Why is the MM always the bad person?

[flowingmane]

Then I hate to say it but you aren't in a place where you can really comment on this - yet - you will be however.

 

I respectfully beg your pardon? My relationship status has nothing to do whether someone should discuss a friend's relationship after a promise not to do so. I'm not sure I'm following your train of logic here. What any given MM does is not what I am commenting on, merely the request made of OldRover.

[ComingInHot]

Old Rover,

So, I get why you don't think your buddies are jerks. It could be they behave in honorable ways in every other aspect of their lives. Good for them. Sincerely*

 

Thing is, and I use myself as an example, I have had days where I have behaved with the utmost dignity and honor to almost everyone who crossed my path. Save 1 or 2 people. To those people, I behaved poorly. I treated them with disrespect and callousness.

Ask the people I came across what I'm like and they'll tell honestly, I'm an incredible person. Ask the people who I treated like Crap and they'll tell you honestly that I'm a b*tch.

 

Point is during the time I was acting with kindness, those people receiving that treatment thought me kind while other people thought me a Crap person because I was acting crappie to them.

 

My H Was a HUGE douche for cheating on me. Is that all he is? No. But he most certainly was during that time. And Not just to me but to exOW as well and I KNOW she'd agree if she were here now that she has a happy life that's all her own (I Hope)*.

[heylovey22]

your MM is very lucky that he found you,

if both of you and MM can hold this life attitude, I think your relationship can be as long as it can.

 

If the life attitude is no family and no kids, and just enjoy the love with this person, then I think you can try to be friends with his wife and carry on like this forever.

 

Thank you. He's said that many times which I love. I pride myself on being very loving, caring, and open-minded. We really are all human. On another note, his wife will never know about me, and though this is the mind frame we both have, he seems to be messing with me lately. Could just be a bad time. We will see. Thanks again.

[Summer Breeze]

It's the lying and trying to keep an OW invested that makes them the bad guy. Obviously, they are being the bad guy to their wives but that isn't the question being asked.

 

No matter how good a human's intentions are going into a R there's always change and growth that comes naturally as the R deepens. What makes a M happy in the beginning can make it a misery at the end. What is agreed with a FWB R is often cause for heartache for one party or the other. We see things how they are but our humanity makes them change.

 

To expect someone to enter an R and never have any need or want for it to develop is unrealistic. Not the way we're built.

 

I haven't read many responses to this OP so sorry if I've repeated someone elses thoughts.

 

All,

 

In reading a bunch of threads in The Other Man/Woman, we ofter see a situation where the MM is the bad guy, gutless, creap, lowlife, etc., etc.?

 

We often hear the OW complaining about not wanting a part time man, or sharing with the BS, and issues about ending things because of the faults of the MM. Where is the blame for the OW?

 

However, not really looking to place blame anywhere, but to have this kind of relationship, BOTH parties certainly know what they are getting into. With this kind of relationship, there's bound to be some hard times. The only thing I could strongly argue for, is to be honest with each other. Spell out what you expect out of the relationship and where it's going. I could argue that the MM should let the OW know what his M is like and why he even decided to have a relationship in the first place. And likewise, the OW should let the MM know why he is her choice. If the MM is heading for a divorce, deal with it and perhaps goals and timelines should be set. If the MM is not heading for a divorce, there should still be an understanding of what each wants and needs are in this relationship.

 

And, in a lot of cases, we really don't know the "whole" story on either side. There's circumstances that make things the way they are.

 

We live with our choices and make choices based on what we feel is best. Live with it.

[Fluttershy]

I don't think the MM is always the ONLY bad person... But if you describe lying, cheating, sometimes stealing money from his family, deception, manipulation, future faking, cowardess, betrayal nd breaking ones word as ba things. And then choose to continue doing them for an extended period of time... During that time you are a bad person. Especially to those you betray (children, wives and OW)

 

Don't want to be considered a bad person? Don't continually do bad things. It is not rocket science.

[krazikat]

It's the lying and trying to keep an OW invested that makes them the bad guy. Obviously, they are being the bad guy to their wives but that isn't the question being asked.

 

No matter how good a human's intentions are going into a R there's always change and growth that comes naturally as the R deepens. What makes a M happy in the beginning can make it a misery at the end. What is agreed with a FWB R is often cause for heartache for one party or the other. We see things how they are but our humanity makes them change.

 

To expect someone to enter an R and never have any need or want for it to develop is unrealistic. Not the way we're built.

 

I haven't read many responses to this OP so sorry if I've repeated someone elses thoughts.

 

So if the om/w becomes upset because their own desires have changed regarding the affair, but the MP has remained the same...how does that make the MP a jerk/creep/liar/jackass when they have not changed?

 

I am just trying to understand your thought process here, because when you say " To expect someone to enter an R and never have any need or want for it to develop is unrealistic. Not the way we're built." I dont understand how that would make MP a bad guy/gal to the ap if they were completely upfront about their expectations/what they could give and if it is in fact the om/w who decided they needed more. Wouldnt that make the om/w the one who potentially mislead the mp into a false sense of comfort? Again, not trying to say that is what you meant, I am simply trying to understand...

 

Also, isnt the mp lying to their bs to keep them invested? Ow knows better than anyone else the mp capacity to lie to their partner to keep them attached...if the ap is wanting a relationship with an honest person, then why have a relationship with a proven dishonest person and then cry foul when they are...surprise....dishonest?

[stillafool]

All,

 

In reading a bunch of threads in The Other Man/Woman, we ofter see a situation where the MM is the bad guy, gutless, creap, lowlife, etc., etc.?

 

We often hear the OW complaining about not wanting a part time man, or sharing with the BS, and issues about ending things because of the faults of the MM. Where is the blame for the OW?

 

However, not really looking to place blame anywhere, but to have this kind of relationship, BOTH parties certainly know what they are getting into. With this kind of relationship, there's bound to be some hard times. The only thing I could strongly argue for, is to be honest with each other. Spell out what you expect out of the relationship and where it's going. I could argue that the MM should let the OW know what his M is like and why he even decided to have a relationship in the first place. And likewise, the OW should let the MM know why he is her choice. If the MM is heading for a divorce, deal with it and perhaps goals and timelines should be set. If the MM is not heading for a divorce, there should still be an understanding of what each wants and needs are in this relationship.

 

And, in a lot of cases, we really don't know the "whole" story on either side. There's circumstances that make things the way they are.

 

We live with our choices and make choices based on what we feel is best. Live with it.

 

The OW is as much to blame as the MM. Unless of course she had no idea the man is married. I think if an OW is upset that the MM tells lies to keep her around; what in the world does she expect? He lies to his wife why wouldn't he lie to her? When you knowingly involve yourself with someone else's husband you basically have to take what you can get or end the relationship. Why would an OW expect a MM to be more honest with her than his own wife.

[ComingInHot]

Stillafool, I'm going to use what I've read on LS and pretend to answer like I'M the OW...

 

Okay so my mm has no reason to lie to me because I already know he's M'd. We share Everything. I'm the one person he feels comfortable to confide in, I men it was he who came to me with his issues about his W and life that he couldn't go to her with. That's how our A started in the first place, trust and attraction. He loves me more and wouldn't hurt me with lies. He only lies to His W because he doesn't want to hurt her or the kids. When we are finally together the lies will all be over with. *

 

Is that about right??

CIH*

[ElectricTangerine]

Stillafool, I'm going to use what I've read on LS and pretend to answer like I'M the OW...

 

Okay so my mm has no reason to lie to me because I already know he's M'd. We share Everything. I'm the one person he feels comfortable to confide in, I men it was he who came to me with his issues about his W and life that he couldn't go to her with. That's how our A started in the first place, trust and attraction. He loves me more and wouldn't hurt me with lies. He only lies to His W because he doesn't want to hurt her or the kids. When we are finally together the lies will all be over with. *

 

Is that about right??

CIH*

 

I'd say that's about right, yeah. He may be a liar to others, but never to OW. OW is so special, she's what he was looking for all these years, she's the only one that truly knows him. She's the first person in his life he truly felt comfortable with and opened up completely. OW tend to fully believe in these fairy tales.

[ComingInHot]

ET, and it's these tales that mm spin that make them "the bad guy"!

[OldRover]

The OW is as much to blame as the MM. Unless of course she had no idea the man is married. I think if an OW is upset that the MM tells lies to keep her around; what in the world does she expect? He lies to his wife why wouldn't he lie to her? When you knowingly involve yourself with someone else's husband you basically have to take what you can get or end the relationship. Why would an OW expect a MM to be more honest with her than his own wife.

 

Stillafool,

 

Lots of reasons... the M might have been broken down years ago and the MM feels no obligation to be honest if the BS hasn't been either. The start of a new relationship allows one to be honest from the start, and if it's held up on both sides, perhaps it could work out fine, and the old M ended.

That can happen.

[OldRover]

I'd say that's about right, yeah. He may be a liar to others, but never to OW. OW is so special, she's what he was looking for all these years, she's the only one that truly knows him. She's the first person in his life he truly felt comfortable with and opened up completely. OW tend to fully believe in these fairy tales.

 

ET,

 

Maybe.... but not always. There are some MM that don't lie to their OW. They have no reason to lie.

[ElectricTangerine]

ET, and it's these tales that mm spin that make them "the bad guy"!

 

Yes... Deceiving women and making up stories to keep them hanging on makes MM "the bad guy". Taking advantage of naive women for your own pleasure is wrong. Then again, OW tend to be too trusting and naive. Ignoring red flags. Hearing only his words and being blind to his actions. People can only treat you bad if you allow it. There is guilt on the OW too for deciding to accept maltreatment.

 

ET,

 

Maybe.... but not always. There are some MM that don't lie to their OW. They have no reason to lie.

 

Of course... Things are rarely black and white and it's not possible to lump every affair relationship on the same pile. It depends on the individuals involved, different circumstances... What I described is just one of the possible scenarios, but in my opinion, it's very common. That's why you have so many OW on this board who were told by MM that they're "the one". It can be the determining factor why OW is willing to tolerate so much.

[ZMM]

ET,

 

Maybe.... but not always. There are some MM that don't lie to their OW. They have no reason to lie.

 

I have never lied to my OW, she knew/knows everything. And she is definitely not naive.

[krazikat]

I have never lied to my OW, she knew/knows everything. And she is definitely not naive.

 

As states above, it was a general statement, and one that applied to most. That's great that you have been honest to at least one person.

 

So free your wife and be with your ow. Just because you don't lie to your ow at this time doesn't mean your not a liar or a coward. Until you start being an honest person, you are still falling in the realm of being a bad guy. What are you going to do about that?

[lilmisscantbewrong]

Stillafool,

 

Lots of reasons... the M might have been broken down years ago and the MM feels no obligation to be honest if the BS hasn't been either. The start of a new relationship allows one to be honest from the start, and if it's held up on both sides, perhaps it could work out fine, and the old M ended.

That can happen.

 

I suppose it is possible, but I believe it is very rare. I believed my xmom, hook, line and sinker. I was completely honest with him about how I felt and what I wanted at the time (although I wasn't honest with my husband at that point). He fed me bull. He could not stand when it got to be too much and he threw me under the bus and left me standing alone to face everything while he ran with his tail between his legs. At that point, there wasn't anything else for me to do but to lay it all out - and I did. He did not. He couldn't take it.

 

OldRover - what is your experience with OM being truthful to their OW? What example do you have that you can share? Forgive me, but I just can't buy it...

[OldRover]

I suppose it is possible, but I believe it is very rare. I believed my xmom, hook, line and sinker. I was completely honest with him about how I felt and what I wanted at the time (although I wasn't honest with my husband at that point). He fed me bull. He could not stand when it got to be too much and he threw me under the bus and left me standing alone to face everything while he ran with his tail between his legs. At that point, there wasn't anything else for me to do but to lay it all out - and I did. He did not. He couldn't take it.

 

OldRover - what is your experience with OM being truthful to their OW? What example do you have that you can share? Forgive me, but I just can't buy it...

 

Lil,

 

I know a two very close personal friends in the above relationship that are totally honest with their OW, and in the M was lost previous. So far it's working well, and I wish them the best. One is in a long term commitment and the M was ended within several months of them meeting.

 

Sounds like you got the raw end of the deal, and sorry it happened to you. Unfortunately it happens in dating, marriage, committed relationships.... it's not exclusive to a MM OW situation.

And sometimes all of the above just work out fine.

[lilmisscantbewrong]

How do you know they are honest? Just their word? That is worth nothing I am afraid.

 

And if you are friends with these OM you have no idea if they are being truthful or not. None of my friends knew what was happening with me. My husband wasn't being truthful with his OW for certain.

 

I don't know how you can be sure of this.

[OldRover]

How do you know they are honest? Just their word? That is worth nothing I am afraid.

 

Lil,

 

How do you know anyone is honest? Some people have had a relations go bad and have been treated dishonestly, do you expect them to be honest in return?

 

Heck, is 50% of marriages end in divorce, one could argue that at least 25% of the people who were married ended up being dishonest... true? They did promise to love until death do you part?

 

It takes time and a lot of interaction to determine someones honesty with you.

[lilmisscantbewrong]

Lil,

 

How do you know anyone is honest? Some people have had a relations go bad and have been treated dishonestly, do you expect them to be honest in return?

 

Heck, is 50% of marriages end in divorce, one could argue that at least 25% of the people who were married ended up being dishonest... true? They did promise to love until death do you part?

 

It takes time and a lot of interaction to determine someones honesty with you.

 

This is true - and then you still may never know. Which is why I don't think you really know if these men you speak of are honest. They cannot be honest until they live authentic lives - meaning they either get out of their affair or out of their marriage. Most of these men cannot seem to make a decision. I think there are probably women out there like this as well.

 

When I was in my affair I was "honest" with my xmom - at the time - at least I believed I was. I was NOT honest with anyone else - my husband, not my children (even though I didn't out right lie to them I was still dishonest), my parents, my friends - the reason I wasn't is that I was hiding what I was doing - hiding it with everyone. This is not living authentically or honestly. It is, in fact, exhausting.

 

Although I understand the contention that an OW might be honest with her OM and visa versa ( because I didn't hold anything back from him - I was very honest with him - this is what eventually did me in), one still cannot be living an honest life while in an affair. It is what it is.

[OldRover]

This is true - and then you still may never know. Which is why I don't think you really know if these men you speak of are honest. They cannot be honest until they live authentic lives - meaning they either get out of their affair or out of their marriage. Most of these men cannot seem to make a decision. I think there are probably women out there like this as well.

 

When I was in my affair I was "honest" with my xmom - at the time - at least I believed I was. I was NOT honest with anyone else - my husband, not my children (even though I didn't out right lie to them I was still dishonest), my parents, my friends - the reason I wasn't is that I was hiding what I was doing - hiding it with everyone. This is not living authentically or honestly. It is, in fact, exhausting.

 

Although I understand the contention that an OW might be honest with her OM and visa versa ( because I didn't hold anything back from him - I was very honest with him - this is what eventually did me in), one still cannot be living an honest life while in an affair. It is what it is.

 

Iil,

 

Agree with the last line, and seen it with the friend that isn't divorced yet. I'd suspect that's a very difficult life to live. While the A couple seems pretty honest to each other, doing so with others could be pretty challenging.

 

The original point was the the MM was often the bad guy, and I'm just not sure that's correct. Too many factors.

[ComingInHot]

If a ms is cheating then they're actin like a bad guy. Period. Sorry, it just is what it is.

[Aspasia33]

I haven't read the whole thread, but I don't regard the MM as a bad person.

To much emphasis is placed on the marriage in regards to this. I have been hurt , lied to and betrayed by non MM( my husband, ex fiancée, et)

Marriage is not the be all and end all.

 

However, as a MW, the " blame" for my affair is all mine. I am the one who promised to be faithful to my spouse And no matter the circumstances, I broke that promise.

I do feel guilt and remorse over that. I feel no guilt over my MM marriage, as I did not take vows with her, and I do not know her. However, I also don't want to hurt her.

There is no " evil" predator MM, and there is no "poor" victim Ow. The same as there is no witchy seductress temptress OW( except me, of course;)

We all make our own decisions, and being in love is no excuse to walk away from something that isn't working. Yes it hurts, but we live.

[Aspasia33]

And Old Rover, my MM and I are totally honest with each other.. We both dislike lying, and decided 5 years ago that if we are going to do something so out of character, if better be worth it. As in being ourselves with each other.

Neither of us can see the point otherwise.

[Aspasia33]

Yes, this is very true. I very much dislike the dishonest life. I also agree its not authentic.. It's putting a bandaid on things, and takes a huge toll.

But... I don't agree that my MM is dishonest.. Or that either of us are unauthentic. I am the director of 2 companies, I don't tell my competitors what I plan to do, I work my business on a need to know basis, does that make me inauthentic?

 

This is true - and then you still may never know. Which is why I don't think you really know if these men you speak of are honest. They cannot be honest unitil they live authentic lives - meaning they either get out of their affair or out of their marriage. Most of these men cannot seem to make a decision. I think there are probably women out there like this as well.

 

When I was in my affair I was "honest" with my xmom - at the time - at least I believed I was. I was NOT honest with anyone else - my husband, not my children (even though I didn't out right lie to them I was still dishonest), my parents, my friends - the reason I wasn't is that I was hiding what I was doing - hiding it with everyone. This is not living authentically or honestly. It is, in fact, exhausting.

 

Although I understand the contention that an OW might be honest with her OM and visa versa ( because I didn't hold anything back from him - I was very honest with him - this is what eventually did me in), one still cannot be living an honest life while in an affair. It is what it is.

Edited December 27, 2013 by Aspasia33