Why is the MM always the bad person?

[lilmisscantbewrong]

Coming,

 

Your right, and a good post. The message was that circumstances created the opportunity for the choice.... Sure, with an A, there's always a choice.... we "DO" choose to be in an affair. While I'm sure it can seem like it just happens, there's enough opportunity to make a choice.

 

As for circumstances that may "justify" an A... that could be argued forever... and your example is only a start. More than likely, there's something missing in the marriage to promote an A.

 

The "justification", if any, will most likely be related to the missing parts. And I'd bet that there's something missing in the OWs life, too. I'm sure an unattached guy would be a better catch.

 

However, the point of the original message is that it seems like the MM is often the bad guy, and I'm not sure that's always the case. Who has the most to lose? Who has the highest risk?

 

They both take some risks, and both get some rewards. Just like dating, there's always the chance of failure and heart break. However, with an A, there's probably one more level of complexity with more challenges. I'll admit, the MM probably has more things to lie about, but doesn't always lie.

 

I could argue for the MM/OW to be truthful to each other, look closely at the risk vs. benefits, and hopefully look for a solution.

 

and what would be the solution? Is this what you are after? My xmom was always looking for a solution - a way to work it out, make it work - but in the end it resulted in me being thrown under the bus. Maybe that was a "solution" he didn't share with me

[Popsicle]

xMM never lied to me except by omitting key details. He is not a devil, never pretended he would leave. Did I know I was seeing a MM? Of course I did. But I was so inexperienced that I thought xMM (I never even thought to look at the statistics) would leave his M. I still think he should have and probably still should. But there were forces so powerful that in my case, I should never have had the A in the first place.

 

Where my inexperience got me was me not realizing that love is not enough. Love isn't enough to make him leave his two kids in a broken home given that his mother went through the same thing. Love is not enough to make him make his W miserable when she truly loves him and has been there for him through thick and thin. In my culture, you are worthless if you don't put your family first. You can divorce for many valid reasons...but falling in love with someone else isn't a good enough reason to wreck havoc on your family. And also love isn't a good enough reason to be an OW. We basically don't put a lot of emphasis on romantic love. It is considered icing on the cake.

 

I was too naive to see that the odds were against us being together in a meaningful way. And this is what I advise people who are gravitating towards As. Who do you love more? Me? The one you have nothing with or your W, your kids, your extended family, etc. It's almost a no brainer.

 

This was exactly my experience and how I feel. You explained it so well.

[Fluttershy]

I know a MM. He is either a master manipulator or his wife is insane. This man has cheated on her multiple times and is currently doing so. I was at a christmas party this year and the wife had to leave early. As soon as she was gone he wqs feeling up this other girl. Like hands on ass, flirting, ect. This behaviour has become so common place with him people have just started ignoring it. When his wife was told she accuses the messenger of being out to get her husband, ect. It is obviously ger choice to stay with him for whatever reason but he has managed to break a few hearts with his flirting and probably more. It is sad and very much the elephant in the room. These girls are usually in their early twenties and completely swept of their feet by his flattery and charm. He is completely to blame for his behaviour and because he is near his 40s I believe most people put more blame on him. Personaly, I have lost sympathy for his wife as she chooses to remain with him even though she has no children and is the one that supports them. I don't get it but her reasons are her own.

[lilmisscantbewrong]

I know a MM. He is either a master manipulator or his wife is insane. This man has cheated on her multiple times and is currently doing so. I was at a christmas party this year and the wife had to leave early. As soon as she was gone he wqs feeling up this other girl. Like hands on ass, flirting, ect. This behaviour has become so common place with him people have just started ignoring it. When his wife was told she accuses the messenger of being out to get her husband, ect. It is obviously ger choice to stay with him for whatever reason but he has managed to break a few hearts with his flirting and probably more. It is sad and very much the elephant in the room. These girls are usually in their early twenties and completely swept of their feet by his flattery and charm. He is completely to blame for his behaviour and because he is near his 40s I believe most people put more blame on him. Personaly, I have lost sympathy for his wife as she chooses to remain with him even though she has no children and is the one that supports them. I don't get it but her reasons are her own.

 

My dad's boss was like this when I was young. I remember being in my dad's office at about age 16 and I was in a cover up because I had just come from my job as a life guard and I was leaving my dad a note and his boss came into the office and behind me and started putting his hands on me. I was so uncomfortable but yet I didn't know what to do - I excused myself and got out of there. I actually never told my dad about this until a few years ago - right after the blow up of the affair.

 

At any rate, this man had multiple affairs and his wife was a sweet, sweet lady and put up with it for a very long time - while their daughters were young. When they were old enough, she left him and took him for almost everything. She was a very smart woman - she was biding her time until she felt it was best for her and her children and when she was able to support herself plus take half of everything.

 

Sometimes it is a matter of time until the wife says no more.

[Fluttershy]

 

Sometimes it is a matter of time until the wife says no more.

 

I'd believe that if she wasn't the bread winner and they had kids. The fact is she has got super angry at anyone who has tried to give her a heads up. And not in a "mind your own business way" but a "you are lying because you have something against my husband"

 

I do think that one day he is going to screw the wrong OW and get a bunny broiler that makes the existence of an affair beyond deniable. As far as I know only one OW told on him and she told that OW she was lying to try to steal her husband.

[heylovey22]

I don't think all MM/OW are terrible people at all.

 

In fact, sometimes they're the sweetest, most caring people ever. I get it, trust me I do, but if you look back in history humans have had a history of being polygamous, whether we label it "right" or "wrong" may be against human nature.. who knows.

 

At the end of the day we are ALL human. We all have needs and wants and fear and FEELINGS. My MM is one of the most genuine, sweetest, caring people I know. His friends will say it, I've seen it, and I've felt it. Even if he hides details, he doesn't lie to me. At worst he will even say "I don't want to talk about it/It has nothing to do with us" before he will ever try to lie. We've both been honest from the start.

 

He doesn't want a damn thing from me. We get the chance to sleep together once every two months, maybe. Most of the time he will choose dinner or seeing me for five minutes/talking on the phone if he can. It's always been a friendship, before it started and stronger within.

 

I think we label MM/OW "bad" because of legal terms. Words such as "married", "cheating", etc... but how about being human. Flawed humans at that. At the end of the day the heart wants what it wants. I think personal boundaries, beliefs, and feelings are far more important than any label/title. I also believe it to be very difficult for two people to stay together for many many years without growing somewhat apart and changing within themselves... that's life and human nature.

 

Just my two cents. Of course there are terrible MM/OW... but those are probably just terrible "people", married or not.

Edited December 24, 2013 by heylovey22

[bentleychic]

Show me someone that claims to be perfect and I'll show you a liar, eh? No one can ever say that they have never sinned, nor that they've never done something that they regret.

[Amelia81]

OldRover I've seen your comments about this before and now you have started a thread, are you a MM trying to relieve some of your own guilt?

 

I am an xOW, single at the time, and I hold myself fully responsible for putting myself in a bad situation and believing in a guy who was clearly capable of lying. I didn't protect myself and I caused myself a lot of hurt and pain by trusting him.

 

However, I was not betraying or lying to my own partner, I was single.

 

Who is more to blame for betrayal and lies to BS/family? Surely the married 'person' (note not aimed at men but the person who has supposedly committed for life and in love with BS). That person is responsible for their relationship and is committing the ultimate betrayal, not the single OW/OM (unless of course they are friends with BS and betraying a friendship)

[OldRover]

I don't think all MM/OW are terrible people at all.

 

In fact, sometimes they're the sweetest, most caring people ever. I get it, trust me I do, but if you look back in history humans have had a history of being polygamous, whether we label it "right" or "wrong" may be against human nature.. who knows.

 

At the end of the day we are ALL human. We all have needs and wants and fear and FEELINGS. My MM is one of the most genuine, sweetest, caring people I know. His friends will say it, I've seen it, and I've felt it. Even if he hides details, he doesn't lie to me. At worst he will even say "I don't want to talk about it/It has nothing to do with us" before he will ever try to lie. We've both been honest from the start.

 

He doesn't want a damn thing from me. We get the chance to sleep together once every two months, maybe. Most of the time he will choose dinner or seeing me for five minutes/talking on the phone if he can. It's always been a friendship, before it started and stronger within.

 

I think we label MM/OW "bad" because of legal terms. Words such as "married", "cheating", etc... but how about being human. Flawed humans at that. At the end of the day the heart wants what it wants. I think personal boundaries, beliefs, and feelings are far more important than any label/title. I also believe it to be very difficult for two people to stay together for many many years without growing somewhat apart and changing within themselves... that's life and human nature.

 

Just my two cents. Of course there are terrible MM/OW... but those are probably just terrible "people", married or not.

 

 

HeyLovely,

 

Good post, there's nothing wrong with being human.

[OldRover]

OldRover I've seen your comments about this before and now you have started a thread, are you a MM trying to relieve some of your own guilt?

 

I am an xOW, single at the time, and I hold myself fully responsible for putting myself in a bad situation and believing in a guy who was clearly capable of lying. I didn't protect myself and I caused myself a lot of hurt and pain by trusting him.

 

However, I was not betraying or lying to my own partner, I was single.

 

Who is more to blame for betrayal and lies to BS/family? Surely the married 'person' (note not aimed at men but the person who has supposedly committed for life and in love with BS). That person is responsible for their relationship and is committing the ultimate betrayal, not the single OW/OM (unless of course they are friends with BS and betraying a friendship)

 

Amelia,

 

I have two good buddies that are in As.....

 

One, in particular has a difficult situation which I will not post in detail, but there's been issues on both sides of the marriage. The W moves out and moves into a home with the new BF and tells him to go to heXX. After she realized that it isn't working cries to come back with significant threats to have him take her back.... and he does, partly because of her cries, and partly because of dependents... and he's miserable..... and for now, has no solution. So, what can he do? He's asked me for help, not that I'm qualified, but don't know what to say other than I'll certainly give him talk time to discuss things. I'd like to see him come to some solution... but not sure what the answer is.

 

Second guy I'm not going to discuss because of a promise I made.

 

Actually I have three friends... but the third has solved his issues... divorced, wife gone, and he's happy and free.

 

However, at times, all three were labeled as complete jerks, and totally bad people..... and I just don't believe that's fair.

 

Personally, I don't have any issues or guilt, maybe I need some <g>......

[thecharade]

The MM often knows what he wants, what his wife wants, and what his lover wants. He is the king. If you are sure you cannot or will not D, then why continue? You don't care that your W will be crushed? And your lover devastated? No, you don't.

 

MM don't mind hurting everyone. That is why they are to blame.

 

I would never have hurt him. Ever.

[vanellope]

I don't think all MM/OW are terrible people at all.

 

In fact, sometimes they're the sweetest, most caring people ever. I get it, trust me I do, but if you look back in history humans have had a history of being polygamous, whether we label it "right" or "wrong" may be against human nature.. who knows.

 

At the end of the day we are ALL human. We all have needs and wants and fear and FEELINGS. My MM is one of the most genuine, sweetest, caring people I know. His friends will say it, I've seen it, and I've felt it. Even if he hides details, he doesn't lie to me. At worst he will even say "I don't want to talk about it/It has nothing to do with us" before he will ever try to lie. We've both been honest from the start.

 

He doesn't want a damn thing from me. We get the chance to sleep together once every two months, maybe. Most of the time he will choose dinner or seeing me for five minutes/talking on the phone if he can. It's always been a friendship, before it started and stronger within.

 

I think we label MM/OW "bad" because of legal terms. Words such as "married", "cheating", etc... but how about being human. Flawed humans at that. At the end of the day the heart wants what it wants. I think personal boundaries, beliefs, and feelings are far more important than any label/title. I also believe it to be very difficult for two people to stay together for many many years without growing somewhat apart and changing within themselves... that's life and human nature.

 

Just my two cents. Of course there are terrible MM/OW... but those are probably just terrible "people", married or not.

 

your MM is very lucky that he found you,

if both of you and MM can hold this life attitude, I think your relationship can be as long as it can.

 

If the life attitude is no family and no kids, and just enjoy the love with this person, then I think you can try to be friends with his wife and carry on like this forever.

[OldRover]

The MM often knows what he wants, what his wife wants, and what his lover wants. He is the king. If you are sure you cannot or will not D, then why continue? You don't care that your W will be crushed? And your lover devastated? No, you don't.

 

MM don't mind hurting everyone. That is why they are to blame.

 

I would never have hurt him. Ever.

 

THECHARADE,

 

Totally disagree. Not all MM don't mind hurting people. Some really care, and they unjustly get the blame you're talking about.....

[lilmisscantbewrong]

THECHARADE,

 

Totally disagree. Not all MM don't mind hurting people. Some really care, and they unjustly get the blame you're talking about.....

 

Unless you are the xmom or you know the other story (from the xmow/xow) you really don't know anything. You only know what they tell you.

 

I'm confused as to why you don't discuss the second one? No one knows you here or your "friends."

 

Maybe we can help you shed light on your friend.

 

All these three friends were om in affairs?

Edited December 24, 2013 by lilmisscantbewrong

[flowingmane]

I'm confused as to why you don't discuss the second one? No one knows you here or your "friends."

 

QUOTE]

 

He made a promise. There are things about my MM I absolutely will not post on a public forum, anonymously or otherwise. I respect his honesty and his commitment to keep a secret. So few do.

[vanellope]

THECHARADE,

 

Totally disagree. Not all MM don't mind hurting people. Some really care, and they unjustly get the blame you're talking about.....

 

I was a OW and after the affairs,

 

I totally agree what TC say, see the truth here,

MM often know that he is not going to divorce with his wife at beginning,

MM know that his wife are not willing in divorce,

MM know that the single OW want to marry.

 

so if he do mind hurting people and care other, why he choose to start this affair? why he pretend he is half single in beginning and try to pursue the other woman?

[flowingmane]

Well, site won't let me go back and edit. Sorry for sloppy quote

[sweet_pea]

The MM often knows what he wants, what his wife wants, and what his lover wants. He is the king. If you are sure you cannot or will not D, then why continue? You don't care that your W will be crushed? And your lover devastated? No, you don't.

 

MM don't mind hurting everyone. That is why they are to blame.

 

I would never have hurt him. Ever.

 

Never mind. 10 characters!

Edited December 24, 2013 by sweet_pea

[lilmisscantbewrong]

THECHARADE,

 

Totally disagree. Not all MM don't mind hurting people. Some really care, and they unjustly get the blame you're talking about.....

 

My xmom might have cared but in the end he didn't - he ran over me.

[lilmisscantbewrong]

Sorry the point of the thread was why mm were painted to be the bad guys - he isn't really explaining why his three "friends" he has are not "bad". He hasn't made a case for them at all.

[lilmisscantbewrong]

I'm confused as to why you don't discuss the second one? No one knows you here or your "friends."

 

QUOTE]

 

He made a promise. There are things about my MM I absolutely will not post on a public forum, anonymously or otherwise. I respect his honesty and his commitment to keep a secret. So few do.

 

Are you in the affair still? If so, this is why you won't.

[flowingmane]

 

Are you in the affair still? If so, this is why you won't.

 

I never will. I don't even post things publicly about previous non-A relationships I was in that were private between the two of us, even though I will happily call one of those guys every 4 letter word in the book. A promise is a promise, and something between two people said in confidence is a matter of personal integrity to me. I would know, doesn't matter if no one else does.

[lilmisscantbewrong]

 

I never will. I don't even post things publicly about previous non-A relationships I was in that were private between the two of us, even though I will happily call one of those guys every 4 letter word in the book. A promise is a promise, and something between two people said in confidence is a matter of personal integrity to me. I would know, doesn't matter if no one else does.

 

Are you still in the affair?

[flowingmane]

Yes. 100% committed.

[lilmisscantbewrong]

Then I hate to say it but you aren't in a place where you can really comment on this - yet - you will be however.