nittygritty Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 So then your belief is that you can just blow off the bible and make up your own definition? Of course, that's what the bible does as well. No, that is not my belief. I believe that the bible was written in a primitive time and the people that God inspired to write it gave their best interpretation of the inspiration. Particularly of future events to come. Also, the different times it has been translated throughout history are a factor in the clarity of what different things may mean. I think some of it has a literal meaning and some of it could be abstract. I know what I believe but admit I don't know or understand everything about it or what was meant by certain verses and that is what I look forward to finding out in heaven. Link to post Share on other sites
Robert Z Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Whichever "side" you are on there can be no denying that rationality and "God" are anathema to one another, which is exactly the problem of debating faith. You cannot explain the supernatural in nature - it does not exist. There is plenty of denying that rationality and "God" are anathema to each other. You are confusing God with faith and religion. And you are also confusing your own form of faith, with facts. Link to post Share on other sites
jimloveslips Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 There is plenty of denying that rationality and "God" are anathema to each other. You are confusing God with faith and religion. And you are also confusing your own form of faith, with facts. You provide no evidence, but… No doubt you mean that anyone can say, hey god and rationality are the same thing - well that's as "true" as people saying the earth is flat… Confusing God with faith and religion? The collocation here is self-evident given the forum, subject and debate, but if we are playing the semantics card again let me be more precise: My "position," born of scientific evidence and research, is that god and faith does indeed exist in the mind of the individual, it's in our DNA, it's a side effect of expanded intellectual reasoning and our inate capacity for the search for understanding of nature (and by nature I mean everything in the entire universe - natural phenomenon) - basically, when we came across something unfathomable we made up stories to rationalize it. Science and rationality have given us reason to repeatedly reject those stories, and replace it with fact (or indeed a scientific "interpretation" that has yet to be proven wrong i.e evolution by natural selection). So yes, in this post, in this debate, on this forum, I equate god, faith and religion as the same common point of discussion. "own form of faith" Do I "choose" to "accept" science as a guide to life - yes. I don't see it as "faith" I see it as logic - for instance, if you can prove to me god exists in a scientific method I will accept those facts! [but isn't the "accepted truth" by both the scientific community and the religious (a rare point of confluence) that god is beyond nature, so therefore magically (and conveniently) beyond rational explanation?] Again, I don't see semantics as a valid point of argument. No doubt my spelling, grammar and intellect can be critiqued till the cows come home, but I don't see how being so clever doing it advances the debate one iota. Link to post Share on other sites
happydate Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 (edited) Only critical thinking people will not accept the doctrine of eternal punishment in hell. I think the doctrine is the most ridiculous idea out there ever invented. I know the secret to why it was invented. To control the masses with fear. A bunch of self righteous religious powers that be thought it was their job to control the behavior of people by inventing this silly doctrine. It's a scare tactic and nothing more. They think they can hide behind God and scare people but critical thinking people don't fall for this kind of garbage. I don't have any respect for a God who doesn't save everybody. I think it is spiritual abuse to teach that anyone is going to hell. Luke 3:6 stated that "All flesh shall see the Salvation of God". Jesus Christ had said that my father house has "MANY" mansions that house spirits in their various stages of development. This is the same in a school system. We have a University, High School and Kindergarten. One might say that Kindergarten was more heaven (more play) than studying in the University where there's MORE pressure, MORE stress and MORE social bullying. It's no wonder that Children of the Lord shall enter the heavenly kingdom. What he meant is the inner consciousness of the children. Young children are more playful, joyful and happy and innocent; whereas adults are more baggage filled with fear, remorse, sadness, depression etc... How can these adults enter the kingdom of God that is filled on with joy, happiness and gratitude? They are incompatible emotions compared to a lot of what you guys and gals have inside of you. Hell can be seen today in the physical world, but they are only truly a manifestation of the inner hell within human beings that created these suffering, killing and destruction. God did not do this. We only did this to our selves. So when our body dies and return to the spirit world, our inner hell then projects the same illusions that some of us do in this physical world. If you are comfortable in hating certain people, thinking they are unjust to you, and you lack complete forgiveness and complete gratitude for your life on this earth, then in the spiritual realm you will project this realm with what you are the most comfortable with. This is in accordance to God's most important law; the law of free will. GOD CAN NOT FORCE you to enter hell. You need to choose to enter hell, but if you are in a living hell today then it's a naturally transition to the hellish realm. But this hellish realm is NOT permanent. All NDEs who had went to the many hellish realms came back to live and tell about it. When you die, you are presented with 2 choices. You go to the light or you stay as a discarnate soul or joint Satan. In any instances in the dark realms, you can choose to invoke the light and ask the angels and God to save you! This is told in the parables of Universal Salvation as well as in the Penitent and Impenitent thief. When you choose the light eventhough you committed a multitude of sins, you will judge later by a number of higher realm beings. Most of the stories and accounts in the bible and from NDEs involve "FIRST DEATH" stage. Meaning, when you leave the dead body, your spirit will choose based on your own free will if you want to go to the light. Let's say you chose the light (heaven). Then you will go through a spirit hospital when you will be cleansed of ALL human baggages. Then when you exist this hospital, you will then be led into the "HALL OF MIRRORS" where you will then be judged by higher realm beings including Jesus Christ and the whole. You will then see your sins being replayed and you will be asked to experience this feeling. You can say it will be a hellish experience because you are experiencing in the view of your victims! That's right. If in life, you treat all women like cum buckets, then you will re-live every single moment of you being the women and then seeing yourself exacting the crimes of sin including the pain, dramas, emotional turmoil etc.. If you are a man of logic, women's emotional pain will become unbearing on YOU! Basically the experience is not really suffering, but for you to purify your impure thoughts of certain anti-God actions. If you accept forgiveness and accept internal gratitude, then you will not face "SECOND DEATH" which is described in the Book Of Revelation as the Lake of Fire. However, certain individuals that Jesus Christ made mention during the last supper where these people WILL NOT join him on the second cup of wine on the other side will most likely face the "Second Death". Basically your soul will be incinerated by the lake of fire. Your existent will be deleted in the Universal consciousness. Obviously no NDEs (Near Death Experience) had to face the lake of fire, because otherwise they won't come back to tell the tale right? When you are still in embodiment, you will not be judged by your sins YET despite what some people here may have suggested. As long as you are living and breathing, you will not be judged because you will always have a chance to repentent and to ask for forgiveness and accept eternal gratitude. So hell is not permanent, but is real because we humans project them in this world as well as in the spiritual world. Blessings. Edited December 18, 2013 by happydate Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 (Nevermind.) Link to post Share on other sites
jimloveslips Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 (Nevermind.) Whatever... Link to post Share on other sites
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