Three questions - I am not assessing my situation well :(

[ladybug1984]

I need thoughts on how to truly discern controlling personalities from one that is an abuser 'in the works'. I posted once a while back about a few issues, but have some new developments as well.

 

 

I reconnected with a long-lost "TRUE LOVE" from high school, about 11 years later (13 years after we initially broke up), and found myself in a situation of wondering if we were destined to have found each other AGAIN. There is much more to the history of this reconnect, but let me just say that I have had some reservations about some of his behavior, even though I do not see him on a regular basis (long-distance between us).

 

He was terrible to me in HS, even though I loved him with every ounce of my being. I loved him, he was the first one I ever loved. He was violent only TWICE, and I honestly didn't know any better. It was my first relationship. Everything else - when I say 'terrible' - was just other behavior (yelling a lot, trying to pressure me into doing things I didn't want to do sexually, talking bad about me in front of his buddies, etc.). Fast forward to now - the first 5-6 months of communication he was WONDERFUL - compliments, sweet, there whenever I needed to talk, a total charmer. That started changing after about 6 months, though he never turned 'mean', abusive, or anything of the sort, he just cut off some of the compliments, sweetness, etc. This is ONE thing that I am not sure of is a 'red flag' as I know from reading posts that abusers can charm you initially, then really change. But can't normal people also do that?? How can one tell the difference?

 

I still see some of his other behaviors now (not necessarily TERRIBLE as he was back then) such as the wanting to be controlling (telling me how to wear my hair, what clothes I should wear, getting upset when I had to spend time at a work function instead of with him and POUTING the whole time we were together the next day), going through my purse, all of that kind of thing. There have been NO physical altercations unlike those teen years, so I'm grateful for that. He did comment recently several times about how he threw things at home when he was married to his former wife (second one) because she made him mad, so I know he still has a temper, even if he hasn't displayed it with me (Of course he claims that she was 'awful' and that with any 'normal' person he would not lose his temper). His first wife left him because of physical abuse (I know her from HS and she shared this with mutual friends), and his second wife had also called the police on him for similar things.

 

Even with all of the history with his two ex-wives, I want to believe him when he says I am the one person in this world who would NEVER bring out that side of him, simply because I was his first love and will be his only true love. Is that just the 'charmer' in him coming out and I'm buying into it?

 

Would love to know thoughts on:

 

1. The situation I described above about being a charmer for 5-6 months then reverting to something not mean or abusive, just nothing like what it was those first few months. Isn't this something a NORMAL person in a relationship might do after the excitement wears off?

 

2. All of the other things I described as controlling - isn't this something that a 'normal' person (a non-abuser) might also do? Comments on clothes/attire, having a bit of a temper, looking through someone's purse (his previous relationships may not have cared and he thinks 'no secrets'), being a little pouty if the person isn't spending time with you (I do that myself), and the other things I mentioned.

 

3. The prior history with two former wives - is this like the PROOF? I feel like that says so much, yet I don't want to believe it.

 

Can anyone share their thoughts?

[Elias33]

To the controlling type, charm is a tool. Remember that, look past it. If you still notice undesirable behavior, walk away while you still can. In a normal relationship all the aforementioned behaviors do not take place. Take that in consideration before you make your decision. Good luck.

[spiderowl]

He has prior history - has he ever had anger management training or any sort of therapy to learn from?

 

Some might try and persuade you to wear what they like, comment on hair and things like that. Yes, up to a point that is fairly normal. What isn't normal is if you feel pressured to do it, or it bothers you deep down.

 

Going through your purse is not normal. Why would a guy do that? Your purse is your private funding and none of his business. If you ask him to get something from your purse, then you can forgive him for having a quick peep perhaps, but that doesn't seem to be the situation.

 

Previous form is a big red flag. Tempers don't 'disappear'. People have to learn to manage them and some don't manage to do this.

 

Are you feeling uneasy about something?

[ladybug1984]

Thanks, friends. I honestly don't know what to think. My gut feel is that these red flags are truly red flags, but I want to think there is a small chance that my instincts are wrong. So when they are being charming, they aren't really sincere? ALL of those times with the compliments, doing nice things - there was no true emotion and good will behind it?? That makes me sad (

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I guess, Spiderowl, I am starting to feel discomfort. He has never had any therapy and would never consider it - he doesn't believe in that kind of thing (I would support it 100%!). Just the mood swings and getting so mad whenever I do something without him (which plays out in ignoring me and just being a pain to deal with for an extended time rather than anything violent), and not being able to answer questions about why he has cut off contact with all of his family over the years - and I do mean ALL. Doesn't speak to ANY of them. If it was just a few people, then maybe.......but ALL of them? Parents, siblings, cousins, his children............maybe that has nothing to do with all of this, I don't know. But yes, I am feeling uneasy.

[spiderowl]

Trust your instinct, it's telling you something.

 

People can be contradictory. I have learnt throughout the years that because someone says something nice or complementary to me, it doesn't mean he is nice. Because someone is attracted to me, it doesn't mean he is nice. Does it matter if someone is nice sometimes if they are really horrible and scary at other times? Can you trust that person to behave properly towards you, even under stress? Do you find you are having to be careful what you say and tread carefully around him? Do you feel relaxed and happy with him?

 

What is really bugging you deep down?

[LumberJack]

I don't know if this has anything to do with your situation, but it could be an interesting watch anyway. Just kinda shows how gradually things can go south when you completely disregard what your gut is telling you. You almost don't notice that your life is completely different than what it was before.

 

Leslie Morgan Steiner: Why domestic violence victims don't leave | Video on TED.com

 

I don't mean to put your man down. I don't know the guy, and it's not fair, but from what you're telling, I see some similarities:

 

* Makes you feel like you're the dominant one early in the relationship

* Has a hard time dealing with you spending time with other people

* Introduced the threat of violence - "I beat my wives 'cause they weren't normal" - which, to me, reads alot like "once you stop being normal I'm gonna beat you"

 

You're probably not Leslie, and he's not Connor, and I'm just a free-associating schmoe on the web handing out poor advice, but do watch the vid, and keep your mind open. Sometimes we think that this crazy head-over-heels stuff is what we want, and we let it blind us completely.

 

He has a history, refuses to seek therapy, or even to admit that he has a part in what happened (they weren't NORMAL!), severed contact with his entire family - red flags galore! IMHO YMMV etc

 

Good luck!

[alonefornow]

2. All of the other things I described as controlling - isn't this something that a 'normal' person (a non-abuser) might also do? Comments on clothes/attire, having a bit of a temper, looking through someone's purse (his previous relationships may not have cared and he thinks 'no secrets'), being a little pouty if the person isn't spending time with you (I do that myself), and the other things I mentioned.

 

3. The prior history with two former wives - is this like the PROOF? I feel like that says so much, yet I don't want to believe it.

 

Can anyone share their thoughts?

 

All of the things in 2, if they only happened once (except the purse thing, that's really weird) could maybe be kind of normal. Taken all together they're an enormous red flag. That you're so willing to make justifications for his poor behavior is also very disconcerting. What happened when you told him to knock this stuff off?

 

As for 3. Run. "Normal" people don't lose there temper and blame others for destructive, violent, and criminal behavior. That kind of ludicrous justification is a hallmark sign of an abuser.

[ladybug1984]

WOWWWW.............first of all, thank you ALL for your insight. Lumberjack, I watched that video. That woman said so many things that hit home for me. I am feeling like I totally fell into the 'charm' thing, and here I was just thinking it was HIM being HIM, and had NOTHING EVER entered my mind about ABUSE?!?! It honestly never was on my radar screen. Ever. Fast forward to a few months later, even though I never WAS abused, I see more and more of the things people have said on these boards and it was also in that video. I don't know why I didn't know better. I don't. I just NEVER in my wildest dreams would have connected any of that with ABUSE. Even though I knew he did that with two former wives. I know, STUPID OF ME, right?!? I think I was just like the lady in the video, though, thinking he wasn't an abuser, he just had issues to work out and that beneath it all he was just a good person and needed someone (ME) to help him, the only person that could understand him (ME). I feel so duped (

 

I think what really is hitting home for me is that 1. some of these things ALONE are not necessarily unusual, but it's the combination of so many, and 2. Prior history with two wives AND with me back in HS.

 

 

I guess I needed to hear it from someone else. TG I got out before I was a victim. And he started out soooo real, so charming, and we did have that history together from years ago. Wow, thank you, friends. I am really, really feeling like a first-class idiot for not seeing the writing on the wall. I don't hate him................I loved him and probably still do, but I can't put myself in that situation ((

[angel1987]

COMPREHENSIVE RATIONALIZATION OF YOUR STATUS AND WORDS

 

Honestly, you didn’t say any good thing about him. First, you were on a long distance relationship. You are not looking at a petty side of life like you and him are just trying it out. You are already looking forward towards the future. You are looking forward to making a life with someone you have not enough knowledge. Why are you on a long distance relationship? If he has been manipulative for years that may be one of his moves so that you would not be able to have a hold on his life and you would not be able to manipulate him. Are you sure that you are really his only love now? Could you not be a cover-up to what happened to him on his past 2 relationships? You could be a cover-up in such a way that people who knows you would think that he is not a problematic person since there is a person who can show love for him continuously despite having his terrible quirks.

 

Second, you said “He was terrible to me in HS, even though I loved him with every ounce of my being.” When you said “even though I loved him with every ounce of my being” he knows that and he already knew from then that he could totally manipulate you because you are giving too much to him. A real man without sort of personality disorder would love a woman who DO NOT NEED and CANNOT BE manipulated by anyone. When you have turned the tables and you can manipulate him already, possibly, there is a good future ahead of you. But if he will continue with his negative behaviour, better get out of that relationship. He is surely using you.

 

Third, you said “after about 6 months, though he never turned 'mean', abusive, or anything of the sort, he just cut off some of the compliments, sweetness, etc.” Does cutting you off some of his compliments and sweetness is still not a sort of meanness? Think, would you be posting such online if you do not think and feel that there is someone better than him where you will feel better and continuously secured?

 

Fourth, you said “. He did comment recently several times about how he threw things at home when he was married to his former wife (second one) because she made him mad, so I know he still has a temper, even if he hasn't displayed it with me (Of course he claims that she was 'awful' and that with any 'normal' person he would not lose his temper).” For example, you pushed your relationship forward and it did not worked together, do you think he’ll tell other people that it was his fault? Definitely, he’ll put all the blame on you. He had 2 ex wives and did he ever have guts to tell other people or you that he also made some faults other than reacting because of other people’s fault?

 

Fifth, you said “His first wife left him because of physical abuse (I know her from HS and she shared this with mutual friends), and his second wife had also called the police on him for similar things.” It’s his pattern already. Unless he undergoes psychological therapies and have anger management control therapies, you will not have a good life with him unless you keep on pretending in front of other people that you are happy with him because he is doing his very best to be a better person. Other than that, you’ll live a pretentious life. Worst, if he will be diagnosed with any psychological disorder and gets healed, as per psychological studies, a person who have been diagnosed with psychological disorder even if he is healed, he will still have higher risk of having another kind of psychological disorder than other people who have not been diagnosed. Don’t risk your life as another beautiful punching bag.

 

Lastly, you said “.. I want to believe him when he says I am the one person in this world who would NEVER bring out that side of him, simply because I was his first love and will be his only true love.” You said that you want to believe him but in reality, your unconscious knows that you should not believe in him. If you were his first love, then why did he have another lover after you? If it was real, he could have waited for you? Isn’t it that “true love” should be able to surpass anything? Not that I believe in love being able to surpass anything but that’s how it meant when you said “I am the one person in this world who would NEVER bring out that side of him”.

 

Best thing to do is to test him to have time with children, animals, and other people. If he hits them or make a negative comment about them or act negatively towards them, you will know that he will also be like that to you.

 

Still, the choice is yours. You may take the risk of being another punching bag or another blame catcher or you may free yourself from him, have a life of your own, find happiness with someone whom from the start you know will never hurt you and can appease, love and care for you for the rest of your lives. Because honestly, non-abusers does not do anything that your sort of “first love” does.

 

By the way, without thinking of him, make a list of what you think should a TRUE LOVE be. Don’t think of him while doing it or else you would be bias. Then make a list of what kind of treatment IN GENERAL should a WOMAN receive from a man. Compare those with your current relationship. If NOT, you are not on a beautiful progressive relationship. Instead, you are n a hurtful destructive relationship.

 

We should not wish you good luck, instead, you need prayers.

[imtooconfused]

ladybug1984, I usually warn people in potential abuse situations that if they are seeing 'yellow flags' before or early on in the relationship, those 'yellow flags' are certainly going to turn into 'red flags' as the relationship progresses. You already believe you are seeing red flags, so the only thing I can tell you is that the abuse will get worse from here until it becomes a 'black flag'. Please stay away, please. The love that you think you feel is not real. It's simply a false feeling that you get from believing in the fantasy of what you want him to be, which he will never come to be, no matter how hard you try to appease the abuse.

[ladybug1984]

ladybug1984, I usually warn people in potential abuse situations that if they are seeing 'yellow flags' before or early on in the relationship, those 'yellow flags' are certainly going to turn into 'red flags' as the relationship progresses. You already believe you are seeing red flags, so the only thing I can tell you is that the abuse will get worse from here until it becomes a 'black flag'. Please stay away, please. The love that you think you feel is not real. It's simply a false feeling that you get from believing in the fantasy of what you want him to be, which he will never come to be, no matter how hard you try to appease the abuse.

 

 

I love the yellow flag analogy! YES, yes, YES, I am seeing not only yellow, but probably RED and just didn't want to admit it. I can see if there was only ONE potential flag letting it go, but when I am seeing up to five or six yellow or red flags?? I'm finally able to think with my HEAD and not my heart. It has taken a long, long while. I'm scared of what will happen if he tries to contact me again - I am afraid I will cave and get sucked back in (( I do NOT want that to happen ((( If he were truly the way he was the first six months, YES, I could fall in love with that! FOR SURE, and I did! But if he truly is what he was six months and beyond, well................NO WAY NO HOW would I ever be happy long-term with that. Is that what you mean imtooconfused, about believing in the fantasy? Is the 'fantasy' the way he was during the first six months and is THAT why it is so real (because he actually WAS like that for a while) or did you mean something else???

 

Thanks to ALL who posted to me. I am still really struggling with this, but doing better. Also, Angel, I am making a list like you suggested. Seeing it on paper will help me, too. That sort of thing usual does in other situations, anyways

[imtooconfused]

Is that what you mean imtooconfused, about believing in the fantasy? Is the 'fantasy' the way he was during the first six months and is THAT why it is so real (because he actually WAS like that for a while) or did you mean something else???

 

That's exactly what I mean, only holding on to the image of him only when he was at his best and blocking all of the bad behavior. By ignoring bad behaviors, the image is no longer a reality and crosses into being merely a fantasy of who he is. And I would be willing to place a bet on the fact that you actually did see some of the bad behaviors begin to creep out during that first six months but only held onto the good image of your BF. It really is a natural reaction from our desire to 'make the relationship work'.

[ladybug1984]

That's exactly what I mean, only holding on to the image of him only when he was at his best and blocking all of the bad behavior. By ignoring bad behaviors, the image is no longer a reality and crosses into being merely a fantasy of who he is. And I would be willing to place a bet on the fact that you actually did see some of the bad behaviors begin to creep out during that first six months but only held onto the good image of your BF. It really is a natural reaction from our desire to 'make the relationship work'.

 

 

 

 

How could I have been SOOOOO clueless???? Seeing all of these posts and hearing people share experiences makes it all make sense now, but WHY wasn't in tune with this earlier???????????????? Could have saved myself sooo much heartache ((( Thanks, confused..............and I think you are right, some of those behaviors were probably there, I just chose to overlook them. I still find it sooo hard to believe that anybody can change so drastically in such a short period of time. It's almost like two different people ((

[imtooconfused]

I don't think you were entirely clueless... You came here looking for answers after all. And it took me close to 25 years to sort being in a controlling manipulative relationship.

[ladybug1984]

I don't think you were entirely clueless... You came here looking for answers after all. And it took me close to 25 years to sort being in a controlling manipulative relationship.

 

 

 

 

 

Wow - 25 years. I cannot imagine. I am grateful that this didn't go on over a year. OMG. 25 years. I truly cannot imagine.

[darkmoon]

yes, it is proof, okay, I'll say he might be nicer now, he might do anything though, I think you are squashing anything that is not romantic and wonderful and that on a certain level, your common sense is telling you that you are at risk

 

 

these bullies easily get meek when they have to brown-nose at work or deal with a bigger-built guy - but with a woman, he's been a bully already, maybe he liked the power

 

 

ask all about his violent past, not to hear the random revelatory confessions, but to see if he really regrets his power and ape-like past, then decide, listen then talk then decide

Edited January 1, 2014 by darkmoon

[ladybug1984]

yes, it is proof, okay, I'll say he might be nicer now, he might do anything though, I think you are squashing anything that is not romantic and wonderful and that on a certain level, your common sense is telling you that you are at risk

 

 

these bullies easily get meek when they have to brown-nose at work or deal with a bigger-built guy - but with a woman, he's been a bully already, maybe he liked the power

 

 

ask all about his violent past, not to hear the random revelatory confessions, but to see if he really regrets his power and ape-like past, then decide, listen then talk then decide

 

 

 

 

I'm afraid to ask anything now, as I am afraid if I make C I will get sucked back in. I am truly seeing things now for what they are.............but do wonder if he has any regrets. Perhaps something I will have an opportunity to ask when I get over the fear of actually talking with him again. I can see where they might not bully in some situations but do it in others.......doesn't make it right, but I see it.