who has lived with a BPDer knows that feeling all too well. Letting go of a BPDer can be so difficult because, while she is splitting you white, the experience of being the savior -- i.e., the knight on a white horse -- that it can be quite an adjustment to "settle for" an emotionally stable, available woman, who won't start off the R/S with all the fireworks and intense passion. It is no accident that two of the world's most beloved women -- Marilyn Monroe and Princess Diana -- had full blown BPD, if their biographers are correct.

 

Hence, if you are still struggling with that "piece of me," I suggest you read my description of what it's like to live with a BPDer. It starts in Rebel's thread at http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/separation-divorce/275289-crazy-i-think-but-i-love-her-anyway#post3398735. If that description rings some bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you. Take care, Augustus.

[Augustus64]

Downtown wow! your a Godsend right now man i have so many questions.

 

Ok, it took her about two years into our relationship but she finally began to seek professional help the psychiatrist prescribed Geodon she hid it from me but i found the bottle as it slipped out of her purse. Are you familiar with this drug?

 

Also when she would get really angry it seemed that their was no filter or line she wouldn't cross. my mom who is a diabetic about 6mnths post BU the final time we BU when she saw i wasnt coming back she told me She realistically had five years to live because she was fat and over weight. is this lack of restraint BPD? i use to think it was because she was really hurting and due to it being unbearable she head to let it out some how. She also at this time falsely tried to make me believe she was pregnant.

 

 

we broke up sophomore year because i just couldn't take being the anchor anymore i was 19 and it got too much to deal with. honestly it was points in the relationship where i began to experience suicidal thoughts something i never pondered before since i am and have always been a positive happy person i had a wonderful childhood and have excellent parents. was that in relation to the relationship? also when we were on breaks i would sleep around w various women just to make my self feel better momentarily she would hear about this and begin to compare herself to these women thinking she was inferior or something, at the time i didn't understand why i was doing it so i never explained it to her. no longer do so. during one of these breaks she showed up to a bar i was at knowing id be there when i was leaving as i did not want to have another public spat she nudged me and a friend down a flight of steps. Is physical harm apart of BPD? She also reached for a set of steak knives i had in my dorm room drawer during a break up, luckily something told me to move the knives before breaking up with her.

 

 

2 years after breaking up and she still would hack into my fb and emails to keep tabs on me. shes in a relationship now but 2 weeks before beginning the relationship she sent an ominous note addressed to my parents unnamed and with no return address saying "your son hacks computers and cell phones please make him stop" i never have done such things and never will that was very bizarre and i just dont understand that. what is that?

 

6 months into her relationship and i began to miss her idealizing her and the good times so i wrote her a letter trying to win her back. she said she is starting a life w this new guy that he had to over come a very high guard and that she unconditionally trusts him, is this possible? or infatuation? this girl said she would have gotten on one knee and proposed to me now shes splitting be black? i just dont get it.

 

for years what attracted me was being that knight in shining honor that anchor to help her. the push pull thing was real, the manipulation was real to this day when i cheated on her, which she knows i regret she paints herself the victim to all of her friends never mentioning to them the HELL she put me through at times. as intense as it was thats really not love and not healthy. I want to learn everything i can from you downtown so i can move on, understand and never go through this again. thanks for your time.

[Augustus64]

One more thing i remembered even though this relationship was super toxic she would have never broke it off with me. i was the one that always had to walk away. is this because she "Loved me too much" or "she loved me more than she loved herself" as she would often say? abandonment issues?

[Downtown]

I began to experience suicidal thoughts something i never pondered before since i am and have always been a positive happy person i had a wonderful childhood and have excellent parents. Was that in relation to the relationship?

Probably so, if she has strong BPD traits. Living with a BPDer -- a person who can flip from adoring you to hating you in ten seconds -- is so disorienting and confusing that it is common for abused partners to feel like they are losing their minds. Indeed, of the 157 mental disorders listed in the APA's diagnostic manual, BPD is the one most notorious for making the abused spouses feel like they may be going crazy.

The psychiatrist prescribed Geodon she hid it from me but i found the bottle as it slipped out of her purse. Are you familiar with this drug?

Drugs are not used to treat BPD itself because no drug can make a dent in BPD, which is a thought disorder. Yet, because most BPDers also suffer from two or three clinical disorders (e.g., PTSD, anxiety, and depression), it is common for a psychologist to refer a BPDer to a psychiatrist who can prescribe meds to treat those co-occurring disorders.

 

As to Geodon, it was approved by the FDA for treating schizophrenia but is routinely used "off label" for treatment of bipolar disorder to reduce mania. Hence, if your exGF really does have strong BPD traits, one possibility is that the psychiatrist was trying to treat bipolar disorder. I say this because 40% of BPDers also have a co-occurring bipolar disorder. Another possibility is that the doctor mistook BPD mood changes for bipolar moodiness, a mistake that is easy to make when you only see the patient for 50 minutes a week. It may take a doctor two years to see the dysfunctional behaviors you saw all week long.

Is this lack of restraint BPD?

Yes, impulsiveness is one of the nine defining traits of BPD. The APA's diagnostic manual describes that trait as "Impulsive and often dangerous behaviors, such as spending sprees, unsafe sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, and binge eating." The NIMH lists all nine of these basic traits at NIMH · Borderline Personality Disorder. Indeed, there are hundreds of hospitals and mental health centers that are listing these nine BPD traits on their websites in an effort to educate the lay public about the warning signs.

She also at this time falsely tried to make me believe she was pregnant.

Generally, BPDers are far too reactive to whatever is going on at the moment to be very good at manipulation or lying. My experience, however, is that BPDers will lie if they feel you have them cornered -- or if they are frantically trying to prevent you from abandoning them. Even so, most of the outrageous allegations coming out of a BPDer's mouth likely are subconscious projections that, at a conscious level, the BPDer genuinely believes is true. And, a week later when she is claiming exactly the opposite, she likely believes THAT is true also.

 

This is not to say, however, that you won't ever meet a BPDer who is very manipulating and a frequent liar. I'm only saying that such extensive manipulation and lying likely is NOT due to the BPD but, rather, to co-occurring PDs such as narcissism or sociopathy. Most BPDers have at least one other PD in addition to the BPD itself.

She nudged me and a friend down a flight of steps. Is physical harm a part of BPD?

I've never seen any statistics on it but I believe nearly all BPDers are verbally abusive and less than half of them are physically abusive. And, when studies have focused only on those people who physically abuse their spouses, a strong association has been found between spousal battering and BPD. A 1993 Canadian hospital study, for example, found that about half of male spousal batterers have full-blown BPD. See Roger Melton's summary of those results at Romeo's Bleeding - When Mr. Right Turns Out To Be Mr. Wrong -- Health & Wellness -- Sott.net.

She sent an ominous note addressed to my parents unnamed and with no return address saying "your son hacks computers and cell phones please make him stop" ... i just dont understand that. what is that?

As I mentioned earlier, this childish, vindictive behavior is an example of black-white thinking combined with a lack of impulse control.

I never have done such things and never will that was very bizarre.

On the contrary, you've "done such things" many times. It is perfectly normal in all of us under certain conditions. It seems "bizarre" in your exGF only because one does not expect to see such childish behavior in a person having the intelligence, education, and body strength of a full grown woman.

 

You often did such outrageous things during early childhood and you probably started doing them again for a couple of years right after puberty pushed your hormone levels off the chart. That's why you likely are still embarrassed to recall some of the awful things you said to your parents or siblings during your early teens. Moreover, you likely will repeat such inappropriate behavior at various points in your adult life. The human condition is that, whenever we experience very intense feelings, our judgment goes out the window.

 

As I said earlier, the best you can do under those circumstances is to keep your mouth shut, and your fingers off the keys, until you have a chance to cool down. This distortion of our perception of others' intentions is caused not only by intense anger but also by intense infatuation -- which is why we guys all try to wait a year or two before buying the ring.

She said she is starting a life w this new guy that he had to over come a very high guard and that she unconditionally trusts him, is this possible? or infatuation?

I agree with you that, if she is a BPDer, this unconditional trusting is possible. As I mentioned above, it can happen (typically for 4 to 6 months) during the infatuation period, at which time the infatuation holds her two fears at bay. It therefore doesn't last long.

This girl said she would have gotten on one knee and proposed to me now shes splitting be black? i just dont get it.

Do you remember the time that you were walking in a crosswalk and suddenly looked up to see a truck bearing down on you? Well, at that moment, your mind "split off" the higher level thinking from your conscious mind. That is, your ability to do abstract thinking and analysis was put out of touch of your conscious mind.

 

At that moment, then, you were capable of only thinking "jump left" or "jump right." In this way, "splitting" (aka, black-white thinking) is a primitive defense that is essential to our survival -- but can be disastrous when applied to our relationships with loved ones.

 

As I said earlier, whenever we are suddenly startled or whenever we experience intense feelings, our ability to do logical thinking goes out the window. This is why, whenever you are angry with someone, your judgment of him is colored and distorted by those strong emotions. Well, BPDers are like that too -- just more so.

 

Indeed, they are so uncomfortable when experiencing mixed feelings and ambiguities that they "split off" those conflicting feelings, putting them out of reach of their conscious minds. For this reason, a BPDer is adoring you while splitting you white and disliking (maybe even hating) you while splitting you black.

 

If that splitting seems bizarre to you, please remember that -- for your own protection -- your brain is hard wired to instantly shift into splitting mode whenever you are seriously threatened or startled. Moreover, even when we are not really threatened, entire nations of people can be persuaded to do B-W thinking by smooth talking politicians who blame unemployment and hard times on one segment of the population. In this way, Hitler convinced most Germans that the Jews were "all bad" and responsible for the oppressive poverty. The reality is that, whenever we feel threatened, our judgment goes out the window and -- wanting to find a solution as simple as jumping left or right -- we start perceiving of other people as black or white.

[Downtown]

Even though this relationship was super toxic she would have never broke it off with me. i was the one that always had to walk away. is this because she "Loved me too much" or "she loved me more than she loved herself" as she would often say?

No, not if she has strong BPD traits. If so, she was only capable of loving you in the immature way that a young child loves her parents, where "I love you" largely means "I desperately need you to love me." Although it constitutes "love," it falls far short of the mature love required for sustaining mature relationships.

 

I also disagree with your view that "she would have never broke it off with me." If she is a BPDer, her resentment of your failure to make her happy would grow each year as the years go by. At the same time, she likely would become increasingly fearful of abandonment as she saw her body aging -- to the point that the fear becomes extremely painful. It therefore is common for BPDers to be wholly dependent on their partners for many years and then, to the amazement of the partners, to suddenly walk away about 12 to 15 years into the relationship.

 

That's what my BPDer exW did to me after 15 years. By "walk away" I mean she had me arrested on a bogus charge and thrown into jail for three days, during which time she obtained a R/O (which courts hand out to women like candy) barring me from returning to my own home for 18 months.

[Augustus64]

No, not if she has strong BPD traits. If so, she was only capable of loving you in the immature way that a young child loves her parents, where "I love you" largely means "I desperately need you to love me." Although it constitutes "love," it falls far short of the mature love required for sustaining mature relationships.

 

I also disagree with your view that "she would have never broke it off with me." If she is a BPDer, her resentment of your failure to make her happy would grow each year as the years go by. At the same time, she likely would become increasingly fearful of abandonment as she saw her body aging -- to the point that the fear becomes extremely painful. It therefore is common for BPDers to be wholly dependent on their partners for many years and then, to the amazement of the partners, to suddenly walk away about 12 to 15 years into the relationship.

 

That's what my BPDer exW did to me after 15 years. By "walk away" I mean she had me arrested on a bogus charge and thrown into jail for three days, during which time she obtained a R/O (which courts hand out to women like candy) barring me from returning to my own home for 18 months.

Downtown the fear of abandonment as a women ages in a relationship isn't that a common response as they may fear their partner becoming less attracted to them? GIGS?

 

I agree with you on your assessment of what Love meant in our relationship it did feel as if she just desperately needed me to love her looking back on it She would do absolutely everything for me Laundry, cook, clean, sex pretty much whenever or wherever i wanted it and would make great effort into impressing all those close to me. people describe her as having a bubbly, warm personality very engaging is this because she needs to be liked by everyone? she doesn't have much family so she gives above and beyond for her friends . even during the courting phase when we weren't together officially she would clean my room, bring me food and just be everything a man could ask for. but it was all i guess an act as i was someone that showed true interest in her as a person and took the time to get to know her. it makes me feel like i was a target, a pawn even in facilitating some happiness in her life and validation. when we got together she wanted to spend every moment with me smothered me at times would text me and call incessantly through out the day until i just couldn't take it anymore and had to have her friend explain it to her that she needs to stop. she was very needy and clingy.

 

So this new guy is he the new me in her cycle? which is why she was detached and cold when i spoke to her getting her "love" someplace else? her last text to me was in a response to me conveying my disappointment that all those nights when we were in bed professing soulmate that it was all lie. she says "life happens and people experience things that change their perception you just haven't realized it yet" 5 yr intense relationship. is it possible someone like her can mean that? or is she just wanting me to leave her alone?

 

i feel like im now discovering who the hell it was i was dating. thanks downtown.

[Downtown]

Downtown the fear of abandonment as a women ages in a relationship isn't that a common response as they may fear their partner becoming less attracted to them?

Yes, the fear of abandonment is a common response in all people. So are all the other BPD traits. This is why BPD is said to be a "spectrum disorder," which means that everyone has all the traits to some degree. Indeed, it is because we all all so familiar with these basic human behaviors that we are able to recognize the warning signs so easily in other people. BPDers, then, differ from the rest of us only in degree, not in kind.

I agree with you on your assessment of what Love meant in our relationship it did feel as if she just desperately needed me to love her.

To clarify, I said that the immature love seen in young children and BPDers "largely" means that. But it is not limited to that. My experience is that, if your exGF is a BPDer, she likely did love you, albeit in an immature manner.

Even during the courting phase when we weren't together officially she would clean my room, bring me food and just be everything a man could ask for. but it was all i guess an act....it makes me feel like i was a target, a pawn.

No, if she is a BPDer, it was not all just "an act." IMO, much of what is written online about BPDers confuses BPDers with sociopaths and narcissists. Shari Schreiber, for example, has written several blogs describing BPDers as spider-like people who lay traps and spin webs to ensnare a partner, who is then sucked dry and tossed aside.

 

Granted, a significant portion of BPDers behave just like that. This behavior, however, has nothing to do with their BPD traits. Rather, it is due to the BPDer also having another co-occurring personality disorder such as narcissism or sociopathy. Hence, if your exGF suffers only from strong BPD traits, she likely loved you -- something that narcissists and sociopaths are incapable of doing.

When we got together she wanted to spend every moment with me smothered me at times would text me and call incessantly through out the day until i just couldn't take it anymore and had to have her friend explain it to her that she needs to stop. she was very needy and clingy.

Yes, BPDers tend to be clingy and needy because, as I noted earlier, they have very little sense of who they are and have virtually no personal boundaries. They therefore do not know where "they" leave off and "you" begin. Similarly, they don't know where "their problems" leave off and "your problems" begin. Importantly, this means that a BPDer feels a strong desire to be around a strong personality who will center and ground her. It does NOT mean that she will be very manipulative and only try to use you. On the contrary, when the BPDer is splitting you white, she likely will treat you better than you've ever been treated before. This is one reason that a R/S with a BPDer has such an addictive quality, making it very difficult to walk away and forgo all the good times.

So this new guy is the new me in her cycle?

Yes, if she is a BPDer. But this does not necessarily mean she will not return to you. BPDers have such a great fear of abandonment and being alone that they often will "triangulate," playing one partner off against the other to make it clear that they are very desirable. Indeed, they may even do this with their own children. My exW, for example, was so jealous of the time and affection I bestowed on her five children that she would sometimes try to play us off against one another to undermine the close relationship I had with them.

She says "life happens and people experience things that change their perception you just haven't realized it yet" 5 yr intense relationship. is it possible someone like her can mean that? or is she just wanting me to leave her alone?

Well, anything is possible. But, if she is a BPDer, why does it matter WHAT she means? Because BPDers are unstable, anything they mean today will be washed aside in a few weeks by the next tide of emotions flooding their minds.

[Augustus64]

How did you summon the strength to let go of your ex wife?

 

I mean this woman has done things to me that no self respecting man could look the other way for, but yet i have. Even now if she came back running i'd be reluctant but i think id embrace her. It's just those damn good times. Everything you said was spot on downtown. The mirroring, she would take interest in all the things i liked. I was a lakers fan she became a die hard laker fan Im a jay-z fan, she's a jay-z fan. she would even try to use my city slang when we spoke. now as i understand from your thesis she's doing the same exact thing with another dude. thats so mind blowing to me that its a pattern and if w him it doesn't work out so on and so forth. I think i finally know her now. You've been nothing short of awesome man i really appreciate you taking the time to help me out. Your the man Downtown.

[Haydn]

I am with you on all of this. if you can find my thread it echos a bit. My ex had such serious problems but it was being addicted to something. I kept taking it. Downtown was a god send quite frankly. You will get through this. You were in an unequal relationship like me. We are good guys!

 

 

How did you summon the strength to let go of your ex wife?

 

I mean this woman has done things to me that no self respecting man could look the other way for, but yet i have. Even now if she came back running i'd be reluctant but i think id embrace her. It's just those damn good times. Everything you said was spot on downtown. The mirroring, she would take interest in all the things i liked. I was a lakers fan she became a die hard laker fan Im a jay-z fan, she's a jay-z fan. she would even try to use my city slang when we spoke. now as i understand from your thesis she's doing the same exact thing with another dude. thats so mind blowing to me that its a pattern and if w him it doesn't work out so on and so forth. I think i finally know her now. You've been nothing short of awesome man i really appreciate you taking the time to help me out. Your the man Downtown.

[Augustus64]

I read your thread Hadyn and yes it definitely echos, specifically when you said you were this confident guy then during the relationship you became miserable and had self esteem issues. I was so low for a while i was having suicidal thoughts. i was so so confused it was scary. losing my mind. My ex pushed me down a flight of steps, reached for a knife and wished death on my mom when she was splitting me black so you lucked out there. My young dumb ass just got use to this behavior thinking its just women being crazy and that my cheating caused this nuclear war but na this chick was clinically cray. anyway, i have a question for both you and downtown i've read everything from downtown and did my own research it all checked out. Ive been NC for about 3 weeks now i got this thought in my head about explaining to her in detail and letting her know that i know exactly who she is. EXACTLY.