goodyblue Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Yes, and her mistakes were no bigger nor smaller than his. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
ladydesigner Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Yes, and her mistakes were no bigger nor smaller than his. goodyblue I am curious if the shoe were to ever find itself on your foot how you would react and where you think blame should be placed if your significant other cheated on you. Would you blame yourself? Link to post Share on other sites
goodyblue Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I believe that the failure of the marriage lies with the people in the marriage. I believe I played a part in the affair, which was wrong. I believe that sometimes, when there is an affair, the BS takes it and runs with it, using it to excuse all of their failings, and the failings in the marriage. While I believe an affair is not the way to go, I believe it is not a free pass for the BS, and I believe affairs, generally, happen for a reason and are not just because someone is bored. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
janedoe67 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 nagging is not abuse, whining is not abuse. Withholdong sex, though it is selfish and petty and wrong, is not abuse. Being in a bad mood is not abuse. gaining weight is not abuse. Cheating on your spouse and exposing them to possible health risks and everything else IS abuse....and betrayal. And participating in it with the cheater is just.....sad and pathetic and desperate. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
goodyblue Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Well, since you don't know what went on in the marriage of my guy you can't say whether he was abused or not. I'll say one thing, he never exposed her to any diseases. So there's that. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
ladydesigner Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I believe that the failure of the marriage lies with the people in the marriage. I believe I played a part in the affair, which was wrong. I believe that sometimes, when there is an affair, the BS takes it and runs with it, using it to excuse all of their failings, and the failings in the marriage. While I believe an affair is not the way to go, I believe it is not a free pass for the BS, and I believe affairs, generally, happen for a reason and are not just because someone is bored. Well yeah I understand all this, and I sort of did this too post Dday. The A exacerbated the problems within our M. In my M my WH has been the emotional inept one. It has been very difficult for me at times as well as his moodiness. It eventually led to my own emotional withdraw and then he embarked on his A's. On Dday the A just made me realize even more how disastrous our M was. I was hyperfocused on all the bad in our M before the A now post A. I don't know I guess everyone's sitch is different. I just don't believe most BS are to blame for the A. The WS is the one to blame for the A. They are the ones who did the deed. Another thing I would like to state is that a lot of BS's post Dday will automatically blame themselves for the A in a very unhealthy way and I don't think that is right. So when they are being blamed by an OW or their WS and taking it all inward is not healthy at all. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
goodyblue Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Well yeah I understand all this, and I sort of did this too post Dday. The A exacerbated the problems within our M. In my M my WH has been the emotional inept one. It has been very difficult for me at times as well as his moodiness. It eventually led to my own emotional withdraw and then he embarked on his A's. On Dday the A just made me realize even more how disastrous our M was. I was hyperfocused on all the bad in our M before the A now post A. I don't know I guess everyone's sitch is different. I just don't believe most BS are to blame for the A. The WS is the one to blame for the A. They are the ones who did the deed. Another thing I would like to state is that a lot of BS's post Dday will automatically blame themselves for the A in a very unhealthy way and I don't think that is right. So when they are being blamed by an OW or their WS and taking it all inward is not healthy at all. I agree the WS made the decision to have the affair. My guy and I have had to make peace with our part in things. It's not been easy, but we've survived it and it's made us both better people having to look at ourselves and see what we could have/should have done differently. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
ladydesigner Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I agree the WS made the decision to have the affair. My guy and I have had to make peace with our part in things. It's not been easy, but we've survived it and it's made us both better people having to look at ourselves and see what we could have/should have done differently. I think this is great! It sounds healthy! Link to post Share on other sites
goodyblue Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Yes, it's been good. But for his stbxw, it's not. She only sees the affair and not her failings in the marriage, which could help her to grow and be a happier person. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
ladydesigner Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Yes, it's been good. But for his stbxw, it's not. She only sees the affair and not her failings in the marriage, which could help her to grow and be a happier person. Hopefully she won't let the A color her outlook forever. Therapy has really helped me. I have confronted my issues in the M and as is my WH. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
goodyblue Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 How long has it been since he left her? More than a year, less than five. Link to post Share on other sites
Zenstudent Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 To be totally honest; I also had to change a lot after d-day and had to realize that I had failed in our marriage as well. I should have put a stop to her EPS many, many years ago. It may not have prevented her affair, but at least one of the doors would have been closed. Link to post Share on other sites
Author experiencethedevine Posted January 6, 2014 Author Share Posted January 6, 2014 I find it a little pathetic that you feel you are more intelligent, more knowledgeable than everyone else here. You're not. I've known many people like you through my profession. I'm not impressed. I don't recall making any such bold statements regarding superiority. Those are your indications, not mine, and I care not whether you are impressed frankly. I have every right to post freely, just as you do, so if you don't much care for my comments then don't respond to them. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
goodyblue Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I don't think it is about stopping the affair. Not your job. It is more about making the marriage a good place for the two people in the relationship. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
rumbleseat Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 A man or woman can stay with a person for years and be very unhappy. Who's fault is this? Theirs or their spouses? Everyone has the ability to make choices about their life, and if they choose to stay in an unhappy situation, then who is responsible for that? There are many women and men who are horribly abused. They are physically assaulted, they are isolated from family and friends, they are cut off from having any money of their own. They are made to feel worthless and their self esteem takes hit after hit. They can become mired in apathy and inertia, but the one thing that can get them out us seeing how this affects their child(ten). They would never stay "until the kids are old enough to leave home" and subject their children to years of witnessing abuse (or being abused themselves). In my work, I have met and interviewed victims of horrible verbal, physical, financial and emotional abuse. They have had to endure things I can't begin to imagine. If they ever felt like that had an opportunity to leave, they would have run, and they did so at the first opportunity. They didn't wait until they met another man (or woman, for some of them) they saw the toll the abuse was having on them and their children. They sucked up all their courage, got help and got away, sometimes with little more than the clothes on their backs. A person who stays under threat of physical harm stays because they feel they have no choice. Staying because you have some vanity about being "mr. Perfect" is not staying because you have no choice. Subjecting your children to a negative homelife because you are too cowardly to say enough is enough and leave is not staying because you have no choice. That is staying because you want to stay because you are getting something out of it. As has been stated before, a man who meets a woman, gets to know her, asks her to marry him, lives with her, gets her pregnant, has children with her, stays for years and years has made the choice to stay. There is something about his marriage that he likes enough to stick around for. Of course, he may be somewhat disordered in his personality so much that his ego about being "mr. Perfect" and "a nice guy" keeps him there, but again, such is his choice. If he is willing to put his own ego and self image before doing what is best for his kids, then that is on him. What his wife does is on her, but his choice to stay and put up with it and keep the dynamic going if he is desperately unhappy is one hundred percent on him. If , as the example given, a man is so terribly unhappy that he is planning to leave, yet he gives his wife the gift of two leather couches two weeks beforehand says a heck of a lot more about him and his issues than it does about her. It would also point to there being a Whole lot more going on that an third party will ever know, much as she may want to believe otherwise. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
rumbleseat Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Well, since you don't know what went on in the marriage of my guy you can't say whether he was abused or not. I'll say one thing, he never exposed her to any diseases. So there's that. Unless he never had extramarital sex, there is no way he could ever be 100% sure of that. Believing otherwise is a fool's errand. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
yellowmaverick Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Unless he never had extramarital sex, there is no way he could ever be 100% sure of that. Believing otherwise is a fool's errand. Agree. My STBXWH and his side piece said the same thing because the side piece was "not that kind of girl". I held my tongue when he had to seek medical treatment to get rid of a nasty STD only a month later. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Furious Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 (edited) It is common for the BS to place blame initially firmly at the door of the OW/M rather than where it needs to be, rightly at the feet of the MM/W. This tends to be the brain's safety circuit in action, saving the sanity of the one who has discovered the affair temporarily as shock sets in. Most BS after a period, can function more rationally and clearly and are able to see that the responsibility lies firmly with their errant husband or wife. Diversity is my question here. If this did indeed happen for you, how long did it take before your interpretation of the situation changed? Did you get 'stuck' in the blame cycle? What if anything, brought about your own epiphany? My epiphany was when I realized that in order to justify cheating a WS will employ blame-shifting as a ready excuse for their choice to cheat. An OW/OM who signs up for this, readily accepts that deceit is not something they are opposed to. A cheater cannot cheat unless someone volunteers to be an accessory to it. In my situation, I found both my husband's and the OW's actions equally reprehensible. I don't see it as parsing out blame but just calling it out for what it is. Two people, both capable of deception and entitlement. Edited January 7, 2014 by Furious 4 Link to post Share on other sites
ComingInHot Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 I want my blinders back on too!!! I TOTALLY MISS the days when I would talk irrationally and have it be perfectly "logical" in my little twisted up mind... Remember those times when no matter how the Truth was given, and I could STILL spin it to make me and any cohorts "innocent victims"... ...I sometimes miss those days of CIH Logic** What's this topic again?? 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Author experiencethedevine Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 (edited) It's way too early to expect any kind of introspection on her part. She spent 30 years of her life with him. It takes around 3-5 years for a BS to get over an A when the WS stays and reconciles. You can expect it to take even longer for her because of the huge self-esteem hit that comes with being left for someone else. The quicker the divorce goes, the better it will be for her. Out of sight, out of mind and all. However, it may not help if they still have to co-parent together because some of the kids are still minors. I agree. The demands on the woman who has been abandoned for another to immediately begin addressing her own issues and ego during such a tumultuous period are unrealistic. Edited January 7, 2014 by experiencethedevine 7 Link to post Share on other sites
cocorico Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Coco, this sounds Nuts so if you could clarify this for me: If the M is so dang bad, and MM is only staying because he is putting everyone ahead of himself...why play pretend with the wife? Why continue to tell crazy wife how much he loves her? Why continue to make love to this evil wife? Why buy the dreadful wife gifts? Why not just have an open marriage? He did not "play pretend" with her. He did not tell her he loved her. He certainly did not make love to her, and any "gifts" were things she bought for herself and paid for with joint (household) money. Link to post Share on other sites
cocorico Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 It's way too early to expect any kind of introspection on her part. She spent 30 years of her life with him. It takes around 3-5 years for a BS to get over an A when the WS stays and reconciles. You can expect it to take even longer for her because of the huge self-esteem hit that comes with being left for someone else. The quicker the divorce goes, the better it will be for her. Out of sight, out of mind and all. However, it may not help if they still have to co-parent together because some of the kids are still minors. This is consistent with my observations. My mother is still bitter 30 years after being left, far longer than the M lasted. My H's xW, at around a quarter of that after a longer M, no doubt still has decades to go. Link to post Share on other sites
Author experiencethedevine Posted January 15, 2014 Author Share Posted January 15, 2014 Some do indeed remain tortured by their discarded esteem, and some go on to recover from the damage to be more self assured. However, the scars of it remain as a reminder never to allow oneself to be the subject of such a traumatic experience in the future. Link to post Share on other sites
ComingInHot Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 Thinking again about the placing blame thing... I think maybe, in marriages, when things are "not good" , then during the marriage both parties can very likely share responsibility for things "not working". And if there is a divorce because of the things wrong between the spouses that were never addressed and or fixed, then in IC insight can be gained regarding why the M failed and the failings of each spouse. BUT then this would be a topic for Marriage separation and divorce. Being that infidelity is involved, placing blame would, to me, be in regards to the cheating parties who are or did cheat, participate in cheating and or support cheating while encouraging the breaking of the M vows that often lead to its destruction. I see, in this scenario, that the only blame to be placed is on cheaters and cheater participants. Ergo topic being in the infidelity section. That's the difference I see. A's distract from and change the blame placing and accepting from being between the spouses M'd to the responsibility of the ow/om and spouse. (Did I write this last part right?)* 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author experiencethedevine Posted January 19, 2014 Author Share Posted January 19, 2014 Thinking again about the placing blame thing... I think maybe, in marriages, when things are "not good" , then during the marriage both parties can very likely share responsibility for things "not working". And if there is a divorce because of the things wrong between the spouses that were never addressed and or fixed, then in IC insight can be gained regarding why the M failed and the failings of each spouse. BUT then this would be a topic for Marriage separation and divorce. Being that infidelity is involved, placing blame would, to me, be in regards to the cheating parties who are or did cheat, participate in cheating and or support cheating while encouraging the breaking of the M vows that often lead to its destruction. I see, in this scenario, that the only blame to be placed is on cheaters and cheater participants. Ergo topic being in the infidelity section. That's the difference I see. A's distract from and change the blame placing and accepting from being between the spouses M'd to the responsibility of the ow/om and spouse. (Did I write this last part right?)* Yes CIH, you did, and I am in full agreement. Marital issues, as has repeatedly been alluded to here, are no match for infidelity................................... Link to post Share on other sites
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