Dealing With a Selfish Spouse

[oldshirt]

Is she this dismissive of your wants and needs in other areas of your life and relationship or just this one request???

 

If she has a history of flagrantly dismissing your reasonable and respectful wishes I would see this as a major red flag and would have serious second thoughts to bringing another child into this environment.

[Ninjainpajamas]

cat5 as the man, you're always going to be assumed that you are doing or thinking something that is someway wrong and violating the woman, even if you are simply expressing your feelings and needs...you only have a limited right to your needs, so long as they are not in some way displeasing the woman.

 

Women as a whole don't desire to understand or respect the needs of their men, other than a coffee, some breakfast or some infrequent sex, beyond that they spend about 5 seconds thinking about your needs which is done not for you, but for the sake and security of the relationship...however on the other hand you're supposed to not only understand and respect their needs and feelings but you must accommodate the entirety of the relationship around that.

 

Women are often entirely selfish, but the norm is that women must be coddled and treated like children who are helpless and not responsible for their own actions and behavior...if you as a man express your needs, they are overruled by the sensitivity and emotions of a woman's opinion or personal feelings more often than not...it's irrelevant what you feel or think in the grand scheme of things, you've only got to be just satisfied.

 

They desire to have their needs met and addressed and as this is the "noble" and manly role for you to serve...as a man your needs are always second best, and if you in any way so slightly feel so inclined to say otherwise you'll have the door slammed on your face and be labeled selfish "It's my body, it's my right to do whatever I want"...so they basically insinuate you're this rapist out for blood that is just selfish and mongering that would force a woman to do these degrading and unsatisfying things something she doesn't want to do It goes from a healthy sexual appetite to an extreme.

 

Now your wife in this case did not do this, she simply said no, she heard you, she listened but essentially told you to go take a hike...she's not going to do it...if it you were however doing this to her, bet your marbles she'd not only expect you to do it but do it with a smile and nurturing, accommodating, supportive this that and the other thing, and every woman would nod their head in agreement and celebration "you go girl!"...men are relegated to grumbling under the breathe to other men in secrecy lest they face open prosecution and punishment for their feelings because it always be assumed it's coming from the worst place...in short, marriage isn't often about men and their needs, it's about serving the needs of a woman, once you get that through your head...it'll all start to make a lot more sense.

 

Your job is as follow;

 

- Therapist (one that listens doesn't talk or advise, after all she had issues before you, now that is your problem..not to fix them, but to bear the consequences)

- Patient and understanding (regardless of her personal attitude and behavior, it's not like she's accountable for that anyway)

- Be supportive in all respects (whether she's self-destructive is irrelevant, you're the guy that's supposed to be there through thick and thin...that's why she's with you)

- Be respectful at all times (regardless of whether their behavior or actions are otherwise, the only reality is how she sees things, never beyond, never from your perspective)

 

This post may or may not get some flak but I wanted to give you what I believe is the reality of many relationships/marriages...it is not about YOU. Women often times give you that sex and thrill to tie you up into a deeper commitment...that's what they're after, that's what they need...they didn't get with you for the sex...they need your sperm, money for the diapers, support for their issues/needs and to serve as a security blanket in life...that's why you're there, you're not there to make demands or have desires beyond the confines of her own self-imposed limitations...there is no negotiations, only a compromise on your part, you are there to fix things and make her life feel more complete.

 

I have no idea what posses you to have another child with this woman, and why you would desire this kind of a life...let alone sex life. But hey, I guess you're just "built" for it, some would say.

 

Forgive me for being unable to view that label in any positive light. All those things you remember in the past man...that was just bait, it wasn't going to last forever. This is your life, welcome to marriage *pats you on the shoulder for good luck*

Edited December 19, 2013 by Ninjainpajamas

[Speakingofwhich]

 

Someone mentioned a lack of emotional closeness. Bingo. I agree completely. But what do you do about it? How did you get back close to someone? We use to be a lot closer. I mentioned vacations earlier. It's not just the sex that is perfect when we are on vacation together. our entire relationship is perfect. That's probably why the sex is better then. But how do you capture that during the mundane day in day out of life?

 

I mentioned emotional closeness because when a woman is feeling close to a man she's responsive to him. It seems right now your wife is not responsive but has built up some walls she doesn't want to take down. Or doesn't know how to take down.

 

Hate to be a wet blanket but it sounds as if now might not be the best time to try to get pg.

 

Because having a baby isn't like you think it's going to be. Although bringing a child into a marriage is a wonderful thing, it really puts a strain on the marriage.

 

The level of care a baby needs is much greater than you can imagine. And in the majority of situations you don't get much sleep for a few months, maybe even a year, as baby wants to eat, be rocked, etc., often during the night.

 

You are wanting more variation/excitement in your relationship now. Just so you know you'll most likely find after the baby is born sex will further take a back seat on the list of your wife's priorities as her maternal hormones take over.

 

My advice is to put a halt to trying to get pg for the time being and schedule an apptmt with a marriage counselor. If you don't feel you're getting anywhere find a different counselor. The good ones are out there but sometimes it take a little while to find one.

 

There are ways to restore intimacy to your marriage and it would be a good thing to do that before you have children! Because once you have children it will be much harder to find the energy, time and resolve to strengthen the connection the two of you share.

Edited December 19, 2013 by Speakingofwhich
clarity

[Ninjainpajamas]

I speak in the general context of what I believe the type of relationship and person he is with..based on my knowledge, based on what I know about people in general.

 

Therefore the reference to "women" thereafter should be taken into consideration with the association I am making towards the argument, rather than paint the world with it. However there are some things I believe are universally true in most or many cases.

 

For me it's simply about classifications of types, and generalizations having so little information about these relationships is completely appropriate given the circumstances...what more are you asking for? For all you know it could be completely and entirely true or mostly true, so would I be wrong in the context of the topic?

 

People ask vague questions with vague back-stories that are merely one perspective of the relationship...how can you expect a very specific and personalized assessment?

 

It's not personal or projecting, I know very clearly how to differentiate what I am saying in one context versus another and can be the devils advocate in any of my posts with just as much conviction because I understand both sides of the coin and that pertains to men and women. I know the point of views, I understand how both people can have different needs and feelings about things and therefore different experiences that influenced their perspective.

 

I know how women are very well, as well as men, but men more so. Most people probably assume I've been hurt and crying my little eyes out while banging on a drum somewhere in a dark hole, it's not like that at all...and it's not my experiences or knowledge is tainted or bitter...in fact unlike many people, I don't have a string of bitter stories about the opposite sex and how they've wronged me to promote my point of view on the gender. It's just simply what I see, it's what I determine objectively and to be true...without the BS and the things people say that just merely scratch the surface and prove nothing.

 

I've been told everything under the sun about relationships, seen people claim they were in the best thing in the world...without having both sides of the argument and seeing it for myself and understanding the personalities and behaviors of both individuals...I would never take it to the bank just based off what someone says on the internet...you could be saying anything, which is why I address posts in the context of what was being said or mentioned and fill in the rest myself....sometimes it's very accurate other times not so much in every capacity, after all I'm building a whole picture with a simple description and little input.

 

With that being said, taken into consideration what was said and described here...I'm confident I'm pretty close or on the money.

 

I love women and am probably one of the most considerate men that women meet...I am not selfish in all respects at least or in the typical things, I'm very considerate and understanding, patient even, great self-control...of course impassioned and strong minded, determined on the same hand, I definitely know what I am capable of and don't lack confidence...I wouldn't pressure a woman for sex, I've got too much pride in myself for that but I definitely reserve the right to leave and get it somewhere else...I will not be dependent on on a woman in a relationship who never desires sex, nor would I do all the work to get it, or beg or come out with a bag of tricks just to get her interested in it again...I've only ever had this problem once myself in a relationship and I've got a high sex drive myself...and her sex drive for the most part is non-existent, she didn't mind having sex, always orgasms...even multiple times using different methods, loved the affection and kissing and intimacy but didn't really desire it as a whole and sexual need...she never had the desire or masturbated, maybe once a month.

 

So no, this is not my personal experience or view of women (doesn't mean it can't or won't happen to me and I'd end up just like one of these guys, it's not always in your control, and I don't control women)....however I am also very aware of what goes on around me and the type of women out there in the world...I've seen what they do with my own eyes, I've seen how selfish women can be while the spotlight and critique is always on the men...so I'm very well aware of the type of women who care mostly about their own needs, in fact I know the majority of women lack the understanding of men and their needs...they may logically kind of "get it" but often don't understand why men do this or that or really why they have the needs they do....many women often understand only the things in their little bubble and even that is questionable.

 

But do you hear women talk about these women in detail, do you ever seen women jump on that bandwagon? no, you only see women in general trigger-happy and ready to pounce men because their emotions limit them to that understanding and experience or lack thereof, they don't see or watch how other women act and when they do they just ignore it...who do you think these men are they end up on the shet end of the stick with these kind of women? I don't see women running around saving men over it.

Edited December 19, 2013 by Ninjainpajamas

[Els]

IMO, folks are extrapolating waaaaay too far about things that haven't even been said or aren't in the picture. Sorry about that, OP. It's a hot-button issue that you're bringing up here.

 

The only little tidbit that might be relevant is that she said that she didn't really want to do things any differently and that if we did mix it up as I described (different positions, different rooms, lingerie) then she be doing it just for me and wouldn't be into it and she thought that I wouldn't be interested if she was doing it just for me.

 

WOULD you be interested if she did it just for you but it was clear she wasn't into it?

 

Someone mentioned a lack of emotional closeness. Bingo. I agree completely. But what do you do about it? How did you get back close to someone? We use to be a lot closer. I mentioned vacations earlier. It's not just the sex that is perfect when we are on vacation together. our entire relationship is perfect. That's probably why the sex is better then. But how do you capture that during the mundane day in day out of life?

 

How's the date night aspect of your R going - do you go out together reasonably often, just the two of you? Do you both do little romantic things together or for each other? Non-sexual gestures of physical affection?

[FallingLeaves]

Ninja, men who love women do not constantly rant about how awful we are.

 

The OP isn't obligated to cater exclusively to his wife's needs and ignore his own. If he is worried about the lack of sex now, from what I have heard the situation will only worsen when a baby comes.

 

I wouldn't waste your effort on him. Some men just don't understand relationships, and look to blame the other person for all the issues possible.

 

OP- I'm betting she is hesitant because she does probably feel like sex is a chore right now. Also, hate to be this up front, but most men have trouble really getting their partner off. If you want more sex, the answer is simple- make her want it too.

Edited December 19, 2013 by FallingLeaves
spelling

[cat5]

Thanks everyone for your input. Regardless of how I may feel about what you had to say I appreciate you taking the time.

 

A couple clarifying points. A few people have stated I should be wary of having a child with my wife if sex is an issue now because those issues will be amplified after the baby. I know and I agree. We already have one child together. While there is going to most certainly be a drop off in frequency, that will most likely be temporary. A year or so if last time is any indication. Our frequency of relations has increased, not to the honeymoon level, but to an acceptable after adjusting to our first kid.

 

Elswyth asked if I would be OK with my wife doing some of these things for me even if she wasn't into it. It depends. Attitude is everything. Lets take wearing lingerie as an example. She has communicated already that she isn't enthusiastic about wearing any. Now that it has been communicated if she were to take initiative surprise me by wearing some, I would be thrilled. Juxtapose putting on lingerie and doing it while rolling her eyes, asking if I'm happy now and asking if she is free from the obligatory lingerie modeling for a while. I don't think I would like that at all and it wouldn't be worth it. Attitude is everything. If someone who loves you does something for you in loving way it means so much more. If she had a good attitude, it might mean even more to me that if I had made a suggestion that she was completely on board with.

 

Someone else had mentioned that I needed to come to terms with the honeymoon phase of the relationship being over. I hear ya, but I don't think that is really what I'm seeking. I've mentioned vacation sex a few times. And while I agree that while on vacation everything is sunshine and unicorns so its easier for it to be fun and exciting. What I'm asking for and seeking is a glimmer of that the other 50 weeks of the year. It doesn't necessarily have to run hot and cold in that manner. I think a lot of this has to do simply with her being able to, or better yet, allowing herself to let go when our kid isn't 200 miles or more away. She needs to understand that just because she is a mom now she doesn't have to be one in the bedroom. It's as if she has this mental image of what a good mother is and its not possible to withdraw from that role even when the kid is asleep. For her that hat can only come off when there is a great deal of space.

 

There has been some mention of life stresses and so forth might be the root cause, sapping her of energy. That's not it. She has it pretty good. So good that I don't infrequently feel jealous of her life. She stays at home with our child and he is not infrequently in the care of family or others during the day while I'm at work. She is free to come and go as she sees fit with as much or more freedom than most people and most stay at home moms. Money isn't an issue either. She has for all intents and purposes a blank check to buy whatever she wants whenever she wants. I on the other hand have a lot of work responsibilities. And before anyone jumps to conclusions, I am home as much as she wants me there. Also childcare is split evenly when I am there. This includes midnight feedings and the such even though I am the sole bread winner. I sense beta male rants forthcoming.

Edited December 19, 2013 by cat5

[janedoe67]

I cannot believe I am saying this....but I do see some of Ninja's points. Bottom line, if we aren't going to condone adultery (I sure hope we aren't) then the only person we can have those needs met from is our spouse. No one gets married expecting to NOT be physically intimate, so yeah, the vows do include sex whether we said the word or not.

 

And sadly, anytime on a forum a man comes and has any kind of complaint or request about sex, the women come out in droves and beat him about the head.

[cat5]

Elswyth also asked about date nights and I forgot to respond to that in my last post.

 

Our date nights are, well, weird to me at least. When we go on date nights they are fun. There is flirty conversation and we both seem to enjoy our time together. When we get home we will send the sitter on there way and its like someone flipped a switch. The last couple of hours ceased to have happened. Its as if those brief moments of recapping our kids evening while we were gone completely killed any sort of relationship buzz that the date night had fan the flames of. To the point that I can't recall the last time a date night ended in sex. I feel pretty confident saying that if we went home to an empty house things would end differently.

 

It use to be that I was the driving force behind those nights. I'd plan the activity or dinner but not as much anymore. Not out of bitterness or anger but out of indifference. Of course I realize there is more to date nights than sex. But if I know I'm more likely to get some if we don't go on a date, then it makes the planning, effort, etc less worth it. If she wants to have a date night, then sure lets go, it'll be fun. If not, that's fine too, hell I might get lucky.

[bwright42tx]

Elswyth also asked about date nights and I forgot to respond to that in my last post.

 

Our date nights are, well, weird to me at least. When we go on date nights they are fun. There is flirty conversation and we both seem to enjoy our time together. When we get home we will send the sitter on there way and its like someone flipped a switch. The last couple of hours ceased to have happened. Its as if those brief moments of recapping our kids evening while we were gone completely killed any sort of relationship buzz that the date night had fan the flames of. To the point that I can't recall the last time a date night ended in sex. I feel pretty confident saying that if we went home to an empty house things would end differently.

 

It use to be that I was the driving force behind those nights. I'd plan the activity or dinner but not as much anymore. Not out of bitterness or anger but out of indifference. Of course I realize there is more to date nights than sex. But if I know I'm more likely to get some if we don't go on a date, then it makes the planning, effort, etc less worth it. If she wants to have a date night, then sure lets go, it'll be fun. If not, that's fine too, hell I might get lucky.

 

Is it possible to end the date night at a hotel? What are the finances like? Can you have an overnight sitter? Or just have a room booked, but don't stay all night. Go from date night to the hotel and then home.

[Ninjainpajamas]

cat5 you are being reasonable based on what you've been saying ever since the beginning, but it's not you who is the problem here or at least anything in particular you are dong it seems...at least not ever in it's entirety to blame and doesn't seem to be the driving force due to the disconnect from what is being said here.

 

It seems to me like you are putting in the effort, you do love your wife and do wish to keep things even in a little capacity new and exciting...that is the impression I got from you but it doesn't seem that your wife shares the same interest or desire with you.

 

So I don't believe there is anything you can do to bring back the spice unless your wife is willing to be open, honest and communicate her needs and express herself.

 

It definitely appears you are in the beta male role position...you provide, you are the sole-bread winner, she doesn't seem concerned with your needs, she seems fixated and only concerned with her child and having another with you...that's how these women roll when they want a family, you don't have to be the perfect man you've just got to provide those basic things, essentially be reliable/trust-worthy and it sounds like she's living for the most part a convenient life that you've accommodated her and she doesn't desire to in any way prioritize you. What is she giving back to you?

 

I would sacrifice to make a woman that I loved happy, I may not be in the mood or desire watching a movie that she likes, or visiting somewhere I really would rather not go...but of course I'd do it for her especially if she did things for me that made me happy, why it's so difficult for some women to imagine sharing the same attitude for her husband is beyond me, but I guess you can always make excuses...but if it's that repulsive or uncomfortable being intimate with your husband, maybe you're better off owning some cats. But no, many women want their needs met, but aren't concerned with a mans sexual needs...they think it's different, separate, less important because it may be to themselves.

 

You are not really being demanding about your needs or pushing for answers, you seem like too patient and understanding even if you're not getting anything for it. You need to start expressing yourself.

 

I know a lot of women here will tell you how to be as a man...but if men were like that they wouldn't get any respect, it would never work, they'd create a bunch of beta males whom they would realize they wouldn't want to be with and they never really want it to be that way they just say it because they want the guy that's not doing it to do it...the guy who does it because he does it, there's no challenge in that...therefore you don't get taken seriously.

 

Nothing is going to yield the results you desire, like doing this or that and the other thing...a woman that desires to be with you will do so in the not so typical of story book romance themes, that I believe will just be a waste of money for you...you need to change the way you behave and her attitude toward this relationship and start becoming more expressive about your needs and get her to open up, don't just back away...get to the bottom of the problem and issues here, you need to take more control and stop passively living in this relationship because she is not going to take the initiative and tell what it is or how to fix it...if it even can be "fixed"

 

You're letting this happen, you're letting this relationship continue like this...it's up to you whether you want to continue this way or throw pebbles into a lake trying to fill it up...you need to directly confront her and tell her how you really feel, what you really need and want in this marriage, you need transparency and communcation...otherwise I can promise you she will never see it nor care to change it.

[xxoo]

I suggest a different approach. You've both agreed things have become mundane. That bothers you more than her, apparently, as you are the one who's brought it up. Your solutions are things that would turn you on more, while she is still uninspired. I can see how that was less than appealing for her.

 

A better solution may be things that turn her on more. Some suggestions I can make are taking a month off from ttc, backing off on sex and letting the desire build up, and then introducing some sort of erotica that hits her hot buttons. While I'm not a fan, many women seem to go crazy for that 50 Shades of Gray book. Get her aroused, and then tell her what you want (while she's turned on).

[Els]

Elswyth also asked about date nights and I forgot to respond to that in my last post.

 

Our date nights are, well, weird to me at least. When we go on date nights they are fun. There is flirty conversation and we both seem to enjoy our time together. When we get home we will send the sitter on there way and its like someone flipped a switch. The last couple of hours ceased to have happened. Its as if those brief moments of recapping our kids evening while we were gone completely killed any sort of relationship buzz that the date night had fan the flames of. To the point that I can't recall the last time a date night ended in sex. I feel pretty confident saying that if we went home to an empty house things would end differently.

 

It use to be that I was the driving force behind those nights. I'd plan the activity or dinner but not as much anymore. Not out of bitterness or anger but out of indifference. Of course I realize there is more to date nights than sex. But if I know I'm more likely to get some if we don't go on a date, then it makes the planning, effort, etc less worth it. If she wants to have a date night, then sure lets go, it'll be fun. If not, that's fine too, hell I might get lucky.

 

Thanks for answering. I think there is much, much more going on behind the scenes here than just her not being interested in donning lingerie, from what you've said. She seems ambivalent about going out on dates too - which is more worrisome to me than the whole lingerie thing, from a woman's perspective. And yes, I'd imagine that having young children at home after you get back wouldn't help the 'sexy' aspect of the night, and it's probably expensive and/or worrisome to get someone to watch them overnight.

 

Given that you've mentioned that when you do get vacations together everything is great, therein probably lies the root cause. Not so because your wife is being 'selfish', IMO, but probably because she'd feel phony, like she's playing a role, doing all those sexual things when she feels no sexual arousal/desire.

 

And that's the key here. You want to try and re-spark that feeling of arousal and desire within her, within the constraints of having children at home.

 

How do you do that? I'll be darned if I know, because I don't have children. Hopefully the other ladies who have kids at home can help with that. I would strongly suggest focusing on this, though, as it is the bigger issue and probably the root of all the other issues.

[Clockwork]

I don't want to sound like a downer, but there is nothing you can do about a selfish spouse. The same way there is nothing you can do about a selfish friend, sibling, parent, etc. You can't force someone to do something out of the goodness of their heart. You cannot force someone to think about others before they think of themselves. All you can do is hope, pray, that it will be different. That they'll see the light.

 

Basically what I am saying is that you can't change a person. They have to changed themselves. I realized this having an alcoholic father in law. We can't change him at all. We can only support him.

 

As for a spouse, my wife is far from selfish, she thinks about herself last before everyone else. Maybe that is why I married her. It must suck to have a selfish spouse but if you want an alternative you should try counselling.

[Mr. Lucky]

She has communicated already that she isn't enthusiastic about wearing any.

Is the lingerie wearing and variety of positions something you once engaged in as a couple? In other words, are you asking her to do something she's been opposed to all along ???

 

Mr. Lucky

[giotto]

cat5, she is not into it and you'll never change her mind. She has said she would do it for you and you say you wouldn't mind if there was the right attitude. Well, her attitude is that she doesn't want it. I don't see how she can do what you want without resenting it. And I don't really understand why you want to force your wife to do something she is not into. Yes, because you would be forcing her. Accept it. Have another child and things will get worse. It's sad, but obviously there is a mismatch and it'll always be there.

 

G (someone who's been in your shoes)

[blueskyday]

I agree with the posters who say that it might help to focus on trying to spark her desire. A good relationship rule is to always offer something in return for asking for something. Ask her what she needs. Tenderly respond by listening and holding her hand. Really, sometimes that's all I need to spark desire!

 

Make it equally about her. She is probably under a ton of pressure. She may feel inadequate as a woman because she isn't getting pregnant. Reach out to her emotionally.