I don't want to save my marriage.

[Halifax]

Let me aks you something, does he work hard to provide or does he spend a lot of free time wasting it on sports and drinking beer with friends?

[dreamingoftigers]

Let me aks you something, does he work hard to provide or does he spend a lot of free time wasting it on sports and drinking beer with friends?

 

Seriously, screw the "provide" thing.

 

There are more female breadwinners than ever before in American history.

 

Is it not approximately 40%?

 

And now we make the bacon, cook the damn stuff, clean up afterwards and single handedly carry the relationship?

 

Wake up men. This isn't 1924. We can and often do provide for ourselves.

We don't tend to marry to try to "milk" you. We want a partnership where both people's feelings wants and needs are taken into account.

 

Otherwise I would've married an ATM!

 

By the way, I'm the breadwinner in my home. Have been for years. And my husband is a spender.

 

But he IS an excellent and totally involved Dad. A very nurturing loving Dad. And women tell me I'm so lucky all the time because of that quality.

 

I wish we could come together more in the relàtional end. We'll see when I begin local work in February.

[cozycottagelg]

Seriously, screw the "provide" thing.

 

There are more female breadwinners than ever before in American history.

 

Is it not approximately 40%?

 

And now we make the bacon, cook the damn stuff, clean up afterwards and single handedly carry the relationship?

 

Wake up men. This isn't 1924. We can and often do provide for ourselves.

We don't tend to marry to try to "milk" you. We want a partnership where both people's feelings wants and needs are taken into account.

 

Otherwise I would've married an ATM!

 

By the way, I'm the breadwinner in my home. Have been for years. And my husband is a spender.

 

But he IS an excellent and totally involved Dad. A very nurturing loving Dad. And women tell me I'm so lucky all the time because of that quality.

 

I wish we could come together more in the relàtional end. We'll see when I begin local work in February.

 

Exactly. Except I'm not the breadwinner, but my salary isn't much less than my husbands.

 

He too is a great dad. When we are home, he is the fun one, but he is also fair and extremely caring. I could list a ton of great qualities about him. It just doesn't always make up for the fact that for years and years there was/is a double standard. I guess I just can't handle double standards.

[cozycottagelg]

Let me aks you something, does he work hard to provide or does he spend a lot of free time wasting it on sports and drinking beer with friends?

 

He works. I wouldn't say he works hard. He has a desk job and it's not overly stressful. It's a good job and he enjoys it, but to say he works "hard" and comes home stressed or tired at the end of the day wouldn't exactly be truthful.

 

Up until I told him I had one foot out the door (should have jumped with both, now I waiver), he always chose his friends or his alone time first. Always. He never went with us anywhere. I did everything with the kids alone. I went to parties alone, I went to events alone. BBQ's alone, family functions alone. I went CAMPING alone, which is tricky with 2 kids!

 

I would have LOVED to have told people "oh he couldn't make it today, he was working, he works so hard!" but no, I had to say he was "busy"...because "he is home on the couch watching football" or "he is home surfing the internet" is a little embarrassing... and it's hard not to feel like you aren't fun or exciting enough when your husband would rather be alone at home than hanging out with you...

[cozycottagelg]

He works. I wouldn't say he works hard. He has a desk job and it's not overly stressful. It's a good job and he enjoys it, but to say he works "hard" and comes home stressed or tired at the end of the day wouldn't exactly be truthful.

 

Up until I told him I had one foot out the door (should have jumped with both, now I waiver), he always chose his friends or his alone time first. Always. He never went with us anywhere. I did everything with the kids alone. I went to parties alone, I went to events alone. BBQ's alone, family functions alone. I went CAMPING alone, which is tricky with 2 kids!

 

I would have LOVED to have told people "oh he couldn't make it today, he was working, he works so hard!" but no, I had to say he was "busy"...because "he is home on the couch watching football" or "he is home surfing the internet" is a little embarrassing... and it's hard not to feel like you aren't fun or exciting enough when your husband would rather be alone at home than hanging out with you...

 

And frick, I'm FUN! I'm not uptight, I'm not stuffy. I'm a little shy, but I'll have a glass or 5 of wine and get over it. I don't nag or complain. I didn't even ask him to go to things he wouldn't like..he would skip out on events he would have enjoyed!!!

 

I'm sorry..I'm seriously threadjacking and I feel bad..

[dreamingoftigers]

Let me aks you something, does he work hard to provide or does he spend a lot of free time wasting it on sports and drinking beer with friends?

 

Seriously, screw the "provide" thing.

 

There are more female breadwinners than ever before in American history.

 

Is it not approximately 40%?

 

And now we make the bacon, cook the damn stuff, clean up afterwards and single handedly carry the relationship?

 

Wake up men. This isn't 1924. We can and often do provide for ourselves.

We don't tend to marry to try to "milk" you. We want a partnership where both people's feelings wants and needs are taken into account.

 

Otherwise I would've married an ATM!

 

By the way, I'm the breadwinner in my home. Have been for years. And my husband is a spender.

 

But he IS an excellent and totally involved Dad. A very nurturing loving Dad. And women tell me I'm so lucky all the time because of that quality.

 

I wish we could come together more in the relàtional end. We'll see when I begin local work in February.

[Chi townD]

Those are a couple of reasons that disgust me, yes. My children are two of the most important things to me and the fact that their own father doesn't care much for them is disgusting to me. I think it's a pretty valid reason to feel "disgusted" by someone. But no, this goes much deeper. I wanted to vent without pulling every single detail of my marriage out. I understand if that bothers you, but I prefer to keep some details of my life private.

 

 

Yep! Okay......so who's the other guy?

[oldshirt]

Yep! Okay......so who's the other guy?

 

Yeah, sometimes there are elephants in the room that people don't want to mention. And other times there is an entire pod of blue whales.

[trippi1432]

Those are a couple of reasons that disgust me, yes. My children are two of the most important things to me and the fact that their own father doesn't care much for them is disgusting to me. I think it's a pretty valid reason to feel "disgusted" by someone. But no, this goes much deeper. I wanted to vent without pulling every single detail of my marriage out. I understand if that bothers you, but I prefer to keep some details of my life private.

 

Unfortunately, there are some details that aren't private such as the other two threads you have about your boyfriend of the past six months, but if you are going to cross-post in S&D about the husband that I don't believe anyone was privy to as much in the Dating and General Relationships forums, you may need to give a little more detail as to the marriage breakdown and timing on this forum, otherwise assumptions will be made.

 

Before I felt like I could salvage what love was left in my marriage. I listened to his promises to stop drinking and treating me the way he does. His promises to be more involved and to help out with our children and our home. After another year of listening to this, trying to help him, not leaving him because I was afraid if I gave up on him, he'd just give up on himself, I woke up and realized I didn't want to do it anymore.

 

I waited a few months before telling him how I felt because I wanted to be certain. When my feelings didn't change or waiver, no matter what the circumstance, I knew I was done. Even after telling him my decision, nothing has changed. He tries the same promises and pleads, but he has done nothing to really show any improvements or change. I've asked him throughout the years what I can do to help him. I've done research, gone to therapists, etc.

 

After being treated the way I have been, there just isn't love for him anymore. I don't think he is a bad person whatsoever. I think he has made some very poor decisions (who hasn't?) and it has impacted not only myself but our children, our friends, and our families.

 

I totally get that part of your post in bold, but if you feel he isn't a bad man, how has he impacted all of these relationships? What isn't he doing to show improvements, what would he need to do to show improvement? Are there reformed alcoholics, certainly if they choose to be, once they learn empathy and compassion and how it impacts their relationships...but will always be a battle for them as it is a disease.

 

My exH had these empty promises, most of his behavior stemmed from the need to be around his drinking buddies and I didn't make a good one since I had to be sober to take care of the kids and to find him after a drunken blackout so he could be put safely to bed or be fetched out of the front yard before the neighbors saw him naked and pee'ing outside.....or to pick him up after, yet another drunken brawl with one of his drinking buddies so the police didn't tote him to jail.

 

You know, somewhere down the road, I thought I would be "rewarded" for that. He had an "epiphany" once, in front of our kids he said "I know that I need to change and quit drinking before I lose the love of a good woman." What he didn't know was he was easier to live with him as a drunk than he was being a miserable sober person, he was a happy drunk without his influences. And anyone who thinks that self-sacrifice in an abusive relationship gets you rewarded...well, think again.

 

After he left and took up with another woman, during our reconcilliation, he told me he didn't know why he treated her so well and couldn't be that man to me....today, he walks on eggshells keeping her. The one thing I learned from it all was to stop being a co-dependent....and this leads me into your opening post here and some of the posts in your other forums. You stated you were so dependent on your husband, in what way? You sound dependent on your happiness with the "boyfriend"...and you are evaluating the marriage when at odds with the boyfriend or at least that is how I am reading it. So if you really want an opinion, it sounds like you are in an affair fog from this side of the fence without knowing the details of whether you lost your feelings for your husband before or after you got involved with the boyfriend. INdependence should start with you.

 

I guess I have one more thing to add, in the general discussion.....a man providing for a relationship by holding down a job is expected (not worshiped). Why? So he can respect himself just as he wants to be respected. The thing today is not about who brings home the money, who mows the yard, who lets the dog out, who takes care of the home....those are ALL parts of living a life...it's how two people treat each other while they are doing those expected things in living a life. You can make all the money in the world, buy a nice home and have material things...but if you come home and kick the wife, dog and kids....that doesn't make you a man and it doesn't make a woman who earns more any better either. A son looks at his father to be a man and teach him how to be a good one, a daughter looks at her father and learns what kind of man she will marry...I agree, men have a lot of responsibility.....the moral part of it begins at home as being a different type of provider. That feels like what has been left behind for kids today...

Edited December 27, 2013 by trippi1432
typo

[Chi townD]

Yep! Okay......so who's the other guy?

 

 

Wow, got quite after my last post. I guess we don't want to talk about that.

[dreamingoftigers]

This thread should be mandatory reading for any man thinking about marriage. I wish I had seen these things before I signed that contract. What an eye-opener. Times are really changing!

 

Its a real shocker to so many people that being kind, respectful and considering the other person Is a requirement for marriage these days.

 

Most people ask "whats in it for me?" Long before they think "what is it I offer?"

[M30USA]

I do not have any data to corroborate what you have said. I think that respect was much more prevalent in days past. We are getting a distorted version of history that paint the past as this misogynist nightmare, when the opposite was just as true.

 

I can only speak from the perspective of a heterosexual man, but the dating pool from my side of things is deeply disturbing. It is all attitude, swagger, and demands, with virtually no substance.

 

There are all these women willing to support these deadbeat guys and marry prisoners for pete's sake! I just want a whole and decent woman. They are in rare supply.

 

Dr. Helen Smith, psychologist and author, has stated that from a legal (and even sociological) standpoint, women have most or all of the privelages and rights within a marriage, while men have most or all of the responsibilities and liabilities.

 

So let me ask you:

 

If you were a woman, why would you want to be a good wife? You have no incentive to be, and no penalties for failing to be. On the flipside, I can give you about 100 reasons why men are scared to death of NOT being a good husband.

Edited December 30, 2013 by M30USA

[Speakingofwhich]

So far neither of you have given specific examples of behavior by your husband which warrants such extreme hostility. Sure, if he was sleeping around, abusing your children, etc. But you are talking about rude comments and mean looks? Seriously. I think you both need a little perspective. Did you expect to marry Jesus Christ?

 

For example, my sister in law refuses to speak with her own father. She hates his guts. What is her reason? Evidently he would give "lectures" to her when she got in trouble. God forbid! How dare he! So you see? Sometimes it's less about the man in your life, and more about you.

 

OP's feelings are valid whether or not they pass my (or your) criteria of whether OP's feelings are appropriate to her situation or not. What has occurred to cause her feelings is, for us, in offering support (not for her and her husband if they decide to reconcile, but that's not the focus of this thread) irrelevant unless she wants to share those details.

 

To say, "You don't have a right to feel such and such a way because the infractions in your marriage are not severe enough," or "because you haven't shown me the reason you feel that way I don't know if your feelings are valid," is, imho, to exhibit a need for a level of control that is out of range for providing support on this thread for the dilemma she has expressed.

 

We are all unique individuals and behaviors and actions that may lead to disgust for one person in an R may be perfectly acceptable to another person in their relationship.

 

I agree with OP in not unveiling the particulars of her R to satisfy our need to judge whether or not her feelings are warranted.

 

Her feelings are what they are. Period. She is trying to figure out what to do about them and it seems to me that the feelings she has expressed and what to do about them are what should be the focus of our responses. That said, guess I'll go back and try to form an opinion.

[Speakingofwhich]

Dreaming,

 

My ex wife also said that I made her "skin crawl". I'm still trying to figure out what I did to make her feel that way. I'm sure you know my story about me being assaulted and crap. She never apologized for that. And it wasn't the first time. Yet she still managed to say in divorce court that I made her "skin crawl". Perhaps you could shed some light on this?

 

Is it possible you didn't respect her feelings and yet believed you were respecting her feelings? Just asking.

[Speakingofwhich]

I must say that some women seem to want disneys prince charming. A guy who will work hard to provide and also spend every night after he comes home tired from work making sure his wife is pampered so she wont leave him.

 

FYI a husband who doesnt cheat and doesnt beat you and also provides for his family is indeed a given, but also very rare now a days and you should be very grateful to have someone like that.

 

If this is the case with OP's H then she should set him free 1. because of her feelings (if she thinks they are beyond salvaging) and 2. so that he can be a great H to someone else! Why stay with him and make him miserable when he could be happy with someone else?

[Speakingofwhich]

I keep seeing all these postings on FB and around the internet about ways to save your marriage. I read things that make me feel guilty for calling it quits, for being done. Things like, "People just don't take marriage seriously anymore", etc. While I am inclined to agree with those statements, I just can't find it in myself to WANT to be married to my spouse anymore. Looking at him disgusts me. His lack of motivation and interest in myself and our children disgusts me. His, "I'll do it later" attitude disgusts me. My parents pushed me into marrying him when I was 17 as apparently that was my only option. I loved him and enjoyed being his girlfriend, but I was in no way ready to be a wife. However, pregnancy changed that and I grew up very fast.

 

7 years later and I have finally figured out that I am done. I have gone back and forth on it for over 2 years now. I've left a couple times, but been too afraid to stay gone. I have been completely dependent on this man and have been too afraid to be on my own. I don't want to fix things with him. I want this divorce over with as fast as possible. I am beyond ready to move on with my life. I have no desire to work things out with him.

 

When he is in town he asks me questions about "trying" and "working it out". I don't feel love for him. I haven't in a very long time. I am not physically or sexually attracted to him. The thought of touching him disgusts me. I don't know how to make him understand why I don't want to. I fail at explaining to him what I'm feeling and why I'm done. Explaining that I'm no longer in love with him is the hardest. Despite knowing how much he has hurt me, he still doesn't understand. I feel horrible for hurting him because I can't imagine the pain he is in and my goal is not to hurt him, but to allow him to move on and find someone that will love him back. It isn't fair for me to stay married to him out of guilt.

 

LD, it seems you entered marriage because you saw it as the only option to your pregnancy.

 

Beginning a M because of a pregnancy is in and of itself stressful and takes a toll on the M. And especially at a young age.

 

Still, many have had happy M's that resulted from these circumstances.

 

If you believe your feelings are beyond solvable it seems to me you would be doing everyone involved a favor to leave the M. Don't stay in a M because of guilt you have from reading the opinions of others on the internet.

 

However, is it possible you would benefit from therapy with a good therapist so that you can explore the possibility of options for reconciliation with him? If so, it's worth a try.

 

I commend you for not wanting to hurt him and also for being honest with him about your feelings for him.

 

If you are certain your feelings for him can never be restored it seems to me that divorcing sooner, rather than later, is preferable, especially for the children. And is kinder to him in the long run.

 

I have read many of the posts on this thread but not all. And I believe some have made reference to infidelity on your part. If that is so, I'm on record not as condoning your infidelity but as stating that be that as it may, your feelings still exist. And they are valid.

 

However, it seems to me it would be to your advantage, if you are having an A, to call if off and try to salvage your M. But, only you know if you are beyond the point of that being possible or not. I would hate for you to act impulsively being carried away with feelings for another man, only to discover at a later date that it was the "affair fog" that contributed to your negative feelings for your H and you wished you had given him more of a chance to be the object of your love than you did.

 

Again, is therapy an option for you? Getting a D is a serious action to be taking and working through the reasons for it, possibilities of options to avoid it, and implications of it with a therapist may help you to be certain it's what needs to happen so that you don't second guess yourself in the future. And so that you don't make a decision you may regret at a later time.

[dreamingoftigers]

Dr. Helen Smith, psychologist and author, has stated that from a legal (and even sociological) standpoint, women have most or all of the privelages and rights within a marriage, while men have most or all of the responsibilities and liabilities.

 

So let me ask you:

 

If you were a woman, why would you want to be a good wife? You have no incentive to be, and no penalties for failing to be. On the flipside, I can give you about 100 reasons why men are scared to death of NOT being a good husband.

 

The more guys that buy into this garbage, the crappier it is for everyone.

 

A marriage is made up of two INDIVIDUALS who DECIDE what responsibilities etc. are meted out to each one.

 

Seriously, what over-the-top things have you guys had to do? Really?

 

All that I keep reading and seeing is most women doing double-shifts and trying to be super mom/wife and having a husband who doesn't give half of a crap/whines and then leaves her when she hits around 40 to go try to play with the younger girls. Or they just get porn addicted and the wife gets blamed for that too.

 

What a crappy time to live in regarding marriage.

[cozycottagelg]

The more guys that buy into this garbage, the crappier it is for everyone.

 

A marriage is made up of two INDIVIDUALS who DECIDE what responsibilities etc. are meted out to each one.

 

Seriously, what over-the-top things have you guys had to do? Really?

 

All that I keep reading and seeing is most women doing double-shifts and trying to be super mom/wife and having a husband who doesn't give half of a crap/whines and then leaves her when she hits around 40 to go try to play with the younger girls. Or they just get porn addicted and the wife gets blamed for that too.

 

What a crappy time to live in regarding marriage.

 

I completely agree with this. I certainly have seen some demanding wives in my community, ones that I can't believe any man would want to be with because they are all "me me me me me"...but my closest friends and I have a very realistic view of what a marriage should entail.

 

I loved taking care of my husband. I loved being the wife who never said no. I loved being the "cool" wife...problem is, my husband took advantage of that. If I ever find myself in a new relationship, I will still be that same girl. I ENJOY taking care of a man. I just hope next time, if there is one, I get shown the same respect that I show toward my partner.

 

Even last night at a birthday party for my father, despite I am tired from holidays and watching the kids, I still brought my husband his dinner so he could watch football, and brought him beer whenever I went out to get my own. I wait on him. I make his life very easy. And you know what, he's been crabby for days because we haven't had sex. What a slap in the face.

[cozycottagelg]

 

Seriously, what over-the-top things have you guys had to do? Really?

 

 

I'd be interested in the answer to this question.

Edited December 30, 2013 by cozycottagelg

[Little_Discourage]

Wait, aren't you the same person that posted about your boyfriend that you've been with for six months and have "amazing sex" with????

 

No wonder you don't hold your husband in much esteem or show him any respect or support or appreciation of his domestic and fathering abilities.

 

Remind us why he shouldn't divorce you on the spot and move on so he can find a decent loving partner who will respect and treat him honorably????

 

We were separated for a very long time before I got into a relationship with my current partner. And he was fully aware of it.

[Little_Discourage]

Yep! Okay......so who's the other guy?

 

I completely forgot about this website for a long time until I went through my emails recently.

 

I am not ashamed of the relationship I was in. I guess I can go ahead and explain even though it's what, two years later since I made this post? Ha.

 

 

 

So... Like I stated in OP, I got married at 17, which was a decision heavily influenced by my parents and the fact that I was pregnant with my ex-husband's child. We were married for several years, all of which he drank, very heavily. When he drank, he was very violent. He would put holes in the walls, broke several doors, the bathroom mirror, etc. He threw car keys at my face, ripped the inside trim off of his car door and threw it at me, kicked in our front door because he broke our house key trying to unlock it, all while drunk. He got angry with me because I was ready to go to bed while he was drinking and started punching the bed next to my head. When I was about 7 months pregnant he had decided he was ready for bed and I was doing the dishes. He grabbed my arm and yanked me toward our bedroom, causing me to fall. I would try to stand and he'd keep pushing me back down. The point I decided I had had enough was when we had friends visiting and he got into my face screaming at me that he'd kill me and punched me. All because he was upset I didn't want him using a pole saw to cut limbs off of a tree in the middle of the night while heavily intoxicated.

 

So... those are so minor details of my marriage that I wasn't really willing to go into. Yes, he worked very hard and he did provide for myself and our children. There were a lot of very good times. Enough to where I had a second child with him, obviously. He kind of plateaued and I thought things would be better. Then it just got worse to the point where he had hit me, which is when I had had enough. I wasn't willing to let him grab a lamp and smash it into the floor repeatedly in front of our son anymore. I was done. I left him.

 

During the course of our separation, I was depending heavily on friends and family while I job searched. I needed something above minimum wage to afford a place to live and my own bills. I had a Jeep that was high in payments I couldn't afford. I had to voluntarily repossess it and save every penny I could to buy my little Subaru Outback I have now. I didn't have the ex's help in finding child care for our children, or even just as a co-parent. It was 100% up to me. So for a year after I left him, he was completely out of the picture. I met the guy in my other posts and we hit it off. He was amazing. We got into a relationship and when I told my ex, he was upset. Even though he had been out of the picture for a year, he still felt like I was his. I couldn't afford to get divorced. I tried to go the Pro Se route, but I wasn't willing to let him screw me over in court considering he makes substantially more money than I did/do. We were separated for a year BEFORE I made this post, FYI. Once I got with my boyfriend, THAT was when he started trying to get me back and when I just kind of lost it and made the OP. I was feeling bad for not wanting to try again, despite everything. I was fine for so long and then he just swooped back in. I felt like there must be something wrong with me for not wanting to make it work.

 

Since the OP, my ex and I have become great co-parents. He's been on unemployment since December 2014, hasn't paid a single dime of child support, but he now has a better relationship with our kids and I'm happy for it. We are able to communicate without a problem. I even called him on a trip to visit my family with our children about my car overheating and he walked my ignorant butt through how to check the oil and coolant. I think my leaving was the best thing to ever happen to us. I wasn't a cheater during our marriage. Yes, a year into our separation I did get into another relationship. But it was very clear we were over. My ex had also been doing his own thing (i.e. sleeping around).

 

I'm sure this post is worded horribly and my explanation ridiculous, but it is what it is. I just read through some of the replies and felt like I owed some kind of explanation.

[darkmoon]

so you want out, ok, please budget/plan your future life and also talk to an attorney

 

you married young, maybe you missed out on the experience of supporting yourself, even with a room-mate, let alone with two children, money matters see