Almost 7 Years of Marriage in Turmoil After Wife's Affair

[Clay]

I think its not that they wont change its that they only change when it is something they want to do. Not being forced to do it because your husband is going to leave you. Its because they want to be a better person. You can really see signs of this in the person long before it gets to the point he is going through.

 

I think the part of this I find so hard to believe that she will change for the better is that she continued it after each time he called her on it. She lied and hid it over and over and played it off like he was an idiot. Now her sending letters in one day is suppose to just erase all the heartache he has suffered.

 

Its really going to be up to him in what he does. I think its likely he will just stay with her. People that have reached a breaking point are very clear in there path. I don't think he is at that point yet.

 

 

Clay

[tiredofitall2]

I understand, I just am a believer in the fog and the effects of it on the brain. People will behave strangely and out of character for a while. Some people are just cheaters as they could care less for their partners, whoever their partner is. I guess it is Joe at this point that needs to determine what is his W about. Is she a person that lost her way and made a bunch of stupid mistakes due to her crush on this OM.

 

If she's a serial cheater and has a real problem with being faithful to any man then it is definitely not worth pursuing.

 

Yes, cheaters never change, but not everyone that cheats is a cheater. I think people make mistakes and sometimes never make the same mistake again. Just like someone that drinks is not an alcoholic. They might have gotten really drunk one day and done something stupid. But it could have been a one time deal.

[drifter777]

jm2013: I think the suggestion for you to separate from your wife for a while is a great idea. It will give you time to think without her constantly trying to manipulate you with sex. Be alone for a while and try to decide how you want to live the rest of your life. Keep being a great dad for your little girl and prove to yourself that you don't have to live with her mother to be a good father. Find a counselor and start working on yourself. You need to keep your head clear and take the time to make the decision that's best for you.

 

And never, ever read anything written by Dr. Harley.

[tiredofitall2]

 

And never, ever read anything written by Dr. Harley.

 

Why? There are many people that like his stuff.

[Iguanna]

I too believe that you will get her back and I'm too sad to say this but this woman knows your buttons very well. I know such a woman. She believes she can have anything she wants from everyone, she is sure that the world owes her. She is involved with an emotionally unavailable man for many years, he has made clear that he doesn't want to be in a serious relationship and what she said about him was "I'm gonna marry this man but he just doesn't know it yet". These women are witches. They have such a strong belief that they can do everything so at the end they convince others about this as well. They weaken others with their sweet behavior which are only driven from what they want. Sad thing is people fall for these women cause they seem so good and sweet from the outside. They can rob you and smile, they can kill you and you saying thank you. This is the kind of woman your wife is. She is not aware about what she did wrong, she was just trying to take what she wanted. She doesn't know why you are mad but she will promise you everything in order to make you "un-mad".

 

I'm only gonna tell you one thing and put it in your mind. You are lucky that you saw this woman's craziness kinda early. RUN. Run and save your daughter as well.

[tiredofitall2]

As much as I liked your other post (and found it balanced and helpful) I couldn't disagree with this post more if I tried (especially the bolded part which is just pure nonsense). There is an old saying tiredofitall. If it looks like a duck, waddles like a duck and quacks like a duck then it's usually a duck. This is not a good woman to be in a relationship with. She is all over the place and if you can't see that from JM's posts I think you have missed the main points here.

 

You are judging this woman as if she is a 'normal' emotionally healthy person when ALL the evidence presented thus far points to something entirely different. You seem to just be doing what the OP is doing right right now. Looking for the good but ignoring the very obvious red flags. If you do this in your own life you will end up making more mistakes then you should.

 

JM's own gut isntincts are that this woman is a little crazy. He needs to listen to this instinct. The problem I know have (with tiredofitall) is that if he listens to your advice he is going down the wrong path. It is that clear cut. It is that black and white...He is heading towards a trainwreck and I hate to be harsh but your last post above is not helping. Believe me...(hence my change of tone in this post)

 

It is his decision and I know that but I have an incredible knack for these things. If he goes back I am certain it will be the biggest mistake of his life.

 

Perhaps I did miss something. But I still recommend a separation for her to prove herself or to finally D. Maybe the separations gives him the strength to move on eventually.

 

The thing with the fog is that people will do, say and act in ways that are completely out of character and when they wake up they realize all the wrongs.

 

I'm sure we all have seen it. As some of the former WS here.

 

Actually a good thread to start.

[Zenstudent]

Originally Posted by drifter777

And never, ever read anything written by Dr. Harley.

 

Why? There are many people that like his stuff.

 

That's true and it's a matter of opinion and taste of course. Personally; I don't like his books either. The overall message, the way I read it, is that cheating is a shared responsibility and wouldn't have occurred if only the BS had met all his spouse's emotional needs. So in order to move on, the WS must break off the affair and apologize - then the rest is up to the BS, learn to satisfy all the needs of their CS, so that they don't have to cheat again. Simplified translation of course.

 

First of all; I don't believe that anybody can fullfill all emotional needs of their spouse at any time.

 

Second; I'm not all convinced that all the emotional needs are really "needs" - some of them could just as well be seen as "wants".

 

Third; would it be possible to have some of those needs/wants satisfied in alternative ways that won't hurt your marriage or spouse?

 

Just too much focus on the shortcomings on the BS-side, to my taste, that is.

[tiredofitall2]

That's true and it's a matter of opinion and taste of course. Personally; I don't like his books either. The overall message, the way I read it, is that cheating is a shared responsibility and wouldn't have occurred if only the BS had met all his spouse's emotional needs. So in order to move on, the WS must break off the affair and apologize - then the rest is up to the BS, learn to satisfy all the needs of their CS, so that they don't have to cheat again. Simplified translation of course.

 

First of all; I don't believe that anybody can fullfill all emotional needs of their spouse at any time.

 

Second; I'm not all convinced that all the emotional needs are really "needs" - some of them could just as well be seen as "wants".

 

Third; would it be possible to have some of those needs/wants satisfied in alternative ways that won't hurt your marriage or spouse?

 

Just too much focus on the shortcomings on the BS-side, to my taste, that is.

 

I agree with that as well, I do like the EN's though, but pre affair. I think if one is conscious of the spouse's EN's there are better chances fr a successful marriage. cheating is a different thing in that I believe that no one causes anyone to make the poor decision to do it. So I agree. The BS is not responsible for the WS to cheat, but many times deficiencies in the marriage lead to it. Not always though.

[turnera]

And never, ever read anything written by Dr. Harley.

Bullsnot. His Needs Her Needs is the most important book couples need to read. His forum, of course, sucks b*lls. But that book is essential.

[turnera]

jm, what does every BS get told her, over and over and over, ad nauseum?

 

ACTIONS, NOT WORDS.

 

It's REALLY easy to write out all that flowery, you're a he-man crap she's slathering on you. In fact, she could be paying someone to write it FOR her.

 

The ONLY thing that matters now is HOW SHE CHANGES.

 

I often tell BSs to demand that the "F"WS live apart for a year, going to weekly therapy, having NO interactions with any other opposite sex person outside work, and doing EVERY SINGLE thing you ask of them (within reason) without hesitation. Why? To PROVE to you that they really DID learn, ARE sincere, DO only want you.

 

If they are incapable of doing this, for only ONE year, they are just blowing smoke up your a$$ and you're better off without them.

[tiredofitall2]

jm, what does every BS get told her, over and over and over, ad nauseum?

 

ACTIONS, NOT WORDS.

 

It's REALLY easy to write out all that flowery, you're a he-man crap she's slathering on you. In fact, she could be paying someone to write it FOR her.

 

The ONLY thing that matters now is HOW SHE CHANGES.

 

I often tell BSs to demand that the "F"WS live apart for a year, going to weekly therapy, having NO interactions with any other opposite sex person outside work, and doing EVERY SINGLE thing you ask of them (within reason) without hesitation. Why? To PROVE to you that they really DID learn, ARE sincere, DO only want you.

 

If they are incapable of doing this, for only ONE year, they are just blowing smoke up your a$$ and you're better off without them.

 

Perfect, I think that is what JM should do. Get a VAR in the car and do whatever it takes to make sure she is adhering to your demands of transparency. You work on you and be the best father possible. At the end of that year you might find that she is the woman you fell in love with or you were fooled and you married a stranger.

[jm2013]

Thanks for the tips everybody. I don't have the energy to play PI. With that being said, I've got an appointment with my attorney for next Monday. I probably won't say anything until after Christmas. I want my daughter to think everything is ok on this day and not get upset. Out of curiosity I checked out her personal email to see if she had changed her password from what she gave me before and it has been changed to something else. I'd be willing to bet they're at least communicating via email. There are definitely more secrets if she's hiding that email. I don't think she wants me in there cause she wouldn't know when I'd be in there and would be unsure if covering her tracks would be effective. Since she has to delete the sent/received each time and empty the trash.

[jm2013]

Oh and I think you guys are right about the no contact. That's a really valid point. I'd be willing to bet if I did have no contact for that long she'd think I was cheating or something and first re-open her excessive relationship with her parents who'd then make sure she got hooked up with the OM. I can see that picture perfectly. And like I had said before, there were some red flags in the past with her and her family I simply just ignored for some reason.

 

Call me stupid or whatever, I just decided to ignore them. I'd even raise the issues with her in the past and each time just finds a way to avoid them all together. A good instance was years ago when my son was born she took it extremely hard. She'd always ask me if I wanted my son's mother and say I wanted to be with her and my wife would tell me how horrible she looked and asked why I wanted to be with her. It was weird looking back in retrospect but our good times outweighed those weird and bad times so I didn't really act on it. I just decided to be passive about those little issues that in the end turned out to be much bigger ones.

 

One other weird instance years back when we were going through a little bit of a bump in our road that kind of weirded me out in a way was a surprise she told me she had for me. Mind you we were at a friend's house hanging out with him and his girlfriend. She had gotten all excited about this "surprise" like it was something cool a girlfriend might get her boyfriend randomly like sports tickets or something. So I kept asking her in excitement what this surprise was then she just says "I am going to see a counselor". My face must have looked like stone when she said that. I looked around the table at our friends and they had the same look I did lol. We kind of just looked at each other and by their facial expressions we all thought it was a very strange thing to go about it that way. For some reason that specific day kind of stuck with me.

[Clay]

Thanks for the tips everybody. I don't have the energy to play PI. With that being said, I've got an appointment with my attorney for next Monday. I probably won't say anything until after Christmas. I want my daughter to think everything is ok on this day and not get upset. Out of curiosity I checked out her personal email to see if she had changed her password from what she gave me before and it has been changed to something else. I'd be willing to bet they're at least communicating via email. There are definitely more secrets if she's hiding that email. I don't think she wants me in there cause she wouldn't know when I'd be in there and would be unsure if covering her tracks would be effective. Since she has to delete the sent/received each time and empty the trash.

 

There is a lot of real truth in what you are saying. Not just having someone cheat on you changes you but having to spy on them constantly is such a degrading thing to have to do with someone that says they love you and only you.

 

I would wait until after Christmas. My kids hate Christmas just because of what happened with me and there mother then the very next year there grandfather on her side died days before Christmas as well. It cemented these things in there heads.

 

Clay

[jm2013]

Yeah she is a fruitloop, battier then a 1000 bats in a cave. I am betting the mother of your son is a little loopy too? You sensing a trend? That is for later down the line. Now you have to deal with the now.

 

Your thought process is all wrong jm. While apart you should be focusing on 1) can I ever trust her again 2) can I make my marriage work short and long term (if so how?) 3) what is best for my kids? 4) How do I avoid meeting similar mistakes with another woman if I leave my marriage. etc etc etc

 

Instead you are concerned that her parents are going to force this woman back to the OM. If you were emotionally healthy (and u have no idea what I am referring to) you would be praying that is exactly what happens. Set your ego aside for a second. What's happening here is far more then ego.

 

You have already stated you wished you didn't ignore the warning signs but here you are still doing it!!God I want to shake you hard so you finally see sense! She changes her email password despite promising you the earth the moon and the stars. J*** H C^^*() can you not see the difference between words and actions at this stage!?

 

AAArrrgggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. You will get no more sympathy/advice from me cause you are just as messed up as she is. Just in different ways. That's the part u don't get..

 

You serve this nutjob with papers on new years day then wow to better yourself as a person. To understand what emotional maturity is and take your journey towards that. Anything else is just another mistake/failure..

 

I don't really know the mother of my son well at all. I was being young, dumb and stupid at the time she got pregnant. We briefly dated I broke up with her and she came knocking at my door telling me she was pregnant and keeping the kid. This event was pretty awkward for me through the years considering I didn't really get a "bonding" time with my son. Hopefully I can take these present years and turn them into something that will help him with the support he needs for his future from both parents.

 

And you're right, I've got my own issues that I'll deal with. I'll focus on myself, my kids and become more self aware and not let the mistakes from my past haunt my future. It's good to hear straightforward words that you've provided to me. I lost my father at a young age and my counselor suggested because of that and mixing in an unstable mom my brother and I both had to pull out of thin air what we thought was normal. She said because of this I lacked assertiveness. Maybe she's right. While I can be assertive in business I may lack in relationships. I know that's extremely weird. I'll just go on and try to work on my issues. Thanks.

[jm2013]

Hey Loveshack, I wanted to thank all of you for the words both good and bad I've received over the months since I've found out my wife cheated on me. I've been kinda laying low trying to enjoy life as much as I can. I moved out of the house again and moved forward with my lawyer. I paid the half he needed to get the ball rolling. I'm hoping we can settle with a dissolution to make both of our lives easier.

 

Things have been getting kind of awkward lately with my STBXW. She'll let me facetime with my daughter to say goodnight then try and talk to me. I've noticed she put up a whole bunch of pictures of us through the house. I find this rather comical. And as most of you are aware I guess we're going together to Vegas. She has booked the same plane I'm on trying to travel with me and has even gone out of her way to contact my business friends for some reason or another.

 

Not sure if she's looking to bang one of them or what (and really I don't care). I think things will be ok. I feel like I look at her differently now. There's really nothing I want to do with her sexually or in marriage anymore. I just want to move on. The other side of this tunnel looks a lot better, that is for sure. I've had some freedoms I've missed for years and it is a weird good feeling if that makes sense.

 

I told her we've got a few hours on the plane to discuss what we need to discuss to get this settles. The lawyer said it will take like 60-80 days to push through the divorce once we come to terms on our stuff. She won't even give me a tv lol. I told her I'd come to the house and just take one. We've got 3 big screens and I've got a right to one of them. Starting to get annoying. And my PI days are over. I've come to terms with I do not care anymore. She could be bringing the OM over to the house and he could be raling her in our bed. I don't care. Keep you all updated.

[turnera]

Great update.

 

But, rather than 'taking' one of the TVs, PLEASE just go over there with a camera and take a picture of every single thing of value in the house. Print out the pictures and give them all to your lawyer. Tell him what you want of them, and he will work out for you to get the stuff you want.

[experiencethedevine]

She does not need a chat app to chat. Cheaters often use the chat feature of other apps, such as "Word With Friends", to communicate with their affair partners, because this text history is not tracked by the phone carrier. From a cheaters perspective, the beauty of it is that they can be glued to their phone supposedly innocently playing a game, when in fact they are secretly texting like mad to their lovers.

 

She does not think that you are stupid. She lies to you, because according to cheaters logic, unless she admits to lying to you, you cannot hold her accountable for her actions. Never mind that she knows that you know that she is lying. Never mind what common sense and logic tells you. According to cheaters logic you must beleive their every ridiculous lie unless you have irrefutable proof to the contrary. For some reason no matter how much they have been proven that they cannot be trusted, they have the expectation they are to be the sole decider of truth.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is so profound it made me gasp.

 

 

Very, very discerning Try.......................................

[Clay]

I think you kind of are experiencing what I experienced at the end of my marriage. I was deeply inlove with my xW until she started cheating on me. By the time she did it the last time I just felt hate and pain. I came to the point I really did not care who she was with. I am glad you are moving on and getting yourself in a better place.

 

The further you distance yourself from her mentally the healthier you will get.

 

Good for you to give yourself a better life.

Clay

[tiredofitall2]

I just hope that if your wife has truly seen her mistakes and has repented for her wrongdoings she finds a decent man. Someone you an trust around your daughter.

 

That should be your greatest concern right now. All else is temporary and passes.

 

Good luck!

[jm2013]

Thanks guys. I am not sure if she's remorseful out of love or money. Who knows. All I know is I've my plans and goals that I'll keep and just move forward. I am not going to sit here for years wondering if she's banging him or developing another EA that will lead to a PA in the future cause of one bad argument. It will be hard to push forward and marry again but there's got to be more women in this world who have more emotional strength and self respect to open their legs for another person within their marriage and continually lie. No thanks, moving on . I've gotten a lot of help from this forum that's for sure as well as some good friends and family. They kinda got burnt out on me initially but I know I can come back here for advice anytime.

[drifter777]

I'm glad to see you are living out the strength of your convictions - congrats!

 

As far as chopping up things in the divorce, it's often best to just give in on things that become really contentious. The longer it takes the more money it will cost you. It also stretches out the whole ordeal for you when what you want it to move forward with your new life. Just my opinion - take it for what it's worth.

[harrybrown]

Get a plane ticket for a girlfriend and have her go on the plane with you. Have her sit next to you, rather than your WW.

[Lokahi117]

Harry brown I love your thinking sometimes

[turnera]

Get a plane ticket for a girlfriend and have her go on the plane with you. Have her sit next to you, rather than your WW.

 

This! Do this!