Guys, Standards and the Abundance Mentality

[Anela]

 

How independent or successful you are. Eh, those things don't matter to me. As long as the woman is where she should be at her age than I'm fine. Like a woman shouldn't be 30 years old living with her parents working fast food. I don't care about independence as long as she isn't super needy.

 

"Where she should be"? I live with family, and am in my late thirties. I'm aware it isn't the best - I don't like it myself, but I have my reasons.

[PogoStick]

Boy could I use a good toaster. They don't make them like they used to. We had the same Sears toaster for 20 years as I grew up. The new one from Walmart didn't even last 6 months. Sheesh!

 

PS. Does anyone elses toaster nag them to do the dishes too?

[Bigcitydreamer]

See to me I took "makes him feel good" and "attractive" to be very very broad. Pretty much every single quality can fit in these categories. For example for someone to feel good, they might require mental stimulation, solid family ties, a connection to the outdoors. So naturally that guy will want a girl in his life that allows him to experience these things which make him feel good. Obviously different people have different things that make them feel good inside so they make look for different types of people. This is beyond sex and pretty much beyond anything that another person is actually doing for you, besides allowing you to meet your potential. Like the situation of a person who is really smart and likes to talk about all kinds of fascinating current issues. This person feels good when they talk about this stuff because they find it interesting. So having a girlfriend who also talks about this stuff will provide him with that opportunity to do something that makes him feel good.

 

The article may be bs but I take it very broadly and when you do that it does make sense (kind of haha). I have always said its about how someone makes me feel and I'm not talking about someone just being nice to me or being affectionate with me.

 

I think men and women want basically the same thing and have the same standards and opportunities. Men just.. Lack a good vocab? Haha

[MrCastle]

You really can't win in this argument can you? Too few standards and it's "oh I'm not special. He just picked me out of a bunch of others like me."

 

Too many standards and it's "oh he's expecting perfection. He's asking for too much."

 

The bottom line is, no normal, well adjusted person has an actual list of standards/demands.

 

This entire forum tries to logically explain dating trends but fails to cover the biggest element of dating, and that is -- the intangibles.

 

The chemistry. The stuff you can't see. The stuff you either have or you don't. The chemistry you have with someone or you don't.

 

I've used the OLD experience as an example many times. So, most women are quite picky on there, yeah? Not that they can be blamed, the thing is rigged overwhelmingly in their favor, so they have the ability to be picky if they so choose to be.

 

Alright so let's say the woman wants a 6 ft tall, muscular guy, with blue eyes, brown hair, and a six figure job. So, through specific criteria searches, she finds Mr. 6 ft tall, muscular, blue eyed brown haired six figure guy.

 

They agree to go on a date. After the date, neither of them contacts the other again.

 

Why? They just didn't feel it. There was no connection.

 

And that's how life works. You either have chemistry with someone, or you don't.

 

Guys are going to (long term) date women they feel a connection with, as will women. They will date men they have a connection with.

 

I've been on here close to two years now, and from what I've seen -- and in real life too -- the ones who usually have a happy relationship or who have a fruitful dating life are the ones who take the "go out there and see what happens" approach.

 

The ones who have a specific list of demands and "preferences" are chronically single and ranting on here about how bad the other sex is and how they can't find anyone good.

 

What does all of this mean? The people who date you are the ones who like you as a person. Fact. Who cares about anything else. They like you, and that's why they want to be with you.

Edited December 19, 2013 by MrCastle

[verhrzn]

What does all of this mean? The people who date you are the ones who like you as a person. Fact. Who cares about anything else. They like you, and that's why they want to be with you.

 

That's what I'd like to believe. But I've also had multiple guys date me when they didn't really like me. So that confuses me.

 

The scary thing is, if you put everything in dating down to "connection" and just "seeing what's there," you risk a LOT of time wasting and feeling powerless. Without some kind of standard or guideline, I could literally just go up to every single person in a bar and say "Hey wanna date?", wasting my time and theirs, since chances are we have nothing in common, and aren't even that interested.

 

Saying that a guy will date me based on "connection" is rather scary because it's not something I can control or change. I just sit there, waiting, hoping he will choose me. At least those broad standards offer something.

 

It's kind of like my latest FWB situation. The guy didn't like me enough to date me, but kept me hanging around because he didn't not like me enough to reject me. What an emotional mess, and what a waste of time! And going by what you say, that it's all down to "connection," there was literally nothing I could do.

 

I suppose it just goes back to the idea that you need to be okay with being single forever, because some people have bad luck and there's no guarantee or control in dating.

[xxoo]

Saying that a guy will date me based on "connection" is rather scary because it's not something I can control or change. I just sit there, waiting, hoping he will choose me. At least those broad standards offer something.

 

You are supposed to be choosing, too.

 

For instance, don't wait for the FWB guy to reject you. If he isn't meeting your needs regarding interest, dump him.

 

Once you start seeing someone, keep evaluating. Is this relationship meeting your needs? Do I choose this, as it is?

[verhrzn]

You are supposed to be choosing, too.

 

For instance, don't wait for the FWB guy to reject you. If he isn't meeting your needs regarding interest, dump him.

 

Once you start seeing someone, keep evaluating. Is this relationship meeting your needs? Do I choose this, as it is?

 

Oh sure, and that's exactly what I did, and don't regret it. On the other hand, certain friends are now giving me serious grief because I could have had a relationship with the FWB, had I pushed, prodded, and settled enough. This means that I am not allowed to complain about being single and having difficulties with dating, because I "threw" something away.

 

And as always, it is extremely galling to see people claim that women have such an advantage for online dating. I did online dating for three months and was rather proactive about it, and yet only netted: 3 dates with 1 guy, a guy who just wanted sex, and 1 guy who I had to practically drag onto a date (he messaged me for 3 weeks straight without ever asking me out.)

 

I dunno, maybe I'm not a real woman.

[somedude81]

And as always, it is extremely galling to see people claim that women have such an advantage for online dating. I did online dating for three months and was rather proactive about it, and yet only netted: 3 dates with 1 guy, a guy who just wanted sex, and 1 guy who I had to practically drag onto a date (he messaged me for 3 weeks straight without ever asking me out.)

 

I dunno, maybe I'm not a real woman.

This is why men continue to make that claim

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/447210-i-signed-up-old-tips

 

Just read Phoe's posts.

[verhrzn]

This is why men continue to make that claim

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/447210-i-signed-up-old-tips

 

Just read Phoe's posts.

 

Not a real woman, gotcha. Thanks for the confirmation Somedude!

[Lethe]

I don't think most men only have those two requirements. In fact, I'd characterize the second requirement as "being supportive" rather than "making you feel good." It encompasses more. Generally speaking though, if you aren't physically attractive (to him, anyway), pleasant to be around, emotionally supportive and trustworthy, and supportive of the guy's hobbies, work, aspirations, and so forth, no other quality you have will be able to make up for it.

 

I'm not around this place much, but I've popped in to read some threads every now and then wherein women complain about there not being any good men around. In these threads the women almost invariably start going down a list of qualities that they THINK should endear them to men, but which in reality make little or no difference when men look for a relationship. They think that the qualities they find attractive in men are the same qualities that men will find attractive in her. For example:

 

1. "I graduated from a top university." If you graduated from a top university, chances are the majority of the men you would even consider relationship material also have a fairly fancy education. In other words, in this respect, you're interchangeable to them.

 

2. "My friends think I'm a riot." It seems every woman nowadays is convinced that she has a lovely personality and a wicked sense of humor. In reality, she probably isn't everyone's cup of tea but is too narcissistic to see it. Most women aren't really funny or witty unless they're emulating male humor. Personally, I think Christopher Hitchens' view on women's ability to be funny is the correct one.

 

3. "I have a lot of varied and interesting hobbies." Let me guess, you do crossfit, run marathons, and do whatever every other yuppie jackass is doing in an attempt to appear "cultured," right? This might make you fit to be in a match.com commercial, but again, most men won't give a crap except to the extent that you could engage in a hobby together.

 

4. "I have a prestigious/high-paying/interesting job." Your ambition and work ethic are admirable, but a guy probably won't fall for you because of it.

 

5. "I have a nice car that I paid for by myself." Again, no one really cares.

 

Generally speaking, all of the above statements can be simplified to express what women find attractive in men, at least initially: social status, power, and money. Frankly, even if the articles OP refers to aren't sufficiently accurate, someone needs to start telling women that the things that impress them about men are not the things that men are impressed by.

[verhrzn]

Well, that's just the crux of it. I don't think men have many options at all. I don't understand the dynamics of it myself, but I'm lucky to have one women interested in me per year or two, and have gone as many as five without any interest or dates. I'd say that's pretty typical of my friends as well, some fare worse... and therefore, while my standards aren't as loose as the "big two" listed there, they're not far from it.

 

You'd think in a city of millions of people, an educated and gainfully employed male in his 30s would do at least okay, but again I have no single friends who've experienced that. I've heard it said that women have a far easier time meeting men than vice-versa, but the math doesn't work, especially if you pull gay men and the overwhelmingly male immigrant numbers out of the equation.

 

I dunno, my own experiences contradict that. An ex of mine always has a new girl, or an overlap of girls. Another friend got divorced, had several dates with several girls over a few months, and got a girlfriend inside of 6 months. Another friend had trouble getting a long-term girlfriend, but is also super picky, and had no problems getting laid.

 

I know people talk about how hard guys have it, but from my perspective, guys don't seem to be lacking options any more than girls do. It has less to do with gender, and much more to do with desirability. Hell, my exes always seem to have a new girl inside of 2-3 months of us breaking up, while I hadn't gone on a single date.

[Phoe]

Not a real woman, gotcha. Thanks for the confirmation Somedude!

 

What!!

 

 

In regards to the first post, I understand the whole "I'm no different from the billions of other nice normal cute women out there" mentality, the "I'm easily disposable" mindset where I felt like I was just lost in this massive pool of decent women, with nothing to really make me stand out as special to a man. The "he will be just as happy with the next toaster" worry that would sometimes eat away at my brain.

 

 

Even though I've thought this, I know it's wrong. Completely wrong. I do not ever want to think those kind of thoughts again. It's not good for me, and it's not good for you.

 

 

Now I've found a guy I really connect with, who does what he can every single day to show me he cares and that he appreciates me being in his life, and yet I STILL have the occasional moment where some toxic self-doubt starts creeping into the back of my head telling me I'm not special or good enough and that he will grow tired of me and my toast in time and will go find a new toaster.

 

 

I try to squash those thoughts as soon as I notice them. It is completely unfair to him and is a disservice to him, for all the kind things he does for me.

[somedude81]

Not a real woman, gotcha. Thanks for the confirmation Somedude!

 

What!!

I think what she meant is that she is not a real woman compared to you.

 

Verhrzn has tried online dating for a while and generally hasn't received the level of responses that women (for example you) normally tend to get. So that's why she said she's not a real woman.

[carhill]

Back when the OP first joined, she posted up some 'am I ugly' threads and included pictures and it was generally agreed that she was far from ugly. Here's the thread:

 

https://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/282714-how-know-if-you-re-ugly

 

Also, it appears she has an album still active which is viewable and has a picture of herself. Perhaps that could put the abundance mentality into some perspective.

[FitChick]

Those of us who have been on the forums for the past couple of years know this poster's "theme song" very well. I won't bother opening any of her other threads since I already know the music and lyrics by heart.

[Mrlonelyone]

Back when the OP first joined, she posted up some 'am I ugly' threads and included pictures and it was generally agreed that she was far from ugly. Here's the thread:

 

https://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/282714-how-know-if-you-re-ugly

 

Also, it appears she has an album still active which is viewable and has a picture of herself. Perhaps that could put the abundance mentality into some perspective.

 

Two words for you OP. black men. Black men, <s>and hispanic men</s> in particular, more ethnic white people to an extent, will love your body. Plus you're cute. I see that you may live in Great Britain. Look to the "Asian"*, Jamacian / West Indian, or Scottish men. Not every race worships women who are Kate Middleton/ Victoria Beckham thin. Plus many men are attracted to both thin and curvy women's bodies as long as they are within reason.

 

Oh yes. Come on. Verhzn... you are NOT UGLY or unattractive at all.

 

If you are having anxiety over weight please don't. Women who are thinner than you all wish they had your curves.

 

Every woman I know who looks like Verhzn has a boyfriend or dates and finds one within a year of breaking up. Often a black, hispanic, or ethnic white one.

 

In fact I think I'll save one of those pictures for ... latter. That's how much I mean that you don't need to worry about your looks.*

 

 

Those of us who have been on the forums for the past couple of years know this poster's "theme song" very well. I won't bother opening any of her other threads since I already know the music and lyrics by heart.

 

I'm sure we all do to an extent.

 

 

*Just kidding about saving a picture for latter. Really I am just kidding.

 

*(What we in America know as East Indian)

Edited December 21, 2013 by Mrlonelyone

[Mrlonelyone]

 

Be open minded, date around, never bang anyone until you're sure it's a real deal. I WISH I was getting dates as often as she could. I really am unattractive.

 

Look at it this way. You had your ex now those coming after you are getting her after you have exercised your right as a British Nobel. You know, you've exercised your right of Prima Nocte now the peasants can have their way with the wench.

 

You, on the other hand are looking for a worthy nobel woman who will add to your life and your lands and your family. Enough slumming. While the slum can be fun it's nowhere to live.

[verhrzn]

Those of us who have been on the forums for the past couple of years know this poster's "theme song" very well. I won't bother opening any of her other threads since I already know the music and lyrics by heart.

 

And yet, time and again, you have continued to wander into my threads, just to complain about them. It's almost as if you get off on acting superior and using me as a stepping stone to your own inflated self-esteem. Hmm.

[Hopeful714]

I was the toaster...and easily replaced.

 

Out of a very toxic/abusive RS here. 95% healed, but still haven't dated. Its been 1.5 yrs. I'm afraid to.

 

I agree with the OP. Many articles on dating explain to women to be "attractive" and "fun" and "make the guy feel good, admired" blah blah blah.

 

Sure, then the guy feels "wonderful" and keeps coming back for more.....that is until you express a "dislike" or God forbid a "need" then you get the "toaster" treatment. Heck, my ex used to tell me how he could have 1000 girls. I guess this was done to keep me in line.

 

I spent my whole dang life bettering myself, educating myself, keeping myself fit, attractive, sweet, happy.... etc. etc. etc. with the hopes that some guy would "appreciate my value" and find me "special" and where did it get me? Single and close to 50.

 

I think I'm done. I don't want to fix anyone's mental issues or be somebody's mommy or house/sex slave. I don't want to have to continually make a job of giving someone all this "attention" and "flattery" that it seems like so many men need from women to remain "happy". Until they get tired of banging her that is. I don't want to deal with catching them viewing porn, or going to OLD because I may be busy doing something for MYSELF for a change instead of holding up their ego on a continual basis or spending everyday worrying about looking and acting "hot" for them. I just want to be me.

 

Feeling a tad lonely today, I spent quite a few hours reading various posts in this forum. Its filled with heartbreak, and stories of lying cheats. Does it ever stop?

 

OP-be happy with yourself. If it happens for you it happens, if not....F it.

 

Yea,,,,a bit bitter here....but really, what ever happened to the MAN doing or courting a woman? Somewhere along the line this got lost. I don't think they even consider that anymore. Most likely because many women have lowered their standards to accept such hideous behavior from men and throw themselves and do all I mentioned above in utter desperation to keep them.

 

I don't mean to man bash here...but really, I'm tending to think decent, honest smart ones who are looking for "quality" over "quantity" are just a myth. Bummer.

[BOREDouttaMymind]

it takes finding the right guy in order for him to stay with you.

[John316C]

you could ask yourself the same question.

 

the reality is there will always be someone better than you.

[Phoe]

 

Yea,,,,a bit bitter here....but really, what ever happened to the MAN doing or courting a woman? Somewhere along the line this got lost. I don't think they even consider that anymore. Most likely because many women have lowered their standards to accept such hideous behavior from men and throw themselves and do all I mentioned above in utter desperation to keep them.

 

I don't mean to man bash here...but really, I'm tending to think decent, honest smart ones who are looking for "quality" over "quantity" are just a myth. Bummer.

 

It's not a myth! I'm a lucky girl who found a guy who truly enjoys courting me.

 

 

And even now that we are exclusive and having sex, he has not stopped courting me.

[Nistan]

The reason why guys keep it vague is because we don't psychoanalyze our dates.

you liking horse riding literally means that you like horse riding. it doesn't have any deeper meaning to us than that.

Women seem to believe that there are some sort of connection between doing and being. There are, sure. but it's not THAT big or important really. I have met inked extreme sportsmen that are the biggest cowards outside the skate park. Sensitive and emotional martial artists, etc etc.

we keep it that basic because we understand that we won't really get to know you on one or two dates, where we are trying to sell ourselves to eachother. Hakuna matata, basically.

[ThaWholigan]

• Does he find you attractive?
  
• Do you make him feel good?
  

 

That's just the bassline in the song. Everything else depends on the guy .

[Teraskas]

(Quote wasn't working properly, so I had to do this manually. Nor can I 'Unbold' my part. :/ )

 

Originally Posted by Hopeful714

Yea,,,,a bit bitter here....but really, what ever happened to the MAN doing or courting a woman? Somewhere along the line this got lost. I don't think they even consider that anymore. Most likely because many women have lowered their standards to accept such hideous behavior from men and throw themselves and do all I mentioned above in utter desperation to keep them.

 

I don't mean to man bash here...but really, I'm tending to think decent, honest smart ones who are looking for "quality" over "quantity" are just a myth. Bummer.

 

______________________________________________________

 

/Wave

As a matter of fact, they DO exist, and there's one typing this message right now.

However, judging from personal experience, it seems that women these days only want to be friends, and have fun with such types who are GENUINELY looking for something more.

It's ironic really, women show a complete lack of interest and initiative, yet complain that these kind of men do not exist, lols. ^^