generalizations about OW/OM

[wanting more]

First of all... I'm very sorry for what you went through. I too have had the misfortune of having not one, but two miscarriages. It's awful and it's even worse when you have to go through it alone. Considering how much pain I was in both times, I can't imagine how you had the strength to get your kids off to school and then go to work and THEN leave. Goodness woman, you must be such a strong person!

 

I think you are right about the generalizations... and others have said that it works both ways... many are also said about the BS.

 

See, part of me comes here to this board because I want so desperately to understand what the OW in my situation must have been thinking and feeling during all of this. I also read the infidelity boards too trying to figure out why my ex chose to do what he did instead of work things out with me.

 

I keep thinking that I almost feel sorry for her, because I know darn well he lied to her just as much as he lied to me. Right now it is very difficult to have any empathy for her because she is in full on bit.ch mode and she is in fact acting like a crazy psycho, and on top of that, I know that she knew full well that he and I were together the entire time she was with him. It's hard to feel sorry for or have empathy for someone who created the situation they are in and helped to cause the destruction of my family. Their actions changed my life forever.

 

I think, given some time, and a change in her behavior towards me,(and mine towards her) I could really come to an understanding of what went on from all perspectives and be able to forgive it and let it go. I think that's the most important part of all of this. Yes, we are humans, but why do we have to act in such despicable ways towards each other? I don't think I'll ever really understand that. I do know that labeling it and making generalizations doesn't work. Each situation is unique but yet there are some common veins through it all too.

 

Thank you. I don't know how I got thru that But I did what I had to do.

 

I, just like you (even though I'm the WS/xOW) read this board along with the infidelity board. I read so I will never forget the hurt I caused my BSO and xMM

 

As an xOW, I really hate what you're going thru. I hate that you have an unstable woman you're dealing with now.

 

I guess some things I hear on here just really strike a nerve. I don't read stories of one BS and assume all BS are the same. Nor WSs. Nor OW/OM.

[AlwaysGrowing]

I'll never understand how a person will say the WS affaired down because they found someone with no morals to have sex with. Where's the WSs morals???

(BTW I also think its stupid when an OW says their AP affaired up)

 

FTR, I never said the comment was made on page 1, I said within the first few replies, Although I don't really know why you went back and found the reply and pointed this out.

 

 

The second page is hardly the first few replies.

 

I thought an AP could also carry the alphabet title of WS.

 

I was clarifying the point that the "affair down" is not viewed as picking up someone at a bar. Just pointing it out. No need to shoot the messenger.

[Journee]

It's ok to trigger from things you read. Words hurt as much as actions sometimes. I think that lots of those generalizations on all ends can come from a desire to either add value to or take value away from a situation. Both approaches just stoke the situation and give it plenty of power and head space.

 

I too read here in this forum to try to gain understanding. The problem with it for me is that there are just TOO many different types of people and situations for me to begin to gauge motives and moral compasses. I used to cringe at the posts from certain MP and AP and really question why there were people like this? Why were there people that aid in someone else's pain. It's not that simple now is it? I once thought it was. While I will likely never think that A's are a good or kind way to treat someone, I no longer see it in black and white.

 

You would think that at almost 30 I would had realized before coming to a message board that people are in so many different stages in marriage. Have married for varied reasons. Come from different cultures or religious backgrounds. Of course it will be a mixed bag of who people really are to the core.

 

It took me really beginning to love myself to not react to certain posts. To not be defensive of (let me be honest here) myself. I would darn near own what was said about a BS as if it were directed toward me. Once I realized that I wasn't going to get the answers I need or desire here, I have been able to let that painful tinge go. I am just going to have to live my life and hold on. Hoping and praying for the best.

 

My curiosity has not faded however. I still have moments after maybe watching a movie with affair scenes or a thread here that hit me in a sore spot. Not out of anger any longer but of confusion. Why do we all hurt one another so much? Just act as a wrecking ball in someone's life just because we can? Not even just with A's but in relating to other flawed humans.

 

Bah, here I am getting all philosophical. It's late and I should head to bed. I just wanted you to know OP that you are not alone in triggering. I hope you come to a place where you no longer hurt.

 

So many times emotions can run high on discussion boards and the hackles are up from jump. Lots of hurting here on these boards. So much that we tend to spread it around

[Got it]

It's ok to trigger from things you read. Words hurt as much as actions sometimes. I think that lots of those generalizations on all ends can come from a desire to either add value to or take value away from a situation. Both approaches just stoke the situation and give it plenty of power and head space.

 

I too read here in this forum to try to gain understanding. The problem with it for me is that there are just TOO many different types of people and situations for me to begin to gauge motives and moral compasses. I used to cringe at the posts from certain MP and AP and really question why there were people like this? Why were there people that aid in someone else's pain. It's not that simple now is it? I once thought it was. While I will likely never think that A's are a good or kind way to treat someone, I no longer see it in black and white.

 

You would think that at almost 30 I would had realized before coming to a message board that people are in so many different stages in marriage. Have married for varied reasons. Come from different cultures or religious backgrounds. Of course it will be a mixed bag of who people really are to the core.

 

It took me really beginning to love myself to not react to certain posts. To not be defensive of (let me be honest here) myself. I would darn near own what was said about a BS as if it were directed toward me. Once I realized that I wasn't going to get the answers I need or desire here, I have been able to let that painful tinge go. I am just going to have to live my life and hold on. Hoping and praying for the best.

 

My curiosity has not faded however. I still have moments after maybe watching a movie with affair scenes or a thread here that hit me in a sore spot. Not out of anger any longer but of confusion. Why do we all hurt one another so much? Just act as a wrecking ball in someone's life just because we can? Not even just with A's but in relating to other flawed humans.

 

Bah, here I am getting all philosophical. It's late and I should head to bed. I just wanted you to know OP that you are not alone in triggering. I hope you come to a place where you no longer hurt.

 

So many times emotions can run high on discussion boards and the hackles are up from jump. Lots of hurting here on these boards. So much that we tend to spread it around

 

I think these are some excellent points and I will say that it is very hard to stay neutral when you are actually apart of the situation. So triggering is going to happen and one needs to look at why they are triggering.

 

This is why I wish this board and the infidelity one was a little more moderated to give people the place to discuss their emotions with more protection. It is understandable to that times we are going to be heavily colored by our situation and project that forward.

 

But, coming from parents in the legal field, it was drummed into me at an early age that the only absolutes are death and taxes and life is full of grey. So I take that stance in everything and try and evaluate based on the specific individuals. Absolutely, trends abound and like any bell curve there will be the outliers and then the largest group in the middle. But one doesn't know if each person they are discussing is an outlier or not. So I assume outlier until shown otherwise.

 

And in regards to morality assessments, and this is probably my WS/OW colors showing, but I think we are a sum of our parts not defined by necessarily one action. So one action does not define someone. I know many people who were OP or WS or BS and they are made up of good and bad features. I know people who were BS turned OP or WS, or OP/WS turned BS. The affair was a part of their life but there is much more to them than just the affair. So evaluating them as good or bad based solely on the affair is too narrow of an evaluation.

 

And tied to that, I have never had much of a desire to judge or label others. I remember that from as early as high school. I was always uncomfortable with labels and since I see us all in glass houses, even those that transgressed against me would not get more of a summation than "I don't like him/her because of . . . " I will write them out of my life. Especially on a sexual level which ends up quickly showing a double standard between the genders with females holding the bag for policing sexual activity.

 

But in summation, there are many roads to Rome and there are many different ways that people need to heal, mourn, work through and assess their specific situation. Hopefully the discussion among the different sides allows for a bigger picture understanding as well as acknowledgement that the answers are not usually found on the pages from an online forum but closer to home.

[BeingMe]

I'll never understand how a person will say the WS affaired down because they found someone with no morals to have sex with. Where's the WSs morals???

(BTW I also think its stupid when an OW says their AP affaired up)

 

I think that usually the BS who say that mean:

 

It's not denying that the WS has done the wrong thing too, but the BS is not comparing themselves to the WS, the BS is looking at the AP and asking themselves, why him/her? The saying is there to help the BS realise that no matter what the AP looks like etc, the BS has kept their moral integrity: it's true and it helps the BS's self esteem. That the AP is not as good as them because the BS would not sleep with a married person. Some BS, though, wrongly, like to take this further because of their hatred of the AP, and talk about looks, give insulting names etc.

[Ruffian1]

I read so I will never forget the hurt I caused my BSO and xMM

 

 

But not xMM wife??

[wanting more]

But not xMM wife??

 

i didnt realize i didnt' have xMM BW

 

 

I don't care about xMM, i meant my BSO and xMM BW

[skywriter]

...and I will admit, I am going to have to google, "skank"...???

[Got it]

I think that usually the BS who say that mean:

 

It's not denying that the WS has done the wrong thing too, but the BS is not comparing themselves to the WS, the BS is looking at the AP and asking themselves, why him/her? The saying is there to help the BS realise that no matter what the AP looks like etc, the BS has kept their moral integrity: it's true and it helps the BS's self esteem. That the AP is not as good as them because the BS would not sleep with a married person. Some BS, though, wrongly, like to take this further because of their hatred of the AP, and talk about looks, give insulting names etc.

 

But it isn't about one person or the other. Isn't it about the WS? I think making the comparison, while understandable is more about comparing each person's 'attractiveness" level. You can include moral integrity, looks, etc. but it all about an assessment of who is "better" based on who the WS seems to choose.

 

And why isn't the BS comparing themselves with the WS? Why not look at "is this person good enough for me" and that I seemed to have "married down" as I seemed to have someone with questionable moral integrity and decided if this is a good enough person for me. Not comparing one's self, like cattle at a stock sale, and will I be picked or not.

[yellowmaverick]

 

And in regards to morality assessments, and this is probably my WS/OW colors

showing, but I think we are a sum of our parts not defined by necessarily one

action. So one action does not define someone. I know many people who were OP or

WS or BS and they are made up of good and bad features. I know people who were

BS turned OP or WS, or OP/WS turned BS. The affair was a part of their life but

there is much more to them than just the affair. So evaluating them as good or

bad based solely on the affair is too narrow of an evaluation.

 

 

I really tried hard to stay out of this thread ...but could not let this one go.

 

Got it - Yes, generally, I agree. A person is the sum of everything about him/her. However, assuming the affair is not a ONS, it is not "one action". My WH's affairs was comprised of hundreds (maybe thousands?) of deceitful lies to me, his children, his friends, his own parents. He fooled ALL of us, and we ALL feel betrayed. We all wonder just who was this person who we thought we knew. His affair undermined and destroyed the very basis of our marriage - honesty, trust, and partnership. IMO, an affair is very character defining and helping 100 old ladies across the street will never change the essence of that character.

[yellowmaverick]

 

And why isn't the BS comparing themselves with the WS? Why not look at "is

this person good enough for me" and that I seemed to have "married down" as I

seemed to have someone with questionable moral integrity and decided if this is

a good enough person for me.

 

Agree. I don't think that my WH affaired down as compared to himself - I think he affaired even. They are very evenly matched as far as values, character, work ethic, ideas about family, etc. than he and I ever were. I told him so when I decided not to R.

 

I don't know if I married "down", but I definitely married someone whose values were not aligned with mine. I was very honest about my values when we dated and have never wavered. He?.... not so much.

[Got it]

I really tried hard to stay out of this thread ...but could not let this one go.

 

Got it - Yes, generally, I agree. A person is the sum of everything about him/her. However, assuming the affair is not a ONS, it is not "one action". My WH's affairs was comprised of hundreds (maybe thousands?) of deceitful lies to me, his children, his friends, his own parents. He fooled ALL of us, and we ALL feel betrayed. We all wonder just who was this person who we thought we knew. His affair undermined and destroyed the very basis of our marriage - honesty, trust, and partnership. IMO, an affair is very character defining and helping 100 old ladies across the street will never change the essence of that character.

 

Okay, that is your opinion and right. But, for myself I know my parents and my mom's affair in juxtaposition of my dad's life long anger management issues. And who I would think has had a greater negative impact on my life. And tying to that, my reflection of my father as "my father as an adult child" and "my father as a minor child" and my summation of him.

 

And my husband's ex wife and her having had her own affair and then becoming a BS.

 

Or a good friend of mine who was a BS many times over, who became an OW. And my opinion of her, her as a wife, and her as a person.

 

I think that there are many factors that, for me, do play a factor that the one event, even with other actions/decisions tied to it, are not the be all and end all necessarily of my summation of them.

 

I understand what you are saying, and the layers and ripple effect from the affair. But, again, I believe that there is more at play than just that though that should be taken into account. And this may vary by person, your role with the person, etc.

[Got it]

Agree. I don't think that my WH affaired down as compared to himself - I think he affaired even. They are very evenly matched as far as values, character, work ethic, ideas about family, etc. than he and I ever were. I told him so when I decided not to R.

 

I don't know if I married "down", but I definitely married someone whose values were not aligned with mine. I was very honest about my values when we dated and have never wavered. He?.... not so much.

 

But isn't this marrying down? I am not saying it is done intentionally but with full knowledge isn't that someone "not worthy" when all the cards are on the table?

 

Again, other aspects would play a factor and this opinion may change over time, may be positively or negatively impacted by other factors, etc. but at the crux of it, if one is assuming fidelity as a high priority (which I would assume by most if not all not involved in open relationships) this would be a "relationship down".

[Ruffian1]

(He is married but only on paper).

 

Then he should tell his BS this. I am sure his wife would dispute that. Did she have children with this man?

 

 

That is all I want for now. After nearly 6 years every day seeing each other more than once a day being with someone like that is like having a death.

 

 

Can you imagine the pain for a woman that has been with him for 30 yrs?

And their kids, even if they are grown up.

[AlwaysGrowing]

Like most, I have had periods in my life that I was too self-involved, wasn't the mother, friend, partner that I should have been.

 

I can still acknowledge that, for the people that I hurt, that I was not a "good" person...at that time. Its true. I was less of a mother, friend and partner than I am now.

 

If they bring up that time, I fully acknowledge it. I take ownership and always will. Acknowledging it, does not diminish who I am now.

 

If any of the people I hurt, came to me and said.."you know, back in 1986..you were really an azzhat about X"..my response would be "you are absolutely correct I was, it was so selfish and mean of me to react like I did. You did not deserve it, I am still ashamed of having done that to you."

 

So, for me. It does not define/dictate who I am today. I also accept that it did indeed happen. It is what helps me to never be like that again.

[Sub]

I can yes, but i cannot understand her not seeing it and reading the evidence. After all you know someone 30 years you know what they are up to. I knew him 6 years and could read him like a book and I was right.

In that case, she had herself to blame.

 

I find this a little ridiculous. Say someone is naive, but not to blame for the pain they feel from an A by their WS.

[whatatangledweb]

I can yes, but i cannot understand her not seeing it and reading the evidence. After all you know someone 30 years you know what they are up to. I knew him 6 years and could read him like a book and I was right.

In that case, she had herself to blame.

 

I knew my husband 22 years when I caught him. I had no clue whatsoever. He acted as loving as always. He told her many lies about our marriage. This is most likely the case for the BS in your situation. She is not to blame. He is. He choose to cut you out of his life just as he choose to put you into it. He is the one staying away. She can't control his actions. He is the one you should be angry at.

 

OP, many times you can tell how far along someone is in their healing by how they talk about OW, BS, MM. The more pain, the uglier the words. No one person is alike.

 

Just as an example, Bentlychick is the sweetest and most caring person. She is the OW and I am a BS but I see her.... not who she is involved with. She is a doll and doesn't fit any of the ugly words that are used. I do not fit the BS ones either. I am not his mother, I love sex, I spend my free time with him, I don't take him for granted, we are not just married in name, we are not just roommates.

 

I have always lived by this saying...

What it takes to get me is what it takes to keep me.

 

I treat my husband just as I did when we first married . Him cheating never crossed my mind.

 

When I see those statements, I flinch. Then I remember that the person using them are in pain and I let it go.

[yellowmaverick]

But isn't this marrying down? I am not saying it is done intentionally but with full knowledge isn't that someone "not worthy" when all the cards are on the table?

 

Again, other aspects would play a factor and this opinion may change over time, may be positively or negatively impacted by other factors, etc. but at the crux of it, if one is assuming fidelity as a high priority (which I would assume by most if not all not involved in open relationships) this would be a "relationship down".

 

Honesty is my number one value, although fidelity is important as well. He knew how I felt about honesty.

[bentleychic]

Just as an example, Bentlychick is the sweetest and most caring person. She is the OW and I am a BS but I see her.... not who she is involved with. She is a doll and doesn't fit any of the ugly words that are used.

 

That is incredibly sweet. Thank you

[Raena]

I will say this... I'm guilty of using bashing words, nasty descriptions and hateful feelings towards both my ex and the "skank" he cheated on me with.(LOL, sorry I had to use the term, please don't get upset) I still feel like they both deserved those descriptions when I made them. What they did to me and my son, and what the OW continued(s) to do afterwards is just plain disgusting behavior.

 

I said those things when I was very angry and hurt. It's how I felt about him and her at those times. Mind you, it hasn't really been that long for me either, so it's still a very fresh wound.

 

The thing is... when I make those kinds of statements about them... I'm saying it about them... not about ALL WS and their AP, I talk specifically about the ones in my life that chose to selfishly hurt me. Does that make sense?

 

Will I grow out of it, I'm sure I will as I heal and move on from this hurtful situation.

 

I can, however, see where someone else could read the way I describe these 2 people in my life and have it trigger feelings of anger in themselves. It's all about your perspective as you read someone else's story. Not only perspective, but where the reader is at with their own healing journey. I'm guessing I will react differently a year from now than I do right now.

[wanting more]

I've followed your story and I've not Once thought you were grouping all OW/OM together.

 

You have every right to be very very angry and your WS and his OW. What they're doing if horrible.

 

I understand BSs coming on here and talking bad about OW. it's when all OW are grouped together.

 

The one thing we (OW/OM) have in common is that we are involved in an A. MY story (the entire story, which is not all written on here, about xMM BW and my xBSO, because I don't think some of the details need to be written out for every one to see) is not going to be the exact same as another OWs story.

 

I never stalked his BW. I never kept trying to contact him. Even after he contacted me months after 2nd d-day, and his BW found out and started calling me blaming me once again, I never contacted them.

 

I can't/don't compare every BS or even MM to the ones in my situation. I would never make a general statement about all BSs being in denial or naive.

 

Our stories are not all the same.

[goodyblue]

I don't compare either. but you must admit that there are common threads in each story, mostly because they are common threads in every story. My relationship with MM could be the same as any love story except that he was married. Now that we are together, it IS the same.

 

I'm also a little confused. I can't remember who posted about how nice Bentley is... and she is. Really. I adore her. This isn't a shot at you Bentley, But I am going to use you as an example. PLEASE don't be offended. I don't understand how you (the poster who said Bentley was so nice) can distinguish between OW? I know Bentley is so kind, I love that about her. But still, she is waiting on her MM to LEAVE HIS WIFE AND BE WIH HER. The BS in her situation will be you soon enough. SO does that make her as bad as the person who tried to ruin your marriage? She's not repentant. She just states it more kindly.

 

I support Bentley in her endeavor because she feels it is worth what she is going through. I, like her, have not had a lot of lovers, was always faithful , and found myself in a very peculiar and unexpected situation. But really, does that make either of us better or worse than the other? We still take your man away from your life. We still fulfill him in the ways that they need. Giving him what (he says) you can't (which is subjective to be sure). I'm just curious. Why is she better because she is 'nice' when she wants the same thing that most of the other OW want? Your man.

[threelaurels]

And in regards to morality assessments, and this is probably my WS/OW colors showing, but I think we are a sum of our parts not defined by necessarily one action. So one action does not define someone. I know many people who were OP or WS or BS and they are made up of good and bad features. I know people who were BS turned OP or WS, or OP/WS turned BS. The affair was a part of their life but there is much more to them than just the affair. So evaluating them as good or bad based solely on the affair is too narrow of an evaluation.

 

And tied to that, I have never had much of a desire to judge or label others. I remember that from as early as high school. I was always uncomfortable with labels and since I see us all in glass houses, even those that transgressed against me would not get more of a summation than "I don't like him/her because of . . . " I will write them out of my life. Especially on a sexual level which ends up quickly showing a double standard between the genders with females holding the bag for policing sexual activity.

 

As someone who has cheated, I feel the opposite. I think one single action can define who we are. No one has the knowledge of an omniscient being. Our minds our trained to rationalize our actions any way possible. People can cheat, lie, steal, and even kill and still think they are good people.

 

To the people I have hurt in the past, I am a bad person. I will probably always be a bad person in their eyes. Whether or not they forgive me is out of my hands. I certainly don't deserve to be forgiven, but they deserve to forgive me so that they can let the pain go and heal. I strive to be a better person not to atone for my past actions but rather to make a more positive impact on those around me in the present.

 

People are judgemental creatures. We think it terms of categories; it is engrained into our cognitive structure. We generalize because it provides us with a framework for interpreting new situations, people, places, etc. while using the least amount of cognitive energy possible required to be efficient. It's not something we do consciously, and we can't stop it. The best we can do is acknowledge that it happens and try not to let it affect how we treat others.

[painfullyobvious]

People tend to assign negative terms to people or things they do not like or understand. The names and terms in your post maybe unfair and stereotypical but so many affairs begin in stereotypical fashion and go on like a poorly written B rated film. The actors and actresses play the parts ignorant of what is taking place while everyone around them knows how the story will end.

 

Unless you were lied to at the beginning of an affair about the marital status of the person; you knew that engaging in the relationship was trouble. Many naively think they are in control of the relationship of a married AP or OM/OW but these scenarios seldom end well for anyone. What label is given to the people involved should be pretty far on the bottom of the list of things that matter in these types of relationships.

[whatatangledweb]

I don't compare either. but you must admit that there are common threads in each story, mostly because they are common threads in every story. My relationship with MM could be the same as any love story except that he was married. Now that we are together, it IS the same.

 

I'm also a little confused. I can't remember who posted about how nice Bentley is... and she is. Really. I adore her. This isn't a shot at you Bentley, But I am going to use you as an example. PLEASE don't be offended. I don't understand how you (the poster who said Bentley was so nice) can distinguish between OW? I know Bentley is so kind, I love that about her. But still, she is waiting on her MM to LEAVE HIS WIFE AND BE WIH HER. The BS in her situation will be you soon enough. SO does that make her as bad as the person who tried to ruin your marriage? She's not repentant. She just states it more kindly.

 

I support Bentley in her endeavor because she feels it is worth what she is going through. I, like her, have not had a lot of lovers, was always faithful , and found myself in a very peculiar and unexpected situation. But really, does that make either of us better or worse than the other? We still take your man away from your life. We still fulfill him in the ways that they need. Giving him what (he says) you can't (which is subjective to be sure). I'm just curious. Why is she better because she is 'nice' when she wants the same thing that most of the other OW want? Your man.

 

I said it. I have nothing against OW. Just the one in my case. It is the things she said about me and the things she did to me that tick me off. Bentley has never said a bad word about the MM's wife. She is not trying to hurt her nor does she want to. She did not ask him to leave his wife. He told her his divorce was happening when they hooked up. So nothing like my situation. I used her as an example of how many OW do not fit the names they are called.

 

Like I said in my earlier post. All OW are not the same nor our WS or BS. I judge a person on who they are not on who they sleep with. This is an OW forum. I don't look at it from a BS point of view unless asked for that view. I see women in pain. So while we are not all the same, we all feel pain. I try to help with that.