generalizations about OW/OM

[experiencethedevine]

Rae you are definitely dealing with an extreme. I can say (just because it's me) most of us (FOW) are just human and have been lied too and promised things that could just not be delivered and the problem is we believed these guys. So gullible. It really is unfortunate and the bottom line is we should have been more kind to each other as women and then this wouldn't have happened.

 

I feel so stupid sometimes.

 

Oh my, please don't feel stupid. Being gullible is not the same thing. As you say, you put yourself in a position where you simply have no choice to believe such lies by a WS or the affair would not have a path on which to travel no?

 

It is indeed unfortunate that as women we do not respect our relationships with each other enough sometimes. We are, after all, a strong, capable and intelligent force to be reckoned with in a male dominated global environment!

 

You made a dreadful miscalculation in getting involved with a man wed to another, but it seems you had the good sense to extricate yourself, and I hope you were able to do so keeping your dignity intact.

[threelaurels]

As someone who has cheated, I feel the opposite. I think one single action can define who we are. No one has the knowledge of an omniscient being. Our minds our trained to rationalize our actions any way possible. People can cheat, lie, steal, and even kill and still think they are good people.

 

To the people I have hurt in the past, I am a bad person. I will probably always be a bad person in their eyes. Whether or not they forgive me is out of my hands. I certainly don't deserve to be forgiven, but they deserve to forgive me so that they can let the pain go and heal. I strive to be a better person not to atone for my past actions but rather to make a more positive impact on those around me in the present.

 

People are judgemental creatures. We think it terms of categories; it is engrained into our cognitive structure. We generalize because it provides us with a framework for interpreting new situations, people, places, etc. while using the least amount of cognitive energy possible required to be efficient. It's not something we do consciously, and we can't stop it. The best we can do is acknowledge that it happens and try not to let it affect how we treat others.

 

To qualify my response, I will admit that my view is largely due to my experiences. My line of work involves dealing with a lot of people who are very sick and have done horrific things. For example, I had to interview a man in prison who sexually abused his son for years--a man who could not admit, even years after the fact, that he had done anything wrong. He sees nothing wrong with what did and argues that he was simply "teaching his son how to have sex" to prepare him for when he one day gets a girlfriend or gets married :sick:

 

Nothing good this man has ever done or could possibly ever do in the future can make up for the harm he's caused. I once believed that everyone was a mixture of good and bad, but being in the same room with pure evil changed my mind. Not everyone is like that though, even in the prison interviews I've done and the ones I've sat in on and watched. Most are sad stories. Most make me feel empathy for them. However, people like the guy in my example... I can't even see as human. I look at them, and I just see a monster.

 

Yet, in the end, it's not the people like this guy who cause the most harm for society. Rather, the most harm to society is caused by everyday people who, although they only commit small transgressions individually, collectively create a lot of harm when their actions affect other people. If you are interested in hearing more, you should watch

that combines a lecture by Dan Ariely, one of the leading behavioral economists, with illustrations. It's a little hard to follow at some parts because of his accent and fast speech, but it's very informative.

[Got it]

I will say this... I'm guilty of using bashing words, nasty descriptions and hateful feelings towards both my ex and the "skank" he cheated on me with.(LOL, sorry I had to use the term, please don't get upset) I still feel like they both deserved those descriptions when I made them. What they did to me and my son, and what the OW continued(s) to do afterwards is just plain disgusting behavior.

 

I said those things when I was very angry and hurt. It's how I felt about him and her at those times. Mind you, it hasn't really been that long for me either, so it's still a very fresh wound.

 

The thing is... when I make those kinds of statements about them... I'm saying it about them... not about ALL WS and their AP, I talk specifically about the ones in my life that chose to selfishly hurt me. Does that make sense?

 

Will I grow out of it, I'm sure I will as I heal and move on from this hurtful situation.

 

I can, however, see where someone else could read the way I describe these 2 people in my life and have it trigger feelings of anger in themselves. It's all about your perspective as you read someone else's story. Not only perspective, but where the reader is at with their own healing journey. I'm guessing I will react differently a year from now than I do right now.

 

Raena,

 

This is very true and I think many people recognize when someone is posting about their situation and if they are name calling it isn't assumed to transcend across the board.

 

What people are saying is when someone takes their situation and WILL use it to broad brush. That is when we fall into generalizations and assumptions. Unfortunately many do not preface their writing to keep it based on themselves. They will extrapolate their situation into all situations. (and this is not just about affairs but just about life and life experiences and opinions in general).

 

And sorry again for your situation and what you are going through ((((((Raena))))))).

[Got it]

As someone who has cheated, I feel the opposite. I think one single action can define who we are. No one has the knowledge of an omniscient being. Our minds our trained to rationalize our actions any way possible. People can cheat, lie, steal, and even kill and still think they are good people.

 

To the people I have hurt in the past, I am a bad person. I will probably always be a bad person in their eyes. Whether or not they forgive me is out of my hands. I certainly don't deserve to be forgiven, but they deserve to forgive me so that they can let the pain go and heal. I strive to be a better person not to atone for my past actions but rather to make a more positive impact on those around me in the present.

 

People are judgemental creatures. We think it terms of categories; it is engrained into our cognitive structure. We generalize because it provides us with a framework for interpreting new situations, people, places, etc. while using the least amount of cognitive energy possible required to be efficient. It's not something we do consciously, and we can't stop it. The best we can do is acknowledge that it happens and try not to let it affect how we treat others.

 

I didn't say that in their eyes you may not be. But because that one person thinks you were a bad person from what you did in 1986 does that DEFINE you as a bad person? This is where the big picture of who someone is is going to be the sum of their parts. I did state in one of my posts that how you view the person is going to be determined by your relationship to them, etc.

 

No, all people are not judgemental creature, or at the same level/frequency. You may be and that may define you, but here is exactly my point, this is not a given fact for all humans. And the level people will use generalizations are going to vary. Some people, for example, will have a bad experience with a pit bull and so they will broad brush that ALL pits are bad. Other people, will have a bad experience with a pit bull but will keep their opinion on the specific dog and not the breed.

 

I had a very bad experience with an older female profession for Latin. I mean, very bad, was grading me wrong so I ended up initially failing the class, was insulting, treated me differently, etc. I had to challenge her up the process to the Dean of Students and Dean of Faculty to show the disparate treatment and graduate college. My whole graduation was actually resting on this. Now, I could have walked away from this not liking older women, professors of Latin, professors in general, etc. I never really knew why she did what she did but I rest it solely on her and whatever issues she has. I knew it wasn't about me because she really didn't know me and it was all about her dysfunction and my interaction with her did not transcend towards others.

 

My job is focused on human capital. If I allowed a high level of generalizing people then I wouldn't be able to do my job correctly because I would allow my personal views to color what is in front of me. While, yes, some personal baggage is going to be involved, I work very hard to minimize it as much as possible and just focus on the facts. And try not to assume because we know what assuming does.

 

One single act CAN define us to another human being if there is not a bigger pool of experience to draw from and based on the percentage of this experience compared to other experiences with us. Yes. But I do not agree that one single act DOES define us in our totality.

[Got it]

To qualify my response, I will admit that my view is largely due to my experiences. My line of work involves dealing with a lot of people who are very sick and have done horrific things. For example, I had to interview a man in prison who sexually abused his son for years--a man who could not admit, even years after the fact, that he had done anything wrong. He sees nothing wrong with what did and argues that he was simply "teaching his son how to have sex" to prepare him for when he one day gets a girlfriend or gets married :sick:

 

Nothing good this man has ever done or could possibly ever do in the future can make up for the harm he's caused. I once believed that everyone was a mixture of good and bad, but being in the same room with pure evil changed my mind. Not everyone is like that though, even in the prison interviews I've done and the ones I've sat in on and watched. Most are sad stories. Most make me feel empathy for them. However, people like the guy in my example... I can't even see as human. I look at them, and I just see a monster.

 

Yet, in the end, it's not the people like this guy who cause the most harm for society. Rather, the most harm to society is caused by everyday people who, although they only commit small transgressions individually, collectively create a lot of harm when their actions affect other people. If you are interested in hearing more, you should watch

that combines a lecture by Dan Ariely, one of the leading behavioral economists, with illustrations. It's a little hard to follow at some parts because of his accent and fast speech, but it's very informative.

 

Yes, we are a sum of our parts. So I sympathy and agree that some people are completely "bad". My husband was abused as a child and I am in awe and humbled at how well he has dealt with it, what you posted about that prisoner hits home. It is amazing to see how something that happened decades later still carries on till today and my husband still with occasionally check the prison website to track when he is going to be released. This man has never truly admitted what he did to so many boys.

 

And yes, most actions are not done with malicious intent but it is the 1000 small cuts that do the most damage. Humans are a fallible and selfish creature. I think most/many people do strive to do right by others and themselves but fail along the way and unfortunately it is those around them and especially closest to them that bear the brunt of those actions.

[Got it]

Oh my, please don't feel stupid. Being gullible is not the same thing. As you say, you put yourself in a position where you simply have no choice to believe such lies by a WS or the affair would not have a path on which to travel no?

 

It is indeed unfortunate that as women we do not respect our relationships with each other enough sometimes. We are, after all, a strong, capable and intelligent force to be reckoned with in a male dominated global environment!

 

You made a dreadful miscalculation in getting involved with a man wed to another, but it seems you had the good sense to extricate yourself, and I hope you were able to do so keeping your dignity intact.

 

This is a t/j and I know I have posted this before, but I have never understood the above sentiment. I don't discount that many women ARE strong, capable and intelligent, but why should I align myself with someone because they have the same reproduction organs as me? Why not align myself with all in the human race, why does my gender factor in? Does that mean I should have a "race"hood with others of my nationality? I am left handed, should I feel a kinship and protection to all other South Paws? Why is my most prominent characteristic my gender?

[lilmisscantbewrong]

Oh my, please don't feel stupid. Being gullible is not the same thing. As you say, you put yourself in a position where you simply have no choice to believe such lies by a WS or the affair would not have a path on which to travel no?

 

It is indeed unfortunate that as women we do not respect our relationships with each other enough sometimes. We are, after all, a strong, capable and intelligent force to be reckoned with in a male dominated global environment!

 

You made a dreadful miscalculation in getting involved with a man wed to another, but it seems you had the good sense to extricate yourself, and I hope you were able to do so keeping your dignity intact.

 

Well it's better now some four years down that road, but it was certainly a cluster at first and any dignity I had was stripped when the infamous pastors decided to read our names before the congregation and make it a huge, public scandal (for which they eventually lost their jobs, but not before the damage was done). At any rate, I did come out stronger which is why I have such strong opinions on certain things with regards to the way "religion" handles things, exposure, etc. In my case, exposure impeded recovery - it did not help.

[threelaurels]

I didn't say that in their eyes you may not be. But because that one person thinks you were a bad person from what you did in 1986 does that DEFINE you as a bad person? This is where the big picture of who someone is is going to be the sum of their parts. I did state in one of my posts that how you view the person is going to be determined by your relationship to them, etc.

 

I wasn't even born in 1986, so I would think not. I must have misunderstood your initial point.

 

No, all people are not judgemental creature, or at the same level/frequency. You may be and that may define you, but here is exactly my point, this is not a given fact for all humans. And the level people will use generalizations are going to vary. Some people, for example, will have a bad experience with a pit bull and so they will broad brush that ALL pits are bad. Other people, will have a bad experience with a pit bull but will keep their opinion on the specific dog and not the breed.

 

That people are inherently predisposed to judging people has been well established in social psychological literature. Judgement does not mean prejudice or discrimination, nor does it indicate belief in something. We do not make the type of judgements I'm talking about consciously; we do it automatically. For example, our bodies react to the presence of danger via the fight-or-flight response before we can even truly assess the situation. It's simply how our brains work. Judgements are necessary to ensure our survival.

 

My job is focused on human capital. If I allowed a high level of generalizing people then I wouldn't be able to do my job correctly because I would allow my personal views to color what is in front of me. While, yes, some personal baggage is going to be involved, I work very hard to minimize it as much as possible and just focus on the facts. And try not to assume because we know what assuming does.

 

That's about all we can do--acknowledge that we are sometimes biased and try not to let it affect how we treat other people.

[Got it]

I wasn't even born in 1986, so I would think not. I must have misunderstood your initial point.

 

 

 

That people are inherently predisposed to judging people has been well established in social psychological literature. Judgement does not mean prejudice or discrimination, nor does it indicate belief in something. We do not make the type of judgements I'm talking about consciously; we do it automatically. For example, our bodies react to the presence of danger via the fight-or-flight response before we can even truly assess the situation. It's simply how our brains work. Judgements are necessary to ensure our survival.

 

 

 

That's about all we can do--acknowledge that we are sometimes biased and try not to let it affect how we treat other people.

 

1986 - it was a random date to make the point of something from a while back.

 

Two, we are talking judgement based on or creating generalizations. So my comment is in regards to that. Again, I stated at the same level or frequency.

 

Laurel, do you understand the degree of what I am discussing or just belaboring a point that I am not actually speaking to?

[aliveagain]

I guess your affair was just different. What about all the other generalization's like:

 

They always lie about wearing protection.

Cheaters are liars,

Cheaters only care about themselves, they are selfish.

Cheaters believe their infidelity is different, their love for O/M or O/W is real and will stand the test of time. O/M or O/W really love them.

Their marriage will survive infidelity if discovered.

Their children won't be effected.

Their children will get over it and like O/M or O/W in time.

The affair won't change them and they can stop it anytime they want.

 

If none of these apply to your situation I will apologize to you on behalf of all B/S's. My ex did fit these and so did a few ex girlfriends/fiance's and I can only generalize based on my personal experiences as well as from reading a few thousand postings on LS. My ex got pregnant like you but she chose to pretend affair child was mine so I got to pretend to my family, my friends, my biological children, the great co workers that bought my son all those great baby gifts that I was his dad. I then got the opportunity to go back to them and apologize.

 

I guess if you had never cheated and I had never been cheated on this conversation would never have happened. What do we call this?

[threelaurels]

Laurel, do you understand the degree of what I am discussing or just belaboring a point that I am not actually speaking to?

 

I will be honest and admit that I'm not actually comprehending much of anything right now. I've been up for 48 hours straight, I don't remember what point I was trying to make, and I just spent the last 10 minutes trying to explain what having a reasonable expectation of privacy means to someone who apparently does not understand why you would have a reasonable expectation of privacy in the bathroom but not in public. I think I'm going to go bang my head against the wall for the next two hours until I can go home

[skywriter]

threelaurels,

 

sirens going off in my head! sorry for the thread jack!

 

"I wasn't even born in 1986, so I would think not"

 

Reading this has got me feeling like , well...ancient, dinasaur-ish!

 

whew! wiping my brow! okay...I'm over it...ahhhh, reaching for the geritol! hee...hee...

Thinking I'm an ole coot.

Edited December 5, 2013 by skywriter

[peaksandvalleys]

I will say this... I'm guilty of using bashing words, nasty descriptions and hateful feelings towards both my ex and the "skank" he cheated on me with.(LOL, sorry I had to use the term, please don't get upset) I still feel like they both deserved those descriptions when I made them. What they did to me and my son, and what the OW continued(s) to do afterwards is just plain disgusting behavior.

 

I said those things when I was very angry and hurt. It's how I felt about him and her at those times. Mind you, it hasn't really been that long for me either, so it's still a very fresh wound.

 

The thing is... when I make those kinds of statements about them... I'm saying it about them... not about ALL WS and their AP, I talk specifically about the ones in my life that chose to selfishly hurt me. Does that make sense?

 

Will I grow out of it, I'm sure I will as I heal and move on from this hurtful situation.

 

I can, however, see where someone else could read the way I describe these 2 people in my life and have it trigger feelings of anger in themselves. It's all about your perspective as you read someone else's story. Not only perspective, but where the reader is at with their own healing journey. I'm guessing I will react differently a year from now than I do right now.

 

I agree Raena. I only know the two people who destroyed my life. My nasty words and anger are directed at them solely.

[Cinnimon]

At the end of the day, and at the end of life, it's really about what you think and say about yourself. You have to deal with who you are, what you do. You have to pay the consequences for the choices you make. It really does not matter what other people think or what they say.

[Ziz]

I'm sorry. But I'm quite baffled as to how some people are turning having an affair into sympathy party and the like for the poster of this thread. I don't mean to sound rude or anything, but this is just something that I just cannot comprehend.

Generally speaking, how do you feel being the other woman? Do you not feel the least bit guilty? Remorse? Or how damaging being with a married man/woman could be? I know for a fact that the married man/woman is equally as responsible for whichever damage will be caused. But do you, as the other woman/man, not have a sense of how potentially damaging your actions as the other woman/man could be? There's children involved and lives could be ruined because of such behaviour.

Because of her actions, a child had to die (they baby would have died even if she hadn't miscarried). Sorry if I offended anyone but I really do not know how anybody could do something so horrible.

[lilmisscantbewrong]

Obviously you are in pain, zip, which we all understand. But it doesn't change the fact that we are all trying to find our way. That is why we are here.

[threelaurels]

threelaurels,

 

sirens going off in my head! sorry for the thread jack!

 

"I wasn't even born in 1986, so I would think not"

 

Reading this has got me feeling like , well...ancient, dinasaur-ish!

 

whew! wiping my brow! okay...I'm over it...ahhhh, reaching for the geritol! hee...hee...

Thinking I'm an ole coot.

 

Haha, sorry! I'm only in my mid-20s, so I'm still a youngin' compared to many of the people who post here

[wanting more]

I'm sorry. But I'm quite baffled as to how some people are turning having an affair into sympathy party and the like for the poster of this thread. I don't mean to sound rude or anything, but this is just something that I just cannot comprehend.

Generally speaking, how do you feel being the other woman? Do you not feel the least bit guilty? Remorse? Or how damaging being with a married man/woman could be? I know for a fact that the married man/woman is equally as responsible for whichever damage will be caused. But do you, as the other woman/man, not have a sense of how potentially damaging your actions as the other woman/man could be? There's children involved and lives could be ruined because of such behaviour.

Because of her actions, a child had to die (they baby would have died even if she hadn't miscarried). Sorry if I offended anyone but I really do not know how anybody could do something so horrible.

 

Whg do you think I'm turning it into a sympathy party?

 

And why did the baby have to die or wouldn't died anyway??

[Got it]

I will be honest and admit that I'm not actually comprehending much of anything right now. I've been up for 48 hours straight, I don't remember what point I was trying to make, and I just spent the last 10 minutes trying to explain what having a reasonable expectation of privacy means to someone who apparently does not understand why you would have a reasonable expectation of privacy in the bathroom but not in public. I think I'm going to go bang my head against the wall for the next two hours until I can go home

 

Bwahahahaha!!!!!

 

I am sorry and hope you don't mind me laughing but that is too funny. Get some sleep!

 

And sorry you had to waste any minute explaining that! I didn't realize that people didn't understand the difference! (And it isn't like one wouldn't appreciate more privacy in public but unfortunately it doesn't happen! I am not a fan of communal bathrooms; my bathroom habits are private and I would love if everyone's was as well. )

[Got it]

I'm sorry. But I'm quite baffled as to how some people are turning having an affair into sympathy party and the like for the poster of this thread. I don't mean to sound rude or anything, but this is just something that I just cannot comprehend.

Generally speaking, how do you feel being the other woman? Do you not feel the least bit guilty? Remorse? Or how damaging being with a married man/woman could be? I know for a fact that the married man/woman is equally as responsible for whichever damage will be caused. But do you, as the other woman/man, not have a sense of how potentially damaging your actions as the other woman/man could be? There's children involved and lives could be ruined because of such behaviour.

Because of her actions, a child had to die (they baby would have died even if she hadn't miscarried). Sorry if I offended anyone but I really do not know how anybody could do something so horrible.

 

Ziz, just like you are beseeching the OP here asking them if they had any understanding of sympathy or compassion to others in their realm, here you are lacking any common compassion for those that do have affairs.

 

I am not saying that one should be completely sympathetic for the OP to have lost her baby, why wouldn't we feel sympathy for her?

 

Yes of course I understand the level of pain I caused. Same question goes for how those can be a BS and become a WS or how someone that has been a WS not understand, to some degree, how their spouse felt when they realize they are now a BS.

 

You are asking for a common level of decency and sympathy but yet you aren't willing to extend the same.

[Goodbye]

Yes, "they always affair down." Don't mean to toot my own horn, but I am more educated, younger, wealthier and frankly, better looking than the wife. That being said, he is with her. And that is quite fine. I'm just saying that the OW isn't always some trailer trash with low esteem begging for a hand out from the MM.

[Got it]

Yes, "they always affair down." Don't mean to toot my own horn, but I am more educated, younger, wealthier and frankly, better looking than the wife. That being said, he is with her. And that is quite fine. I'm just saying that the OW isn't always some trailer trash with low esteem begging for a hand out from the MM.

 

WHAAAAAA!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!

[bentleychic]

Generally speaking, how do you feel being the other woman? Do you not feel the least bit guilty? Remorse? Or how damaging being with a married man/woman could be? I know for a fact that the married man/woman is equally as responsible for whichever damage will be caused. But do you, as the other woman/man, not have a sense of how potentially damaging your actions as the other woman/man could be? There's children involved and lives could be ruined because of such behaviour.

 

I think many feel guilt and remorse. Even with that said, we can all agree (I think?) that affairs are not okay, but other than that, you really cannot make a generalization about ALL OW/OM or MM/MW being exactly the same. That is the point of the thread.

[Ziz]

Whg do you think I'm turning it into a sympathy party?

 

And why did the baby have to die or wouldn't died anyway??

 

 

She stated that she was going to get an abortion but didn't have to because she miscarried.

[Ziz]

Ziz, just like you are beseeching the OP here asking them if they had any understanding of sympathy or compassion to others in their realm, here you are lacking any common compassion for those that do have affairs.

 

I am not saying that one should be completely sympathetic for the OP to have lost her baby, why wouldn't we feel sympathy for her?

 

Yes of course I understand the level of pain I caused. Same question goes for how those can be a BS and become a WS or how someone that has been a WS not understand, to some degree, how their spouse felt when they realize they are now a BS.

 

You are asking for a common level of decency and sympathy but yet you aren't willing to extend the same.

 

 

I do feel immense compassion. For the baby that died. However, I have none for the other woman or the married man responsible for this. It is their actions that caused this. And for them, no sympathies will come from me.