Theory: Average looking people have the hardest time dating.

December 23, 2013

DATING IS TOUGH FOR EVERYBODY!

But it's a lot tougher if you're average and pursuing supermodels - guys, don't do that.

It's also tough for attractive ladies who have impossible expectations and feel that they feel they can afford to keep chasing unicorns because there are so many guys after them, there's always another one around he corner, and thus, they don't have to take any one guy too seriously.

I saw an interesting survey on OkCupid - most men shown photos of different women rated most women average-looking while some on each side of the bubble were more attractive than average and some less so. Most women, on the other hand, when show photos of men, rated 80% of the men less than average in the looks department. Now, that's interesting! It can't be that 80% of men are below average. So, ladies, you've got to be a little more realistic about the man you're going to be with - and this doesn't mean settling! Being grounded isn't giving up, it's just being mature!

December 23, 2013

as this scale you all are using is your own personal scale

No it's not - I suspect he/she tried to establish some sort of general or averaged scale. Which in all honesty still makes more sense than any individual examples, despite it's obvious flaws. It might be true that person A doesn't find person B attractive but what does that matter if person C to Z do? Beauty is subjective but it's not random.

December 23, 2013

People hyper-focused on looks will have a harder time dating. I'm not saying looks don't matter, but the most successful people in relationships probably aren't the ones primarily seeking hotness..

I don't think anyone is "hyper focused". I am simply trying to have a discussion on looks. Looks are what draw people together across a crowded room.

If you're actually doing the math and assigning rank on a scale, you're missing forest for the trees.

I'm a scientist I assign numbers to everything as easily as other people write of feelings. I do vector calculus in my head...

December 23, 2013

So someone like this http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger2/7129/415/320/mask.jpg

Is as good looking as someone who looks like...
http://application.denofgeek.com/images/unearthly/David_Bowie.jpg

You do realize both faces wear significant amounts of make-up in order to get intended impressions, right?

As an average girl with a great taste, I always relied on handsome men with a horrible taste. They do exist

*I'd totally marry Bowie!

I'd say your general attitude ups your attractiveness, regardless of how you look.

It sucks because everyone thinks hot people have it so easy. No. Not even remotely true.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__HeE6NWmDE

Edited December 23, 2013 by FrankieFrank

December 23, 2013

That's what I'm describing as not relationship ready. M, in particular, was dating another guy while sleeping with you. This is a strong sign that you are investing someone who is NOT ready for a serious relationship. If you want to find a relationship, it's important to know how to recognize a good potential mate--someone ready for the same..

That would be true if you are opposed to multidating. Since you are of course you will have a judgmental pov on the subject. At least everything I see you write on multidating sounds judgmental to those of us who do not oppose it.

Take two couples, both in mid twenties, both working on finishing school and starting careers. One couple might split up because the timing is "wrong", and put career first. The other couple might stay together, making compromises in career to stay in the same city. It's less about timing and more about priorities, and neither is right or wrong. But the people who put relationships first will be more likely to be partnered at 30.

Yes that is the timing being "wrong" for one person and right for the other.

In the case of myself and M we are both in a field where we have what is called the "two body problem".

I was about to graduate and go to one of a number of schools for a PhD or cities for jobs that could be all over the US. The nearest one is 100 miles away. When she graduates she will go to a school likely thousands of miles away. In all honest plainness a LDR of indefinite length would never work unless one person sacrificed their whole career in our case.

In her case her looks were not a primary consideration. It was her passion for our subject and her empathy for my situations that really sold me on her.

On that note let me say this thread isn't about looks being primary this is about how looks effect dating. They are a factor. They are the factor that draws people together, makes men make the first move, and makes women say yes or no to a date. Looks either open the door do discovering a personality you love or close it no matter how golden a persons heart is.

Edited December 23, 2013 by Mrlonelyone

December 23, 2013

It's also tough for attractive ladies who have impossible expectations and feel that they feel they can afford to keep chasing unicorns because there are so many guys after them, there's always another one around he corner, and thus, they don't have to take any one guy too seriously.

I saw an interesting survey on OkCupid - most men shown photos of different women rated most women average-looking while some on each side of the bubble were more attractive than average and some less so. Most women, on the other hand, when show photos of men, rated 80% of the men less than average in the looks department. Now, that's interesting! It can't be that 80% of men are below average. So, ladies, you've got to be a little more realistic about the man you're going to be with - and this doesn't mean settling! Being grounded isn't giving up, it's just being mature!

If you define success as finding and being in a fulfilling relationship, then it's people who are socially adept, relate to members of the opposite sex as unique individuals, and are able to develop strong feelings of affection for a particular person... these are the ones who find success.

People who are intent on optimizing genetic potential at any cost, perceive people of the opposite sex as commodities or generic carbon units that can be rated on a one to ten scale, base attractiveness on how the other person makes them feel about themselves (as opposed to feelings for the other person), the what have you done for me lately mentality... these are the people who will always be dissatisfied and looking to trade up for the hotter, newer model. And since there is always a hotter, newer model coming onto the scene... satisfaction remains elusive. They're more concerned with what they're missing, the opportunity cost of being with a particular person, than appreciation of the amazing things that are real and present in this moment.

That's not to say that we all don't do a bit of optimizing, but the ability to switch the focus from all of the possibilities to one individual is key.

December 23, 2013

Finding a date and finding a good long term partner are two different things. Around here you hear two different things... the guys too chicken **** to ask a woman out like to say "women don't like nice guys", while the women who bounce from a-hole to a-hole say "there are no good men". Everyone has issues when it comes to dating.

I've met and dated a lot of very attractive women who have told me that they do not get pursued by many men. They get chased by little boys trying to get into their pants and by nice guys who friendzone themselves by not ever pulling the trigger, but not many actual confident men ask them out. I have many attractive single female friends who complain about how they never get asked out.

Sorry to throw a wrench into your theory but all this sounds like is a bunch of whiny people that would rather complain than to do something about their own situation.

December 23, 2013

I'm an average gal. I am very attracted to my boyfriend.

I am always red hot for ALL my boyfriends.

I have absolutely NO trouble I attaining men who give me butterflies and make me week at the knees.

My boyfriends l has a body to die for. And a super cute face. He finds me, the average girl, to be super cute and beautiful.

I feel privileged to just be one of those average people; I am lucky to be healthy and functioning well, physically. I am grateful. Guys tend to like positive and happy girls like me, who DON'T think their dating options correspond with a scale from 1 to 10 that dictates I how attractive one is.

December 23, 2013

I don't think anyone is "hyper focused". I am simply trying to have a discussion on looks. Looks are what draw people together across a crowded room.

Maybe not people in this thread, but the idea of BBD (if the better deal is looks related) seems hyperfocused on looks. Maybe the women on OLD are hyperfocused on looks, and that's part of the reason they are single.

In the case of myself and M we are both in a field where we have what is called the "two body problem".

I was about to graduate and go to one of a number of schools for a PhD or cities for jobs that could be all over the US. The nearest one is 100 miles away. When she graduates she will go to a school likely thousands of miles away. In all honest plainness a LDR of indefinite length would never work unless one person sacrificed their whole career in our case.

Can you see how your career being first is a big part of the reason you are having a harder time in dating? I'm not judging. There is nothing wrong with putting career first. But no one can have it "all". If you are highly invested in grad school throughout your twenties, moving for different schools, of course that's going to impact relationships.

I'm not against multidating, either, but not all multidating is the same, and the behavior you described in M sounded more like having fun/sowing wild oats than seriously multidating to find a partner. Makes sense since she was planning on moving for her program, and not in a place to get serious with someone.

If you are very serious about school, you'll probably need to find someone less invested in career and willing to move to be with you wherever your career takes you. And you'll have to get better at recognizing serious interest vs. fling interest. One hint is that a woman seriously interested will OPENLY talk about her relationship desires, as least after the first few weeks of dating.

December 23, 2013

Maybe not people in this thread, but the idea of BBD (if the better deal is looks related) seems hyperfocused on looks. Maybe the women on OLD are hyperfocused on looks, and that's part of the reason they are single.

Can you see how your career being first is a big part of the reason you are having a harder time in dating? I'm not judging. There is nothing wrong with putting career first. But no one can have it "all". If you are highly invested in grad school throughout your twenties, moving for different schools, of course that's going to impact relationships.

I'm not against multidating, either, but not all multidating is the same, and the behavior you described in M sounded more like having fun/sowing wild oats than seriously multidating to find a partner. Makes sense since she was planning on moving for her program, and not in a place to get serious with someone.

If you are very serious about school, you'll probably need to find someone less invested in career and willing to move to be with you wherever your career takes you. And you'll have to get better at recognizing serious interest vs. fling interest. One hint is that a woman seriously interested will OPENLY talk about her relationship desires, as least after the first few weeks of dating.

XXOO in my field, before one has a PhD, your career is either first or it's non existent. I could never ever ask M to sacrifice her dreams for mine and she would never ask me to sacrifice mine for hers. I would never ask that of anyone I claim to love/have loved.

Likewise to people who are less invested in school or a career like mine just can't relate to how I feel about mine.

December 23, 2013

DATING IS TOUGH FOR EVERYBODY!

But it's a lot tougher if you're average and pursuing supermodels - guys, don't do that.

It's also tough for attractive ladies who have impossible expectations and feel that they feel they can afford to keep chasing unicorns because there are so many guys after them, there's always another one around he corner, and thus, they don't have to take any one guy too seriously.

I saw an interesting survey on OkCupid - most men shown photos of different women rated most women average-looking while some on each side of the bubble were more attractive than average and some less so. Most women, on the other hand, when show photos of men, rated 80% of the men less than average in the looks department. Now, that's interesting! It can't be that 80% of men are below average. So, ladies, you've got to be a little more realistic about the man you're going to be with - and this doesn't mean settling! Being grounded isn't giving up, it's just being mature!

Online dating is a whole different ball game.

Here are the women who date online:

1. They are chubby or obese

2. They have more baggage than a Lufthansa flight

3. They are bat **** crazy

4. Their profile pics are supermodel material and they are waiting for Brad Pitt to walk through the door, not happening.

December 23, 2013

XXOO in my field, before one has a PhD, your career is either first or it's non existent. I could never ever ask M to sacrifice her dreams for mine and she would never ask me to sacrifice mine for hers. I would never ask that of anyone I claim to love/have loved.

Likewise to people who are less invested in school or a career like mine just can't relate to how I feel about mine.

You don't have to defend it. I understand!

But can you understand how that will necessarily make it more challenging to date and find relationships? It's not a mystery. It's priorities, and the people you surround yourself have similar priorities.

Have you ever considered dating someone NOT in the sciences? In many relationships, one partner takes a career back seat to the other. Especially couples who want to raise children together.

December 23, 2013

I've met and dated a lot of very attractive women who have told me that they do not get pursued by many men. They get chased by little boys trying to get into their pants and by nice guys who friendzone themselves by not ever pulling the trigger, but not many actual confident men ask them out. I have many attractive single female friends who complain about how they never get asked out.

Do you really think these women would have been interested in those "nice guys" anyway? I'd be very surprised. Being one of these guys whose defenses always go up around very attractive women, I can say that while this defense mechanism is a little too insecurity-based, it does serve to point out that I'm not drawn to such a woman as an individual. If she was so great, then I'd feel comfortable enough around her that that would overcome whatever self-consciousness that I'm feeling. Unfortunately, we're socialized into thinking that our masculinity is determined by the number and objective attractiveness of women we can attract, so we're losers if we don't always go after the hottest women possible, even if those women aren't the best matches. Too bad - I'm sure these women will find solutions to their dating "problems".

December 23, 2013

Do you really think these women would have been interested in those "nice guys" anyway? I'd be very surprised. Being one of these guys whose defenses always go up around very attractive women, I can say that while this defense mechanism is a little too insecurity-based, it does serve to point out that I'm not drawn to such a woman as an individual. If she was so great, then I'd feel comfortable enough around her that that would overcome whatever self-consciousness that I'm feeling. Unfortunately, we're socialized into thinking that our masculinity is determined by the number and objective attractiveness of women we can attract, so we're losers if we don't always go after the hottest women possible, even if those women aren't the best matches. Too bad - I'm sure these women will find solutions to their dating "problems".

Just because beautiful women don't get approached by guys doesn't mean they will settle for the average Joe, because they won't. They have the luxury of waiting for an attractive man with a great career and money.

December 23, 2013

Do you really think these women would have been interested in those "nice guys" anyway? I'd be very surprised. Being one of these guys whose defenses always go up around very attractive women, I can say that while this defense mechanism is a little too insecurity-based, it does serve to point out that I'm not drawn to such a woman as an individual. If she was so great, then I'd feel comfortable enough around her that that would overcome whatever self-consciousness that I'm feeling. Unfortunately, we're socialized into thinking that our masculinity is determined by the number and objective attractiveness of women we can attract, so we're losers if we don't always go after the hottest women possible, even if those women aren't the best matches. Too bad - I'm sure these women will find solutions to their dating "problems".

Without a doubt they would have been interested if these guys had shown just a bit of confidence.

In this case, like many women complain about, they are looking for a good man. Nice boys and players don't do it for them. They seem to be looking for someone honorable and confident in themselves.

December 23, 2013

Just because beautiful women don't get approached by guys doesn't mean they will settle for the average Joe, because they won't. They have the luxury of waiting for an attractive man with a great career and money.

Agreed. It's laughable (but also pitiful) when extremely attractive women go on and on about how difficult dating is for them. Attractive women are the most revered and desirable items on the planet, and yet somehow they manage to see their glass as half empty. What they're saying is, I need everyone's sympathy because I can't get what I want and deserve. The only logical explanation is that a lifetime of adulation has pushed their expectations into the stratosphere. Not being able to get everything you want is a common denominator throughout all of humanity, but when they see 99.9 percent of all men as unworthy of their attention, and then sing woe is me because the one guy in a thousand who makes their panties wet won't pursue them properly... make it hard to take'em seriously.

December 23, 2013

Without a doubt they would have been interested if these guys had shown just a bit of confidence.

In this case, like many women complain about, they are looking for a good man. Nice boys and players don't do it for them. They seem to be looking for someone honorable and confident in themselves.

...and who has 6 pac abs and a 6 figure income. You left those out.

Agreed. It's laughable (but also pitiful) when extremely attractive women go on and on about how difficult dating is for them. Attractive women are the most revered and desirable items on the planet, and yet somehow they manage to see their glass as half empty. What they're saying is, I need everyone's sympathy because I can't get what I want and deserve. The only logical explanation is that a lifetime of adulation has pushed their expectations into the stratosphere. Not being able to get everything you want is a common denominator throughout all of humanity, but when they see 99.9 percent of all men as unworthy of their attention, and then sing woe is me because the one guy in a thousand who makes their panties wet won't pursue them properly... make it hard to take'em seriously.

This so much this.

Then to top it off they go for the wrong man again and again.

December 23, 2013

...and who has 6 pac abs and a 6 figure income. You left those out.

Well your username fits anyways.

Bitter is an attractive trait.

December 23, 2013

I didn't read every single post here so maybe I missed it, but is anyone factoring in intelligence?

I take two sets of public transport to and from work every week day and I see a lot of very ugly, very stupid, very happily in love people all the time.

Ignorance can be bliss.

My take away from this - don't over-think love (does he, will she, should I...)

Just do it.

December 23, 2013

I'm an average gal. I am very attracted to my boyfriend.

I am always red hot for ALL my boyfriends.

I have absolutely NO trouble I attaining men who give me butterflies and make me week at the knees.

My boyfriends l has a body to die for. And a super cute face. He finds me, the average girl, to be super cute and beautiful.

I feel privileged to just be one of those average people; I am lucky to be healthy and functioning well, physically. I am grateful. Guys tend to like positive and happy girls like me, who DON'T think their dating options correspond with a scale from 1 to 10 that dictates I how attractive one is.

What are you saying? You're not average. Your avatar is pretty cute, I think most guys would agree you're rather attractive. I'd say your results are going to be a little skewed because of that.

December 23, 2013

With regard to dating, this aligns with my life experience and social circle. The hot to average women, of any age I've been, are generally never truly single, meaning they are unattached and only dating. Usually their relationships overlap. Guys are always after them and they start dating someone new before their relationship or marriage officially ends.

Based on the LTR's and M I've had, #5 sounds about right for my life experience and demographic. Had I been more bold and willing to be perceived as creepy (another thread running right now), I think position might have been improved. Dating, or rather finding a date with a demonstrably single woman, was difficult and debilitating, for my personality anyway. That's how life works sometimes. It's a lot better, and more peaceful, now.

I think at the end of the day It depends on what you define as "successful" in the dating context

December 23, 2013

@ Revolver Hot, semi hot, and just above average looking women may get more dates. Bet do these women keep men or do they get dumped about half the time they change relationships?

Yeah but that's a BIG part of it. You can't really be in a relationship if you're not dating.

December 23, 2013

Well your username fits anyways.

Bitter is an attractive trait.

Yes it is bitter to point out that physical fitness and a good income are attractive silly me. I should know about all the double amputee, out of shape, homeless men dating supermodels.

Love really is blind when you're not bitter.

December 23, 2013

XXOO in my field, before one has a PhD, your career is either first or it's non existent. I could never ever ask M to sacrifice her dreams for mine and she would never ask me to sacrifice mine for hers. I would never ask that of anyone I claim to love/have loved.

Likewise to people who are less invested in school or a career like mine just can't relate to how I feel about mine.

I'm a PhD scientist in academia, so I know what you mean. Your career isn't just something you do because it's what you want, it stems directly from who you are. Many people aren't going to get that. I envisioned marrying someone with a similar educational experience and career ambitions, but I discovered that the women in my graduate program had very different agendas for their love lives that seemed to involve going after "opposites-attract" relationships.

However, you can make the best of this . . .

Have you ever considered dating someone NOT in the sciences? In many relationships, one partner takes a career back seat to the other. Especially couples who want to raise children together.

My wife's background is not in the sciences, but she worked as a secretary in my graduate program department when I met her. So she knew what she was getting into as far as my profession went, but at the same time her job prospects were flexible enough for us to be able to travel across the country as needed for me to find jobs.

All in all, though, a lot can be said for waiting until you are in a stable career-track position before getting serious about LTRs. I probably should have done that myself.

December 23, 2013

Yes it is bitter to point out that physical fitness and a good income are attractive silly me. I should know about all the double amputee, out of shape, homeless men dating supermodels.

Love really is blind when you're not bitter.

No one once said that looks and status had no impact on attraction.

My statement was:

In this case, like many women complain about, they are looking for a good man. Nice boys and players don't do it for them. They seem to be looking for someone honorable and confident in themselves.

Your comment:

...and who has 6 pac abs and a 6 figure income. You left those out.

You made a blanket statement that was bitter. Attracting a quality mate is certainly easier when you're not bitter.

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Theory: Average looking people have the hardest time dating.

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