Separated but not necessarily seeking a divorce

[Zosimus]

My wife and I have been separated for almost a year now. The root cause of the problem was money. At a certain point we were literally unable to pay the rent so I sent her back to live with mommy and rented a room until I could get back on my financial feet.

 

When we first separated I told her and myself that we weren't really separating but about a week later she and I sat down and I told her that I thought I had just been in denial. I felt that we needed to analyze why the relationship was failing, how we could fix it, and whether counseling would help us. We've never had any counseling.

 

I have my financial situation in shape now. She had gotten me deeply into debt, but now I have it all paid off and I have 6,000 saved. My wife and I still see each other every week and we usually go out on a date or something. We still have an active sex life. We still send each other lovey-dovey text messages. The problem is neither physical nor emotional. It's intellectual.

 

This is not the first time I've been together with my wife and she's blown all the cash. The time previous to this one we were flat broke and had to move in with my father-in-law to get back on our financial feet. When he left there we had 5,000 saved and we had agreed to save more towards buying a house. It took about 15 months, but not only did she spend all the 5,000 but we were almost another 5,000 in debt (Peruvian money, not dollars, but you get the idea).

 

How can I get back together with her and know that history won't repeat? How can I know that we won't just end up broke again? We have two kids and she wants a third. We need to buy a house and 6,000 down won't be enough. We'll need at least 10 or 15 grand down and once we're in that situation we ABSOLUTELY CANNOT have financial hiccups along the way like we did in the past because it will mean foreclosure, eviction, and the loss of our dreams.

 

Now things are more complicated. I'm not seeing anyone else, but there's this girl Ysabel who called me at 11:00 two nights ago to say that she really likes the way I hug her. So now I find myself thinking about her a lot. My wife knows and she says, "Why don't you just tell this girl that we're not really separated?"

 

But we are really separated. Sure, we're not broken up. Divorce is not in the works, but I think that my wife is in denial about the status of our relationship. We're back to bf-gf rather than husband-wife-living-together. I fear that she thinks that we'll just naturally get back together now that I have more money and that the problems that forced the separation won't ever be addressed unless I take stronger action.

 

Ysabel's really attractive and younger than my wife. Don't think I'm not tempted.

[d0nnivain]

Send her for financial couseling & use birth control.

[TaraMaiden]

Honestly?

 

I was waiting for the other shoe to drop, and you didn't let me down.

Basically, you're a classic 'cake-eater' in the making.

 

The person who has the wrong perspective on your wife's and your relationship, is you, not her.

You are NOT separated, if you're hooking up regularly, having sex and behaving 'like bf-gf.'

 

That is still a relationship, and what you're thinking of, is infidelity.

You married your wife.

That marriage has not been dissolved.

Ergo, you are contemplating adultery.

 

Even in a bona-fide, unmarried BF/GF relationship, screwing someone else, when you're committed to a significant other, is deeply objectionable.

 

Face it buddy; don't try to dress this up as anything other than you wanting to sow your wild oats, and seeking some kind of approval.

 

Nope.

not on.

 

Create separate bank accounts for you and your wife. Three, to be precise.

If she's working, you both contribute to the joint (bills, home expenses) account, and those funds are used solely for paying your monthly bills.

Then, you each have your own personal accounts, and when she overdraws on hers, that's her problem.

 

You have your own account, and she has no access to that.

 

And quit messing about.

Either stay with her, or divorce.

but don't give us any of that 'we're separated, so it must be ok' kinda crap.

It doesn't wash.

[Elias33]

Whatever you do, do not engage the new woman, you will ask for more complication. The grass is greener....

 

As for your wife, counseling? Put your foot down on these issues, but gently. Lastly, be honest to yourself what exactly you feel for your wife, divorce should be the absolute last resort as you have children with her as well. And if you end up divorcing, let it be because you tried everything else, not because of another woman, you will thank yourself for it. Good luck to you sir.

[oldshirt]

If your wife is really that bad with money then two options -

 

- take over 100% of the finances and don't let her have any access to it or have her name on anything.

 

- divorce her but continue the personal relationship and each of you have separate finances.

 

As a married couple her debts are your debts and her credit rating (or lack thereof) affects your credit rating.

 

This whole thing with the other woman is jus a distraction, wishful thinking and visions of sugar plums dancing in your head. Time to grow up.

[Zosimus]

Wow, whoever that chick is, she must have some serious issues with men.

 

Okay, here's specifically what I want my wife to do:

 

1. I want her to make a resumé. She's been at the same elementary school for two years running. It's a private school and it boosted its tuition last year, but didn't give the teachers a raise. I want her to look around to see if there are other elementary schools that might pay her more. I don't want her to blindly sign the same contract with the same school for a third year without even looking for other work. The ideal time to look for a new job in the elementary school is November, so that's already passed. I've been asking her to make a resumé since June. She just says she doesn't know how. There are businesses nearby where the girls will type up a resumé for you for S/.10. She should just go to one of those.

2. I want her to be able to establish a budget and follow it. When we were together before, she spent all the money. Worse than that, she couldn't tell me what she had spent it on. Everything here runs on cash - none of the stores take debit cards, except for the most expensive "posh" stores. We can't afford to shop there.

3. This is the hardest one. I want to know that she can be responsible with money. Tell me, tocayo, how can I know that she will be responsible? How can I trust her again after what's happened? She and I both tell people that our separation is over money, but there's more to it than that. I feel like she took advantage of me. I can't trust her anymore. What should I do?

 

Really sometimes I think my wife is just useless. She can't seem to do anything by herself. She always needs me or mommy to hold her hand. Even to take one of the kids to the doctor's requires mommy to go with her. What's up with that?

[pteromom]

Okay, here's specifically what I want my wife to do:

 

1. I want her to make a resumé. She's been at the same elementary school for two years running. It's a private school and it boosted its tuition last year, but didn't give the teachers a raise. I want her to look around to see if there are other elementary schools that might pay her more.

 

This isn't your call to make. It is HER choice where she works.

 

2. I want her to be able to establish a budget and follow it. When we were together before, she spent all the money. Worse than that, she couldn't tell me what she had spent it on. Everything here runs on cash - none of the stores take debit cards, except for the most expensive "posh" stores. We can't afford to shop there.

 

She may be incapable of this. You may have to set up the finances in the relationship in a way that minimizes any damage she could do. She should not have credit cards. She should not have access to your savings. She should have a set allowance of money (and you should as well) to spend as she wishes.

 

3. This is the hardest one. I want to know that she can be responsible with money. Tell me, tocayo, how can I know that she will be responsible? How can I trust her again after what's happened? She and I both tell people that our separation is over money, but there's more to it than that. I feel like she took advantage of me. I can't trust her anymore. What should I do?

 

Again, she may be incapable. It's possible she took advantage of you, but it is possible that she is just really financially irresponsible and it has nothing to do with you at all. She can learn to be better, but it will be a process.

 

Really sometimes I think my wife is just useless. She can't seem to do anything by herself. She always needs me or mommy to hold her hand. Even to take one of the kids to the doctor's requires mommy to go with her. What's up with that?

 

Yes, that is really strange.

[d0nnivain]

I agree with the person who indicated that you will probably need to teach your wife how to be responsible with money. Not everybody learns this skill although everyone needs it.

 

 

Why not work with your wife to create her new resume, then help her to send them out, although since it's almost January, you missed your November window. If it needs tweeking, then send it to the service but since you are trying to teach financial responsibility, DIY may be your better option.

[Zosimus]

This isn't your call to make. It is HER choice where she works.

Technically you may be right. In practice, however, I am not going to accept my wife working for minimum wage at the same school for the rest of her life without even putting together a resumé and trying to better that. If that is truly her choice, then it will be my choice to never reconcile with her. I didn't pay to put her through school in order to have her work for minimum wage.

[TaraMaiden]

Wow, whoever that chick is, she must have some serious issues with men.

 

Excuse me - are you referring to me?

 

If so - and only if so - First of all, I'm not a 'chick'. That's just disrespectful.

Secondly, I have 'serious issues' with people who veer towards idiotic behaviour, regardless of gender.

 

Thirdly, have you stopped to consider just how much of trhis mess is your responsibility?

You've done a good job so far as an enabler....

 

You also sound very controlling - and she sounds as if she likes and/or needs that.

So frankly, you've been playing along with this....

 

Okay, here's specifically what I want my wife to do:

 

1. I want her to make a resumé. She's been at the same elementary school for two years running. It's a private school and it boosted its tuition last year, but didn't give the teachers a raise. I want her to look around to see if there are other elementary schools that might pay her more. I don't want her to blindly sign the same contract with the same school for a third year without even looking for other work. The ideal time to look for a new job in the elementary school is November, so that's already passed. I've been asking her to make a resumé since June. She just says she doesn't know how. There are businesses nearby where the girls will type up a resumé for you for S/.10. She should just go to one of those.

2. I want her to be able to establish a budget and follow it. When we were together before, she spent all the money. Worse than that, she couldn't tell me what she had spent it on. Everything here runs on cash - none of the stores take debit cards, except for the most expensive "posh" stores. We can't afford to shop there.

3. This is the hardest one. I want to know that she can be responsible with money. Tell me, tocayo, how can I know that she will be responsible? How can I trust her again after what's happened? She and I both tell people that our separation is over money, but there's more to it than that. I feel like she took advantage of me. I can't trust her anymore. What should I do?

 

Really sometimes I think my wife is just useless. She can't seem to do anything by herself. She always needs me or mommy to hold her hand. Even to take one of the kids to the doctor's requires mommy to go with her. What's up with that?

 

You're full of wants.

What if she's happy in her work?

Who told you that you'd ever have the right to have a say in her professional future?

If she wants to do what she's doing, you have no right to steer that....

And if she's demonstrating dependent behaviour - what are you doing going along with that - but enabling it?

[Zosimus]

I agree with the person who indicated that you will probably need to teach your wife how to be responsible with money. Not everybody learns this skill although everyone needs it.

 

 

Why not work with your wife to create her new resume, then help her to send them out, although since it's almost January, you missed your November window. If it needs tweeking, then send it to the service but since you are trying to teach financial responsibility, DIY may be your better option.

 

Well, good news. She did make a resumé as agreed, although it's not really that good of one. We'll fix it up tonight. Thanks for the advice! It's much better than all the feminist bull that the English birds are chucking about. I guess some people aren't into giving advice as much as belittling others.

[Mercy88]

Wow. Everyone has given you pretty good advice. Especially TaraMaiden. In almost every sentence you are degrading your wife. "She mad a resume but it's not that good." Let's focus on the fact that she at least did it and not complain about it's quality.

 

If she will not quit blowing all of the money then STOP giving her access to it. You do sound controlling and should seriously consider how much of this problem you should be held responsible for.

 

Do not be mad at someone for behaving the way that you have enabled them to behave.

 

You want an independent woman who doesn't need you or mommy for anything? Then stop holding her hand.

 

Or find someone else.

[TaraMaiden]

Well, good news. She did make a resumé as agreed, although it's not really that good of one. We'll fix it up tonight. Thanks for the advice! It's much better than all the feminist bull that the English birds are chucking about. I guess some people aren't into giving advice as much as belittling others.

Pot calling the kettle black, much....?

 

I haven't belittled you.

I have observed legitimate points which indicate your responsibility in this situation and that you appear to have control issues.

It seems you don't like being held up to such transparency....

 

I see from your comments that you are the type of man who feels a woman needs to take second place, and that being assertive, outspoken and having a brain of her own is an anathema to you.

 

'Feminist bull? English 'birds'...? Dear me, if this is all you can manage to come up with in order to dismiss my contribution to your thread, you demonstrate a singular inability to match my intellect.

 

Quelle surprise....

 

First of all, I'm not a feminist. I've already told you that.

And a perusal of my posts will bear this out - if you were a woman talking about her husband in this way, I would treat you in precisely the same manner.

 

Secondly, I'm not 'English', I'm British.

I am however, also trilingual, as I have Italian blood and have lived in France for many years.

Therefore, I would consider myself to be cosmopolitan, and a 'woman of the world'.

 

Accumulated experience of varying different cultures confirms unequivocally, that you are a biased chauvinist and a dinosaur in the making.

Thankfully, in the minority, but odious just the same.

 

Good luck finding therapy for your control issues.

You're going to need both.

 

[Zosimus]

Wow. Everyone has given you pretty good advice. Especially TaraMaiden. In almost every sentence you are degrading your wife. "She mad a resume but it's not that good." Let's focus on the fact that she at least did it and not complain about it's quality.

 

If she will not quit blowing all of the money then STOP giving her access to it. You do sound controlling and should seriously consider how much of this problem you should be held responsible for.

 

Do not be mad at someone for behaving the way that you have enabled them to behave.

 

You want an independent woman who doesn't need you or mommy for anything? Then stop holding her hand.

 

Or find someone else.

 

Let me see if I understand your point of view.

 

First of all, I sound controlling to you. Yet your advice to me is to not permit my bride to have access to the money. So basically you think I can become less controlling by becoming more controlling. That's an interesting point of view.

 

Second, using the advice that other people gave me (not Taramaiden) I was able to determine that the reason why she didn't want to make a resumé and apply at other schools. It turns out she suffers from feelings of inferiority and has fear of rejection. She doesn't feel that she deserves even to have the job she has and doesn't want to apply for another one because she thinks she would be rejected.

 

Third, I don't get what you mean by "enabling someone to behave." I treated my wife as though she were an independent adult capable of making independent decisions and accepting the responsibility for her actions. Sadly, this scenario hasn't work out well. Accordingly I'm not mad or even angry, I have merely sent her back to mommy while I put the financial house in order.

 

Finally, "find someone else" is not to my way of thinking. Perhaps you can cavalierly abandon a marriage without a backwards glance, but where I come from (Peru) marriages are supposed to continue, and, when problems arise, they are supposed to be addressed. At any rate, you make it sound like a divorce would be as simple as snapping one's fingers. I would have to be separated for 4 years before I could even START the process.

 

P.S. Exactly how do you think I should hold myself responsible for this situation?

[Zosimus]

Pot calling the kettle black, much....?

 

I haven't belittled you.

I have observed legitimate points which indicate your responsibility in this situation and that you appear to have control issues.

It seems you don't like being held up to such transparency....

 

I see from your comments that you are the type of man who feels a woman needs to take second place, and that being assertive, outspoken and having a brain of her own is an anathema to you.

 

'Feminist bull? English 'birds'...? Dear me, if this is all you can manage to come up with in order to dismiss my contribution to your thread, you demonstrate a singular inability to match my intellect.

 

Quelle surprise....

 

First of all, I'm not a feminist. I've already told you that.

And a perusal of my posts will bear this out - if you were a woman talking about her husband in this way, I would treat you in precisely the same manner.

 

Secondly, I'm not 'English', I'm British.

I am however, also trilingual, as I have Italian blood and have lived in France for many years.

Therefore, I would consider myself to be cosmopolitan, and a 'woman of the world'.

 

Accumulated experience of varying different cultures confirms unequivocally, that you are a biased chauvinist and a dinosaur in the making.

Thankfully, in the minority, but odious just the same.

 

Good luck finding therapy for your control issues.

You're going to need both.

 

I've held off responding to you until now because it has been pretty obvious that you have some issues that have nothing to do with me. Additionally you seem to find it necessary to engage in personal attacks such as saying "you demonstrate a singular inability to match my intellect" when I have made no attempt whatsoever to demonstrate any kind of intellect here. I simply asked for advice that would permit me to make progress with a problem I had.

 

There are different types of women in the world. Some like having various men in orbit around then whereas others prefer to have one guy in their life who fulfills their needs. Some are willing to hop into bed with any man who floats their boat while others view sex as a prize that they jealously guard. Some think that having a career is more important than having a good relationship whereas others would rather have a traditional family and not work.

 

Now the thing you need to realize is that there is no one best way. If a woman wants to stay home and raise kids, or go out and work, or even be a dominatrix prostitute then more power to her. There is probably a man out there who will be right for any kind of woman around.

 

Now just as there are certain types of women, there are also certain types of men. Apparently, however, you are unwilling to grant me the same courtesy that I have already granted you: To permit me to pursue happiness in the form I choose and consistent with the culture in which I find myself. Peru isn't the UK, it isn't France, nor is it Italy. It isn't even Spain. We live in an entirely different world, with different ideas, different expectations, and different perspectives. When in Peru do as the Peruvians do.

 

In short, what you need to understand is simple: Every thing I do is normal for the culture in which I am.

 

Let me repeat that for you: Every thing I do is normal for the culture in which I am.

 

By the same token, were you to find yourself in Lima with these types of ultra-modern radical feminist ideals, you would find yourself shunned by men and women alike. Perhaps on the streets of France no one bats an eyelash at these things. It's a matter of culture.

 

Now I'll thank you kindly to stop judging my culture on the basis of your own or that of your adopted country.

[TaraMaiden]

Let me see if I understand your point of view.

 

First of all, I sound controlling to you. Yet your advice to me is to not permit my bride to have access to the money. So basically you think I can become less controlling by becoming more controlling. That's an interesting point of view.

No, you become less controlling by encouraging her to govern her own finances sensibly. Separate accounts, different spending liberties. That way, once she reaches her limits, you don't offer any solution or remedy to bail her out.

 

Second, using the advice that other people gave me (not Taramaiden) I was able to determine that the reason why she didn't want to make a resumé and apply at other schools. It turns out she suffers from feelings of inferiority and has fear of rejection. She doesn't feel that she deserves even to have the job she has and doesn't want to apply for another one because she thinks she would be rejected.

Have you suggested she consider therapy or counselling?

What she suffers from may be one thing, but what are you personally and pro-actively doing to dissipate those feelings, or encourage her to recognise them as being incorrect?

 

Third, I don't get what you mean by "enabling someone to behave." I treated my wife as though she were an independent adult capable of making independent decisions and accepting the responsibility for her actions. Sadly, this scenario hasn't work out well. Accordingly I'm not mad or even angry, I have merely sent her back to mommy while I put the financial house in order.

You enable your wife's behaviour by consistently remedying her mistakes and assisting her to get out of financial trouble. The more you prop her up, the less she will learn to stand on her own two feet. Given all the insecurities you maintain she has, it sounds as if, rather than enabling her to seek independence, confidence, assurance and strength, you've rather played on her weaknesses and taken charge of the situation.

See, we all do what works.

 

And whenever we play into someone else's hang-ups, we reap a reward, a pay-off.

 

What's your emotional pay-off for the way you've behaved with your wife?

You must have gotten some kind of moral reward, or you wouldn't keep doing it....

 

Finally, "find someone else" is not to my way of thinking.

Really....?

I'm not seeing anyone else, but there's this girl Ysabel who called me at 11:00 two nights ago to say that she really likes the way I hug her. So now I find myself thinking about her a lot.....Ysabel's really attractive and younger than my wife. Don't think I'm not tempted.

You could have fooled me.....

 

 

Perhaps you can cavalierly abandon a marriage without a backwards glance, but where I come from (Peru) marriages are supposed to continue, and, when problems arise, they are supposed to be addressed. At any rate, you make it sound like a divorce would be as simple as snapping one's fingers. I would have to be separated for 4 years before I could even START the process.

 

But you ARE separated. you've insisted such a thing yourself. In your first post. several times in fact. One year down, three to go.

However, you also admit to having regular sex with your wife, and being in a virtual Bf/GF situation.... You sound confused.

Either that, or it's 'risk and reward'...... you have the problem of her financial ineptitude and total lack of self-esteem/worth, but you also have a regular and reliable, affectionate bed-fellow.

 

P.S. Exactly how do you think I should hold myself responsible for this situation?

 

by the very fact that the situation has reached this level, and that it would probably still continue, because you don't trust her to change, you are enabling the matter to continue.

 

In order for the situation to change, you have to be the catalyst that changes it.

[carhill]

Based on the OP, it sounds like a fundamental, and repetitive, financial disconnect.

 

I'd end conjugal relations and file for divorce. No sense in perpetuating a non-productive relationship, IMO. At minimum, if you must be separated for four years to file for divorce, then formalize that. Conjugal relations may invalidate any assertions of separation.

 

If you do remain separated and do not seek divorce, I'd draft a separation agreement and settle it. Depending on where you reside, absent appropriate proof of separation, living like this could have marked legal and financial repercussions.

 

If you wish to entertain other relationship potentials while officially separated, that's your prerogative. If you do, I'd advise to leave no ambiguity about the state of your marital affairs, on any front.

[TaraMaiden]

I've held off responding to you until now because it has been pretty obvious that you have some issues that have nothing to do with me.

You won't believe me, I know, but I assure you, I have no issues whatsoever, whether to do with you or not.

 

Additionally you seem to find it necessary to engage in personal attacks such as saying "you demonstrate a singular inability to match my intellect" when I have made no attempt whatsoever to demonstrate any kind of intellect here.

 

I am aware of that. the barbed insults you threw my way were frankly, beneath any person's intelligence, and utterly unwarranted. As we say here, "you started it"....

 

I simply asked for advice that would permit me to make progress with a problem I had.

Where have I not given that advice?

From my very first post, I offered that.

 

There are different types of women in the world. Some like having various men in orbit around then whereas others prefer to have one guy in their life who fulfills their needs. Some are willing to hop into bed with any man who floats their boat while others view sex as a prize that they jealously guard. Some think that having a career is more important than having a good relationship whereas others would rather have a traditional family and not work.

 

Relevance.....?

 

Now the thing you need to realize is that there is no one best way.

Never said there was.....

 

If a woman wants to stay home and raise kids, or go out and work, or even be a dominatrix prostitute then more power to her. There is probably a man out there who will be right for any kind of woman around.

Right.... I have been both a career woman and a stay-at-home mother, so not sure where you're going with this....

 

 

Now just as there are certain types of women, there are also certain types of men. Apparently, however, you are unwilling to grant me the same courtesy that I have already granted you: To permit me to pursue happiness in the form I choose and consistent with the culture in which I find myself. Peru isn't the UK, it isn't France, nor is it Italy. It isn't even Spain. We live in an entirely different world, with different ideas, different expectations, and different perspectives. When in Peru do as the Peruvians do.

First of all, there is no way of knowing where anyone comes from, until they clarify that point. For all I know, you might have come from Italy, France or Spain.

 

You may believe that your behaviour is reflected by your country's cultures, but there are people of all types, in all cultures, it's simply the degrees to which they manifest....

 

In short, what you need to understand is simple: Every thing I do is normal for the culture in which I am.

 

Let me repeat that for you: Every thing I do is normal for the culture in which I am.

Yeah, see, but here's the thing:

The vast majority of people answering here, are NOT from Peru. Therefore, they will respond from a base thy are familiar with, even if it's alien to you.

 

let me repeat that for you:

The vast majority of people answering here, are NOT from Peru. Therefore, they will respond from a base thy are familiar with, even if it's alien to you.

 

 

By the same token, were you to find yourself in Lima with these types of ultra-modern radical feminist ideals, you would find yourself shunned by men and women alike. Perhaps on the streets of France no one bats an eyelash at these things. It's a matter of culture.

Infidelity, separation and financial problems are global issues my friend, you'll find such problems arising everywhere.

You're not the first separated man who's still having conjugal relations with his wife, to post here. neither are you the first man posting here who's encountered financial problems with their spouse.

In fact, it swings both ways....

 

Now I'll thank you kindly to stop judging my culture on the basis of your own or that of your adopted country.

Every post so far has not even touched on judging you from your culture, because this is the first I've heard of you coming from Lima.

It's a bit late to wave the Peruvian Flag so far into the thread, now, given that everything I've said has been irrelevant with regard to your provenance....

 

And where did you get the idea I live in France?

 

I said I LIVED in France, that's not where I am now.

See what I mean about jumping to conclusions?