Never been physically attracted to my H

[michelangelo]

Karma as you are framing it here seems to be a way out from personal responsibility for one's own actions.

 

There is nothing to break free from in regards to your ex-husband so you can do right by your current husband and yourself.

 

You make a choice to stop behaving badly and just do it. And pursue honorably behavior going forward.

 

And if you have no idea what honorable behavior is, seek out guidance in that with a professional counsellor, a minister, etc.

[NuevaVida]

Your situation sounds similar to mine except you are on the receiving end of being involved with a serial cheat. What do you think would have been the best way for her to have handled the situation (being that the affairs already happened)? Are there certain things that she could have said or actions that she could have taken to lessen the blow and make you a stronger, more confident person. Do you feel way less trustful to women because of what happened? I am afraid of having my husband come out of this as a defeated self-loathing person who has no trust or respect for woman, a man who feels like a loser and a failure. I want to figure out a way for that not to happen, for him understand that he isn't the loser, I am. Perhaps he was temporarily blinded, but now he sees the light and knows that he deserves better. I don't want him to close himself off from the possibility of meeting someone else in the future if things between us cannot be mended.

[michelangelo]

Being honest with him will do alot for assigninig blame for this squarely on your shoulders.

 

Telling him or your remorse and feeling like a loser is something you ought to do.

 

Your failings, not his.

[Bryanp]

Hello,

 

Just a quick observation from what you have written.

It sounds like you have a husband that truly and sincerely

loves you and is a forgiving person as well. It sounds to me

that he is a one in a million guy. Maybe you should open your

eyes and see what you really really have. I think most women

would give anything to be in a position where there have a

husband that truly adores his wife and is willing to do and learn

anything to make her happy. I doubt you will be able to find another

person like this in the rest of your life. I do hope you appreciate what you really have. I wish you luck.

[DewDrop]

Selfish you are! Get a divorce so that your husband can find a woman who will love him for who he is and be able to have patience with him when it comes to making love.

 

I believe in Karma and you will get yours!

[whichwayisup]

I am afraid of having my husband come out of this as a defeated self-loathing person who has no trust or respect for woman, a man who feels like a loser and a failure. I want to figure out a way for that not to happen, for him understand that he isn't the loser, I am. Perhaps he was temporarily blinded, but now he sees the light and knows that he deserves better. I don't want him to close himself off from the possibility of meeting someone else in the future if things between us cannot be mended.

 

I'm sure he will be OK once he deals with what he has to face. Don't think you should be too concerned about what happens afterwards. He sounds like a special guy, many women would love to have him, so I doubt he will close himself off to future possibilities if it doesn't work out with you. Who knows? Maybe he'll be relieved and ready to be on his own. That is what most do after a breakup. Don't know too many who jump into another bed so fast after being dumped. Therapy can help him as well. But I'm sure he can figure it out on his own.

 

Please don't try and 'fix' him if you do dump him. Allow him to grieve the way he knows and let him be.

 

Some therapy alone for you could help you as well.

[NuevaVida]

Please don't bother to write to me if you are not going to say anything productive. I thought I would get more understanding considering this is an infidelity board for people going through similar experiences. No one is perfect and at least I am admitting my mistakes on this board without trying to sound like the good guy or victim. I have ended my A's and am trying to take the necessary steps to turn this nightmare around. Streaming insults and threats at me is like flogging a person who already is dead. What is the point?

[TMCM]

Like reservoirdog1 I also was married to a woman who was a serial cheater. Unlike you, she did not have any remorse and was very cruel to me and our daughters. I ended up divorcing her and now am remarried to a truly loving and kind hearted woman. How was I affected by my ex-W behavior? I was totally devastated but I had two little girls who needed me more than ever and it was through them that I got the strength and willpower to move on with my life. As far as my trust in women was concerned, I was more distrustful of my own judgement than anything else because all the huge red flags were waving in front of my face and that of my closest friends, but unlike them, I CHOSE to ignore them. But I was very fortunate in having wise friends who gave me life saving advice and to whom I will be forever grateful for their friendship and wisdom.

 

TMCM

[NuevaVida]

Thank you all for being so responsive. Every time I feel the urge to go online to see if my former OM is there, I go here instead. This forum is a great eye opening experience, especially hearing from the men who have been cheated on. The feelings of shame and remorse I get from reading their messages keep me on the right track.

 

Lots of you commented that my H is a wonderful person and a nice guy. You are totally right. Therein lies the problems. If he were a jerk, it would be a lot easier. The only problem I have with him is the physical relationship. Even though I wish I could be asexual, I have selfish needs that can become overpowering. Because everything else is so good and feels so right, the sexual dysfuction is more intensified. Besides the sleeping arrangement, he is really easy to live with. We balance each other out. I do the things around the house he hates and vice versa. When he goes away on business trips, I feel lost and vice versa. We depend on each other for a lot of things and work very well as a team.

 

And to those who think I have done nothing for this man, if he had not met me he would probably still be an "overweight smoking alcoholic with a hook nose who has no sex at all". These are his words, not mine. I went through a lot trying to get him to stop drinking and smoking. It was hard to transfer his addiction to drinking and smoking into a healthy addiction, being an athlete. When he wanted to give up, I kept pushing him forward to accomplish things he had no idea he was capable of accomplishing. He says that when he feels lazy or wants to lapse, he thinks of me. When I tell him stories about my patients who wish they had his opportunity, he thinks of them for encouragement when he reaches a wall during his workouts and races. He even went beyond that and is very actively involved with charities that help fight cancer, etc. Even his family and friends are amazed at his turn around and see me as the person who saved him. However, I don't want to feel like I am always doing him favors, helping him become a better person. And yes, I know he has done his share of favors for me. I don't want to be the "fix it" person a poster described. I feel like his mother at times which squelches any sexual interest. He says he feels so much more confident since he met me and now has made many more friends and has a full life, but I wonder if he feels deep down like he will never be good enough. I feel terrible for feeling that way about him and for making him feel that way. What is wrong with me?

 

If I could feel a sexual connection with anyone in the world, I would chose him. That is how much I love him and how compatible we are in other respects. But how does sexual attraction get created from thin air? Does anyone have any experience with this?

 

This evening we went to yoga and he is very positive about becoming more limber. I am so proud of him.

[Devildog]

It sounds to me like you have absolute trust and faith in your husband. You will need that if you decide to try this.

 

Get some silk scarves or neckties. Get an assortment of items that you choose, a feather, ice, things like that. Wear some clothes that allow access, especially from the front. Loose skirt, blouse, front hook bra. Now, let him tie you up and blindfold you. Allow him to use the items you have previously selected to tease and stroke your body, let him go at his own pace. Let him undress and access you at his desire and just tease and work at you. And make sure you focus solely on the sensations. Don't think about who is doing it, and don't imagine it is someone else doing it, focus only on the sensations. You might orgasm before he even enters you. But irregardless you should be able to be filled with passion and when he is inside you, and you are at the moment of orgasm, tell him to take the blindfold off so you will see it is him who has gotten you to this point.

[RowanRavyn]

Devil Dog!! Nice suggestion!

 

You could also try tying him to a chair, making sure he has a good view of the bed, floor, couch whatever....pleasure yourself in front of him. Take your time, when you are really hot...turn the cards. Take HIM.

 

One good sexual experience with him will lead to another.

[moimeme]

But how does sexual attraction get created from thin air? Does anyone have any experience with this?

 

Sex is absolutely all in the brain. Forget the 'attraction'. That's about biology trying to get you to mate. People become sexually attracted to people who would be absolute disasters as their mates simply because we are just animals that Nature wants to have reproduce.

 

But you repeat the mantra over and over that you're not attracted to him and never can be. You are reinforcing this idea to yourself constantly and, like any pattern of thinking, it becomes self-fulfilling. I for sure have become attracted to people who didn't at first turn my crank. One or two because they were amazing kissers and that got the engine running. And others because I always found something sexy about them. Has he got nice lips? Strong arms? A muscular chest? A nice butt? Find something that's hot about him and focus on that. It'll spread until you think of him as hot.

 

The other thing you can do is pattern yourself to be attracted to him. One theory about fetishes is that people can develop them even at a very early age by being aroused while in the presence or experiencing the touch of the item which becomes fetishized, so for instance, one fellow developed a fetish for the scent and feel of rubber because he got horny while being spanked by his mom who was wearing rubber gloves. The point being that if you override your brain's 'he's not sexy' script and allow yourself to imagine him ( or the hot bit of him) while you're aroused, you can, I do believe, train yourself to be turned on by him.

 

Heck. Maybe even try hypnosis!!!! Or maybe take some classes in Tantra - that's put the fire in relationships that have gone cold. He certainly sounds like a one-in-a-million guy. I think it's worth working hard on learning to appreciate what you've got.

[jmargel]

Originally posted by NuevaVida

I'm not offended by your comments. They don't seem angry, but real. You've been through crap and you are justified for feeling the way you do. I also believe in karma. You asked about why my former bf dumped me. Well, it was because he was significantly older than me and just using me for fun. He made me believe that he would marry him and that he loved me. I was both mentally and physically attracted to him, so I thought. Because of the age difference, however, his family did not approve of me and family was important to him. So, I was totally duped as well, for many years of my life. I am not telling you this to justify how I am behaving currently but just to agree that karma does exist. Every action does have a consequence. Every time we treat another cruelly, the other, in reaction, may subconsciously treat someone else cruelly. What I need to do is stop this viscious cycle of negative karma and create something positive instead.

 

Well, then can't you see you have used this guy like what you felt in regards to what your ex did to you? Your husband and your ex are two TOTALLY different people. In order to stop this viscious cycle you made the first step in realizing you created a problem and want it resolved. The next step is telling your husband about the affairs, letting him know you need counseling and must do this on your own for the time being.

 

You are afraid to love again, which is understandable. Alot of people go through the same thing when they are in a long term relationship that ends. So, you decided to go with something safe, even though it wasn't something you wanted. It's the same reason why people stay in abusive relationships, it's because they are comfortable in knowing what the future holds. Their (and your) fear of the future, the unknown in regards to love and the fear of rejection is so great that they are willing to stay with someone, just because they are there physically and you have chosen this path because you knew he wanted to be with you even though the feeling wasn't mutual. Maybe I'm totally off base, but that's what I've gathered so far.

 

The thing is, the fear of rejection and the fear of the unknown is usually so much greater than what reality is. There is no one person in this world that would be accepted and loved by everyone else. So there will always be the risk of rejection and the feeling of being unloved. However there are people out there that do and will love you and you need to focus on that.

 

Right now actions speak louder than words and I think you now know what you should do.

[TMCM]

If you were to divorce your H and move in with one of your OM you had great sex with, how long do you think it would be be before the sexual thrill would be gone? Now I'm not asking this with the purpose of you staying married but to make you think that maybe it is not so much the fact that your H is a dud in the bedroom [which he may be] but that your sexual appetite for other men may be more a symptom of you viewing your marriage as a prison. Moimeme was absolutely right when he/she said that "Sex is absolutely all in the brain" and right now part of your brain has been telling you over and over again that you are tied "for life" to a sexually unattractive man, which is not true because by your own admission he has improved his health and physical appearance considerably; wants to become a much better lover; and you have the freedom to divorce any time you want. You may want to read How Can I Recover Sexual Desire for My Husband after My Affair? for it has some insightful information that may be of some help to you. Good luck.

 

 

TMCM

[LucreziaBorgia]

Originally posted by NuevaVida

But how does sexual attraction get created from thin air? Does anyone have any experience with this?

 

That's a tough one. Its one thing to rediscover attraction when attraction was there before, but quite another to create attraction where there was none to begin with. I think even rediscovering attraction can be very difficult once its gone.

 

Biological physical attraction has got a good deal to do with brain chemistry, pheromones, and stuff like that - and if that isn't happening, you can't fake it. You can fool your emotions and you can fool other people, but you can't fool your brain. If you are not attracted, you aren't. Period.

 

Some people can, however form a different sort of 'learned attraction' by training themselves to be attracted, and by making an effort to be attracted - which I can see happening in your case over time. You can, through communication and effort build a sexual relationship which will be satisfying for you both. The key for this to work though, is that you have to be fully interested in committing yourself to it. This means no other men - you will never be able to build this sort of attraction while still giving in to the attractions that are more intense and intuitive.

 

Whether or not you can achieve this depends on what emotional involvement you have with this guy. If it is very high, then there is a chance that you can somehow have an attraction build out of that. If your emotional involvement is only so-so, then there really won't be a motivation to make that effort.

[reservoirdog1]

Reservoirdog1 - Your situation sounds similar to mine except you are on the receiving end of being involved with a serial cheat. What do you think would have been the best way for her to have handled the situation (being that the affairs already happened)? Are there certain things that she could have said or actions that she could have taken to lessen the blow and make you a stronger, more confident person. Do you feel way less trustful to women because of what happened? I am afraid of having my husband come out of this as a defeated self-loathing person who has no trust or respect for woman, a man who feels like a loser and a failure. I want to figure out a way for that not to happen, for him understand that he isn't the loser, I am. Perhaps he was temporarily blinded, but now he sees the light and knows that he deserves better. I don't want him to close himself off from the possibility of meeting someone else in the future if things between us cannot be mended.

 

Nueva, you raise some interesting questions, and I'm not sure I have satisfactory answers to all of them. But I'll give it a shot.

 

Both during the nominal attempt at reconciliation and on numerous occasions during the first year of separation, TBXW made many comments on my perceived shortcomings, and as much as she claimed she wasn't justifying what she did, that's pretty much what many of them were. (You can paint a turd any colour, and it's still a turd.) She took great issue with the fact that I talked about things with my friends and family after she'd decided she didn't want to reconcile anymore. She accused me of having broken MY vows because, in her view, I hadn't pushed her hard enough to keep her interested in the marriage. (And those are only two examples.) She'd inevitably apologize for such outbursts within about 24 hours. But over time, each negative comment from her took on greater and greater significance, while each apology meant less and less. Over time, I started to have fewer and fewer positive feelings towards her. Now, my feelings are somewhere between negativity and indifference.

 

What could she have done differently? She could have owned up, accepted responsibility without attempts at justification or spiteful comments. (That's not to say that I didn't have shortcomings, but hey... I didn't cheat and deceive her.) She could have demonstrated a willingness to work with me to rebuild, without chucking everything away (the attempt we made was pretty much me doing all the work). Her comments and her defeatism didn't wound me -- they made me angry. They made me dislike her. They killed much of my remaining respect for her. They led me to conclude that, since she wasn't interested in helping me to heal from everything, I was within my rights to seek that healing from my friends and family, and f*ck her if she didn't like it.

 

The result of all of this (fortunately enough for me, I suppose) is that, because of all the negativity her actions and comments produced in me, I have no difficulty perceiving her as the loser and the failure in this situation. I don't have self-esteem problems. I don't have a blanket distrust of women because I don't believe that she represents women as a gender. I now try to keep her influence on my life to a minimum (it would be nothing at all were it not for the kids).

 

I don't know if my own reactions are in any way typical or normal. But as for what you can do: commit yourself, mind, body and soul, to a period of at least six months in which you work your ass off to build an honest marriage with him. Your lack of attraction to him is probably at least in part because you never gave it the chance to develop -- but this can be changed. NEVER say anything to him that can remotely be construed as justifying or excusing what you did. Be totally honest with him about the past, and answer all his questions. If, after those six months, you still aren't feeling it, hopefully the two of you will have built up enough of a reservoir of honesty, renewed trust and friendship to prevent him from lapsing into hating you if things end -- at least he'll have seen you making an honest effort.

 

That, at least, is one man's opinion.

[NuevaVida]

Thanks for all of your advice. I really appreciate the time that people have spent helping me resolve this. I am going to focus on my marriage for at least 6 months, with weekly visits to the sex therapist. During that period, I will also look around for tantra classes, massage for couples classes etc. and sign up for them. If I can find any retreats or anyone has any suggestions of any in the west coast, let me know. The blindfolding idea sounds great and I think it may work, but first I'll talk to the therapist to figure out a way to suggest it to him without sounding insulting. I have tried the masturbation thing before and he got frustrated and confused because the angle I do things is different from the angles he is able to do things from. I will have to learn to be really patient and less picky during this period. If you guys are interested, I'll keep you posted on the progress. Again, I appreciate all your comments because they have allowed me to view things from different angles.

[moimeme]

http://www.gottman.com/

 

Of all the relationship gurus, I think Gottman's probably right up there at the top. He's done some amazing research and written good stuff. His institute has weekends and courses for couples. There's also marriagebuilders.com

[JenniferN]

I would say do him and yourself a big favor and end the marriage. He deserves a woman who really loves and cares about him and who is wants him for who he is... and by staying with him you are hendering him a life that he deserves.

[candyfloss]

Its sounds like uve gone into this marriage for the sake of ur own imsecuriities. U felt u needed someone to be with, and felt lonely. U needed a place to leave, and u put all this onto this poor man, without 'as it sounds' loving him.

 

Spend some time away from him. Look into ur self an find out who u really are. U are not being fair to him by stayin with him. Learn to be strong woman without having to depend on a man to make u wot u think u should be, or having to depend on a man to look after u, an make u hole.

 

This guy needs u to let him go, and find a new woman that can love him the way u cant. That can teach him to satisfy their needs, and to recieve his love, int he way u have never recieved it, or given any love.

[Mr Spock]

I do think you need to sort out your issues. I don't feel, however that sexual attraction should be forced. I really don't feel that having to hypnotize yourself into having sexual urges towards someone is even worth it. It's not about being "hot" it's about what's hot to YOU. Your husband is not hot to you. You can't force that kind of thing. What's the point of trying to CREATE something that happens naturally between people? Fix yourself first.

 

Please, go to a therapist and disregard what people are telling you, most of us LS'ers are completely full of sh*t. Some more than others. You need to speak to a professional.

 

 

That's a tough one. Its one thing to rediscover attraction when attraction was there before, but quite another to create attraction where there was none to begin with. I think even rediscovering attraction can be very difficult once its gone.

 

Biological physical attraction has got a good deal to do with brain chemistry, pheromones, and stuff like that - and if that isn't happening, you can't fake it. You can fool your emotions and you can fool other people, but you can't fool your brain. If you are not attracted, you aren't. Period.

 

I DO agree with this statement. I think the fact you NEVER felt any kind of physical attraction (pshaw it if you will, but it's the first building block to most normal relationships) differs your situation greatly from resivoir dog's and TMCM. I don't think it's so much the sexual thrill of the OM just plain SEXUAL THRILL at all. Your husband is a sucky lover-that's both his and your fault though. Most posters are talking about rebuilding, rediscovering etc but that was never there to begin with.

 

I think you're unhappy. I don't really think you know what love IS, to begin with-loving your husband but not being sexually attracted to him, ever is like loving your puppy dog.

 

You shouldn't have to use "props", you shouldn't have to bend yourself into a pretzel, or handcuff anyone to a bedpost. Those are ADDED benefits-not something that should be used to create a non existing carnal urge. You should look at your husband and want to tear his clothes off and cram every protruding item on his body into your orifices.

 

What to do? Don't know. Keep posting.

[Barby]

disregard what people are telling you, most of us LS'ers are completely full of sh*t. Some more than others.

 

 

And stating this does any good how? Don't degrade other poster's opinions it isn't nice, helpful, or necessary.

 

 

I think NuevaVida has been given a lot of insightful advice, I too don't see how you can try and obtain sexual attraction if it isn't there, obviously as you've stated, in your mind's "eye" you still see him as he was no matter how much he's changed!

 

You'd be better off ending the marriage honestly because he doesn't want you to cheat and you probably won't be able to be happy sexually with him...the smart and only true healthy (for both parties) resolution seems to be just ending it with him all together.

[Mr Spock]

Originally posted by Barby

And stating this does any good how? Don't degrade other poster's opinions it isn't nice, helpful, or necessary.

 

 

I think NuevaVida has been given a lot of insightful advice, I too don't see how you can try and obtain sexual attraction if it isn't there, obviously as you've stated, in your mind's "eye" you still see him as he was no matter how much he's changed!

 

You'd be better off ending the marriage honestly because he doesn't want you to cheat and you probably won't be able to be happy sexually with him...the smart and only true healthy (for both parties) resolution seems to be just ending it with him all together.

 

 

LS is no substitution for professional counselling-one can sit there and spell out all the pseudo-psychological information they want to and it's meaningless. She needs to get advice from a professional. Please note I included myself in that sentence.

[Barby]

Professional help isn't a bad suggestion, but if she doesn't see there is a problem..then seeking advice isn't bad either!

[moimeme]

I don't feel, however that sexual attraction should be forced. I really don't feel that having to hypnotize yourself into having sexual urges towards someone is even worth it. It's not about being "hot" it's about what's hot to YOU. Your husband is not hot to you. You can't force that kind of thing. What's the point of trying to CREATE something that happens naturally between people? Fix yourself first.

 

Let's try this again. The brain is the most important sexual organ of all. That one becomes 'naturally' horny about another person does not mean that that other person makes for a great partner. In fact, it's often just the opposite because the hormones befuddle the brain into thinking very unsuitable people might be good partners.

 

OTOH, the brain can also stand in the way of being attracted and there are many, many, MANY people who have developed attraction over time to people they were not initially attracted to. So it's not impossible unless you are mentally resisting it.

 

Your biological urges ought not be the basis of your love or lack thereof. Else any erectile dysfunction or lack of desire would be read as loss of love and people would be leaping into and out of relationships even more than they do.

 

pshaw it if you will, but it's the first building block to most normal relationships

 

Everybody likes to believe that how they operate is THE measurement of normality. It's not the case. The 'first building block' to relationships, as far as I can figure, would be about evenly divided between people who start as friends first and people who start out by being attracted first. Someplace I've read the stats; a very large number of people who get married started out as friends first.

 

So you have the elements of friendship; you admire and like the guy and you like his company. A lot of people can't say the same about they people they're horny for. I still think developing horniness for someone is not that hard if you really want to do it.