generalizations about OW/OM

[Ziz]

I think many feel guilt and remorse. Even with that said, we can all agree (I think?) that affairs are not okay, but other than that, you really cannot make a generalization about ALL OW/OM or MM/MW being exactly the same. That is the point of the thread.

 

It's a question I asked. I used "generally speaking" because I wasn't only referring to the OP. It's a question I'd like as many OW/OM to answer as it is something that I do not understand. I have made no generalizations about OW/OM.

[lilmisscantbewrong]

Ziz - you don't have to have sympathy - no one is asking that you do. But, you know what? I can look at situations where people make bad decision after bad decision and I can still have sympathy for them. Part of that, for me, is that I have now experienced what I thought I would never, ever do - a position I was so arrogant and prideful about that I looked down on people that had affairs and, in fact, refused to do business with those that I knew did. Guess what? I found myself in the same situation - very, very humbling.

 

Now I look at all situations (not just affairs) with a different set of eyes and I have more compassion now than I ever thought I would.

 

I still would prefer that I had never made those decisions, but I do see things differently.

 

I wish you well on your journey.

[bentleychic]

It's a question I asked. I used "generally speaking" because I wasn't only referring to the OP. It's a question I'd like as many OW/OM to answer as it is something that I do not understand. I have made no generalizations about OW/OM.

I am saying that is what this topic is about. Perhaps you should post your own thread asking the questions that you want answered so it does not turn in to a thread jack. (Which is frowned upon by moderators here.)

[hurtnomorerika]

I think it is easy to generalize about affairs because, quite frankly, it is easy to generalize all relationships. There are only so many "scripts" out there for relationships and reading enough it ends up repeating themselves. There are only so many ways to write a book, Man against Man, Man against Nature, etc and so is the same for relationships.

 

People, by nature, while unique if looked through a wide enough lens all look the same.

 

But I am am big fan of the gray and do not believe in absolutes. Generalizations are lazy thinking to quickly find trends and move on faster. It is lazy to not deep dive the nuances to see the differences as well as the similarities.

 

And the affair down comment. Okay, what ever makes you sleep better at night. Most slights are made to comfort the speaker.

 

So true. Thats what alot of BS do to make themselves ok with what happened.

[Fluttershy]

So true. Thats what alot of BS do to make themselves ok with what happened.

 

And a lot of AP do to make themselves feel better!!!

[Sub]

So true. Thats what alot of BS do to make themselves ok with what happened.

 

The heart of the issue is that BS's shouldn't need to "make themselves ok with what happened" in the first place, in my opinion.

[Got it]

I do feel immense compassion. For the baby that died. However, I have none for the other woman or the married man responsible for this. It is their actions that caused this. And for them, no sympathies will come from me.

 

Well that is sad then and not much different than what you are railing against. Your first post showed even little sympathy for the baby that died and you have repeated that you have none for the parents of the deceased baby.

 

You can "love" the sinner without loving the sin. And it really isn't that different from your railing against the OPs for not feeling towards the BS. There is still a limitness there with your sympathy. You want the OPs and the WS "to think of others" shouldn't that same thing carry through?

 

Sorry, I don't think the same way. I may be anger at some of the transgressions that others have made but that doesn't paint over any level of sympathy I may have for them due to other life obstacles.

 

And I agree this is a thread jack that has little to the original post. At the end of the day you have the write to your opinion just as everyone else has a right to theirs.

[sweet_pea]

Generalizations happen, I guess it's just life. My favorite one is that only the AP is blamed in the affair. I don't know how many times I've seen that said.

[Goodbye]

WHAAAAAA!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!

 

 

Uhm ok. Glad you thought that was funny.

[Got it]

Uhm ok. Glad you thought that was funny.

 

Sorry Goodbye, I was laughing at your point; that shockingly the OP isn't always Ned or Nancy Clampett.

 

Joke fell flat.

[rumbleseat]

At the end of the day, and at the end of life, it's really about what you think and say about yourself. You have to deal with who you are, what you do. You have to pay the consequences for the choices you make. It really does not matter what other people think or what they say.

 

Sorry, but this is untrue.

 

Ultimately, the one's who have to deal with someone's actions are the people left to clean up the mess.

 

Compare it to a war zone. After the war is over and the soldiers and machinery of war have left, all feeling pretty justified in their choices, who is left to clean up the mess? The ordinary people left behind.

 

Someone can go through life with a pretty high opinion of themselves, justifying and rationalizing every hurt they cause. Does this make those hurt suffer any less? Of course not. In fact, it's the people with this attitude that cause the most hurt and pain to others.

[Cinnimon]

Sorry, but this is untrue.

 

Ultimately, the one's who have to deal with someone's actions are the people left to clean up the mess.

 

Compare it to a war zone. After the war is over and the soldiers and machinery of war have left, all feeling pretty justified in their choices, who is left to clean up the mess? The ordinary people left behind.

 

Someone can go through life with a pretty high opinion of themselves, justifying and rationalizing every hurt they cause. Does this make those hurt suffer any less? Of course not. In fact, it's the people with this attitude that cause the most hurt and pain to others.

Untrue in your opinion maybe. I take responsibility for me, my actions my choices. I live with the consequences of my choices, which I am doing now. It is not me who should have to clean up the mess that MM left behind on his side, it was HIS CHOICE to have an A and risk hurting his W. Ultimately I am responsible for my part he is responsible for his. If he was worried about blowing up the lives around him, he shouldn't have done it.If I didn't want to go through what I've been going through I shouldn't have done it. I'm sorry that BS are left behind to clean up the messes that their WS created for them.

[Rhema]

 

2. if an OW gets pregnant, "she did it on purpose to try and hold on to him", really, he knows what it takes to make a baby, so if he was that worried about it, he should've wrapped his steve with a sleeve.

 

now my rant is over!!!!

 

 

Absoutely true

[rumbleseat]

Untrue in your opinion maybe. I take responsibility for me, my actions my choices. I live with the consequences of my choices, which I am doing now. It is not me who should have to clean up the mess that MM left behind on his side, it was HIS CHOICE to have an A and risk hurting his W. Ultimately I am responsible for my part he is responsible for his. If he was worried about blowing up the lives around him, he shouldn't have done it.If I didn't want to go through what I've been going through I shouldn't have done it. I'm sorry that BS are left behind to clean up the messes that their WS created for them.

 

I think we are kind of saying the same thing. You aren't the one who will be left hurting and having to clean up the mess. It's the bs. It doesn't matter if you feel you are only responsible to and for yourself. It won't change what happened.

[Iguanna]

I don't know if this is the right thread to put this. It's an article I found that is written from a psychologist. I translated it and I apologize if it's not in very good english. I'm sure you'll get the point.

 

The virtual responsible of affairs: The mistress is actually the victim and not the ... black sheep. While at the start everything is very good, she ends up unwittingly ushering in the marital relationship having to deal with and understand the existence of a family. Essentially she turns into a wife who waits. Very often the mistress is the cause of the renewal of the marital relationship. According to statistics, out of ten couples in which a mistress 'invades', eight of them end in renewing their marriage because the guilt that the man feels towards the betrayed spouse converts him to a warm and good family man. The idea that the mistress is totally to blame for everything is nothing more than a very good excuse for the betrayed wife so that she takes no blame for it. No woman has the power to invade a perfect relationship!

 

The real responsible of affairs: The poor marital relationship that is caused by lack of communication, sexual problems or everyday issues. According to research men, unlike women, choose to remain in a dysfunctional relationship rather to risk to topple their balances. The male psyche is in need of something that is certain, even if it's not ideal. They believe in the promises for divorce that they give to their mistresses because initially through the forbidden relationship they find the tranquility and pleasure that they have missed with their wives. But then, when the mistress begins to push and mutates into a woman with requirements and the man realizes that the only thing he managed is to have two women who whine, promises are forgotten and the mister returns to the main ... familiar moan of his wife.

 

The supposed opponent of the mistress: The wife is the reason why mistresses consider themselves in second place. If she got out of the way, they believe that they could experience the supreme happiness with those men who they share with her. Considering the spouse an opponent is a way of defense for their own selves. When you have an opponent on the loving field, you are more easily justified for your mediocre relationship.

 

The real opponent of the mistress: The low confidence. There is no woman who does not dream of a socially acceptable relationship which has a happy ending. So staying in the small role of the mistress means that you believe that little is much better than nothing, which you are likely to face with a breakup and you think that you are unable to find the whole.

Women who have done some self - criticism and are emotionally mature don't get satisfied with the role of mistress. The 'smart' mistresses who finally win the man are those who have high confidence, because they behave as if they have nothing to expect. Men adore women who don't have requirements and just give them satisfaction.

[rumbleseat]

I don't know if this is the right thread to put this. It's an article I found that is written from a psychologist. I translated it and I apologize if it's not in very good english. I'm sure you'll get the point.

 

The virtual responsible of affairs: The mistress is actually the victim and not the ... black sheep. While at the start everything is very good, she ends up unwittingly ushering in the marital relationship having to deal with and understand the existence of a family. Essentially she turns into a wife who waits. Very often the mistress is the cause of the renewal of the marital relationship. According to statistics, out of ten couples in which a mistress 'invades', eight of them end in renewing their marriage because the guilt that the man feels towards the betrayed spouse converts him to a warm and good family man. The idea that the mistress is totally to blame for everything is nothing more than a very good excuse for the betrayed wife so that she takes no blame for it. No woman has the power to invade a perfect relationship!

 

The real responsible of affairs: The poor marital relationship that is caused by lack of communication, sexual problems or everyday issues. According to research men, unlike women, choose to remain in a dysfunctional relationship rather to risk to topple their balances. The male psyche is in need of something that is certain, even if it's not ideal. They believe in the promises for divorce that they give to their mistresses because initially through the forbidden relationship they find the tranquility and pleasure that they have missed with their wives. But then, when the mistress begins to push and mutates into a woman with requirements and the man realizes that the only thing he managed is to have two women who whine, promises are forgotten and the mister returns to the main ... familiar moan of his wife.

 

The supposed opponent of the mistress: The wife is the reason why mistresses consider themselves in second place. If she got out of the way, they believe that they could experience the supreme happiness with those men who they share with her. Considering the spouse an opponent is a way of defense for their own selves. When you have an opponent on the loving field, you are more easily justified for your mediocre relationship.

 

The real opponent of the mistress: The low confidence. There is no woman who does not dream of a socially acceptable relationship which has a happy ending. So staying in the small role of the mistress means that you believe that little is much better than nothing, which you are likely to face with a breakup and you think that you are unable to find the whole.

Women who have done some self - criticism and are emotionally mature don't get satisfied with the role of mistress. The 'smart' mistresses who finally win the man are those who have high confidence, because they behave as if they have nothing to expect. Men adore women who don't have requirements and just give them satisfaction.

 

Sorry, but I don't agree with an awful lot of this.

 

Unless the mm or mw lied, the om or ow is no "victim". Painting them as such is patronizing and sees them as somehow less capable of being ale to make good choices than others people. It takes their power away.

 

Using the example of an ow, unless she was lied to by the mm and he told her he wasn't married, she went into the affair eyes wide open, fully in control of herself, her choices and her actions. She made the choice to get involved, and by the same token, she alone has the power to get herself out. She is not a victim. As long as she sees herself as one, and as long as she sees herself as powerless, helpless to stop herself or the affair, a slave to her emotions, she will continue to be hurt. Once she stops seeing herself as a victim and more as someone who chose to get into the affair and someone can choose to get out of it, she will take back her control. She won't subject herself to heartache.

 

You also make the assumption that all men who cheat are unhappy and their wives are lacking. People cheat for a wide range of reasons, some of which have nothing to do with their marriage. Of course, some really are in bad marriages, but others are under a lot of stress at work, have family issues outside of their marriage, some have mental health issues, some are emotionally immature and always want what they don't have, some saw their parents cheat and they are repeating pattens they learned as a child, some are personality disordered and some just cheat because they can. There are some men and women who could have the "perfect spouse" who is kind, loving, they communicate a lot, has lots of sex and they will still cheat.

 

As for the last paragraph. Come on, seriously? The ow like that who does end up marrying ( or in a LTR ) with her former married man may well find him cheating on her if he only chose her because she never needed or asked for anything form him. What happens when he finds out she has feet of clay and is just as human as his former W?

[Owl]

Gotta go with Rumble on that one...that article is a butt ton of generalizations going the other way...and nothing more.

 

I don't think I could have disagreed more with it.

[jlola]

 

Men adore women who don't have requirements and just give them satisfaction.

 

 

A woman who has no requirements and is there to give "satisfaction" yo a man is a doormat. A man who requires such woman is often controlling,selfish and a narcissist.

 

Relationships are give and take. I have seen the sort of relationship you describe where the woman gives all an yet the man still cheats. Why? Because he feels entitled to do as his pleases. Also he only cares about HIS wants,HIS needs, HIS emotions. Such a woman has taught him it is all about him!

 

Look at many cultures here the wife is taught to cater to the man's needs . Those men are amongs the biggest cheaters ever! They want mommy at home to do everything for them and they want the mistress for passion. Both women better know their place and not rock the boat or else they will upset the "King"!

 

Would anyone think it fair for a therapist to say " Women adore men who don't have requirements and just give them satisfaction".