12 Years, 3 young kids, and she's not in love with me anymore

[Steadfast]

One thing is certain: she's using sex and your feelings of obligation to keep you in limbo. IMO, living in the 'air of uncertainty' is no way to live. You have pieces of the marriage loosely holding things together. As of now, you're accepting this out of very specific fear, accepting her bread crumbs...and you wonder why your 'sex rank' is dropping? She's in control.

 

This is not real love. This is a temporary arrangement. Not finalized.

 

The alpha male stuff has merit, but not (IMO) the way you're applying it. Those men who allow the relationship to define them are those who trade their individuality and drive for security. Few women will find this attractive.

 

You have attraction and money hanging in the balance. Toss in children and the fear of them being (partially) raised by another man and it's no wonder why you're cautious. This is her control. She would not wish to control you if her love and devotion for you were stronger than the trappings that surround them. She's afraid...not of losing you, but of her social standing. Most specifically by her wealthy family, who would probably frown upon her actions. She worries your children will develop bitter feelings and probably doesn't like the idea of another woman (your new woman) being a part of their life. She's worried about a bad man trade.

 

Yes, a woman's friends hold considerable power. Women's relationships are far, far more different and complicated than friendships between men.

 

You will never resolve this until you defeat the fear that's holding you in place. She will never respect you until you demand nothing less than you're willing to give. It's that easy. You're in a bad marriage. Is that where you wish to stay? It really isn't any more complicated than that.

[oldshirt]

 

I'm inclined to work on the Married Man's Primer and increase my sex rank. Bring more alpha. For those familiar with that, there is NO DOUBT that my rank has decreased since we got married and hers has increased. A clear problem if you buy that theory.

 

 

101 votes YES on Married Man Sexlife!!!! Get the books, get on that website and tell your entire story there, then develop an Action Plan and get to work!! You can a lot of work to do but there may be a possibility this can be saved.

[oldshirt]

 

 

ogether for 20 years so when I press her for sincere honesty about whether she is cheating and she says no, I want to believe her. The spy stuff doesn't feel right.

 

She is not afraid to tell the truth in general and I am keenly aware that she is not afraid of dropping me so why would she still lie about it

 

 

There are a few laws of nature that are simply not broken. One of them is the law of gravity. There are a few laws of physics. And then the is the law that in the absence of chronic unemployment, adultry, abuse, addiction or abandonment on the parent of the husband, wives simply Don't leave the fathers of their children unless there is another man or unless they think they can upgrade and get a better one.

 

She will only come clean about it once she has the other one secured and ready to make the jump. Untill then she will lie to your face and will also lie to herself so that even she believes they are "just friends."

 

If OM is just a booty call and a sex thing she will go down lying to the bloody end unless you produce the smoking gun with fingerprints, DNA and ballistics.

 

She may be truthful about everything in the world but she will lie about this. You simply HAVE to do your due diligence and do your own thorough investigation. You have to know if she is with someone else, preparing to get with someone or at least wanting to get with someone else. And if there isn't, you need to confirm that too because a lot of how you procede depends on if there is someone else or not.

 

You simply cannot afford to take her word for it. There is too much at stake to rely on good faith assumptions.

[fmrmarine]

Hyde, have you posted a thread in 911 at MMSL? I can almost guarantee that when you answer the triage questions, the consensus will be there is another man involved. Athol has some great material and when I say your wife is textbook for an affair, his material is one of the textbooks.

 

None of us who have had our wives cheat on us wanted to believe it was true. Very similar to you, mine began her affair after 17 years of marriage. Do not put your head in the sand.

[oldshirt]

Hyde, have you posted a thread in 911 at MMSL? I can almost guarantee that when you answer the triage questions, the consensus will be there is another man involved. Athol has some great material and when I say your wife is textbook for an affair, his material is one of the textbooks.

 

.

 

Yes. This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Hyde12]

Well merry Xmas to me. I finally saw her phone passcode last night at a party and took a peak when she was in the shower. Sounds like she hasn't cheated yet but wants to. Mostly text messages to her girlfriends like:

 

"I kind of want things to work out with 'Hyde' but I kind of don't so I can jump on my hot ass trainer. "

 

And a reply from another friend that said something like

 

"About Hyde vs your trainer, I wouldn't do it. He's young and fun but that's all"

 

And another reference from her best friend about her "feelings for your trainer"

 

And a comment from her to a girlfriend that she was fighting the urge to text the trainer.

 

So then I looked at the text convo between her and the trainer. Nothing graphic but she sends him silly things like a Lego thing she just built with the kids. She says 'look what I just built' and he says 'cool! I used to love Legos.'

 

It sounds like he doesn't know she's interested in him yet.

 

So what's the best way to confront her?

[julzfromsa]

man Hyde im so sorry about this horrid situation you find yourself in. Your wife seems like she is going through GIGS!, that god awful thing some women go through.

 

Hyde, lets not think about her for a moment. I honestly think you should think about yourself. Do whatever you need to do to make yourself feel absolutely great. Go get some seriously nice clothes and hit the gym hard. Pick up a mens health, it helps allot. Look after all your interests now. Perhaps when she see's this drastic, more confident you it might shock the GIGS right out of her.

 

Its a great thing that she hasnt been with this guy, so there is hope. Should you confront this situation? I dont know, i know i would but then again my Fiance left me after 11 years. "She loves me but not inlove with me".

 

I hope things come right Dude! Seriously i know how you are feeling!

[carhill]

OP, at your income level and with what you noted about her 'family money', I'd suggest getting off this message board and get with a competent attorney and triage your current situation. You may not need the information, but it's good to know where you're at.

 

In Cali, your income is marital property and it's entirely possible that her 'family money' is separate property and untouchable by you. She could be an unemployed impoverished mother of three looking for spousal and child support, even though reality could be far from that scenario. It happens. Hope for the best and plan for the rest. Good luck.

[Hyde12]

Forgot to add the kicker. I got her several thoughtful gifts for Xmas. She knew that I was getting some things for her. Nothing extravagant or intimate.

 

She got nothing for me and then had the nerve to mention that she was surprised that I didn't get her a Bluetooth speaker to work with her phone. She figured that she had dropped enough hints about it. Are you kidding me?

[Mr. Lucky]

So then I looked at the text convo between her and the trainer. Nothing graphic but she sends him silly things like a Lego thing she just built with the kids. She says 'look what I just built' and he says 'cool! I used to love Legos.'

 

It sounds like he doesn't know she's interested in him yet.

 

So what's the best way to confront her?

In counseling if you want to stay married; in court if you don't...

 

Mr. Lucky

[oldshirt]

GOOD WORK!!! Now that you have identified something concrete you can take some definitive steps to do something about it.

 

The slightly encouraging news, this trainer likely gets flirted up by horny middle aged wives every day and twice on Sundays. He may be interested in banging her if he thinks he can get away with it but he's likely not actually emotionally invested in her at all. He'll be easy to chase off.

 

Bad news, if she's this open with multiple girl friends about this, she pretty darn disengaged from you and her marriage.

 

The real bad news, if she's this open with multiple girlfriends about it, this is likely not her first.

 

Anyway my recommended first step is to send this trainer scurrying like a cockroach. Contact him directly (in person is best). Don't make any criminal or physical threats but tell him she is you wife and you have no intentions of sitting by while he has his fun. Inform him that if he does not cease all contact with her that you will file a complaint with the gym, his employing agency as well as with the professional organization that certifies trainers on grounds of professional misconduct.

 

His job and professional certification are likely not in any real jeopardy but he may not know that and he won't be invested in her enough to risk it.

Then I also agree with confronting her in front of the counselor. Any counselor worth their weight in $hit will see her reaction that she is busted and won't let her sing and dance her way into gaslighting you and making you think you are the crazy one or the bad guy.

[Steadfast]

Anyway my recommended first step is to send this trainer scurrying like a cockroach. Contact him directly...

 

With all due respect to oldshirt, if I had a rocket to warn you against following this advice, I'd place a match under it. IMO, this is a bad move.

 

Again -I repeat- this advice has a strong chance of blowing up the budding sex crush your wife has developed and send Mr. Sexy Ass trainer running for the hills. Or they could just deny it all and bang each other for revenge. Who knows? The point: He isn't the problem. YOUR WIFE IS.

 

Exposure won't solve the root problem, unless your idea of a happy marriage is snooping her phone, tracking her movements via GPS, reading her computer log or wiring her up to a polygraph. "Just sit tight honey, this'll all be over in a few minutes...say, how does Chinese sound tonight?"

 

Giving what you know I'd take the opposite approach. "Babe, I snooped your password and read the texts you wrote about your trainer. Sorry to invade your privacy but I had to know if you're hot for another guy, and now I do. I'll be gone in the morning. You'll be hearing from my attorney regarding the settlement and visitation schedule. Contact me through them. Best of luck with him, or whoever you decide to be with. Goodbye."

 

Straight up. No more talk. Or, as your friends over at MMSL say; "STFU".

 

If she comes running back and promises to devote herself to the relationship, you can decide to proceed with caution. Or not. If she does this and backs her worthless words with action, you're allowed to be encouraged. If she doesn't, she wouldn't have anyway. You'll know then.

 

Otherwise, keep living in limbo with loser tactics like measuring your alpha score, tracking, pleading or drumming up ways to scare her back to you.

 

I've said my piece. To quote Jim Carey; "Man I'm tired of being right."

 

You can reach me by PM if you need more help or support Hyde. Happy to help. You are in a good position no matter what she decides. Be strong.

 

*Edit*

 

I only advise leaving based on what you've written about house ownership. Wait until a temporary visitation schedule is filed with the court. Talk to your attorney about procedure details.

 

I have not forgotten what you wrote about your guilt playing a part in this. You must know that she is using that as justification for stepping out. No divorce is ever one-sided, but that doesn't mean it's even. Own only what you're responsible for.

 

I know it hurts and I know you love her. IMO, the above action puts you in the best possible position for both reconciliation and healing after divorce. Please know I understand the pain. Be strong.

Edited December 27, 2013 by Steadfast

[oldshirt]

in the vast majority of cases the simplest explanation is the right answer. Mrs Hyde is likely one of dozens of frustrated, lonely, middle aged wives that this trainer could bang at the drop of hat. The odds greatly favor that if he even suspects that getting involved with her will cause him some inconveniences let alone some actual ramifications and he'll drop her like red hot turd.

 

 

The idea of them having some sort of revenge affair is a conspiracy theory. Sure, it 'could' happen. but it's more complex and the odds are so against it.

 

 

All it will probably take is a no-nonsense, "do not have any more contact with my wife." and she'll never hear from him again.

 

 

I agree that Mr Trainer is not the root cause of the problem, but he is a impediment to process and should be eliminated at the earliest possible time. The reason this is an important part of puzzle is if she has some young stallion nuzzling up against her and responding to her, she is going to be a lot more emboldened and waaay less likely to give Hyde any consideration and any respect whatsoever regardless if they try to reconcile or divorce.

 

 

He is a distraction, thorn in the side and potential source of complication. Swat him away like horse swatting a fly with it's tail and be done with him.

[Hyde12]

I told her that the phone secrecy bothered me a lot. She said she wasn't hiding anything so I told her to put in the code and let me look at her phone. She did. I messed around for a minute and let her see that I didn't know what I was looking for and then I went to one of the girlfriend convos where she said something about only partially wanting it to work out with me so she could jump on her trainer. As soon as she saw the convo I was looking at, she grabbed the phone and said "don't look at my private conversations with my girlfriends." She said she needs those talks so she can vent and process her feelings.

 

I told her that I already saw that message about the trainer and she said it was just fantasy. I gave her several opportunities to come clean but she still insisted that there was no emotional connection going on. It was really shocking and sad that she could lie to me like that.

 

Then she started to get a little softer and told me that she was warming up to the idea of trying "us" again. It sounded good and she kept coming over to hug me and call me "honey" which she hasn't done in a long time.

 

So far this was all yesterday (Xmas day)

 

I woke up at 3am and couldn't get back to sleep. The Xmas present thing, the texts that I saw that conflict with her story, and her ability to sleep like a baby with a seemingly clear conscience were racing around in my brain. I felt like I should follow the advice of some of the contributors on this site (by the way I should thank everyone that has posted opinions. All are valuable) and just file. I spent a few hours reviewing California family law while waiting for the kids to get up.

 

This morning we were supposed to meet another family at the beach but I told her I needed to meet her there so I could 'run an errand' first. She asked a lot of questions and texted me and called several times while she was waiting for me to get to the beach. When I got there we had another little talk and I gave her the opportunity to come clean. She made some progress saying that there a lot of things in those convos that I wouldn't want to see like she's been closing her eyes and pretending it was another man while we were having sex for years. I said it before but since we got married, I let myself go. I've lost 40 lbs so far and still have another 30 to go. I can't blame her for not being sexually attracted to me.

 

Anyway, she kept up with "I want to jump back in with both feet and see what happens." I said there was no way until she stopped working out with the trainer and got a female one. She was reluctant but I told her it was an absolute and she agreed. I saw later on her iPad that she was searching for other gyms in the area so maybe she means it.

 

We had a babysitter already planned for tonight so we could go out. She called me into the bathroom while she was supposed to be showering , dropped her towel, invited me to touch and said she likes teasing and she'll follow through later. Frustrating but a little fun. She commented that I would have gotten mad at her before if she had done that and not done something to get me off. I played along but it did not feel right. She never teased me like that before so how did she she know that she likes teasing?

 

She suggested Anchorman 2 because "we could both probably use a good laugh". We saw the film and had dinner at a nice restaurant after with a lot of first date kind of talk. Top 5 movies, songs, and books, etc. She mentioned that her trainer told her that he hadn't read a book since 5th grade so there was "no way" that she should run away with him.

 

Got home and paid the baby sitter. Then sat for a while while we watched some tv and she ate desert that she was looking forward to since the restaurant. Then sat some more while I patiently waited for any sign that she was ready.

 

Aw ****, as I'm writing this I can see how much I did wrong. Eventually we got into bed and she seemed to be having a good time but when she couldn't come she said "it feels great to have you inside me but that other stimulation is not there". No orgasm for her which is unusual but not unheard of.

 

Most of the sexual excitement for her comes from her pride in her own body it seems.

 

It would be easier to just file and move on but I'm worried about how the kids will react or worse, internalize it. I'm sure there will be replies that I'm being a pussy. I just don't want to make any final moves until I'm sure.

 

I'm meeting an old friend for dinner tomorrow who just happens to be a family

law attorney. I will ask for advice on next steps.

 

If it was just her, I'd kick her to the curb but I can't seem to commit to that because of the kids.

[Steadfast]

It would be easier to just file and move on but I'm worried about how the kids will react or worse, internalize it. I'm sure there will be replies that I'm being a pussy. I just don't want to make any final moves until I'm sure.

 

She's playing you like a violin and you're worried about negative replies on a silly forum? You are fooling yourself Hyde. The 'easier' thing is the thing you're doing. Cruising along in neutral, making excuses. At least you know now she's worried about losing your financial support. See how quickly she moved in when she feared you might leave? She's not ready.

 

Everything is suspect when you're being worked. Even sensible advice. I do understand the hesitation and fear. I know the emotional pull well. I lived it. The good news is you seem to sense this, deep down. Be strong.

[oldshirt]

I encourage continued fact-finding and diagnostics on the marriage to see where things are at and where each of your heart and minds are,, but if nothing else turns up, I don't see a kick-to-the-curbable offense here.

 

You have both checked out of the relationship. You have both let yourselves go. She got back into shape and her sex-rank is higher so she is sniffing out some other options.

 

That can be recoverable. If you check-out you can check back in. You can hit the gym and drop the rest of the weight. You can work out and eat right together. Start doing regular date nights and have more first-date conversations and get reacquainted and reconnected. GET PROFESSIONAL COUNSELING etc etc

 

You are not a pussy for not jumping to any rash decisions or making any impulsive moves. That is being wise and responsible.

 

The lawyers will always be willing to take your money so you can file at any time. If new information turns up that indicates she is/has cheated or that she is plotting to screw you out of the house/money/kids etc then you can do what you gotta do.

 

Untill that info turns up though (and I do urge actively investigating) you will always wonder if you bailed to soon if you walk out now. And she sure as $hit will forever accuse you of bailing for no just cause if you don't actually catch her with her hand in the cookie jar.

 

With the info available now, I think you stand a chance at reconciliation. It will take work but divorce and moving on will take work too.

Edited December 27, 2013 by oldshirt

[revitup]

Hyde,

 

I could be wrong but it looks as though she is actually trying to reconnect even if it's awkward at the moment.The shower and bed and rapid actions to get away from the trainer are encouraging.

 

Your situation may be the exception to the rule and make the turn around to a really strong marriage.Tread lightly before you "lawyer up".

 

Also it doesn't appear her friends are acting as accomplices.This is a blessing.

 

Really looks like your standing tall about the trainer and standing your ground was a really good thing.

 

Progress is progress.......

 

REVITUP

Edited December 27, 2013 by revitup
cause

[notbroken]

This may be hard, but 'been there done that' makes this very familiar.

 

Your wife is on her way to becoming a wayward spouse and is having a mini midlife crisis. Of course she will deny that. She is not entirely happy in life and is blaming you for everything. You are accepting alot of that blame (not all of it is your fault). Stop that.

 

She is going to the gym so she can look 'hot' when / if she starts dating again. She is curious about her trainer and other guys. That will increase as she continues to justify things by blaming you for everything and thinking the grass is greener on the other side. While she may not already have had an affair, she is definitely thinking about it and may very soon.

 

Honestly, there isn't much you can do right at this time in her eyes.

 

Go to the gym with her. Run with her. Do NOT accept blame for stuff you didn't do. Her unhappiness is NOT on you - that is coming from within.

 

I'd strongly recommend the following (wish I would have done them):

 

If she doesn't already have a job, she should get one. LOTS of reasons for this one.

 

Stop blaming yourself. Definitely don't accept blame verbally for her unhappiness or things beyond your control.

 

Work on yourself - both physically and mentally.

 

Tell her you love her, want to remain married and faithful, but are disappointed she is considering going outside the marriage. Tell her you won't accept that or be a wallflower. Tell her you will do everything in your power to have a good marriage and hope she does the same.

 

Do your part around the house.

 

Go on 'dates' with your wife often.

 

Be open and honest if you become suspicious she is cheating. Trust but verify.

[Hyde12]

I don't plan to file right away but we'll see what my friend suggests tonight. She knows that I'm going to grab a beer with him tonight and knows his profession is family law. Maybe a good opportunity for a subtle bluff but not one that I want called yet.

 

I am simultaneously working on NMMNG and MSSL Primer. As I've surely made clear in this thread, I struggle with self-confidence and her obvious lack of physical attraction to me makes that even worse. I'm still acting submissive most of the time. I'm working out at home with weights, running, dieting and the pounds are coming off pretty fast. I don't want to go back to the gym and work with my trainer - I can't stand the thought that some or all of the 'regulars' and other trainers knew about what was going on behind my back.

 

One major thing that is hindering progress is my flip-flopping. One day I tell her that I want to work on the marriage. I pushed pretty hard for that and she agreed. The next day, I try to be more alpha and less needy. She gets confused and refers to my position the day before that we had to try everything to repair if it is possible if only for the kids. I'm sure the flip-flopping is making her feel even less interested in working on us. A strong, confident man who knows what he wants and takes responsibility for getting his own needs met is NOT what I have been showing her. Setting the tone and leading is NOT what I have been doing. I constantly catch myself deferring to her on decisions. Even silly ones like the waiter asking us if we want the salads before the appetizers, I look to her.

 

I know I should slow down and work on myself but I feel an URGENT need to fix this. I don't think about anything else. Every day that things stay up in the air like this is another day that she could be moving further away or cheating.

[oldshirt]

 

 

I don't want to go back to the gym and work with my trainer - I can't stand the thought that some or all of the 'regulars' and other trainers knew about what was going on behind my back.

 

 

Go to another gym if you have to but keep working out like its the cure for world hunger.

 

Also as just a side note, there is a very real chance that the only thing going on between your wife and this trainer was visions of sugar plums dancing in her head. Trainers get hit on every single day by frustrated middle aged housewives. It's just another day at the office for them when some gal gives them the nudge nudge wink wink. Unless she outright propositioned him or made him an actual offer, even he may not have known any more was going on besides just another horny married broad shaking her booty at him for a little attention.

 

The other ones may not know a thing.

 

Don't let any of that stop you from getting fit.

Edited December 27, 2013 by oldshirt

[oldshirt]

I don't plan to file right away but we'll see what my friend suggests tonight. She knows that I'm going to grab a beer with him tonight and knows his profession is family law. Maybe a good opportunity for a subtle bluff but not one that I want called yet.

 

 

Never bluff!!!!! No games, no manipulations. Say what you mean and mean what you say. If you try to bluff and she calls it, she has just exchanged the snake and you are screwed.

 

Take the position of either being all in or all out. You are either putting 100% into staying together or 100% into divorcing and moving on.

 

Right now you want to stay together and there's no smoking gun (yet) that indicates you should divorce so give it your all.

 

If you find out tomorrow she is staring in circus midget porn and you want to call it quits go 100% out.

[Eggplant]

Hyde12, do you love your wife?

[beach]

Your wife isn't into you.

 

She's laying out her thought out plans.

 

Has she fired the trainer? Have you shown up at her running group?

 

A key logger might give you info she's never going to admit. If she hasn't cheated yet - she's got her plan and intends to.

 

Intent is everything.

 

Kick her out - with absolutely no way to access any money or credit cards. She can find out what you provide for her - and how to live while trying to provide for herself. She wants to cheat? Let it be on HER dime!

[Eau Claire]

Simple. You have children.

 

Sit down with her and ask her what she wants. Express every feeling you have.

 

If she wants it to work...fine. If not, so be it. Everyone can get on with life.

 

Otherwise nothing is resolved. You feel like crap. Suck it up and think of your children.

[Hyde12]

We have sat down and I have asked her what she wants. She doesn't know. She doesn't know if she can ever find that spark / passion with me again but she does know that she wants the spark. She knows she doesn't want to break up the family and hurt the kids but she does know that she deserves to have a happy, joyful, fun life. She keeps saying she needs time because she doesn't know what she wants. She keeps saying how difficult and painful this limbo is for her. She is in individual therapy and they are working on codependency issues that have haunted us since day 1 and trying to heal the pain from the past. She said a few times that she wants it to work out but doesn't know how and doesn't even know what our relationship would look like if we did find a way back.