Do abusers just never change?

[M30USA]

Has anyone actually heard of even one case where someone reconciled with an abuser where the abuser actually changed significantly? It seems what always happens is there is a short-lived honeymoon phase of reconciliation, then it all just returns to normal. I believe abusiveness is so ingrained in a person's behavior that it even borders on being an aspect of their personality. In other words, expecting them to change is basically the same as asking them to change the very core of who they are. Nobody wants to do this, nor is anybody capable of doing this. All they can do is mask their behaviors but the drive behind them will always be there. I believe some people are just BORN to be abusers and, not to sound negative, but there's nothing they can do about it. Their spouses must either accept it or walk away.

[pteromom]

Yeah, I have friends whose husbands have stopped being physically abusive. But it hasn't changed their core personality.

 

Abusers are typically "reality one" people. They view every interaction as a competition, with a winner and a loser. Their main goal in an argument/altercation is to come out the winner, and they will do whatever is necessary to win. Name-calling, demeaning, hurting, etc.

 

An abuser is unlikely to become a "reality two" person without extensive counseling. In "reality two", the goal in an argument is to resolve the issue. Together. It's about mutuality and respecting the other person's position. Negotiation. Compromise.

 

So sure, someone can stop hitting. Fear of jail time can stop that. But it isn't going to change the way they think.

[M30USA]

Abusers are typically "reality one" people. They view every interaction as a competition, with a winner and a loser.

 

That is so true. I wish I could engrave your words here in solid gold.

 

What a sad existence to think this way. I was just reminded that the only succesful approach to dealing with these people is complete disengagement. To engage these people means automatic failure and loss.

[regine_phalange]

If the person is narcissistic he is condemned for life.

Almost impossible for narcissists to admit something is wrong with them... They are very resistant to any form of counselling.

[alonefornow]

The *only time I've seen an abuser change is when they were far removed from the situation(s) they were abusive in. As all people with issues, I believe they can change, but whenever a victim of theirs is still in the picture it reinforces their behavior. Just like an addict they need to "hit bottom" and that can only come by losing everyone around them.

 

Many people think they can change an abuser, but the very act of trying is what keeps the abuser firing on all cylinders. Even if the abuser can change they can't with the victim still around since that toxic relationship has already been established.

 

*I've only seen it once.

[carhill]

IME, I've only seen demonstrated (widely known) abusers (mature adults) 'change' a few times, mainly as a result of a life-altering event which causes them to face mortality. That could be health-related or it could be consequences of their violence. As another poster suggested, they 'hit bottom', with death pretty much being the bottom, and saw another path to try.

 

For someone to change, they have to want to change and take steps to work a plan to change. It's no different with abuse.

 

Relevant to another comment about 'competition', it's no surprise that men are more likely to be abusers simply because they're bred and socialized to be competitive; to win. Weakness and failure are not acceptable. Given the right hard-wiring, generally unknown during the socialization phase, such 'nurture' can solidify the abusive personality. IMO, it's a combination of nature and nurture, since the brain is an electro-chemical factory and the specifics brain chemistry vary from person to person.

 

A more 'natural' example of evolution in one person is one seen when the 'hot head' of youth matures into a more mellow and measured older man. He may have been a bully in his youth but 'grows out of it' as his brain matures and hormone levels change and he interacts with other men who set a different example from resolving feelings with violence and abuse to teamwork and compromise. He also may have interactions with a ditch (that near death thing) or with law enforcement which he processes as negative and desires to 'change', and he does change. His combination of brain chemistry and response to life experience helps 'change' him.

 

I mentioned men more since men are obviously abusive more than women IME but the same general parameters apply to both genders. I saw that while caregiving. When a woman's brain goes sideways, she can become a formidable and abusive adversary. It's simply brain chemistry.

[M30USA]

The *only time I've seen an abuser change is when they were far removed from the situation(s) they were abusive in. As all people with issues, I believe they can change, but whenever a victim of theirs is still in the picture it reinforces their behavior. Just like an addict they need to "hit bottom" and that can only come by losing everyone around them.

 

Many people think they can change an abuser, but the very act of trying is what keeps the abuser firing on all cylinders. Even if the abuser can change they can't with the victim still around since that toxic relationship has already been established.

 

*I've only seen it once.

 

Very, very true!

[M30USA]

IME, I've only seen demonstrated (widely known) abusers (mature adults) 'change' a few times, mainly as a result of a life-altering event which causes them to face mortality. That could be health-related or it could be consequences of their violence. As another poster suggested, they 'hit bottom', with death pretty much being the bottom, and saw another path to try.

 

For someone to change, they have to want to change and take steps to work a plan to change. It's no different with abuse.

 

Relevant to another comment about 'competition', it's no surprise that men are more likely to be abusers simply because they're bred and socialized to be competitive; to win. Weakness and failure are not acceptable. Given the right hard-wiring, generally unknown during the socialization phase, such 'nurture' can solidify the abusive personality. IMO, it's a combination of nature and nurture, since the brain is an electro-chemical factory and the specifics brain chemistry vary from person to person.

 

A more 'natural' example of evolution in one person is one seen when the 'hot head' of youth matures into a more mellow and measured older man. He may have been a bully in his youth but 'grows out of it' as his brain matures and hormone levels change and he interacts with other men who set a different example from resolving feelings with violence and abuse to teamwork and compromise. He also may have interactions with a ditch (that near death thing) or with law enforcement which he processes as negative and desires to 'change', and he does change. His combination of brain chemistry and response to life experience helps 'change' him.

 

I mentioned men more since men are obviously abusive more than women IME but the same general parameters apply to both genders. I saw that while caregiving. When a woman's brain goes sideways, she can become a formidable and abusive adversary. It's simply brain chemistry.

 

This might also explain why many women are attracted to abusers. The trait of competitiveness and/or manipulativeness, which often results in business and financial success, is the same trait which predisposes one to be abusive. Unfortunately, these things are opposite sides of the same coin.

[John316C]

people are born with physical and behaviour traits. our experiences then shape how we express the qualities.

 

people are not born abusive, they may be born aggressive or passive.

 

if people are not taught how to control these traits, they run wild.

 

a Leader - an alpha Man is not born.. least i dont think so, he needs to be taught to control himself.

 

boys are emotionally imature.

 

people may have a temporary higher understanding enough to change them, but they will eventually revert. habits are hard to change and take lots of dedicated time.

 

people become only better versions of themselves (who they already are)

 

 

people dont change unless the change is compatible with their nature - the way they already think or want to think.

 

better to change yourself and not rely on people.

[M30USA]

boys are emotionally immature.

 

Wow, talk about sexism. But I guess since its agsinst boys/men, it's okay.

 

FYI, I have heard some women actually say that men are more capable of true compassion, that women's love is generally self-centered (towards merely their children and themselves), and that women's sense of unbiased justice is very limited.

 

You say boys are emotionally immature? Well, I guess great genius matures late. Complex systems always develop slower initially but then exceed the rest at the end.

Edited December 13, 2013 by M30USA

[pureinheart]

Has anyone actually heard of even one case where someone reconciled with an abuser where the abuser actually changed significantly? It seems what always happens is there is a short-lived honeymoon phase of reconciliation, then it all just returns to normal. I believe abusiveness is so ingrained in a person's behavior that it even borders on being an aspect of their personality. In other words, expecting them to change is basically the same as asking them to change the very core of who they are. Nobody wants to do this, nor is anybody capable of doing this. All they can do is mask their behaviors but the drive behind them will always be there. I believe some people are just BORN to be abusers and, not to sound negative, but there's nothing they can do about it. Their spouses must either accept it or walk away.

 

This is a difficult question M30 as I think all have the ability to abuse, no matter the situation.

 

I have heard accounts of those who were really bad- like Jeff Fenholt for instance. He was the lead singer of a rock group called Black Sabbath. He was a pill to say the least and quite abusive. It's been a long time and forgot the details, although I know he was VERY abusive to his wife in most ways.

 

There are many more like him most likely.

 

Now personal experience- thus far not one has changed

[sad_bubble]

i was in an abusive relationship. personally i don't like swearing, but the person did. and so it started.

 

from little things, say you are late, and your ex partner says "Do you have Msc? Do you know maths to figure out the time?" to "F**k you" then to "no worries. your dead body will be found in pee by firefighters" and this hurts like hell until now.

 

we used to break after such words, then we were on again, with the idea that this will no longer happen. and it happened again and again.. until it reached physical abuse.

 

I feel demolished. exhausted of all the attemps to trust him, to do anything he says just not to hear these words and feel these actions/punishments. they never stopped.

 

what's next? I broke up with him. It's the third month I still feel exhausted and frequently low. as for him. he is happy again. moved on with his life. says that all was my fault and sweared regarding any good memory we ever had together.

 

at the end of the day I was the one with a bleeding heart. naive belief that you can help and change the person. no, believe me, if you will stay to help your partner, they may use you in order to spill all the anger and demolish you until the last bits. It is very difficult to change a mature person. I will not try this again in the future.

[imtooconfused]

My rule of thumb is that abusers will change, for the worse. What you think is bad now, will only get worse over time. And like the proverbial frog in hot water, the abused doesn't quite grasp how bad it's getting because it escalates so casually they don't realize the extent of the abuse until it's too late.

 

EDIT: And to your point M30USA, any reconciliation is typically just another mechanism of further manipulation, preying on the abused's hope.

Edited December 28, 2013 by imtooconfused

[M30USA]

My rule of thumb is that abusers will change, for the worse. What you think is bad now, will only get worse over time. And like the proverbial frog in hot water, the abused doesn't quite grasp how bad it's getting because it escalates so casually they don't realize the extent of the abuse until it's too late.

 

EDIT: And to your point M30USA, any reconciliation is typically just another mechanism of further manipulation, preying on the abused's hope.

 

For some reason your post made me think of this verse:

 

"Let the one who does wrong continue to do wrong; let the vile person continue to be vile; let the one who does right continue to do right; and let the holy person continue to be holy.” (Revelation 22:11 NIV)

 

Obviously God wants everyone to repent. So this verse isn't ordering people to remain in their sin. But it's just admitting the fact that people are always gonna do what they do. Hataz always gonna hate.

Edited December 28, 2013 by M30USA