12 Years, 3 young kids, and she's not in love with me anymore

[beach]

We have sat down and I have asked her what she wants. She doesn't know. She doesn't know if she can ever find that spark / passion with me again but she does know that she wants the spark. She knows she doesn't want to break up the family and hurt the kids but she does know that she deserves to have a happy, joyful, fun life. She keeps saying she needs time because she doesn't know what she wants. She keeps saying how difficult and painful this limbo is for her. She is in individual therapy and they are working on codependency issues that have haunted us since day 1 and trying to heal the pain from the past. She said a few times that she wants it to work out but doesn't know how and doesn't even know what our relationship would look like if we did find a way back.

 

This is really what a spouse says when they want to try out a new relationship but really want to keep their security in place.

 

 

She wants to try on the new man for size? Make her move. Make her pay for it herself. Don't pay her to cheat on you.

 

She's not going to be honest. But she will use you for your money so she can cheat.

[oldshirt]

We have sat down and I have asked her what she wants. She doesn't know. She doesn't know if she can ever find that spark / passion with me again but she does know that she wants the spark. She knows she doesn't want to break up the family and hurt the kids but she does know that she deserves to have a happy, joyful, fun life. She keeps saying she needs time because she doesn't know what she wants. She keeps saying how difficult and painful this limbo is for her. She is in individual therapy and they are working on codependency issues that have haunted us since day 1 and trying to heal the pain from the past. She said a few times that she wants it to work out but doesn't know how and doesn't even know what our relationship would look like if we did find a way back.

 

 

 

I know this is going to sound sexist and chauvinistic in today's world, but you are going to have to lead her to the spark. she's not going to be able to spontaneously generate it herself.

 

 

That's what the whole MAP is about. You lead her to the spark. If she follows you and you get there together, great.

 

 

If she doesn't, you leave her behind.

 

 

This is all just a test to test your leadership and if you have the giblets or not. If you take it by the horns and lead the marriage and family out of the woods you pass. If you sit around wringing your hands and asking her what she wants and what you should do etc , you fail.

[revitup]

This is really what a spouse says when they want to try out a new relationship but really want to keep their security in place.

 

 

She wants to try on the new man for size? Make her move. Make her pay for it herself. Don't pay her to cheat on you.

 

She's not going to be honest. But she will use you for your money so she can cheat.

 

 

Beach is exactly right.

 

Rev

[Hyde12]

I hacked into her phone and found out that she had cheated once and had very actively chased the guy after that but he broke it off. It was the trainer. 24 years old and still lives with his mom. They hooked up in his garage while his mom was in the next room and he broke it off with her despite her pathetic attempts to continue the affair.

 

My initial reaction was to open my own bank accounts, hire a lawyer, lease an apartment, and liquidate a few small investments to get some cash reserves. So far, she didn't know that I knew about the affair.

 

I did all of this and then had a moment of clarity. I thought about it for a while and realized that I had a role in this. I started working on what I wanted to say to her in the interest of long term health of myself and the kids. Maybe just a fear of this huge change but I read her the following message:

 

"There is a difference between privacy and secrecy. There are ways to set healthy privacy boundaries in a marriage when there is proper trust but there is no place for secrecy. As i became more and more certain that you crossed the line into secrecy, i took measures to understand what was going on. What i found was disappointing but at least now i know. I wish i could erase some of the details of what i found out from my mind.

 

I know that you have been with 'douche bag trainer'. I have known for almost two weeks and i started making preparations as soon as i confirmed it. I put a deposit on an apartment. Opened my own bank accounts and liquidated some of my investments to retain a lawyer and file for divorce with every intention of making it difficult for you.

 

Then I took another very hard look at the situation and came to a few critical conclusions. First, I passionately hate to admit this but I know why you did it. When I force myself to be brutally honest with myself I see it clearly. I was a huge factor and there are others factors too but the bottom line is that I set myself up for this by not allowing intimacy or deep connection in our marriage. If I had taken care of myself emotionally and physically I could have met your needs and you would not have been as vulnerable to those other factors. We could have grown together as a couple and as individuals which would have meant building our connection instead of gradually growing apart through negative feedback loops. I want this but I’m not getting it so I won’t give him/her what he/she wants is a vicious cycle.

 

Now, we are in a place where i asked you several times if you were being or had been unfaithful and you looked me in the eye and lied. I even asked you after i already knew the truth so as you were telling me, I knew you were lying. That is the most difficult thing for me to handle. I never would have thought you were capable of that and it told me right away that I didn’t truly know this person I was talking to.

 

I know that you feel like you’ve been trying for years and you wasted too much time on me. I know that you aren’t sure if we can repair or even if you want to bother trying but I have seen that you still value the family and that you are at least willing to consider it.

 

If we are going to try, we cannot move forward in the same gym. I can’t go there out of embarrassment that my wife cheated with a 24 year old who still lives with his mom. I am certain that all the other trainers know and that is likely how the head trainer knew your name. Trainers, tennis instructors, etc **** their married clients all the time – spending that time together while endorphins and dopamine are rushing, being fit and aware of each other’s bodies, and being in a marriage that is not emotionally and/or physically fulfilling - it is no mystery why it happens.

 

I need to hit the gym hard but not 'name of gym' and I am not comfortable with you going there either.

 

I sabotaged our marriage for years by being emotionally unavailable, not meeting your needs, and not taking care of myself. I feel like I was partially asleep for those years and I am so sorry that you suffered through that for so long. Really and truly sorry.

 

I think we are on a better path now exploring our options and feelings. Maybe it will lead us to a better place or maybe not. Either way, we’re doing the right thing by not giving up until we’re sure so we don't needlessly hurt the boys. We can keep going down that path but I need honesty from you. You have trouble trusting that the changes I am making will be permanent and I don’t know how I can trust that you are telling me the truth after the affair and all the lies. If these explorations do not lead to a better place we can split. If these changes do lead to a better place then we can keep the family together in a completely different paradigm that includes close emotional involvement and presence from my side as well as physical fitness which will hopefully result in a satisfying sex life for both of us.

 

The man I am becoming is very different from the man that I was and the man that I am. I am probably never going to be the guy that is always the life of the party and I am never going to be tall but I will be an engaged and available leader of this family. I will take responsibility for getting my needs met without manipulation or passive aggression and I will be emotionally strong and stable. I’ll recapture some of the healthy things I enjoyed but gave up on like playing music and martial arts. It is also very important that have close friendships with other men.

 

I feel strongly that we should look into the counselor that was referred to me. Her reputation is very good and I think we will need some guidance while we try to figure out if we should stay together or not. No matter what, we will not go back to the life that we had before November.

 

You experienced extreme spark and excitement from the affair - a massive dopamine rush. Now, it seems impossible to fathom that feeling with me. I get it. But that extreme spark is always temporary and even potentially dangerous because it can actually develop into a repeating behavior pattern - like an addiction to that excitement and pleasure.

 

Regardless of what happens now, I am going to intensify my work on myself and get physically, mentally, and emotionally healthier."

 

 

Then we talked for a few hours but most of it was about what divorce would look like. I told her I wouldn't go after her family money because I had no interest in hurting her and I wouldn't put up a big fight in court because I didn't want her to stay in the marriage for the wrong reasons.

 

Something tells me I just made a ton of mistakes by being compliant and accepting too much of the blame... That wasn't very alpha of me...

[beach]

She cheated! That blame isn't on you!

 

Your needs weren't being met - was your solution to cheat? No!

 

Stop being her doormat.

 

She's stomped all over your M and you should be angry. But you take the blame and a soft, very soft approach so she has no consequences. Guess what, if you stay married I bet $100 she cheats again - because you're so easy when she cheats.

 

She's suffered nothing from trashing your marriage and that's no way for her to get motivated to fix herself!

 

The blame should be on her! Stop being her doormat man!

[aliveagain]

Your wife is chasing him, she intentionally went after him, she banged him in his garage. It has nothing to do with anything you did in your marriage. She planned this, wake up.

[oldshirt]

 

My initial reaction was to open my own bank accounts, hire a lawyer, lease an apartment, and liquidate a few small investments to get some cash reserves. So far, she didn't know that I knew about the affair..

 

 

 

Our initial instincts are often the correct answer.

 

 

Don't give her the letter. That is all whiney dribble where you are taking the blame and blessing her affair and rewarding her for sucking some other guy's d!ck.

 

 

- continue with your plans to open your own accounts, get a lawyer first thing Monday morning,

 

 

- when the bomb drops, she should be the one moving out and getting an apt. She is the one that cheated.

 

 

- you bare some responsibility for the state of your relationship. She bares 100% responsibility for schmoozing some 24 year old and dropping her pants and spreading her legs. You seriously, seriously seriously need to stop blaming yourself for her affair and stop accepting it because you weren't a perfect husband. She fouled here, she needs to be the one that's ejected from the game.

 

 

- she has been getting her poontang elsewhere but living off of you. She tells you she's not in love with you anymore, she actively chases a young stud for poon but she wants you to foot her bills and provide her a nice roof over her head. That has to stop immediately!! if she doesn't love and desire you and actively cheats on you, her gravy train gets cut off and she finds an apt, gets a job and takes care of herself. If she wants the single life, she can have the single life. stop being her sugar daddy that puts food on her table while she bangs other dudes. Would you want your son providing for and supporting a woman that tells him to his face she isn't in love with him then bangs other dudes and lies about it to him so he will continue to house and provide for her?????

 

 

-stop telling her and promising her about the man you are going to become. She's heard it all before and doesn't believe you. it's all just words to her. don't tell her that any more. File for divorce, have her leave the marital home and then actually BECOME that man while she is gone.

 

 

Once you become that man, you may decide you don't want her afterall. You may actually find a younger, prettier woman.

 

 

And while I don't recommend divorcing as a way to reconcile with someone, if she is out of the house fending for herself, she is going to quickly realize that what took place here is the reality for her. Young studs will fu(k her but they'll have their fun a couple times then will send her packing. It will take a few more times of this before she realizes the pattern.

 

 

By the time the thrill of single life and her affair fog has lifted, you may be that better man by then and she may come to her senses and realize it. It may be a year or two down the road but you may be able to start dating and rekindle again. it's a 1000 to one shot but it's something you don't have now.

 

 

She's not going to believe your assurances that you are 'going' to change. You have to actually do it.

 

 

Your letter may have been good catharsis and therapy for you to write. Now burn it and start looking for a lawyer. The time for self-blame and pity are over. It's time to start playing hardball.

[oldshirt]

Ooops, I misread. I thought that you hadn't given her the letter. I see now that you did read it to her.

 

 

Big fu(k up but it's water under the bridge now.

 

 

Realize she is just going to assume it is more of your assurances. she is going to try to continue to stay in the house while she looks for your replacement. don't do that.

 

 

She needs to feel some real world repercussions from her actions. she is taking comfort in knowing that you will coddle her and accept her actions and that you are blaming yourself for her cheating so she doesn't feel accountable for her own actions. she feels justified and that what she did was ok. she feels that way because you are taking the blame for it and letting her stay.

 

 

If you don't take affirmative action here, you will become a cuckhold for the rest of your life and she will continue to bang young studs and get her jollys doing that, while at the same time living in your house and off your dime.

 

 

And since you have set yourself up as the spineless caretaker, she still won't have any attraction or desire for you. you will be her caretaker and the kids babysitter while she gets all her sexual excitement and sexual needs met at the gym or at the bar.

 

 

You simply HAVE to grow some balls and drop the ax on all of this.

 

 

Get her out of the house and off of your dime.

 

 

Then work on yourself and become the man YOU want to be. Once that has occurred there is a slight chance she may like that man. But even if she doesn't SOMEONE ELSE WILL. and that someone else may be younger and prettier and have more in common with you than her.

[oldshirt]

Any updates?

[Hyde12]

Crap. I can't believe I posted that. I don't remember doing it. It was a rough talk and I grabbed a bottle of Jameson and tried to go numb when it was over.

 

I know I messed up. I prepared a scathing '**** you' letter first and then thought about the kids and wimped out. I tried to step away the next day and she kept pressing for convo. I just listened to her and some of the tension eased.

 

I don't think it makes sense to kick her out and my lawyer doesn't see any consequences if I move out as long as I don't move out of the school district. I work 8 to 7ish every weekday so how could I take care of the kids? I don't want to hurt them.

 

She wants to see if we miss each other when we have time to think and work on ourselves. She also suggested that we go away for a weekend together to see if we can reignite. When we were at church on Sunday, she saw there is a workshop coming up for couples to rediscover the passion in their marriage and she signed us up as soon as we got home.

 

Guys, I know what you're telling me and I wish I could follow your advice. It just doesn't make sense logistically and isn't in the best interest of the kids. Also, wouldn't kicking her out make it more likely that she would act out more while I sit home and struggle with trying to find a nanny so I can work? If I move out she keeps hinting that she will be jealous that i will get to live the bachelor life and she will stuck at home. Isn't that a better way to build mystery? How could I work on myself if I have to work full time and take care of 3 little kids?

 

Another important point is that she has PLENTY of money of her own. She could live comfortably with the kids for the rest of her life without working a single day and without me paying one cent and she knows that very well. She's not staying with me for the money. She's worth WAY more than me. All 3 kids college is already paid for and she makes enough just in interest and dividends to support a very comfortable lifestyle for all four of them.

 

The plan is I get an apartment in the same school district and I pay only my own rent and bills. I put the deposit down this morning. She pays the mortgage, kids activity stuff, both of our car loans, bills from the house, etc. and pays down some of our credit cards. We're going to split the expenses of furnishing the apartment. I also joined a new gym and I have personal trainer appointments tomorrow and Thursday.

 

She's still at the same gym for now because she has $1500 in training sessions banked but she is with a diff't trainer. He's married and trains some of her friends. His schedule is not as convenient for her as the OM but she's doing it. I contacted the gym's corporate office to see if that kind of behavior from the other trainer could result in any disciplinary action.

 

We're going to see a marriage counselor on Jan 14. It's funny, as soon as we came up with this plan, she started questioning if it was the right thing to do. Asking if maybe we should try to work on it in counseling without separation. By that time, I had already seen the apartment and I like the idea of the separation and the freedom to work on growing a spine and some balls as well as time to decide if I even want this to work or not.

 

One minute I want to puke just thinking about her and the next minute I'm terrified of losing her and hurting the kids. She's on the same yo-yo. Neither of us know what we want right now so I think the time apart and the counseling could help. Even if it just helps one of us decide that we are not willing to try anymore, at least we can move on.

 

Ugh, I can't wait to read the replies to this one. You asked for an update...

[beach]

Oh man, you have no leverage in the R.

 

She seems to know she gets to do whatever she wants with no severe consequences.

 

I hope this works out for you, I really do.

 

 

Do you think moving is going to make you two feel closer/more connected?

 

Is she still communicating with her OM?

[Hyde12]

She's not communicating with the trainer but that was his choice. She wanted to continue it and he just wanted one time with her. I saw some pretty awful texts from her like:

 

To him: "No problem. I know I'm complicated right now was really asking about after I'm done being complicated"

 

To her friend: "I feel like I need to be stupid and satisfy a stupidity need first before I can regroup on what I want and no I haven't been stupid enough yet:)"

 

That one was after she banged him in his garage while his mom with in the next room... That was the only time they hooked up but that's enough for me.

 

To her friend: Sure! My buddy is scared of my marriage:(. Prob a good thing!"

 

Anyway, his last text to her was 'I just don't think it's right" and she followed that with:

 

"Want to apologize bc think I've been pushy about talking/txtg w u. Heard u say u didn't want to bc of getting caught but not listened totally bc it's not what I wanted. I haven't cared about getting caught myself need to figure out why. Sry for not respecting your decision. I will now. See u tomorrow"

 

It's just impossible to get a clear picture when we both bounce back and forth. One day we hate each other and want to get the hell away. The next day we're on the same page in a positive direction and we end up in bed. The worst days are when one of us is positive and the other is negative. Ouch.

[beach]

Obviously her banging and chasing him isn't enough for you.

 

There's no boundary or respect within your M.

 

I get the feeling this isn't her first time she's cheated.

 

She didn't care about your feelings. That says a lot.

 

He ended it - that says a lot too.

 

Being her second choice should be enough.

 

 

It appears she is entitled - needs ego strokes - and figures she's got a hold n you. Not too good from your vantage point...she holds all the power.

 

 

Don't see how the balance gets restored when she can do whatever she pleases without consequences or motivation to change.

[Hyde12]

And I don't know what the separation will do. I just hope it leads us one way or the other. Not sure I can forgive her and not sure she can forgive me. Not sure I can lead her to find the spark ever but I'm pretty sure I can't do that until I improve myself significantly. I don't see many alternatives - worth a shot. Worst case is I live out of the house for a while and do some intensive work on my job and myself. We will tell the kids that I got a place closer to work so I don't have to drive so far every day. I will see them on weekends and probably one night each week. Wife and I will continue one date night each week until one of us can't stand it in either direction.

 

I got a six month lease so we're supposed to reevaluate after that. She seems like a different person than when I started this post but that could change as soon as she finds a new boy toy to turn her on.

[RightThere]

I speak from experience and your wife is following many similar traits mine did.

 

She is not interested in repairing the marriage. She's "in limbo" which means she's not done being selfish yet. That means you are her safety net and she's considering still continuing on either with the existing guy or finding a new guy.

 

She's still going to the same gym. Yeah, different trainer, but trust me, all the other trainers now know she's the married woman looking for something on the side. Her bigger concern is the $1,500 she's still got with the gym versus you marriage.

 

You are in a very vulnerable state right now. I was there too. You need to know that right now, your wife has no interest in reconciling. She's only interested in keeping you as a safety net while she figures stuff out (i.e. plans her exit). I know those texts are only a sample, but she seems very calm in talking about the affair. I have my suspicions that either it wasn't the first time, or there have been other guys.

 

If she's not 100% in on reconciling, then by default she needs to be 100% out of it.

 

Sorry you are going through this. And although you can accept some of the blame for the problems in your marriage, she is responsible for the infidelity.

[julzfromsa]

Emotionally draining. I cannot imagine been in a space like this. I am trully sorry for this absolute BS that you are going through. Your wife seems to be extremely confused on absolutely everything except for her primal need to **** YOUNGER MEN.

 

You seem and sound like an amazing person. You are devoted, dedicated, good farther, and regardless of what you may think, a pretty decent husband. YOU DO NOT NEED THIS.

 

All i can say, is that you deserve better. You deserve to be happy and im sure a life without her would be happier. Be a farther to your kids, but you are also a man. So be a man..

 

Sorry my friend. I hate this space you are in

[oldshirt]

She's been checking out and disengaging and going down this path for literally YEARS. you are just now starting to catch on and see tiny bits of the tip of the iceberg.

 

She's been making her bed for years (without intentions of having you in it).

 

For you to survive this with any spec of dignity and self esteem left, you need to protect yourself, protect your assets and protect your relationship with your children.

 

At this point I think your number priority needs to be getting with your lawyer and working on a survival plan and making sure you don't get screwed over and raped.

 

I don't know if staying in the house or getting your own place really matters all that much.

 

If you think you will be better off getting away and working out your own plans for moving on in your own place then go for it.

 

IMHO she is pretty far gone and her regard for you is basically zero. I think she sees you as a big furry Care Bear that helps babysit and entertain the kids while she's goes out for her own fun. I think she'll do that whether you are in the house or in your own place.

 

What I think matters now is how well you protect yourself and how you pursue your own better self interests and move on.

 

If you can do that better in in your own place go for it but whatever you do, do it for you, not because you think it will improve your chances with her. I think that ship has sailed.

[beach]

She holds all the power.

 

There's not much hope for her changing...short of a miracle.

 

You either accept it the way it is - or leave her to find someone more in alignment with your expectations.

 

 

That decision is up to you - decide and take action on that decision.

 

 

When I had to consider lowering my expectations, morals and belief system to suit my then husband - I divorced him.

[Hyde12]

On Monday night, I figured I had nothing to lose and broke one of the big rules from MMSL Primer. I issued an ultimatum to the partner with the higher sex rank.

 

Tuesday when I got home from work, she had removed the passcode from her phone, quit the gym, made an appointment to tour the new gym that I joined, was in the middle of writing an apology letter to me, and asked my permission to keep doing a saturday morning boot camp thing that she does with her girlfriend (a different trainer from the same gym runs this privately and it is not in the gym).

 

Since then, every other sentence from her is something about not wanting me to move out. Afraid of losing her safety net / Plan B, I guess.

 

I told her that I'm still moving out. I'm kind of looking forward to it.

 

I told her a few other things too:

I understand my role in what you did but it was still a betrayal. Understanding my role doesn't make it any less painful.

I'm still shocked at how easy it was for her to lie to me

I have serious doubts about whether she truly intends to stay faithful during the separation because I don't know how to believe her word.

The only way we could ever consider repairing would require 6 things to ALL happen. If any one of them doesn't then we're calling it quits: I trust her, She trusts me, I forgive her, She forgives me, I start recovery from Nice Guy Syndrome and continue that work, and We both find the 'spark' again.

 

That's a tall order so I guess we'll see what happens next. We're still planning date night once a week, a kids night for me once a week at the house, spend saturdays as a family, church together on sundays, alternate who gets the kids the rest of sunday, go to marriage counseling and the marriage workshops at church, and both continue reading and trying to solidify our positions instead of flip-flopping every few days.

 

I signed up for the MAP coach phone call and will likely sign up for the 12 week coaching program. Has anyone done that? Helpful?

 

I think RufWarrior's Rx looks solid so I'll start working that too. Either way, I come out of this as a better man.

 

I'm at work now and just a message from her:

 

"I think the little regard that I started to show toward your feelings speaks volumes to how low and desperate I was feeling. I am not that person. I have always been caring and thought of others. We had fallen to a really rotten place where I felt at the end of my rope, desperate for happiness, desperate for attention that wasn't anger, desperate for someone to show me that they thought I was attractive even if it was fake. Like I have said before I know you loved me and thought I was attractive but your anger towards me which I felt all the time overrode that. There was only so long I guess I could try and convince myself that you did love me without feeling it. I mostly felt that you hated me, resented me, we're angry at me that I was the reason you weren't happy or sexually satisfied. That I was the reason why your life sucked.

 

My focus has always been keeping us together, maybe to a fault. I always wanted our kids and us to have a happy family life. I tried for many years to make that happen. When it became apparent that it wasn't going to I did detach from you but I wasn't ready to force the kids to detach. At least if you lived with us you were still a presence and really they didn't know the difference between an involved dad or not they just knew you and that was good enough for them. I wasn't ready to change their world.

 

Trusting you - I'm not sure how to gain that back. I don't think there is a magic solution I think you have to just be willing to try again. I did it over and over and over again hoping things would be different. At first I didn't think I could trust the things that you are doing now would stick. Over time I have been impressed with your level of involvement with it and how much you have learned about yourself that I'm getting to the point that I would trust you again. That trying this one more time knowing we both don't want to go backwards and knowing that this time you are doing way more towards changing than ever before could be worth it.

 

Trusting me...I think you have to know that my actions were completely out of character. That it's you I've always chased and you that I always wanted. I felt very dark and desperate - that is the best way I can describe it - desperate. I desperately wanted to feel happiness and I really did want it to come from you but nothing I did or said made that happen. I was trying to tell you how unhappy I was for years you just didn't listen. I was trying for years to make us better - you just didn't want to. I'm sorry I hurt you. This isn't my full apology. Still working on that. Honestly I feel a lot of anxiety about writing all this afraid you are going to pick it apart and make decisions based on what I've written without talking to me. I'm a better talker than writer but seems like we don't get much time to do that these days."

 

She's still blaming me for her cheating but she is right about a lot of that stuff. I mean how hard she tried for years, how angry and frustrated I was with her, how often she tried to tell me, etc. Hopefully, in her 'full apology' she takes some responsibility too.

[RightThere]

She's still blaming me for her cheating but she is right about a lot of that stuff. I mean how hard she tried for years, how angry and frustrated I was with her, how often she tried to tell me, etc. Hopefully, in her 'full apology' she takes some responsibility too.

 

Yes she is still blaming you. So she's still not ready to properly reconcile because she still feels justified in what she did.

 

And as for how she "tried to tell you" many times, communication is a two way street. She didn't communicate well to you, and you didn't listen well to her. It's not one or the other as she's trying to blame shift. Just because she was bad at talking to you gives you no justification to go a sleep around. Same reasoning that just because you were bad at listening doesn't mean she gets to screw around.

 

Although I'm sure she tried often to tell you things, I'm sure you often tried to communicate to her things that went deaf. Don't let her re-write history in your own head too that she gave you all the signs that this was going to happen but you missed them on purpose.

[beach]

It won't get better until SHE realizes SHE is the only one responsible for the decisions SHE made that caused her cheating!

 

 

I've lived through hell with an abusive, controlling ********* - for 23 years - and never did I ever consider cheating as a way to solve my unhappiness.

 

That is on HER. Her choices are poor. What does SHE plan to change about herself? How will she avoid making such terrible decisions in the future?

 

You can't possibly trust her!!! She's ruined that! Trust is earned! She may still be earning it back ten years from now.

[oldshirt]

 

I told her that I'm still moving out. I'm kind of looking forward to it.

 

 

What was the ultimatum? What was the 'A' option and what was the 'B' option?

 

My other question is what is your objectives for moving out?

 

It seems like she is wanting to stay and try to R. Is your objective in moving out to give yourself room to reflect and decide to stay or go? Is your objective to leave the marriage and move on? Is your objective to let the dust settle and work on reconciliation from another house?

 

She'll have those questions and it will be a legit question on her part. If you gave her an ultimatum to stay and work or leave and divorce, but you are leaving anyway, then it isn't much of an ultimatum.

 

If you are wanting her to trust you too, your words and your actions have to be congruent.

 

If you give her six ground rules that she has to comply with to stay in the marriage but you are going to leave her anyway, then why should she put herself through that when she could be screwing 24 year old trainers while you live on your own and are drawing up divorce papers. I would if I were in that position.

 

If you challenged her to stay and work on the marriage, please tell me you have a plan in place for working on the marriage. Otherwise if you plan on divorcing anyway (which I wouldn't blame you) then you'll lose credibility by challenging her to stay but you leaving anyway. You'll set youself up to be the bad guy again.

 

Athol Kay will advise you to formulate a war plan to win the war should it come to that. But he will also stress that it's just as important to have a plan in place to win the peace.

[Hyde12]

I told her to take the passcode off her phone, never put it on again, and allow total transparency to her phone, computer, ipad, etc. Also, quit the gym immediately. The alternative was I go file for divorce the next day.

 

I am moving out to clear my head, work on myself, and take some time to think about if I will ever be able to forgive / trust her. I didn't give her six ground rules. I said that those 6 things need to happen if we are going to find a happy marriage. If any of those things do not happen, we will not make it. Currently none of those things are in place. They are not for her to do alone - they are going to require cooperation and work and professional help.

 

I thought the plan was pretty clear. I do the MAP coaching program, work hard at the gym and lose the rest of the weight, and start breaking free from Nice Guy Syndrome. Whether we work it out or not, I will be better off.

 

During that time, we will have our date night once a week, a kids night for me once a week at the house, spend saturdays as a family, church together on sundays, alternate who gets the kids the rest of sunday, go to marriage counseling and the marriage workshops at church, and both continue reading and trying to solidify our positions instead of flip-flopping every few days. Isn't that a plan to potentially win the peace?

 

I have already consulted 3 attorneys and the one I like has all of our tax returns, net worth statements, etc. I think that is as far as I need to go right now to prepare to win the war.

[beach]

Did the attorney's state whether she would pay you spousal support if you divorce?

 

How does a potential divorce affect her money she gets from family?

[Hyde12]

Beach, I'd like to answer that but this is a public forum and she knows I've been getting advice from message boards like this. I'd rather not show my cards in case she's hanging around. When we talk about D we usually agree that we should try mediation first.

 

If the gloves come off, I'll be OK.