Placing Blame

[Arieswoman]

Goodyblue,

You said

 

I find it irritating that the affair is the only focus when the real focus should be on why the marriage failed. That is the real issue.

 

No it isn't.

 

The focus should be on why the WH felt that sticking his **** in another woman it would cure any problems (he thought) he had with the marriage.

 

In addition, affairs are planned and executed in the full knowledge that they could irretrevely damage the primary relationship(s).

 

So you have a guy who has problems (real or imagined) in his marriage and he goes and does something that could pretty well blow the whole thing to $hi£r@gs. Where is the maturity or logic in that?

[cozycottagelg]

Goodyblue,

You said

 

 

 

No it isn't.

 

The focus should be on why the WH felt that sticking his **** in another woman it would cure any problems (he thought) he had with the marriage.

 

In addition, affairs are planned and executed in the full knowledge that they could irretrevely damage the primary relationship(s).

 

So you have a guy who has problems (real or imagined) in his marriage and he goes and does something that could pretty well blow the whole thing to $hi£r@gs. Where is the maturity or logic in that?

 

The focus needs to be on the marriage as a whole. Obviously an affair isn't an answer to ANY problem...but in order to have a successful R, you need to work on everything.

[rumbleseat]

The blame lies squarely on the head of the person who made the decision to cheat. For whatever reason, at that point in time, they saw having and affair as an acceptable option. They were okay with it (otherwise, they wouldn't have done it).

 

The idea that a bs could somehow force someone to cheat is along the same tack as the idea that an ow/om can force a spouse to cheat even if they don't want to.

 

I realize that many "others" desperately want to believe that the ws only cheated because of a bad marriage, but that simply isn't so. They cheated because they thought that it was an acceptable action for them to take. That doesn't go away simply because they are with someone new, and if they do it once, they learn that it can be a tool to handle their negative feelings.

 

Unless they learn new behaviours patterns, they may very likely fall back into unhealthy ones when things get tough.

[cozycottagelg]

The blame lies squarely on the head of the person who made the decision to cheat. For whatever reason, at that point in time, they saw having and affair as an acceptable option. They were okay with it (otherwise, they wouldn't have done it).

 

The idea that a bs could somehow force someone to cheat is along the same tack as the idea that an ow/om can force a spouse to cheat even if they don't want to.

 

I realize that many "others" desperately want to believe that the ws only cheated because of a bad marriage, but that simply isn't so. They cheated because they thought that it was an acceptable action for them to take. That doesn't go away simply because they are with someone new, and if they do it once, they learn that it can be a tool to handle their negative feelings.

 

Unless they learn new behaviours patterns, they may very likely fall back into unhealthy ones when things get tough.

 

The blame of an affair always rests on the spouse who chose to cheat. Agree completely. I just think that during R, you need to work on all the issues in the marriage.

[rumbleseat]

The blame of an affair always rests on the spouse who chose to cheat. Agree completely. I just think that during R, you need to work on all the issues in the marriage.

 

 

Makes sense.

 

The ws also needs to figure out why they saw cheating as an acceptable method to solve their problems, as if they don't, they may fall back into that behavior pattern if things get rough again.

[cozycottagelg]

Makes sense.

 

The ws also needs to figure out why they saw cheating as an acceptable method to solve their problems, as if they don't, they may fall back into that behavior pattern if things get rough again.

 

I don't think that a WS necessarily thinks cheating is going to solve a problem. To me it would seem like more of a distraction from their problems.

[rumbleseat]

I don't think that a WS necessarily thinks cheating is going to solve a problem. To me it would seem like more of a distraction from their problems.

 

Maybe so.

Whatever the reason, they need to learn other ways of dealing with things. If they cheat because they are unhappy, they need to learn better ways of finding happiness in their marriage. If they cheated because of some passive aggressive reason, they need to learn better ways of letting their spouse know they have a problem with something in their marriage. If they cheat because of something lacking, then find other ways to fill that void.

 

If they cheat because they just don't want to be married anymore but they are too frightened to leave, then they need to grow a backbone and not use someone else as their safe landing spot or emotional sponge. It's not fair to the "other", and it's not fair to the bs.

[experiencethedevine]

My own experience when I cheated was very much like your boyfriend's. I was in a bad relationship, and I was very much "ripe" to develop feelings for someone who treated me how I deserved to be treated. My ex was an awful person to me in many ways, and I tried to address the problems I had in the relationship but was met with a brick wall. Trapped in an abuse cycle, I was unable to leave without solid ground to catch me. My A provided me with that, although my OM and I did not get together officially right away after I left.

 

However, the reality of As seems to be that exit affairs are few and far in-between, and many WS are very much cake eaters. They make no real steps to end their M while feeding their AP with excuses as to why they can't leave--excuses like "my wife will take the kids!" and "my BS will take everything I have!" that make it clear the WS has never even met with a divorce attorney to figure out what their options are. When a d-day occurs, they go running back to the BS with their tail in-between their legs like a kid caught with their hand in the candy jar. It doesn't apply to all situations, of course, but it appears to be a running theme. As a researcher, I have to go where my observations and data take me. Thus, even though my hypothesis doesn't fall in line with my own experiences, I believe it to be true. If the data was telling me something else, I would adjust my view accordingly. I have an ethical obligation to report my findings exactly as they are and to try as much as possible not to let personal biases affect my work.

 

 

 

I agree that it is sad, but it's something that comes with the territory of an A. The ability to think rationally about As is blinded by the intense pain the BS often feels, and that pain can take years to subside. The BS in your situation not only suffers from the pain caused by the A but also the devastating blow to the ego that comes with being left for someone else. It will take her a while to heal. To feel true empathy for her, you must understand how her behavior is nothing more than a coping mechanism. At the end of the day, she has suffered a great deal, and her behavior is part of the grieving process of losing her marriage. She's entitled to that little bit of comfort because it's probably all she has right now to keep her from going off the deep end.

 

Unless she has already started dating again and is repeating the same pattern, I wouldn't say her inability to address her issues will necessarily cause problems in future relationships, unless the kind of behavior we're talking about is something like alcoholism or addiction. The things that went in their M may very much be the product of her dynamic with her xH and may not be an issue in other relationships. Furthermore, once the pain dies down and becomes the bliss of indifference, she may finally get to a point to where she can see clearly and work on herself. It's just going to a very long time for her to get there.

 

I think you also need to acknowledge that, as the OW in her situation, you really have no place to pass judgement on her actions and how she heals unless you, too, have been in her exact shoes before. From an outside perspective, it seems cruel to acknowledge your part in her pain but show judgement for how she is choosing to cope with that pain. Your words may be true and may come from a place of good intentions, but they will never be seen that way--by her or anyone else. As the fOW, it just isn't your place. Hopefully, she has friends and family who help her one day realize these things and work toward improving herself and her relationships. You should focus on trying to understand the why behind her actions and not on what she should be doing. How she'll behave once she's had more time to heal will be nothing like how she's behaving now while still in pain.

 

 

I agree. The other woman has no idea of the anguish and torment the betrayed wife bears. Likely very underestimated by virtue of being unable to adequately express it in all likelihood.

 

 

whatever her methods of recovery from such a terrible blow to her self esteem the other woman, especially if the husband left the marriage to be with her, might benefit (especially if children are involved) by affording this destroyed woman some sympathetic acknowledgement of her demise, which would certainly help her cause. Making judgment regarding her coping skills and self analysis is patronising to say the least.

 

 

Never mind that there may have been 'issues' within the marriage that contributed to its collapse, the FACT remains that the other woman was the third element in that triangle, and while she sits back and reaps the rewards of her 'out in the open' relationship with her former married man, she would also be wise to take sincere caution lest, as laurel states, he resorts to previous behavioural coping mechanisms when things get tough in THEIR relationship.

 

 

 

 

'There but for the grace of God go I'

[atreides]

I will never understand the rational of tying infidelity to marriage problems. Doing so is non sequitur; moreover, there are few examples where infidelity is a direct consequence.

 

Infidelity or perhaps to be more specific.. adultery, I do not like to use the word "cheating" it has come to define too broad a meaning. The definition is important, because i do not subscribe to "cheating" prior to "getting engaged" or cultural equivalent. No matter how much one wants to white wash "marriage" as contracts or government schemes and the sort... the fact of the matter is "social layers" exist based on our own behaviors. That is why we have tiers of commitment from discovery, exploration to flirting with commitment it to finally affirming it.

 

The argument about the measurement of pain is also non sequitur. We are not defining the result of what one feels; but, as with the tiers of social commitment which is an escalation of choices knowingly so too is the road to an A. That is the context asked when asking about blame.

 

Marriages will always have problems, that is its own island of an ever unchanging understood truth.

 

The reasons for adultery exist on another island, mostly to be resolved by those that stray. The choices made for whatever perception they who strayed may have are more to do with themselves and more than anything it was not a short road but one of many choices and stages that they knowingly went through.

 

The blame for adultery will always be on the shoulders of those that stray. To bring up problems within the marriage is deflection from their own reasons for doing so... apples and oranges.

[AlwaysGrowing]

Let's not get things twisted here.

 

An AP, who listened to the WS tale of marriage woes, decided to have sex with the WS. They never advised....like a healthy person would....get help,lawyer,work on issues. None of that. They had sex with the WS.

 

 

For an AP, to now come forward and say.....the BS really should have worked on the marriage or even better yet.....the WS should have worked on issues...I find comical.

 

 

Where exactly was all that wonderful advice when it WOULD have mattered?

 

 

It seems many AP, are trying to alleviate their own guilt over their own choice to get involved with a married person.

 

 

Even if the WS/BS had major/minor issues in their marriage, it really doesn't explain why the AP got involved. An AP has no grievances with the BS, most have never even met the BS. Yet, they still decided to hurt another.

 

 

Personally, the burden of carrying the knowledge that I intentionally hurt another who never did anything to me.....would be devastating. And it would be so much easier to put some of blame on them. I guess that is why we read so often an AP holding the BS feet to the fire, when they never held themselves to the same standard of conduct.

[ladydesigner]

Absolutely not. I believe that the WS had as much to do with the breakdown of the marriage as the BS. But that is something that is rarely addressed. You must admit, it is mostly about how angry the BS is at WS and OW when really, the best thing they can do for themselves is to look at the relationship, how it failed, their part in it, and to do better.

 

That's all I'm saying. I don't deny my part in my guy having an A. I know I am partly to blame for what we did together. But what I am NOT partly to blame for, is the breakdown of their M, which led to the A. Sorry, it just did, in my case, anyway.

 

So, all I am saying is, when placing blame, we all need to take our part, without trying to throw it onto everyone else. What good does that do? What growth comes from blaming everyone else? None.

 

You keep crying T/J, but it isn't. We're talking about blame. So, I take the blame for my part, so does my guy. But so should she, as the BS.

 

Aries, I hear what you are saying, but perhaps the way to handle it would have been to deal with the problems as they arose, rather than the last six months, when it was too late. I know that sounds harsh, but it's true.

 

OMG seriously if I have to take blame for my WH's A please kill me now. But no I don't and won't EVER. I will however take blame for our marriage breakdown which does not give someone the greenlight to have an A. I am one who will not fight for my man if he wants to go.

[ladydesigner]

The blame lies squarely on the head of the person who made the decision to cheat. For whatever reason, at that point in time, they saw having and affair as an acceptable option. They were okay with it (otherwise, they wouldn't have done it).

 

The idea that a bs could somehow force someone to cheat is along the same tack as the idea that an ow/om can force a spouse to cheat even if they don't want to.

 

I realize that many "others" desperately want to believe that the ws only cheated because of a bad marriage, but that simply isn't so. They cheated because they thought that it was an acceptable action for them to take. That doesn't go away simply because they are with someone new, and if they do it once, they learn that it can be a tool to handle their negative feelings.

 

Unless they learn new behaviours patterns, they may very likely fall back into unhealthy ones when things get tough.

 

This is absolutely why my WH had his A's. I have always been the optimistic one, happy, successful, breadwinner, etc. My WH has always seemed to struggle with his stress and how he copes with it. Unfortunately it has led to more than one A. Not only this but also combined with his Foo issues a double whammy. My WH clearly regrets his choices today. He can never erase it and that is the fact that bothers him the most.

[goodyblue]

OMG seriously if I have to take blame for my WH's A please kill me now. But no I don't and won't EVER. I will however take blame for our marriage breakdown which does not give someone the greenlight to have an A. I am one who will not fight for my man if he wants to go.

 

 

I'm fairly certain that is what I said in my post.

[ladydesigner]

Deleted post for misunderstanding :-)

Edited January 2, 2014 by ladydesigner

[ladydesigner]

Sorry I refuse to take blame for an act so heinous. In my case both my WH and the MOW gaslit me. They were playing a cruel game with me that turned sour for them in the end. I'm sorry but no one is to blame for the A but the WS and the AP, plain and simple.

[experiencethedevine]

Sorry I refuse to take blame for an act so heinous. In my case both my WH and the MOW gaslit me. They were playing a cruel game with me that turned sour for them in the end. I'm sorry but no one is to blame for the A but the WS and the AP, plain and simple.

 

 

 

 

 

 

You have absolutely nothing to be sorry for ladydesigner.

 

 

It was indeed a cruel and spiteful game to play, of which you were not even aware until their shenanigans were revealed.

 

 

Did you lay yourself on the floor willingly for each of them to p*** all over you? No.

 

 

No, my dear, you have nothing to be sorry for.

[cocorico]

cocorico,

you said

 

 

 

If this is the case - and I don't doubt it could happen - why would the WS stay in such a situation? Why would they choose to be unhappy for so long?

 

Doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

 

Because they have been trained and reared to place their own happiness last, and to attend to their duties and obligations first. Which means, keeping the family intact to protect the kids against the trauma of separation.

[experiencethedevine]

Because they have been trained and reared to place their own happiness last, and to attend to their duties and obligations first. Which means, keeping the family intact to protect the kids against the trauma of separation.

 

 

Tosh.....If the wayward is so 'honourable' lets be frank, he would be doing all those things without being involved in an affair.

 

 

 

 

My husband was not 'trained and reared' to attend to his 'duties' by his parents at all. Neither did he put his feelings 'last'.

 

 

Anyone involving themselves in an affair is certainly not putting themselves 'last', that's ridiculous.

 

 

As for protecting the children, are they protected against the crisis of a dday? No. They are always the ones who end up persecuted by their 'trained and dutiful' parent's lack of forethought .............

 

 

So much rot about staying with the wife out of duty! He stays because the alternative is not attractive enough to make him leave.

[ladydesigner]

So much rot about staying with the wife out of duty! He stays because the alternative is not attractive enough to make him leave.

 

I have to say this is true for my past revenge affair and my WH's last A with MOW. I never once begged for my WH to stay, if anything I was doing everything in my power to make him leave including having rages at him. Thank god I got myself into therapy and got better with no help from him of course. Now my WH self reflects and his A is killing him. The way he went about hurting me is beyond describable. The MOW mocked and laughed at me through their A and during false R. I would never wish this treatment on anybody not even the MOW. I was treated like an enemy by my WH and I had no clue why.

[experiencethedevine]

I have to say this is true for my past revenge affair and my WH's last A with MOW. I never once begged for my WH to stay, if anything I was doing everything in my power to make him leave including having rages at him. Thank god I got myself into therapy and got better with no help from him of course. Now my WH self reflects and his A is killing him. The way he went about hurting me is beyond describable. The MOW mocked and laughed at me through their A and during false R. I would never wish this treatment on anybody not even the MOW. I was treated like an enemy by my WH and I had no clue why.

 

 

 

 

I too was ridiculed by my husband's other woman, surreptitiously spied on. What an awful person she was/is (we still get the odd interruption), though my husband was behaving as normally(?) as I suppose he could, like you I had no idea.......

 

 

Vile, simply vile. You have my complete empathy LadyD.

[drifter777]

I've said this many times but some of you don't know my story so here it is again.

 

I don't blame the OM (2 of them) at all because my wife offered easy, no-strings sex and they jumped on her. She was young (25) and good looking so there's not many guys who would turn that down. She is 100% to blame. Period.

 

I will admit that when I trigger and the rage hits me (which still happens from time-to-time) I imagine myself shoving a 9-inch fillet knife through their temple. I can clearly picture doing this and it calms me down. It is a release to have such a vivid image of murdering them. At these times I still feel pure contempt and disgust for my cheating wife, but I have no thoughts of violence toward her. Those fits of rage I get when something triggers my memory pass pretty quickly but are just as intense as ever. The only person in danger when the rage flashes is me.

[goodyblue]

Tosh.....If the wayward is so 'honourable' lets be frank, he would be doing all those things without being involved in an affair.

 

 

 

 

My husband was not 'trained and reared' to attend to his 'duties' by his parents at all. Neither did he put his feelings 'last'.

 

 

Anyone involving themselves in an affair is certainly not putting themselves 'last', that's ridiculous.

 

 

As for protecting the children, are they protected against the crisis of a dday? No. They are always the ones who end up persecuted by their 'trained and dutiful' parent's lack of forethought .............

 

 

So much rot about staying with the wife out of duty! He stays because the alternative is not attractive enough to make him leave.

 

Actually this WAS true of my guy. He was in the marriage out of obligation only and when I came around we fought our feelings a lot. Finally, the decision was made that the a was the lesser of two evils. And sometimes they know they can't divorce, but are so tired of living life alone emotionally that affairs occur.

 

I get that this is not always the case, but in mine it certainly was.

[rumbleseat]

Having an affair is certainly not an honourable act, no matter how much someone wants to have it seem to be the case.

 

It's really quite sad that so many , both bs and om/ow are willing to make excuses for the person they are with.

 

When one thinks about it, if a person is willing to do this, do they really love the person as much as they claim, or do they love an idealized, fantasy version of them that really doesn't exist anywhere but in their own mind?

 

A person who has made the choice to have an A ( and make no mistake, no matter how it happened, whether it was planned or it "just sort of happened...we certainly were not looking for this type of thing to happen" it is a choice) is fully responsible for that action. No amount of excuses or "reasons" will change that.

 

Until a ws ( and the bs or former om/ow, should the affair become a regular relationship) is willing to face that, and take full emotional responsibility for it, that part of them will still be there. Perhaps it will lay dormant for a long time, but add stress to the relationship, and old behavior patterns can come back into play.

 

BTW...I am always quite bemused when people use the excuse " we weren't looking for an affair, it just sort of happened", and then they go on to discuss how the marriage was bad. It's as if someone should extrapolate from that situation that the ws had no choice but to cheat if they were to find happiness.

 

So on the one hand, the person isn't looking for an affair, they may even be trying to avoid one but somehow they slide into one without realizing it, and on the other hand, their marriage is bad (usually 99% of the time it's said to be the fault of the bs) so they have no choice but to cheat if they want to be happy.

 

Maybe I am too dense to understand, but which is it? Seems to me that if the marriage was bad, then the person may have been a lot more open to an affair than they are willing to admit, and if they weren't very open to an affair then perhaps the marriage isn't as bad as they ( and the om/ow) would like to believe.

 

As far as I can see, the truh usually lies somewhere in the middle. Marriage is going along okay, maybe not great, but not terrible either. Soon to be ws meets someone, they feel an attraction, but rather than ignore it, they feed that attraction and it grows.

All of that is the result of a series of choices that the person made. The person was open to having an affair, as if they weren't they wouldn't have one. Simple as that.

 

Does this mean that the person will forever and always be that way? That depends. For some people who are not willing to take responsibility for their choices and try and blame others for them, it's a pretty fair guess that they will stay as they are. For others who are willing to do the work that it takes to figure out why they made the choices they did and learn from that (and that goes far Beyoncé simply saying all the right things) and is willing to guard against this type of behavior in the future, there is a good chance that they might never cheat again.

 

A bs, or the former ap (should the m end and the A become the new sole relationship) does a disservice to both themselves and their relationship partner if they accept the person placing the blame for the A on the bs. By being willing to accept excuses, they indicate that they are willing to accept poor behavior, and , from my way of thinking, they seem to be saying to the person that they expect nothing better from them.

[krazikat]

I've said this many times but some of you don't know my story so here it is again.

 

I don't blame the OM (2 of them) at all because my wife offered easy, no-strings sex and they jumped on her. She was young (25) and good looking so there's not many guys who would turn that down. She is 100% to blame. Period.

 

I will admit that when I trigger and the rage hits me (which still happens from time-to-time) I imagine myself shoving a 9-inch fillet knife through their temple. I can clearly picture doing this and it calms me down. It is a release to have such a vivid image of murdering them. At these times I still feel pure contempt and disgust for my cheating wife, but I have no thoughts of violence toward her. Those fits of rage I get when something triggers my memory pass pretty quickly but are just as intense as ever. The only person in danger when the rage flashes is me.

 

The anger was almost overwhelming for me...I have said before that I am glad I was not in the vicinity of ow on dday or I may have ended up in jail...not because she was ow but because of the crazy vile way she talked to me on top of everything else...it was a very dark place...but from time to time I still have dreams of knocking the biatch out...i hate feeling like that and having such anger...i try to think of puppies instead.

 

I hate affairs.

[experiencethedevine]

Having an affair is certainly not an honourable act, no matter how much someone wants to have it seem to be the case.

 

It's really quite sad that so many , both bs and om/ow are willing to make excuses for the person they are with.

 

When one thinks about it, if a person is willing to do this, do they really love the person as much as they claim, or do they love an idealized, fantasy version of them that really doesn't exist anywhere but in their own mind?

 

A person who has made the choice to have an A ( and make no mistake, no matter how it happened, whether it was planned or it "just sort of happened...we certainly were not looking for this type of thing to happen" it is a choice) is fully responsible for that action. No amount of excuses or "reasons" will change that.

 

Until a ws ( and the bs or former om/ow, should the affair become a regular relationship) is willing to face that, and take full emotional responsibility for it, that part of them will still be there. Perhaps it will lay dormant for a long time, but add stress to the relationship, and old behavior patterns can come back into play.

 

BTW...I am always quite bemused when people use the excuse " we weren't looking for an affair, it just sort of happened", and then they go on to discuss how the marriage was bad. It's as if someone should extrapolate from that situation that the ws had no choice but to cheat if they were to find happiness.

 

So on the one hand, the person isn't looking for an affair, they may even be trying to avoid one but somehow they slide into one without realizing it, and on the other hand, their marriage is bad (usually 99% of the time it's said to be the fault of the bs) so they have no choice but to cheat if they want to be happy.

 

Maybe I am too dense to understand, but which is it? Seems to me that if the marriage was bad, then the person may have been a lot more open to an affair than they are willing to admit, and if they weren't very open to an affair then perhaps the marriage isn't as bad as they ( and the om/ow) would like to believe.

 

As far as I can see, the truh usually lies somewhere in the middle. Marriage is going along okay, maybe not great, but not terrible either. Soon to be ws meets someone, they feel an attraction, but rather than ignore it, they feed that attraction and it grows.

All of that is the result of a series of choices that the person made. The person was open to having an affair, as if they weren't they wouldn't have one. Simple as that.

 

Does this mean that the person will forever and always be that way? That depends. For some people who are not willing to take responsibility for their choices and try and blame others for them, it's a pretty fair guess that they will stay as they are. For others who are willing to do the work that it takes to figure out why they made the choices they did and learn from that (and that goes far Beyoncé simply saying all the right things) and is willing to guard against this type of behavior in the future, there is a good chance that they might never cheat again.

 

A bs, or the former ap (should the m end and the A become the new sole relationship) does a disservice to both themselves and their relationship partner if they accept the person placing the blame for the A on the bs. By being willing to accept excuses, they indicate that they are willing to accept poor behavior, and , from my way of thinking, they seem to be saying to the person that they expect nothing better from them.

 

 

 

 

Bravo Rumbleseat, this is most accurate and a jolly good post. Thankyou.