Placing Blame

[bubbaganoosh]

I found out about my second wife's affair after we split up. I had a daughter with her and just wanted to end it without any hassle. The guy she had the affair with had other ideas.

 

He was a block head and couldn't leave well enough alone and came to my job site and told me that he had no intentions of coming between me and my daughter. I told him that I didn't want to here it and for him to not worry about me and my kid. We have a good relationship.

 

I guess he didn't like what I said so he kept showing up and started to bring his co workers and making comments, hoping it would get under my skin.

 

What he didn't know was that his wife contacted me and she and I had a few talks about the affair and I told her about her husbands cheap shots and she was also pissed off about it.

 

One thing led to another and she and I got a bit closer and one day the closeness took us into my bed. Then it happened again and we decided to stop because I didn't want her to get into trouble.

 

Yeah, he kept up the snide remarks and I finally told him that he was the better man and I can't compete with such a stud and the fool took it all in and started popping buttons off his shirt with his swagger and to this day he has no idea that payback came around and bit him in the ass.

 

I know and no one has to tell me that two wrongs don't make a right. It was the wrong thing to do but if he would have just let it go, I would have never discovered that cute little tattoo on his wife's butt.

[thecharade]

Morgoth,

 

I hesitate to say this, but I do get what you are trying to say. As a former MOW, I felt much the same way for many years. And (as I said in another thread) our MC (who is also my H's IC) agreed with my complaints and saw how much work I had done. BUT, he then turned to my H and said,"You are probably feeling attacked, terrible, and you are wondering what her role was in this. Well, SHE let you live in the dark. She never showed you how much she was suffering--just complained a little and then put on a cheery face. She made you believe things were not perfect but ok. And they were not!!! She let your marriage deteriorate like this. Why did she not force these issues years ago???!!!"

 

He was right. Why did I not speak up, tell my H flat out, "Fix these things or I'm leaving! Fix these things or I'm getting a boyfriend!" But I didn't. I suffered for years. Then I had an A to "fix it." I only made things worse. How could I blame him when I had never been fully clear about my feelings and the consequences of his actions? When I handed him a list of our bills, divided into Yours and Mine, he finally got it and started doing the work. I already had my luggage out of the crawl space. He had to see it was THAT bad before he fought to save it.

 

We WSs need to own that we had negative feelings and didn't share them. We were conflict avoidant. We were codependent. Whatever. But we were not honest.

 

Your plan only works if:

You are fine with getting a divorce.

You are fine with your wife eventually leaving you.

You are fine with "playing" another woman, as well.

You are fine with locking all of your emotions up tight and numbing yourself.

You are fine never truly loving either woman since you will know in your heart everyday that you are wronging them both.

 

Your "solution" brings these truths. I wasn't fine with any of it, so I ended my A. I don't know if my M will make it, but at least I am in only one R. The R will make it or will end, and that is a truth that I must face. Fear and all. Unhappiness and all.

 

Honestly, good luck. I wish the pain of all this on no one.

[sweet_pea]

WS is 100% responsible for their actions and 'part' within the affair and AP is 100% responsible for their actions and 'part' within the affair. Boom.

[experiencethedevine]

WS is 100% responsible for their actions and 'part' within the affair and AP is 100% responsible for their actions and 'part' within the affair. Boom.

 

 

 

 

I would say that's just about as accurate one can jolly well get when blame is apportioned sweetpea!

[thecharade]

That is "boom" why my husband will never know about the affair. In my situation, he fixes stuff or he's gone. In my situation, he wants the M and needs to win me back.

 

My A was an exit A.

Not every A is the same.

Boom.

[sweet_pea]

That is "boom" why my husband will never know about the affair. In my situation, he fixes stuff or he's gone. In my situation, he wants the M and needs to win me back.

 

My A was an exit A.

Not every A is the same.

Boom.

 

I'm not sure if this was directed at me, but I don't really see the connection to my post and yours. So your husband will never know about your affair because? Also... if your A was an exit A, why are you still married?

[ladydesigner]

That is "boom" why my husband will never know about the affair. In my situation, he fixes stuff or he's gone. In my situation, he wants the M and needs to win me back.

 

My A was an exit A.

Not every A is the same.

Boom.

 

If my WH had your attitude he would have already been out the door!

[Ringa78]

I think the anger is towards the spouse. The OW/M is just someone you might want to kill or injure...but in the end you dont really care about them. LOL

[goodyblue]

WS is 100% responsible for their actions and 'part' within the affair and AP is 100% responsible for their actions and 'part' within the affair. Boom.

 

 

I will begin the way I always do: I wish my relationship had not started in an affair. The reasons are many. Number one on the list is that we feel bad about the hurt we caused.

 

Number two, however, is the fact that, because of the affair, stbxw now refuses to look inward at all into why my guy was so damned unhappy in his marriage to her. Now it is all about the affair, rather than about what led up to it.

 

So, you are right, the affair is on the MM/MW and the OM/OW. But what led up to the affair is on the BS and MM/MW.

 

I understand it is popular to just blame the affair partner, but really, if you plan to reconcile, BS must look at the problems in the marriage. I laugh when I read about how the MM has to grovel and do any number of humiliating things in order to get in good with the BS. Does the BS really think he/she has no culpibility in the breakdown of the marriage? That's what we are talking about, and that is what gets glossed over. I agree that it is the decision of the MM to embark on an affair, but the BS must admit that the marriage was in trouble long before the affair in most cases.

[sweet_pea]

I will begin the way I always do: I wish my relationship had not started in an affair. The reasons are many. Number one on the list is that we feel bad about the hurt we caused.

 

Number two, however, is the fact that, because of the affair, stbxw now refuses to look inward at all into why my guy was so damned unhappy in his marriage to her. Now it is all about the affair, rather than about what led up to it.

 

So, you are right, the affair is on the MM/MW and the OM/OW. But what led up to the affair is on the BS and MM/MW.

 

I understand it is popular to just blame the affair partner, but really, if you plan to reconcile, BS must look at the problems in the marriage. I laugh when I read about how the MM has to grovel and do any number of humiliating things in order to get in good with the BS. Does the BS really think he/she has no culpibility in the breakdown of the marriage? That's what we are talking about, and that is what gets glossed over. I agree that it is the decision of the MM to embark on an affair, but the BS must admit that the marriage was in trouble long before the affair in most cases.

 

I don't think this thread was about the marriage, but since you felt like bringing it up, yes, the issues within the marriage are between the BS and WS. Can you give an example of a humiliating act that you've seen WS need to do? Now, I didn't see you mention the WS facing responsibility for their parts of the marriage breakdown or anything like that and I wasn't sure if that was a mistake or because you feel that only the BS makes the mistakes?

[goodyblue]

I don't think this thread was about the marriage, but since you felt like bringing it up, yes, the issues within the marriage are between the BS and WS. Can you give an example of a humiliating act that you've seen WS need to do? Now, I didn't see you mention the WS facing responsibility for their parts of the marriage breakdown or anything like that and I wasn't sure if that was a mistake or because you feel that only the BS makes the mistakes?

 

I wasn't talking about marriage. I was talking about who is to blame. You are handing out blame, but only to the AP and the WS. It may be true that the AP and WS were responsible for the affair part of the dynamic, but when it comes to WHY the spouse cheated? Come on, you must take the marriage into account. Do you really think all the women on here had happy wonderful marriages and their husband just decided they wanted some tail? Most cases are a declarative NO.

 

My guy was lonely, miserable, felt unloved and used by his stbx. He was ripe for an affair. We don't like that it was an affair, but it was. He is not a cheater, they'd been together years and years before he cheated. I think the reason this happened is because he was miserable, not because things were fabulous and he just 'felt like it'. SO, what I am saying, again, is that AP and WS must take responsibility for their part in the affair, but the BS must certainly take responsibility for their part in the breakdown of the marriage that usually leads to one. You can say that the WS should have just left, but life is messy, things are not always clean cut.

 

Sorry, I know BS love to play the woe is me card, but they played a part.

[sweet_pea]

I wasn't talking about marriage. I was talking about who is to blame. You are handing out blame, but only to the AP and the WS. It may be true that the AP and WS were responsible for the affair part of the dynamic, but when it comes to WHY the spouse cheated? Come on, you must take the marriage into account. Do you really think all the women on here had happy wonderful marriages and their husband just decided they wanted some tail? Most cases are a declarative NO.

 

My guy was lonely, miserable, felt unloved and used by his stbx. He was ripe for an affair. We don't like that it was an affair, but it was. He is not a cheater, they'd been together years and years before he cheated. I think the reason this happened is because he was miserable, not because things were fabulous and he just 'felt like it'. SO, what I am saying, again, is that AP and WS must take responsibility for their part in the affair, but the BS must certainly take responsibility for their part in the breakdown of the marriage that usually leads to one. You can say that the WS should have just left, but life is messy, things are not always clean cut.

 

Sorry, I know BS love to play the woe is me card, but they played a part.

 

Once again, are you saying that the WS had no responsibility for the breakdown either? I agree, BS had a share in the marital issues but BS isn't married to themselves. Most BS that I have seen DO take responsibility for marriage issues and I read multiple infidelity forums. But anyways, you have your opinion and I have mine. I don't feel like thread jacking further... Sorry, ED!

Edited December 31, 2013 by sweet_pea

[Arieswoman]

I have seen it repeatedly posted on this site that while the decision to cheat was 100% the fault of the WS, there was a deterioration in the marriage that was the fault of both (married) parties.

 

I agree in principle, however, what can the BS do when the WS won't talk or communicate?

 

I spent 6 months trying to get my exH to talk about what was bothering him. I knew something was wrong but was told that " you're imagining things", "it would be fine if you stopped nagging me", "I'll sort my own problems out". "Just leave me alone". I asked him outright if there was 'someone else' and was told "are you so stupid that you think I would risk all I have here for an affair". And this was at the same time as it was going on, unbeknown to me !

 

I spent 6 months knocking myself out doing all the domestic duties as well as holding down a responsible job, in order to keep things "nice" at home for him. I ignored and put up with his snide remarks, put downs, sulks and nasty comments, because I thought he was under stress at work.

 

Even when I finally snapped and told him I would have no more of it and I was leaving, he didn't change. He just told me " you can't afford to live on your own".

This puzzled me because if he had wanted out of the marriage that was his chance and he could have helped me look for alternative accomodation.

 

IMO some of us BS are getting blamed inappropriately here. If I could have done anything to save the marriage then I would, but I was never given the chance.

 

Rant over.

[goodyblue]

Once again, are you saying that the WS had no responsibility for the breakdown either? I agree, BS had a share in the marital issues but BS isn't married to themselves. Most BS that I have seen DO take responsibility for marriage issues and I read multiple infidelity forums. But anyways, you have your opinion and I have mine. I don't feel like thread jacking further... Sorry, ED!

 

Absolutely not. I believe that the WS had as much to do with the breakdown of the marriage as the BS. But that is something that is rarely addressed. You must admit, it is mostly about how angry the BS is at WS and OW when really, the best thing they can do for themselves is to look at the relationship, how it failed, their part in it, and to do better.

 

That's all I'm saying. I don't deny my part in my guy having an A. I know I am partly to blame for what we did together. But what I am NOT partly to blame for, is the breakdown of their M, which led to the A. Sorry, it just did, in my case, anyway.

 

So, all I am saying is, when placing blame, we all need to take our part, without trying to throw it onto everyone else. What good does that do? What growth comes from blaming everyone else? None.

 

You keep crying T/J, but it isn't. We're talking about blame. So, I take the blame for my part, so does my guy. But so should she, as the BS.

 

Aries, I hear what you are saying, but perhaps the way to handle it would have been to deal with the problems as they arose, rather than the last six months, when it was too late. I know that sounds harsh, but it's true.

[experiencethedevine]

I have seen it repeatedly posted on this site that while the decision to cheat was 100% the fault of the WS, there was a deterioration in the marriage that was the fault of both (married) parties.

 

I agree in principle, however, what can the BS do when the WS won't talk or communicate?

 

I spent 6 months trying to get my exH to talk about what was bothering him. I knew something was wrong but was told that " you're imagining things", "it would be fine if you stopped nagging me", "I'll sort my own problems out". "Just leave me alone". I asked him outright if there was 'someone else' and was told "are you so stupid that you think I would risk all I have here for an affair". And this was at the same time as it was going on, unbeknown to me !

 

I spent 6 months knocking myself out doing all the domestic duties as well as holding down a responsible job, in order to keep things "nice" at home for him. I ignored and put up with his snide remarks, put downs, sulks and nasty comments, because I thought he was under stress at work.

 

Even when I finally snapped and told him I would have no more of it and I was leaving, he didn't change. He just told me " you can't afford to live on your own".

This puzzled me because if he had wanted out of the marriage that was his chance and he could have helped me look for alternative accomodation.

 

IMO some of us BS are getting blamed inappropriately here. If I could have done anything to save the marriage then I would, but I was never given the chance.

 

Rant over.

 

 

 

I would be inclined to agree with this in the majority. Goodyblue states that BS fail to take responsibility for their part in the marital demise.

 

 

While all circumstances are different in each affair, I would categorically state that from my experience, and not just personal but professional also, while there are a number of BS who fail to take responsibility for marital issues in the event of discovery of an affair, there is a distinctly higher number of BS who have made valiant attempts to address marital issues with their husbands, before an affair and during it as well as after the event.

 

 

The saddest circumstances in my opinion are the ones in which a wife has no knowledge of the affair and is making gargantuan efforts to address what is 'wrong' in her marriage while her husband fails to communicate effectively to resolve issues because he is distracting himself by getting his rocks off elsewhere.

 

 

It is not a question of being a 'victim' at all. There is no integrity in failing to do what is right because it's too much effort/hassle/grief. 'Woe is me' still belongs firmly to the wayward who hasn't the gumption to face their own demons and act.

 

 

It comes full circle to the age old, 'if it isn't working and you don't like it, get out before you foul your own doorstep'.

 

 

A betrayed spouse is never in any way shape or form responsible for a wayward spouses poor choices. Ever.

[goodyblue]

Good to know. If this is the case, then of course, the WS does not have anything at all to do with how the BS responds. I mean really, we are all responsible for ourselves. So the failure to give one's husband what they need in order to not stray lays solely on the BS.

 

Yeah, doesn't sound very good does it?

 

Let's face it, this is a very muddled territory and the blame shifting doesn't just come from the WS or OM/OW.

 

I'm just saying here, that I take responsibility in my part of the affair. So the married couple should take responsibility in their part of the affair. I will say that in most cases, not all, but most, that there were signs of the decline of the marriage long before the affair began and nothing was done. Only when the BS feels their partner finally disengage do they panic and try to fix it. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But BS's love to play victim. Take control of your lives and stop being that.

[road]

Perhaps my terminology was not quite what I had intended. I certainly didn't intend to allude that ALL responsibility is directed at the other person, rather that it is my professional experience that the largest proportion of the responsibility is initially directed at the AP by virtue of shock symptoms and reactions.

 

It was not my intention to cause any offence with the enquiry, and if I have misguided you in the phrasing of it, my apologies.

 

 

 

 

 

Your are over thinking things. And, still using a poor choice of words. The anger is there towards the WS and the AP.

 

 

However it makes sense that with 78% of marriages staying together after an affair that to do so the anger for the WS must be let go.

 

 

The anger remains forever for the AP because their is no reason to ever forgive the AP.

 

 

If the AP never was in my WS life this affair would of not happened. The AP should drop dead. End of story.

[experiencethedevine]

Good to know. If this is the case, then of course, the WS does not have anything at all to do with how the BS responds. I mean really, we are all responsible for ourselves. So the failure to give one's husband what they need in order to not stray lays solely on the BS.

 

Yeah, doesn't sound very good does it?

 

Let's face it, this is a very muddled territory and the blame shifting doesn't just come from the WS or OM/OW.

 

I'm just saying here, that I take responsibility in my part of the affair. So the married couple should take responsibility in their part of the affair. I will say that in most cases, not all, but most, that there were signs of the decline of the marriage long before the affair began and nothing was done. Only when the BS feels their partner finally disengage do they panic and try to fix it. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But BS's love to play victim. Take control of your lives and stop being that.

 

 

 

 

The only real 'victims' in any affair, irrespective of the failings of the adults involved are any children who have to suffer the consequences of it frankly, so I vehemently disagree that the BS 'loves to play the victim' as you suggest.

 

 

The FACT is, like it or not, that the affair is conducted in clandestine conditions, involves the spouse in an open marriage without either knowledge or consent. Blame lies squarely and firmly with the lying cheat with whom the BS lives unwittingly, regardless of the difficulties of resolving marital distress.

 

 

The person having no knowledge of their involvement in an open marriage is the recipient of wilful alienation of affection and emotional abuse, whether we like it or not. FACT.

[experiencethedevine]

Your are over thinking things. And, still using a poor choice of words. The anger is there towards the WS and the AP.

 

 

However it makes sense that with 78% of marriages staying together after an affair that to do so the anger for the WS must be let go.

 

 

The anger remains forever for the AP because their is no reason to ever forgive the AP.

 

 

If the AP never was in my WS life this affair would of not happened. The AP should drop dead. End of story.

 

 

Thinking is my livelihood, but thankyou for your enlightenment.

[Arieswoman]

Goodyblue, You said

 

Aries, I hear what you are saying, but perhaps the way to handle it would have been to deal with the problems as they arose, rather than the last six months, when it was too late. I know that sounds harsh, but it's true.

 

What "problems"?

 

I was not aware of any "problems" until my husband started to behave like a total $hi£.

If he had been in any way dissatisfied with the status quo then he had a responsibility to bring that to my attention so we could both deal with it. That is the mature, adult, way of conflict resolution in relationships.

 

He chose not to do so.

 

He decided, without consulting me, that sneaking off and banging someone else was somehow going to fix whatever it was he was unhappy about.

 

That, to me, indicates serious character flaws and an inability to deal with reality.

 

BS's can't deal with what they don't know about, we are not mind readers.

[cozycottagelg]

 

 

The anger remains forever for the AP because their is no reason to ever forgive the AP.

 

 

If the AP never was in my WS life this affair would of not happened. The AP should drop dead. End of story.

 

I agree with the first line, the second however... yes, THAT affair might not have happened, but another very well could have. Drop dead seems pretty harsh if a partner is willing to R with the other person in that exact same affair.

[goodyblue]

Goodyblue, You said

 

 

 

What "problems"?

 

I was not aware of any "problems" until my husband started to behave like a total $hi£.

If he had been in any way dissatisfied with the status quo then he had a responsibility to bring that to my attention so we could both deal with it. That is the mature, adult, way of conflict resolution in relationships.

 

He chose not to do so.

 

He decided, without consulting me, that sneaking off and banging someone else was somehow going to fix whatever it was he was unhappy about.

 

That, to me, indicates serious character flaws and an inability to deal with reality.

 

BS's can't deal with what they don't know about, we are not mind readers.

 

It is not anyone's problem but your own and your partners that the two of you were not in sync enough, close enough, open enough to discuss problems in your marriage. Obviously there were problems or there would not have been an affair. I'm sure now that there has been an affair, your eyes are open to all of the problems.

[goodyblue]

Goodyblue, You said

 

 

 

What "problems"?

 

I was not aware of any "problems" until my husband started to behave like a total $hi£.

If he had been in any way dissatisfied with the status quo then he had a responsibility to bring that to my attention so we could both deal with it. That is the mature, adult, way of conflict resolution in relationships.

 

He chose not to do so.

 

He decided, without consulting me, that sneaking off and banging someone else was somehow going to fix whatever it was he was unhappy about.

 

That, to me, indicates serious character flaws and an inability to deal with reality.

 

BS's can't deal with what they don't know about, we are not mind readers.

 

Did you stay with your husband? Because honestly, I would never take part in a relationship with someone who did this to me.

[Arieswoman]

goodyblue,

You said

It is not anyone's problem but your own and your partners that the two of you were not in sync enough, close enough, open enough to discuss problems in your marriage.

 

I do not accept this.

 

I am not responsible for anyone's behaviour apart from my own. I was not responsible for my ex-husband's inability to communicate.

 

Obviously there were problems or there would not have been an affair.

 

Obviously, my ex-husband had problems. He chose not to disclose these to me. I am not responsible for his choices.

 

I'm sure now that there has been an affair, your eyes are open to all of the problems.

 

I am no longer married to that man. I divorced him because of the affair. I never got an explanation as to what problems he had. He told me a long time afterwards that he took responsibility for the affair and the marriage breakup but couldn't tell me why he did it.

[goodyblue]

The only real 'victims' in any affair, irrespective of the failings of the adults involved are any children who have to suffer the consequences of it frankly, so I vehemently disagree that the BS 'loves to play the victim' as you suggest.

 

 

The FACT is, like it or not, that the affair is conducted in clandestine conditions, involves the spouse in an open marriage without either knowledge or consent. Blame lies squarely and firmly with the lying cheat with whom the BS lives unwittingly, regardless of the difficulties of resolving marital distress.

 

 

The person having no knowledge of their involvement in an open marriage is the recipient of wilful alienation of affection and emotional abuse, whether we like it or not. FACT.

 

Fair enough. You believe you, or any BS, had nothing to do with their partner straying. Let's hear then how there was nothing lacking. Nothing leading up to the affair. That there was not obviously an end to open communication. You KNOW there was. So fine. The affair was nothing to do with you, but what led up to it certainly was.