What ever happened to privacy?

[John-Dough]

Hmmm, doesn't drive, doesn't leave the house. Does your wife have agoraphobia? Anxiety?

 

 

I have wondered about that myself. I don't think it's full-blown, but maybe the beginnings. I have tried to change this - but have had no luck.

[Fluttershy]

"Those that have nothing to hide, hide nothing" My H and I have always had full access to all accounts and devices. Not because we asked but because neither od us felt the need to hide them.

That being said, I believe if one spouse is constantly snooping through the other's things without finding anything or cause for suspiceons there is something unhealthy in that spouse. Trust issues or even a general nosiness. Trust issues can cause paranoa. Nosiness can get tiring. That is something that should be sorted.

[ChooseTruth]

Where do I start.

 

First, she is not my EX. She is my W.

 

Second, I have no wish as to how it played out. I have no idea as to what I would have done. I can speculate, but I wasn't given the opportunity to make that decision on my own. The decision was made for me before I knew the letter even existed.

 

And - I am not sure if we were even engaged at the time, we may have just been living together. Regardless, it was a letter addressed to me. But again, I got over this a long time ago and merely brought it up as an example. I now know that citing an example can be a bad idea.

 

I definitely was not married. And even if I were married, I am my own person, I am no ones property. And I treat my significant other the same way.

 

When I said ex, I meant your ex, the lady who sent you the letter. She obviously had some pretty devious intentions:

"...wanted to see me before she tied the knot. She wanted to be sure she was making the right choice."

Your then fiance, now wife had a right to be pissed at what she found.

 

[edit] oh now I see the typo in the first sentence of my previous post... the second time I said "ex" I meant it. You are correct, I meant to say your fiance had a right to be pissed. [/edit]

 

If you are over it then why did you say this?

"but over the years it bothered me more and more. It still bothers me to this day, obviously. I couldn't understand why she thought she had the right to open a personal letter to me and then to destroy it without letting me see it, not allowing me to make my own decisions.

I gotta say man, you sound exactly like my exwife, who I divorced for cheating.

 

And again, the example doesn't matter. Secrets and marriage do not mix.

Edited December 7, 2013 by ChooseTruth

[MidwestUSA]

I have wondered about that myself. I don't think it's full-blown, but maybe the beginnings. I have tried to change this - but have had no luck.

 

It's not something you can change. Might want to go the route of a professional who can officially diagnose and help. Good luck!

[John-Dough]

f you are over it then why did you say this?

 

Sorry, I probably exaggerated on that - to make a more interesting post and try and make my point better about PRIVACY. In addition, both my wife and I know this ex-gf and believe me when I say there is no interest there from my POV and she and I never would have gotten together anyway.

 

And the example does matter, because had I not included that we would have never got off on this tangent.

 

I gotta say man, you sound exactly like my exwife, who I divorced for cheating."I

 

Understood - you are scarred from this past incident.

 

Just out of curiosity - do you think it's okay to have a private conversation with a same sex friend or maybe your sibling and not disclose all the details of your conversation to your significant other? Is your significant other allowed to have the same type of private conversation or would you think it necessary for them to tell you everything that is being said? I guess this would pertain to a therapist as well or coming on this site and trying to get help. Do you see any right to privacy whatsoever after someone marries you? And I'm not talking about going to the bathroom - I believe you know what I am getting at.

Edited December 7, 2013 by John-Dough

[Sparty97]

Privacy is something you do in the bathroom.

 

 

When you are married....majority of the time your spouse starts checking on you means that they know something is off and will usually figure out what it is.

 

 

I never checked up on my husband until he gave me a reason to.

 

 

And by the way...I would have handed you the letter, but I also would have expected that you would tell me what was included in it.

 

 

Also.....the letter was out of line. There is no reason someone is planning their wedding needs to met up with ex to find closure.

 

I have as much privacy as I insist on. If you trust your spouse you should have no need for their email passwords, phone/text records, or knowledge of the contents of a letter from an old friend unless he/she feels like telling you.

 

You don't own a spouse. BTW, they weren't even married yet, so technically she committed a crime.

[painfullyobvious]

I did not read all the replies so I apologize if this repeated. It is one thing to have privacy when things are fine, healthy and happy. Where many of us in these forums have snooped through personal data was when a person is displaying behaviors that are indicative of a person lying, stories not adding up or sounds like an affair taking place. The compulsion to check to make sure you are not being cheated on is a difficult fine line to balance on. I caught my ex by accident and believed that she continued to cheat afterwards. I felt like things were not adding up and I continued to catch her in lies and find evidence that was ridiculously attempted to be explained away. I needed answers for myself and felt terrible for invading her privacy but I did not want to be lied too or work any longer on a relationship where someone was cheating on me. I did not want to give up reconciling unless I knew she was absolutely cheating. I found these answers in phone bills, letters, e-mails, etc.

 

 

Before I suspected my girlfriends was cheating I gave her 100 percent privacy and never so much as looked at a single piece of mail of hers. She forfeited her privacy when she cheated and kept it secret for who knows how long. I have never snooped through anything of anyones in relationships since then. If I believe someone was cheating I just learned to trust myself and I was done with the relationship.

[John-Dough]

I did not read all the replies so I apologize if this repeated. It is one thing to have privacy when things are fine, healthy and happy. Where many of us in these forums have snooped through personal data was when a person is displaying behaviors that are indicative of a person lying, stories not adding up or sounds like an affair taking place. The compulsion to check to make sure you are not being cheated on is a difficult fine line to balance on. I caught my ex by accident and believed that she continued to cheat afterwards. I felt like things were not adding up and I continued to catch her in lies and find evidence that was ridiculously attempted to be explained away. I needed answers for myself and felt terrible for invading her privacy but I did not want to be lied too or work any longer on a relationship where someone was cheating on me. I did not want to give up reconciling unless I knew she was absolutely cheating. I found these answers in phone bills, letters, e-mails, etc.

 

 

Before I suspected my girlfriends was cheating I gave her 100 percent privacy and never so much as looked at a single piece of mail of hers. She forfeited her privacy when she cheated and kept it secret for who knows how long. I have never snooped through anything of anyones in relationships since then. If I believe someone was cheating I just learned to trust myself and I was done with the relationship.

 

That's a POV that makes sense.

[Fluttershy]

If I have a friend who confides in me I absolutely don't tell my spouse. Sometimes it is hard because I tell him everything but not another person's secrets if they request he not be told. I don't think that it is a privacy thing more a "need to know" thing. I do have friends who will not keep other people's secrets from their SO. But they are honest about it so? You just don't tell them anything you don't want getting past one person.

I am just not sure in a close friendship/marriage what privacy is needed? As I said we don't snoop on each others things (that I know of) but neither of us at this time feel a need to snoop. On the other hand when my husband comes home from a guy's night out I ask him how it was but I don't expect a play by play of the evening.

What I am trying to say is, we don't suffocate each other so maybe their is no need for privacy?

[John-Dough]

If I have a friend who confides in me I absolutely don't tell my spouse. Sometimes it is hard because I tell him everything but not another person's secrets if they request he not be told. I don't think that it is a privacy thing more a "need to know" thing. I do have friends who will not keep other people's secrets from their SO. But they are honest about it so? You just don't tell them anything you don't want getting past one person.

I am just not sure in a close friendship/marriage what privacy is needed? As I said we don't snoop on each others things (that I know of) but neither of us at this time feel a need to snoop. On the other hand when my husband comes home from a guy's night out I ask him how it was but I don't expect a play by play of the evening.

What I am trying to say is, we don't suffocate each other so maybe their is no need for privacy?

 

To me both scenarios you mention - the one where someone confides in you and you don't tell your SO and the one where you don't ask for a play by play of the guys night out - are two examples of respecting your SOs privacy. In the first - your SO probably wouldn't get upset if he knew you were holding that info back and in the other you don't even want the information. In some of the posts I have read and in some of the replies on this thread, it does sound like smothering is taking place. I know in some situations it is offered by one party because they feel a need to prove to the other party that they can be trusted, however I'm not sure it really proves anything. Think about it. And it also seems, if that is what it takes, it isn't worth it for either party. And to continue that behavior with with future relationships, does not seem good either. JMO

[crederer]

OP, it sounds like you are more upset about how the fiance handled the situation rather than actually going through your stuff.

 

I don't think there is a problem with people going through eachothers things to a certain extent. There is a line though. If my partner wants to go through my things once in a blue moon to make them feel better, sure. But if it starts running our relationship and I feel like I'm living in a prison, that's where it becomes a deal breaker.

 

I also think most people that snoop do it because of some seriously large red flags or found something by accident then further explored it.

 

You can't tell me that if you checked the time on your wifes phone for example, and there is a message popped up as if it was the last thing she did before putting down the phone and not closing it out, from her ex saying "Hey, I had a great time last night. We should do it again some time. I missed you" that you're not going to snoop some past messages after seeing that. I'm sorry but you can't even say that you wouldn't and have me take you seriously.

Edited December 7, 2013 by crederer

[beach]

First, privacy is not an issue in my marriage. I had just been reading through some of the stuff here and was surprised at how there seems to be no privacy in a lot of these relationships. I was merely stating, I could not live that way. If a problem occurs, either work through it or move on. If you have to watch their every move - what's the point.

 

As far as helping me - if anybody has any great ways to bring up issues regarding some problems they feel the other person has that they don't want to discuss and don't want to deal with that would be helpful. Keep in mind this person will not go to any kind of therapy and will feel like they are being attacked and will get defensive and lash out.

 

The car deal is a big one for me, because it means I have to run all the errands. And it's not like she goes with me, she doesn't like to leave the house. She won't even go out to dinner.

 

Addressing issues in your M is up to each one of you - to discuss what is on your mind - and to come to new agreements about what you will change.

 

If she avoids going out - and you do all the errands but don't like it - then it's up to you to talk about changing that.

 

It may take you refusing to be her errand boy - and her forcing herself to step outside her comfort zone by walking or taking the bus to get errands accomplished.

 

It's unhealthy that she doesn't go out - what if something happens and you can't do it - you both need to fully understand she will be capable of surviving on her own.

[ChooseTruth]

Sorry, I probably exaggerated on that - to make a more interesting post and try and make my point better about PRIVACY. In addition, both my wife and I know this ex-gf and believe me when I say there is no interest there from my POV and she and I never would have gotten together anyway.

 

And the example does matter, because had I not included that we would have never got off on this tangent.

 

 

 

Understood - you are scarred from this past incident.

 

Just out of curiosity - do you think it's okay to have a private conversation with a same sex friend or maybe your sibling and not disclose all the details of your conversation to your significant other? Is your significant other allowed to have the same type of private conversation or would you think it necessary for them to tell you everything that is being said? I guess this would pertain to a therapist as well or coming on this site and trying to get help. Do you see any right to privacy whatsoever after someone marries you? And I'm not talking about going to the bathroom - I believe you know what I am getting at.

 

I didn't report every conversation, but if she had wanted to know I would have told her. If she had opened a suspicious letter from an ex of mine I would have understood completely.

 

I never said anything to my therapist that I wouldn't have shared with my ex. Ex knew I was active on some forums and I actually told her some of what went on, but I will be honest that I preferred she not come here and read my threads. In retrospect, it really shouldn't have mattered if she read the threads or not. Personally I hope she has at this point ^^

 

What could be annoying is unprovoked jealous behavior, like if my ex had gone out of her way to spy on me when there was no pursuit of any kind going on (in your case there was pursuit by the ex)

 

Maybe what you are objecting to is jealous behavior? That I could understand a little better if unprovoked.

[John-Dough]

You can't tell me that if you checked the time on your wifes phone for example, and there is a message popped up as if it was the last thing she did before putting down the phone and not closing it out, from her ex saying "Hey, I had a great time last night. We should do it again some time. I missed you" that you're not going to snoop some past messages after seeing that. I'm sorry but you can't even say that you wouldn't and have me take you seriously.

 

I don't know that never happened to me, but you may be right.

 

As far as all the other stuff goes, lack of privacy is not really an issue in my M. That incident was years ago - and just an example, and I do feel it was out of line and she obviously did too - at least that is what she said.

 

I just would not live in a situation where either party felt that it was necessary. Just not worth it - at least to me.

[John-Dough]

Addressing issues in your M is up to each one of you - to discuss what is on your mind - and to come to new agreements about what you will change.

 

If she avoids going out - and you do all the errands but don't like it - then it's up to you to talk about changing that.

 

It may take you refusing to be her errand boy - and her forcing herself to step outside her comfort zone by walking or taking the bus to get errands accomplished.

 

It's unhealthy that she doesn't go out - what if something happens and you can't do it - you both need to fully understand she will be capable of surviving on her own.

 

Yes it is, neither one of us are particularly good at it. I have offered to buy her whatever new car she wants - but she is not interested. I've tried somewhat, but I guess I'm not very good at it.

 

If I do that - then things that need to get done, won't get done. For example, no food in the house. Also, a lot of other things.

 

I agree it is very unhealthy. I have told her this, her family has told her this. But, nothing changes.

 

I think I am kind of screwed. Unless I want to take drastic measures. I am trying to figure out what to do - just don't have the answer yet.

[John-Dough]

I didn't report every conversation, but if she had wanted to know I would have told her. If she had opened a suspicious letter from an ex of mine I would have understood completely.

 

I never said anything to my therapist that I wouldn't have shared with my ex. Ex knew I was active on some forums and I actually told her some of what went on, but I will be honest that I preferred she not come here and read my threads. In retrospect, it really shouldn't have mattered if she read the threads or not. Personally I hope she has at this point ^^

 

What could be annoying is unprovoked jealous behavior, like if my ex had gone out of her way to spy on me when there was no pursuit of any kind going on (in your case there was pursuit by the ex)

 

Maybe what you are objecting to is jealous behavior? That I could understand a little better if unprovoked.

 

I'm not really objecting to anything - that was just an example of something that happened to me a very long time ago that I didn't like. Actually, she felt bad about it as well - so, I am pretty sure she felt it was wrong too and she said as much.

 

I think people are different. Some people are more private than others. Just like some people are out-going and others are more introverted. We can't all be the same. I think you are a very open person and feel very comfortable that way. I'm just not built that way. It doesn't mean I am hiding anything, it's just the way I am. And as I said, I couldn't live that way. Fortunately, I have never had to try.

[beach]

Yes it is, neither one of us are particularly good at it. I have offered to buy her whatever new car she wants - but she is not interested. I've tried somewhat, but I guess I'm not very good at it.

 

If I do that - then things that need to get done, won't get done. For example, no food in the house. Also, a lot of other things.

 

I agree it is very unhealthy. I have told her this, her family has told her this. But, nothing changes.

 

I think I am kind of screwed. Unless I want to take drastic measures. I am trying to figure out what to do - just don't have the answer yet.

 

Then you eat out and let her go without food in the house until she learns to get to the market.

 

Stop doing her errands she COULD be doing herself.

[Sparty97]

When I said ex, I meant your ex, the lady who sent you the letter. She obviously had some pretty devious intentions:

"...wanted to see me before she tied the knot. She wanted to be sure she was making the right choice."

Your then fiance, now wife had a right to be pissed at what she found.

 

[edit] oh now I see the typo in the first sentence of my previous post... the second time I said "ex" I meant it. You are correct, I meant to say your fiance had a right to be pissed. [/edit]

 

If you are over it then why did you say this?

I gotta say man, you sound exactly like my exwife, who I divorced for cheating.

 

And again, the example doesn't matter. Secrets and marriage do not mix.

 

 

Wow... talk about projection.

[John-Dough]

Then you eat out and let her go without food in the house until she learns to get to the market.

 

Stop doing her errands she COULD be doing herself.

 

So, you think I should be a hard ass on these points. You know if I take your suggestion, all hell is going to break loose and it would turn into a berating of me - and I don't know if I can take anymore of that. I know her and I know how she reacts. She makes comments that are hard to forget. Later, usually quite a bit later, she typically would apologize (but I don't know in this situation) I always forgive, but I still remember. Not intentionally, and I really don't hold a grudge - it's just the comments pop into my head and it's hard for me to feel loving towards her.

Edited December 8, 2013 by John-Dough

[Iguanna]

She did this but you still married her. Who is to blame now? Her for doing this thing or you for accepting it?

[John-Dough]

She did this but you still married her. Who is to blame now? Her for doing this thing or you for accepting it?

 

No doubt I am to blame for any lack of privacy in my M. Fortunately, there aren't any. We do have a lot of issues - privacy just isn't one of them.

[MissBee]

Back in the day, before I got married, I was living with my fiancee. One day I came home and she was very upset. I had no idea what it was about. Finally, she confessed that I had received a letter (snail mail) from an old girlfriend, an old girlfriend that I had been engaged to at one time. My current fiancee had destroyed the letter and tossed it in the dumpster. Many years later I found out that the letter was basically an apology for how she had broke things off as she was trying to find her way in life. She was wondering how I was, and told me how much I had meant to her as she was growing up and becoming a woman. She too had become engaged and wanted to see me before she tied the knot. She wanted to be sure she was making the right choice.

 

Anyway, my fiancee stealing that letter and destroying it bothered me at the time, but over the years it bothered me more and more. It still bothers me to this day, obviously. I couldn't understand why she thought she had the right to open a personal letter to me and then to destroy it without letting me see it, not allowing me to make my own decisions.

 

The reason I posted this here is as I read through these various posts, I am surprised at how people go through their significant other's emails, phones, etc. and use keyloggers and polygraphs. I couldn't live like that, no privacy what so ever. It's just not worth it.

 

For some people this kind of behavior is the norm. For me though, it absolutely is not.

 

It is one thing to do such things if you have a strong feeling something is awry and you need to "be sure", but for some people, they actually believe being in a relationship means there are no boundaries whatsoever.

 

Even when I'm in a relationship I respect my partner as different from me and as a human who has a right to space and respect for their stuff, their time, their other relationships etc. In relationships I have never checked anyone's email, opened their mail, listened in on conversations, searched through their stuff, go through their phone or anything. They didn't try to hide these things, neither would I. I had NO desire to check their mail or their phone at all. Even if the phone is ringing and they are in another room, I won't pick it up unless they specifically ask me to do so or sometimes I'll pick it up and hand it to them to answer. If a letter isn't addressed to me but my partner I'm not gonna read it. Yes the two become one and blah blah but I also very much think it is necessary to have some boundaries.

 

I wouldn't necessarily term it "privacy" but just general respect.

[gabgab]

Yes.

 

 

Ew I feel bad for your wife. Im glad she threw out the letter and hope she divorces you. Perhaps she instinctly knew you'd leave her and your heart isn't really fully into her?

[rumbleseat]

I look at it this way. I am a very private person, and my h is the one person that I am willing to trust with everything, and he is the same with me. This is why we share all passwords, computers, ( we only have one cell phone, which we share), we have a joint bank account, we even open each other's "snail mail". we don't actually do this, we don't read each other's emails r social media messages, but we trust each other enough that we can but don't feel the need to. H has his room in our home that is "his" , decorated to his taste and has his hobby items, etc. in it.I want to go in, I go in.

 

It's a huge step for either of us to trust one another like that. Perhaps if someone is more concerned with privacy than they are with being able to trust one another, there is a problem.

[beach]

So, you think I should be a hard ass on these points. You know if I take your suggestion, all hell is going to break loose and it would turn into a berating of me - and I don't know if I can take anymore of that. I know her and I know how she reacts. She makes comments that are hard to forget. Later, usually quite a bit later, she typically would apologize (but I don't know in this situation) I always forgive, but I still remember. Not intentionally, and I really don't hold a grudge - it's just the comments pop into my head and it's hard for me to feel loving towards her.

 

 

So what if she's mad! She needs to learn to participate in the world.

 

When you foo those errands for her - there's no reason for her to learn and grow.

 

 

How boring to live with a spouse that never leaves the house and never invites others in.

 

 

Your wife needs to expand her exposure - and she will never do any of that as long as you are her crutch.

 

 

 

But - I do get the feeling there's more to your simple complaints 20 years later. Something triggered your need for more privacy now.

 

Something you're not telling...?

 

 

And if you don't like the arrangement - divorce is simple these days.