Betrayed spouses: Where do you draw the line between anger or abusive toward WS?

[burningashes]

I'm not sure if my title is phrased appropriately, bear with me here as I'm having a little difficulty articulating my question.

 

TL:DR and skip to question from the end of my post:

 

"Are BS allowed to push their WS around? Are they allowed to play mind games to see if there's more to the story, without actually perpetuating gaslighting their spouses? In no shape or form am I blaming my boyfriend of the time for what I did, I take responsibility for that and I never will do that again. I only want to know IF I've been abused or not, if that is normal for a betrayed spouse to do all kinds of things to their WS, including getting physical.

 

How much should a BS take? Do wayward spouses even have the right to say no, this is going overboard?"

 

A little background for those who want the long story so that my question is somewhat relevant.

 

I was in a relationship with a man for 8 years, but toward the end, he left me because I wasn't around. Working three jobs to pay for rent and being a student will kind of do that to you. Anyway he left me and after that, I stupidly spent the next three years trying to get him back, including sleeping with him.

 

I'm not proud of it, and will never ever do this again because it hurt so many people. I was trying to move on at the same time, so I was seeing other men and my ex. I was around 22 when this happened (I'm 30 now). During this, we were constantly hanging out together as if nothing changed, except he never told me he loved me. Fast forward to the end of the third year of relationships failing because I couldn't let my ex go (and vice versa), I met a man who I fell heads over heels with.

 

For the first time I finally could let my ex go, or so I thought. I was so dependent on him, when I look back on it, I was pathetic.

 

I told my boyfriend at the time that I was dealing with this, and he said he didn't want me to be friends with my ex. This was wrong of me to do this, but I believed that I could just be friends with the ex. I went behind my boyfriend's back and continued being friends with the ex, I wanted to believe I could manage that without cheating because it was the first time I was able to let him go. My past relationships kept failing because I was cheating on my boyfriends with my ex, and this was the first one I felt that I never wanted to cheat because I didn't want him back anymore. I dont' know if that makes any sense, but that was my thinking at the time.

 

Well, I was absolutely wrong on that, because I ended up sleeping with him a couple of months after I became exclusive with my boyfriend. When this happened, I told my ex we really could not be friends anymore, that I felt terrible. I did not want to continue this, and that I should have listened to my boyfriend not to be friends with him anymore. At this point, my ex told me he considered approaching my boyfriend to let him know what I had done, and that I was keeping our friendship in secret. Everything just went downhill from there, right then, I should have told my boyfriend everything but I didn't because I thought I could fix this. I never intended on sleeping with him again because I wanted out.

 

So we finally sat down and I told him most of the truth. I tried to leave out my past where I was continually cheating on my boyfriends because I wanted to be with my ex and couldn't let him go. This is the part where I was most ashamed of, and were absolutely truthful that I only slept with my ex once after I became exclusive with my boyfriend.

 

Naturally, he got very upset but he wanted to make it work out. I suppose it should be relevant that I include the fact he was a cop, and that probably played a factor in his treatment toward me after he found out.

 

So this brings my question into play. I never had any issue with him questioning what happened and asking me why I did this and so on because I wanted to fix this with him. I wanted to regain his trust, but the more he learned, the more he wanted to know about my past. So I finally told him this, and it gave him serious doubt whether I really only slept with him that one time and were JUST friends with him the entire duration of our relationship.

 

He did things like sitting me down and admitting that he also slept with another woman and that he was so sorry. Later, he told me it was fake to see how I reacted. He asked me to take a polygraph, and I agreed to that but later he said he was just doing that to see if I would confess. He was so convinced there was more to it when there really wasn't.

 

There were times where I'd snuggle with him and he'd suddenly tell me to get out because he was sick of me. He blamed me for not being able to get it up anymore, that he couldn't have sex with me anymore. He would throw things at me and shove me around. I felt so bad for everything that I thought I would tolerate everything because he was hurt and I wanted so badly to take it all away. The tension was so high that you could slice the air with a knife- at one point, he reached over his kitchen counter where his gun was lying on, I jumped because I was afraid for my life.

 

His questions were equally just as tough, he'd ask questions to see if I would trip over something. I always felt afraid to say that I didn't remember or answer his questions because I felt that I might get one wrong and go through D-Day again. I admitted I was wrong for trying to stay friends with my ex, and had cut not only my ex, but ALL of my mutual friends off for him. I gave him access to my emails and Facebook, everything. I told my family, and his family, apologizing to them both for my cheating because my boyfriend wanted everyone to know what I did.

 

I've learned my lessons but now I have some questions because I read things on the forum that makes me think about what happened.

 

Is there a line you draw between being angry and abusive toward your WS? How far can you go without being abusive? I realize that all BS are entitled to express their anger, but with my boyfriend at the time, I was seriously questioning whether his actions were abusive or not.

 

I feel that I was put through continuous interrogation and when I couldn't take it anymore, I remember that day so clearly- he was asking me to write down on a piece of paper how many times I really slept with my ex during our relationship. I was exhausted, and had nothing left to fight with him anymore that it was really only once. I loved him so much, but I was so tired of trying to make him believe me.. I wrote down that I slept with him a few times.

 

He never believed me that I really wanted to end the friendship with my ex and that I was trying to do that. I even went to court to get a no contact order because I wanted to show my ex that I was serious about cutting my ex out. Nothing I did helped. He told me to get out and that was the day our relationship ended for good. I gave up that day, and ended our relationship on, the irony of it all, a lie, that I slept with my ex more than one time when I was dating my boyfriend. I was so confused what was real and what wasn't when we broke up.

 

Are BS allowed to push their WS around? Are they allowed to play mind games to see if there's more to the story, without actually perpetuating gaslighting their spouses? In no shape or form am I blaming my boyfriend of the time for what I did, I take responsibility for that and I never will do that again. I only want to know IF I've been abused or not, if that is normal for a betrayed spouse to do all kinds of things to their WS, including getting physical.

 

How much should a BS take? Do wayward spouses even have the right to say no, this is going overboard?

 

Any insight would be wonderful because this has stayed with me for a long time. I feel guilty and bad for even bringing this up when this was my fault in the first place.

[PegNosePete]

"Allowed" and "right" are terms which only apply to legal cases. Physical and mental abuse are totally unacceptable in any circumstances and if you want to know legal definitions of these terms then you can consult the laws in your local jurisdiction.

 

But if that is not the case then what do "allowed" and "rights" mean? It only means what YOU find acceptable. If you find his behaviour unacceptable then you should not accept it. Just because you did wrong, that does not mean you have to accept whatever punishment he sees fit. If you don't like his terms and conditions for reconciliation then there is no obligation for you to accept them. You can walk out at any time you choose.

[FrankieFrank]

There were times where I'd snuggle with him and he'd suddenly tell me to get out because he was sick of me.

 

This is not abuse. This is him triggering. If you want to work it out, expect it to happen, possibly for much longer. Some BSs trigger for years to come.

 

He blamed me for not being able to get it up anymore, that he couldn't have sex with me anymore.

 

Ditto. Many BSs are disgusted with their partners to the point of refusing intimacy to happen.

 

I have a feeling you just wanted him to "get over it" like with a snap of fingers and carry on like your indiscretions never happened. You need to be made aware this is not how it's gonna pan out.

[burningashes]

I suppose it really comes down to me understanding whether I should have been tolerant of that or not. I mentioned all of that because it truly felt like he made a game out of it and I feel victimized because of it.

 

I didn't want to walk out because I wanted to do what I could to get his trust back. Anything I did would set him off, and it wasn't just the name calling, he got physical with me (ie throwing things at me and shoving me around).

 

Would I have deserved it if he hit me? It got to the point where he was throwing things at me and shoving me around.

 

Believe me, I really was not expecting him to get over it at that instant and knew it would take a long time. I was more than willing to do what he needed me to do and tried my hardest. I'm trying to sort through whether I really deserved that.

 

If I had not cheated, and that happened in a normal fight, I know people would immediately call him an abuser and tell me to leave the relationship. BUT because I cheated, I should accept what he does to me whenever he triggers?

 

I feel this sets a dangerous precedent for myself, because I don't know what's normal/acceptable in relationship conflicts, how the guy should be treating me when he's angry. He had a gun in the house, and he made sure I didn't forget that. He said things like "You're lucky because guys have shot women in the head over this before" to me. Should I have been fine with him saying that to me?

 

That's why I'm unsure whether any of this was reasonable, whether I was right to just let it all go because I was completely broken, worn down to no desire left to keep trying.

[fixing]

Hmmm, sounds like your ex was a major power trip probably due to the fact he is a cop.

All of that sounds like abuse for sure. And a very unhealthy relationship. You should have ended it yourself much sooner, as soon as he talked about Polygraphs.

But the catch 22 thing is that you brought this on yourself. You cheated on him and that triggered is controlling abusive behavior.

 

So in short, you should never be interrogated that strongly and persistently, but you also shouldnt cheat on your partner.

 

I hope you get over both of your exes, take time to work on yourself, and the next relationship, do it right and dont cheat!

 

Good luck

[ThatMan]

burningashes,

I'm very worried about you. Do you have any options to move out if you need to?

[sayyes19]

I'm not sure if my title is phrased appropriately, bear with me here as I'm having a little difficulty articulating my question.

 

TL:DR and skip to question from the end of my post:

 

"Are BS allowed to push their WS around? Are they allowed to play mind games to see if there's more to the story, without actually perpetuating gaslighting their spouses? In no shape or form am I blaming my boyfriend of the time for what I did, I take responsibility for that and I never will do that again. I only want to know IF I've been abused or not, if that is normal for a betrayed spouse to do all kinds of things to their WS, including getting physical.

 

How much should a BS take? Do wayward spouses even have the right to say no, this is going overboard?"

 

A little background for those who want the long story so that my question is somewhat relevant.

 

I was in a relationship with a man for 8 years, but toward the end, he left me because I wasn't around. Working three jobs to pay for rent and being a student will kind of do that to you. Anyway he left me and after that, I stupidly spent the next three years trying to get him back, including sleeping with him.

 

I'm not proud of it, and will never ever do this again because it hurt so many people. I was trying to move on at the same time, so I was seeing other men and my ex. I was around 22 when this happened (I'm 30 now). During this, we were constantly hanging out together as if nothing changed, except he never told me he loved me. Fast forward to the end of the third year of relationships failing because I couldn't let my ex go (and vice versa), I met a man who I fell heads over heels with.

 

For the first time I finally could let my ex go, or so I thought. I was so dependent on him, when I look back on it, I was pathetic.

 

I told my boyfriend at the time that I was dealing with this, and he said he didn't want me to be friends with my ex. This was wrong of me to do this, but I believed that I could just be friends with the ex. I went behind my boyfriend's back and continued being friends with the ex, I wanted to believe I could manage that without cheating because it was the first time I was able to let him go. My past relationships kept failing because I was cheating on my boyfriends with my ex, and this was the first one I felt that I never wanted to cheat because I didn't want him back anymore. I dont' know if that makes any sense, but that was my thinking at the time.

 

Well, I was absolutely wrong on that, because I ended up sleeping with him a couple of months after I became exclusive with my boyfriend. When this happened, I told my ex we really could not be friends anymore, that I felt terrible. I did not want to continue this, and that I should have listened to my boyfriend not to be friends with him anymore. At this point, my ex told me he considered approaching my boyfriend to let him know what I had done, and that I was keeping our friendship in secret. Everything just went downhill from there, right then, I should have told my boyfriend everything but I didn't because I thought I could fix this. I never intended on sleeping with him again because I wanted out.

 

So we finally sat down and I told him most of the truth. I tried to leave out my past where I was continually cheating on my boyfriends because I wanted to be with my ex and couldn't let him go. This is the part where I was most ashamed of, and were absolutely truthful that I only slept with my ex once after I became exclusive with my boyfriend.

 

Naturally, he got very upset but he wanted to make it work out. I suppose it should be relevant that I include the fact he was a cop, and that probably played a factor in his treatment toward me after he found out.

 

So this brings my question into play. I never had any issue with him questioning what happened and asking me why I did this and so on because I wanted to fix this with him. I wanted to regain his trust, but the more he learned, the more he wanted to know about my past. So I finally told him this, and it gave him serious doubt whether I really only slept with him that one time and were JUST friends with him the entire duration of our relationship.

 

He did things like sitting me down and admitting that he also slept with another woman and that he was so sorry. Later, he told me it was fake to see how I reacted. He asked me to take a polygraph, and I agreed to that but later he said he was just doing that to see if I would confess. He was so convinced there was more to it when there really wasn't.

 

There were times where I'd snuggle with him and he'd suddenly tell me to get out because he was sick of me. He blamed me for not being able to get it up anymore, that he couldn't have sex with me anymore. He would throw things at me and shove me around. I felt so bad for everything that I thought I would tolerate everything because he was hurt and I wanted so badly to take it all away. The tension was so high that you could slice the air with a knife- at one point, he reached over his kitchen counter where his gun was lying on, I jumped because I was afraid for my life.

 

His questions were equally just as tough, he'd ask questions to see if I would trip over something. I always felt afraid to say that I didn't remember or answer his questions because I felt that I might get one wrong and go through D-Day again. I admitted I was wrong for trying to stay friends with my ex, and had cut not only my ex, but ALL of my mutual friends off for him. I gave him access to my emails and Facebook, everything. I told my family, and his family, apologizing to them both for my cheating because my boyfriend wanted everyone to know what I did.

 

I've learned my lessons but now I have some questions because I read things on the forum that makes me think about what happened.

 

Is there a line you draw between being angry and abusive toward your WS? How far can you go without being abusive? I realize that all BS are entitled to express their anger, but with my boyfriend at the time, I was seriously questioning whether his actions were abusive or not.

 

I feel that I was put through continuous interrogation and when I couldn't take it anymore, I remember that day so clearly- he was asking me to write down on a piece of paper how many times I really slept with my ex during our relationship. I was exhausted, and had nothing left to fight with him anymore that it was really only once. I loved him so much, but I was so tired of trying to make him believe me.. I wrote down that I slept with him a few times.

 

He never believed me that I really wanted to end the friendship with my ex and that I was trying to do that. I even went to court to get a no contact order because I wanted to show my ex that I was serious about cutting my ex out. Nothing I did helped. He told me to get out and that was the day our relationship ended for good. I gave up that day, and ended our relationship on, the irony of it all, a lie, that I slept with my ex more than one time when I was dating my boyfriend. I was so confused what was real and what wasn't when we broke up.

 

Are BS allowed to push their WS around? Are they allowed to play mind games to see if there's more to the story, without actually perpetuating gaslighting their spouses? In no shape or form am I blaming my boyfriend of the time for what I did, I take responsibility for that and I never will do that again. I only want to know IF I've been abused or not, if that is normal for a betrayed spouse to do all kinds of things to their WS, including getting physical.

 

How much should a BS take? Do wayward spouses even have the right to say no, this is going overboard?

 

Any insight would be wonderful because this has stayed with me for a long time. I feel guilty and bad for even bringing this up when this was my fault in the first place.

 

I don't think any cheating is worth of physical abuse or emotional abuse (though this is a grey area). However your story is the stuff that novels and movies are made of. The guy getting involved but knowing that you are codependent on the cheating ex. Watch Casino for the cliche' I'm talking about. You can't change your past, but you can fix it. Please get yourself some help and in the same time don't take abuse from anyone.

[JustJoe]

Physical Assault is abuse, no question. Verbal assault can possibly be abuse , depending on circumstances. Public name-calling and berating , for example.

Private berating, disbelief, expressions of disgust are not abuse but expressions of the BS anger.

Regardless, you should probably leave this relationship because it is toxic, but you caused it , so you should be the one to leave. You should also seek counseling for your horrible boundary issues.

[burningashes]

Thanks for your responses.

 

I am safe. Thank you for your concerns, but this happened a long time ago. My relationship with the boyfriend in question ended about three years ago, and I have not spoken to either in a long time.

 

I was in therapy for a good two years after the break up because I was really messed up, but I never felt I ever got this question resolved. It wasn't anything like any fight I've ever had with a boyfriend. I was afraid to say no and just took everything in.

 

I agree it was for the best the relationship ended- we both couldn't stand it. Although, we tried to be friends a couple of times afterward, but the friendships didn't work out afterward because there were too many resentments on both sides.

 

I suspected that I was abused, and even tried to bring it up with him saying that maybe he went overboard. He said in no way he was, that he was angry and that if I loved him, I would have done anything for him. Well, I tried that but I just could not take the mental battering anymore- that was what broke me in the end. I truly believed he hated me when we broke up, and some things he said about me have stuck ever since.

 

He had me believing me I was a whore and that I was not worth anything. I wore the scarlet A whenever I went, and the relationships have failed since because of my deep shame, that I won't be worth anything to the next man because of my past.

 

I'm convinced I cheated because I was co-dependent on the ex, just as he was with me because we were together for so long. We both cheated on our partners with each other when we tried to move on. He is now married with two kids, and I have my single life now, so I think we're doing okay now. I have tried dating since, and have had zero inclination to cheat because my ex isn't in my life anymore. Even then, if he somehow found his way back into my life, I still wouldn't cheat on anyone with him because I've had my space to become my own person and have my boundaries now.

 

I used to bring up my past all the time in my new relationships because I was convinced I was just a serial cheater. But when I figured out that co-dependency was the problem and broke the cycle, I've not felt the need to bring it up. I dont' have a problem talking about it either if my boyfriend ever wanted to know, because it won't ever happen again. I regret more than anything hurting my boyfriend and would take it back if I could.

 

That's something I'll always feel bad about, that I hurt these people but I know I did everything I could to make it right again. That's the best I can do and move on. Thanks for your insights, I feel a ton better getting some kind of affirmation that my boyfriend (now ex) went over board with me.