Why is the MM always the bad person?

[OldRover]

All,

 

We often hear the OW complaining about not wanting a part time man, or sharing with the BS, and issues about ending things because of the faults of the MM. Where is the blame for the OW?

 

However, not really looking to place blame anywhere, but to have this kind of relationship, BOTH parties certainly know what they are getting into. With this kind of relationship, there's bound to be some hard times. The only thing I could strongly argue for, is to be honest with each other. Spell out what you expect out of the relationship and where it's going. I could argue that the MM should let the OW know what his M is like and why he even decided to have a relationship in the first place. And likewise, the OW should let the MM know why he is her choice. If the MM is heading for a divorce, deal with it and perhaps goals and timelines should be set. If the MM is not heading for a divorce, there should still be an understanding of what each wants and needs are in this relationship.

 

And, in a lot of cases, we really don't know the "whole" story on either side. There's circumstances that make things the way they are.

 

We live with our choices and make choices based on what we feel is best. Live with it.

Edited January 16, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Reference to unattributed threads redacted

[ElectricTangerine]

The main issue with these relationships (MM and single OW) is that the MM lies or selectively discloses important information in order to keep OW's interest in him. He does it out of fear that OW will no longer want to continue the affair if she knows the absolute truth. And it serves his interests better to keep the affair going on, so he continues with lying.

 

The most you can blame OW is that they fell in love with MM without being aware of his situation and not knowing what it means to be an OW. MM is the one juggling 2 women at the same time and keeping up lies, so both parties definitely DO NOT know what they're getting themselves into. There is serious deception going on. I agree with you, if both parties were 100% honest with each other, things would be different. But this is almost never the case. I guess you can blame the OW for not asking the difficult questions at the beginning of the relationship, or being too trusting and naive. But I put most of the blame on the MM telling lies.

[bentleychic]

Both are equally culpable for the A, of course. I think the MM becomes that "bad guy" when he begins lying and/or "future faking". I.e making the A seem like it will be or is something other than it truly is, just to keep the OW around.

[lilmisscantbewrong]

I fully take responsibility for my involvement in the affair. I let my boundaries down and allowed myself to get close to a man who was not my husband. He allowed me to feel so safe I bared my soul to him - something I really have never done - and he really took advantage of that. Told me he loved me and wanted to be with me and led me to believe that he would be with me when the inevitable happened - dday.

 

That is the biggest problem for me - he used me, used my kids, even used my husband - I did fall deeply for him and I foolishly believed him and he abandoned me.

 

Now I see him for what he is - it has taken a very long time. None of this excuses my decision to participate in the affair - I am guilty. I am only expressing how I felt at the time and I honestly would have done anything for him - then - not now.

[BrokenPrincess]

Don't forget a master manipulator...

 

I'm a MOW 7 months past my A and I don't blame my xMM, I still don't think he's a jerk, and I honestly don't think he manipulated me through lying or withholding info, push/pull, future faking, etc. If anything I blame myself because at least he ended it but I still wanted to continue.

[Popsicle]

It doesn't matter who is to blame. The OW could blame herself, I blame myself, but it still has to end because its not good for me.

[vanellope]

I was an exOW, so my talking might a bit bias, but still the truth.

 

my case is also MM with single OW.

 

at the beginning, I know he has kids and married, but he never mension his wife, and spend most of the time with me, even when he go home, I did not check it at beginning but simply think he might seperate or divorce, and later I found out he has so many times for me just because he work at another city.

 

after few months when I deeply fall for him, then he start honest talk about some wife things, I know it's wrong but hard to leave, one is because love him, another is also he always try very hard, talk very sweet to ask you back, and his talking will let you feel, yes, we belong together.

 

I was always conflict, then he will start his future talking, like how he plan our future and how he want to marry me.

 

and when he sure you cannot leave him, then he start tell you, he cannot marry you, he has kids, he need be responsible...

 

it's my story, this MM is 12 older than me, before I met this guy, I never think about love can be manipulate like this. now I am very sure from the beginning he never think about will marry me one day.

 

so that's why I feel I am also part of criminal in this relationship, but from the beginning till few weeks ago, I only love this man and loyal to him, but him? he is the one play whole game.

[ZMM]

And if OW is single, she really isn't cheating IMO. She IS breaking the rules of someone else's marriage. But, some people don't believe in marriage, so in that case they wouldn't be concerned about following the rules of someone else's marriage.

 

So, I agree MM is more culpable. But, I don't think all the stereotypes of MMs can be applied to all cases, maybe most cases or as a general rule. But, everyone is different.

[lilmisscantbewrong]

Don't forget a master manipulator...

 

I'm a MOW 7 months past my A and I don't blame my xMM, I still don't think he's a jerk, and I honestly don't think he manipulated me through lying or withholding info, push/pull, future faking, etc. If anything I blame myself because at least he ended it but I still wanted to continue.

 

BP - I didn't think mine was a manipulator at 7 months out either - it took a very long time to get there - then when I re-read letters he sent to me (I discovered copies I had kept - thought I had thrown them all out) - I could see it. My husband and my friends who read them could see right through it - I couldn't. Now I do - he was trying to manipulate and orchestrate and control the whole thing - even his bs did that for a short period of time between the first dday and the second - it was a true clusterf&&k.

 

But the reality of finally coming to that conclusion still doesn't take away the hurt and pain nor does if change the feelings - but maybe they were for a man I thought I knew and never really did?

[ComingInHot]

OP wrote, "There's circumstances that make things the way they are. "

 

"circumstances"?? or, "Choices"?!

 

I can see only one "circumstance" where an A could be considered (and even then I do disagree). If a spouse is maybe incarserated with a life sentence or admitted with a mental disorder with no cure or becomes a vegetable.... MAYBE then there would be "circumstances" for an A and maybe then more social circle people ie family, friends, collegues, church family would possibly understand, maybe.

 

To me, an A is about a Choice made by both the cheater spouse & the OW/OM. Not "circumstance/s".

[Raena]

I think it depends on your perspective.

 

If you are the OW/OM and you knew your AP was married or otherwise involved then from your own perspective you should take responsibility for your involvement in the situation and place blame on the MM for lying and on yourself for not digging deep enough to find out the truth or for not extricating yourself from the situation when you realized he was lying.

 

If you are the MM/MW then the only person you have to blame is yourself. You should have either tried to fix your marriage or walked away, but not get involved with someone else and lie about it to everyone.

 

If you are the BS, then the blame goes directly onto the WS. It is the WS's choice to lie and cheat. The OW/OM certainly gets some blame here too, but it's mostly the WS because they are the one who made the commitment to you.

[lilmisscantbewrong]

It's true Raena - ones perspective has to be taken into account and we all see things from our own perspective.

[Popsicle]

I don't think OP directed this thread to BS's. I think he was talking to AP's and in reference to how AP's think about MM.

[vanellope]

If you are the MM/MW then the only person you have to blame is yoursel

If you are the BS, then the blame goes directly onto the WS. It is the WS's choice to lie and cheat. The OW/OM certainly gets some blame here too, but it's mostly the WS because they are the one who made the commitment to you.

 

it's so true.

 

but when Dday coming, the most story is BS and MM hold hands together to make whole the wrong thing on OW.

 

BS: you seduce my husband, you are so low, if you contact my husband I will release your video.

MM: you force me to divorce, I never want to marry you, you make my wife so hurt, so now I cannot help you if she want to release the video, it's not my fault.

 

 

sometime I really want to release whole things he give me or write to me to his wife.

[findingnemo]

xMM never lied to me except by omitting key details. He is not a devil, never pretended he would leave. Did I know I was seeing a MM? Of course I did. But I was so inexperienced that I thought xMM (I never even thought to look at the statistics) would leave his M. I still think he should have and probably still should. But there were forces so powerful that in my case, I should never have had the A in the first place.

 

Where my inexperience got me was me not realizing that love is not enough. Love isn't enough to make him leave his two kids in a broken home given that his mother went through the same thing. Love is not enough to make him make his W miserable when she truly loves him and has been there for him through thick and thin. In my culture, you are worthless if you don't put your family first. You can divorce for many valid reasons...but falling in love with someone else isn't a good enough reason to wreck havoc on your family. And also love isn't a good enough reason to be an OW. We basically don't put a lot of emphasis on romantic love. It is considered icing on the cake.

 

I was too naive to see that the odds were against us being together in a meaningful way. And this is what I advise people who are gravitating towards As. Who do you love more? Me? The one you have nothing with or your W, your kids, your extended family, etc. It's almost a no brainer.

[Cinnimon]

it's so true.

 

but when Dday coming, the most story is BS and MM hold hands together to make whole the wrong thing on OW.

 

BS: you seduce my husband, you are so low, if you contact my husband I will release your video.

MM: you force me to divorce, I never want to marry you, you make my wife so hurt, so now I cannot help you if she want to release the video, it's not my fault.

 

 

sometime I really want to release whole things he give me or write to me to his wife.

"You make my wife so hurt"????

Paaaleeeeeaaaaazzzzeeee!!!!!

[rumbleseat]

I my opinion, both the people in the A are to blame, as both are responsible for it's existence, as in any other relationship.

 

Think of it this way. Many ow believe that somehow, the mm isn't a bad guy because on some level, his wife must know he's cheating. How many times have there been posts that fall somewhere along the lines of " she'd have to be a fool not to notice all the hundreds of texts, calls, time online, time away, whatever". So if he is not a bad guy because his w is somehow giving him tacit approval to cheat, then how is he a bad guy if he lies to the ow?

 

Lies to his w, lies to the ow. Different sides of the same coin, but why does one may him a " scumbag" (lies to ow) but the same lies told to his w are okay, rationalized, justified in order to keep her happy and quiet so she doesn't rain On the a parade?

[whichwayisup]

The main issue with these relationships (MM and single OW) is that the MM lies or selectively discloses important information in order to keep OW's interest in him. He does it out of fear that OW will no longer want to continue the affair if she knows the absolute truth. And it serves his interests better to keep the affair going on, so he continues with lying.

 

The most you can blame OW is that they fell in love with MM without being aware of his situation and not knowing what it means to be an OW. MM is the one juggling 2 women at the same time and keeping up lies, so both parties definitely DO NOT know what they're getting themselves into. There is serious deception going on. I agree with you, if both parties were 100% honest with each other, things would be different. But this is almost never the case. I guess you can blame the OW for not asking the difficult questions at the beginning of the relationship, or being too trusting and naive. But I put most of the blame on the MM telling lies.

 

IF the MM never tells his OW he's married, then obviously she is just as innocent as MM's wife, the BS. if the OW knows he's married and still goes ahead and has that affair with him, then she is not innocent, nor a victim. She's choosing to believe a married man who is still living at home with his wife and family, a man who lies and betrays his wife every single day.

[Got it]

I think if both parties are married then they are on the same level and gender has nothing to do with it.

 

But, based on the original question, so from the take of the OP/OW, I think that the MP is seen as wrong if they are lying or future faking. It doesn't mean the OP is a victim because if they are aware that their MP is a MP then they have some general idea about an affair framework. Which is why it is stated look at actions and ignore words. What is the person showing you?

 

So when he and I broke up, while I was very sad and disappointed I didn't see him as a bad guy. I owned my involvement in it and knew it was a gamble.

[MissBee]

All,

 

In reading a bunch of threads in The Other Man/Woman, we ofter see a situation where the MM is the bad guy, gutless, creap, lowlife, etc., etc.?

 

We often hear the OW complaining about not wanting a part time man, or sharing with the BS, and issues about ending things because of the faults of the MM. Where is the blame for the OW?

 

However, not really looking to place blame anywhere, but to have this kind of relationship, BOTH parties certainly know what they are getting into. With this kind of relationship, there's bound to be some hard times. The only thing I could strongly argue for, is to be honest with each other. Spell out what you expect out of the relationship and where it's going. I could argue that the MM should let the OW know what his M is like and why he even decided to have a relationship in the first place. And likewise, the OW should let the MM know why he is her choice. If the MM is heading for a divorce, deal with it and perhaps goals and timelines should be set. If the MM is not heading for a divorce, there should still be an understanding of what each wants and needs are in this relationship.

 

And, in a lot of cases, we really don't know the "whole" story on either side. There's circumstances that make things the way they are.

 

We live with our choices and make choices based on what we feel is best. Live with it.

 

An OW who knows the MM is indeed married has definitely chosen this situation for themselves and signed up for all the drama it often entails, so it is indeed unfair in such cases to make it seem like the MM has forced it on you and he is the only party in the wrong. However, some MM go above and beyond in terms of their deceit to both OW/BS and in those cases I get how OW feel like he is a creep.

 

But to begin with, if a man is married and wants an A, the likelihood that you will find out that things aren't as they seem is pretty high and it's not a great bet; this is logical. But logic usually flies out the window as more feelings get involved and in the face of red flags some OW want to believe things are different and that certain things are true and it will work out and he is honest and so on and so forth and so after you've believed that and then find out otherwise, they're angry at him, but later many get angry at themselves too and can admit how they actually ignored the obvious. So I think it's just a normal part of the breakup/hurt process where you blame the other person first before looking at yourself.

[AlwaysGrowing]

For most an affair is uncharted territory in their relationship experience.

 

Yes, people should at least know from other peoples affairs the likelihood of it working out, we all like to think we are the exception.

 

 

I do not necessarily believe that the married AP intentionally misleads. In the moment, they actually believe what they say, because the scope of what they are saying has not seen the cold, harsh reality of light.

 

 

I also believe it is how one views the outcome. On this site we have XAP,XMP, that hold very different views on their AP.

 

 

If one, only looks at the lies and points to that....then to me, they are saying the affair itself was okay...it was " it didn't end up like I wanted" was the reason why they are angry at the married AP.

 

 

Then there are those, that look at the affair itself. Those seem to not hold anger towards the AP, because it was the affair itself that they view as the issue and then hold themselves accountable for their role in it.

[ladydesigner]

OP wrote, "There's circumstances that make things the way they are. "

 

"circumstances"?? or, "Choices"?!

 

I can see only one "circumstance" where an A could be considered (and even then I do disagree). If a spouse is maybe incarserated with a life sentence or admitted with a mental disorder with no cure or becomes a vegetable.... MAYBE then there would be "circumstances" for an A and maybe then more social circle people ie family, friends, collegues, church family would possibly understand, maybe.

 

To me, an A is about a Choice made by both the cheater spouse & the OW/OM. Not "circumstance/s".

 

CIH I always love your posts and just wanted to highlight the bolded and just how very true that statement is. I have been both a fMOW and BS and cheating is most definitely a choice by both parties unless the OW/OM is unaware the WS is even M'd. Great post!

[OldRover]

OP wrote, "There's circumstances that make things the way they are. "

 

"circumstances"?? or, "Choices"?!

 

I can see only one "circumstance" where an A could be considered (and even then I do disagree). If a spouse is maybe incarserated with a life sentence or admitted with a mental disorder with no cure or becomes a vegetable.... MAYBE then there would be "circumstances" for an A and maybe then more social circle people ie family, friends, collegues, church family would possibly understand, maybe.

 

To me, an A is about a Choice made by both the cheater spouse & the OW/OM. Not "circumstance/s".

 

Coming,

 

Your right, and a good post. The message was that circumstances created the opportunity for the choice.... Sure, with an A, there's always a choice.... we "DO" choose to be in an affair. While I'm sure it can seem like it just happens, there's enough opportunity to make a choice.

 

As for circumstances that may "justify" an A... that could be argued forever... and your example is only a start. More than likely, there's something missing in the marriage to promote an A.

 

The "justification", if any, will most likely be related to the missing parts. And I'd bet that there's something missing in the OWs life, too. I'm sure an unattached guy would be a better catch.

 

However, the point of the original message is that it seems like the MM is often the bad guy, and I'm not sure that's always the case. Who has the most to lose? Who has the highest risk?

 

They both take some risks, and both get some rewards. Just like dating, there's always the chance of failure and heart break. However, with an A, there's probably one more level of complexity with more challenges. I'll admit, the MM probably has more things to lie about, but doesn't always lie.

 

I could argue for the MM/OW to be truthful to each other, look closely at the risk vs. benefits, and hopefully look for a solution.

[findingnemo]

For most an affair is uncharted territory in their relationship experience.

 

Yes, people should at least know from other peoples affairs the likelihood of it working out, we all like to think we are the exception.

 

 

I do not necessarily believe that the married AP intentionally misleads. In the moment, they actually believe what they say, because the scope of what they are saying has not seen the cold, harsh reality of light.

 

 

I also believe it is how one views the outcome. On this site we have XAP,XMP, that hold very different views on their AP.

 

 

If one, only looks at the lies and points to that....then to me, they are saying the affair itself was okay...it was " it didn't end up like I wanted" was the reason why they are angry at the married AP.

 

 

Then there are those, that look at the affair itself. Those seem to not hold anger towards the AP, because it was the affair itself that they view as the issue and then hold themselves accountable for their role in it.

 

I couldn't agree more. At least for me I see the A as the problem. The guilt, the angst, the frustration was all a result of having an A with xMM. It was not the result of me loving him or him loving me. There were times I was mad at him because it seemed to me that he was holding all the cards. I thought all he had to do was leave his M. As I grew older and more exposed, I realized that I too held the cards. In fact it was I that held ALL the cards really. There was absolutely no reason I should have been suffering in an A if I hadn't chosen to do so. I was the single one with choices. He could argue that he was already M with the attending responsibilities but what was my argument?

 

I also believe that many people who haven't been in an A are unaware of the A dynamics...at least as far as in their particular circumstances. I had never really given much thought to As prior to getting into one. I was 100% anti-As and my main argument was that it was immoral. Beyond that I didn't know how much it hurts the BS, the kids, the entire families of the WS and even the AP. That kind of damage can't be blamed entirely on the MP.

[findingnemo]

Coming,

 

Your right, and a good post. The message was that circumstances created the opportunity for the choice.... Sure, with an A, there's always a choice.... we "DO" choose to be in an affair. While I'm sure it can seem like it just happens, there's enough opportunity to make a choice.

 

As for circumstances that may "justify" an A... that could be argued forever... and your example is only a start. More than likely, there's something missing in the marriage to promote an A.

 

The "justification", if any, will most likely be related to the missing parts. And I'd bet that there's something missing in the OWs life, too. I'm sure an unattached guy would be a better catch.

 

However, the point of the original message is that it seems like the MM is often the bad guy, and I'm not sure that's always the case. Who has the most to lose? Who has the highest risk?

 

They both take some risks, and both get some rewards. Just like dating, there's always the chance of failure and heart break. However, with an A, there's probably one more level of complexity with more challenges. I'll admit, the MM probably has more things to lie about, but doesn't always lie.

 

I could argue for the MM/OW to be truthful to each other, look closely at the risk vs. benefits, and hopefully look for a solution.

 

Sometimes the truth is hard to deal with. How can an MM be 100% truthful with the OW? I can't imagine how that would work especially if the MM really wants the OW in his life. Take, for example, the question of how often the MM sleeps with his W? Imagine an MM telling a potential OW that he has sex three times a week with his W. Hmmm....

 

Imagine the MM telling a potential OW that a few nights ago he took his W to a romantic dinner and told her that he is very grateful for everything she does and that she will always be the woman for him.

 

Then there are the things men say when they are making love. You know...those special things that should only apply to you. I can't imagine the MM telling the potential OW that she drives him crazy, or that she is the sweetest thing...after his W of course.

 

OWs would also have quite a hard time being 100% truthful. Which OW has been known to tell the MM that she is feeling tired and stressed today and can't be bothered to hear about his family problems (especially issues with the W) which in her view are self-imposed? Which OW could openly tell the MM that regardless of who is sick, who has a parent-teacher conference, what mutual friends have invited MM and W to dinner tonight, she needs MM right now and to hell with everybody else? None. And yet they sometimes feel like that. It just isn't cool to be 100% truthful especially when the truth seems selfish and you know/knew the man was M.

 

So if having a peaceful A may be a result of truthfulness, I'm afraid there won't be any of those. The first questions a potential OW would ask the MM is this: If you are happy and content in your M, if you have no reason to leave, if your W is very good to you, and if you love her more than any other woman in the world, why the heck are you talking to me?

 

In my experience, Affairs = Complexity = Lies = A double life for at least one partner. The other partner must ignore a million red flags, be as flexible as a contortionist when it comes to his/her boundaries and finally learn what to say and what not to say to keep the peace. But maybe I'm jaded...