When is it enough?

[nycpetit]

He left tonight. Exactly four months to the day he'd moved back in. And prior to that, he'd been gone for exactly one year.

 

I am berefet. We've been together basically for over three years. Were engaged at one time. And since then, we've been through a lot (see below post about moving in and out...)

 

I don't know how to cope this time around. I'd hoped we wouldn't live together straight away after living apart for a year, but he had no where to go at the time. And so, it was to be temporary, because he was going to move to LA. Now I find he's taken a place in Brooklyn (I am in midtown NYC) and has agreed to be there for a year.

 

He couldn't do that with me, couldn't commit to a place for a year.

 

I guess I have to realize that I am totally not what he wants. Or vice versa. I haven't slept in a week. And he's still got to come back in the next couple of days to get the rest of his things.

 

This was/is HIS place.

 

I love him incredibly, although at the age of 35 now, I suppose I could do a lot better with someone who's ready to settle down. He's decided in the last year to be an actor at the age of 31. And he's always broke. Yes. he has a job, but it doesn't cover what he needs to get by or pay off his debts.

 

I feel that he's probably not the right guy for me, nevertheless we've been through a TON! I had a kidney transplant four months ago, and he was a potential donor for me. And we've helped one another through depression (his), career changes (both), and somehow never let go. But this time when he moved back, I was recovereing from surgery and hmm, I gathered through his words that since he "didn't know" what he wanted with the relationship (I don't know if he automatically assumed I meant marriage, which i did NOT), that we'd never work out living together again.

 

We did many fun things together and spent more time with one another's families than we did in the two and a half years prior. But I was not as open intimately. Still recovering from a major operation, and wondering, if he's saying "i don't know" wouldn't that be dumb of me to jump into something.

 

In any case, he moved out, regardless that we discussed doing it together this month, and did it behind my back decided the day after Xmas.

 

The big problem. I can't stop crying and falling apart when he's around. He has NOT broken up with me, and doesn't want to. He wants us to each have some time because we've agreed that we should have lived separately first upon his return back to the city four months ago, but he had no money, and was possibly going to be leaving within two months.

 

I don't know though. I don't plan to contact him for anything. I don't feel a need to. But I know there is NO way I can imagine myself with someone else. He needs time however. Why when I can see these things, am I not able to let go completely? When he left first in Sept. 2003, it was tough, terrible actually. But I didn't do No contact very well at all. I don't know if he ever came back to ME per se. Or it was that he always knew I was there for him. Made it convenient. Perhaps he needs to realize that I am not there for him always?

 

Do I say this to him. Or just say nothing. And no contact? If I do no contact, it will be really the first time I've done that with him. Might that, at this point, be the only way I will ever know (and him) what he wants? As well, he's getting very active now with work here in the city, and has tons of new acting friends and shows coming up. So perhaps he won't miss me at all. I don't know what to do. My mind says, 'try hard to let go." And my heart just cannot.

 

Will no contact bring me some answers? Will I likely ever hear from him if I do that?

 

I just need some support here.

[uriel]

Sorry you're hurting. Two pieces of advice:

 

1) Don't try to plan this. React to what's happening with the most care you can for your own emotional health. You can't make him stay or take back the hurt he's causing. You can't make the relationship have a future by yourself. But you can be true to your feelings and what you want for yourself.

 

2) In a committed relationship, time apart does not work as a strategy for healing the rifts. You should be able to work together, talk things out, etc. So, if time apart seems the only way you CAN stay even marginally together, you already know the relationship's not working out. Unless you do something dramatically different (by that I mean couples counseling), this is another hiccup toward the end.

 

If you want to save this, find a couples counselor and ask him to make a longterm commitment to working on your relationship. If he says 'no,' you have your answer.

 

-- uriel

[DinNJ]

I would have to say... it's enough, when you finally come to terms with yourself and can actually ask the question..."When is it enough?" You're the one who is hurting not him.... so everyone has their limits... make a decision... when have YOU had enough.... because changing his mind or the way he is.... is only up to him. So why should you suffer? it sucks... believe I know....and it's a terrible thing to go through... but a change has to start with you.

[nycpetit]

So what do you mean by the change happening with me? I don'tknow that I could say that he's not hurting at all. But I would say that he at least feels now that he's made a decision to remain in the city, and not have it mean that he had to define something between us by living here that neither of us was ready to do.

 

I don't know what change. I had changed, in the sense that I was fine with it as was. As soon as he moved back in, had all these kind words, and acts, apologies for the past, and then wanted more intimacy, it fell apart.

 

I am going to take a guess here, you feel that I need to tell him it's over? Or it's a mental thing I need to do?

[DinNJ]

yes, a mental thing. Like you said... he needs to know you're NOT always going to be there for him.

[Universe]

In a committed relationship, time apart does not work as a strategy for healing the rifts. You should be able to work together, talk things out, etc. So, if time apart seems the only way you CAN stay even marginally together, you already know the relationship's not working out. Unless you do something dramatically different (by that I mean couples counseling), this is another hiccup toward the end.

 

This happened with me and my ex. We tried time apart because we knew that we both needed space. But it did nothing to heal the rifts. After two months of living apart we broke up. I wish someone had suggested couples counseling back then. I'm sure we could have worked through our problems with a little help. Breaking up helped me to see everything clearly and I have made reparations to myself and the way I want to share my love. Unfortunately, she doesn't want to get back together and is still having issues. I think our issues were not so severe as to end the beautiful relationship that we had. I believe couseling would have saved us. But it never even crossed my mind.

 

Then again, after a year apart, he may just want to take it slow. Living together is the opposite of taking it slow. I'm now a strong proponent of not living together until you've been together, or back together, for a good long time and have really considered what living together entails. Living together does two very harmful things: It drains the excitement of being together while putting pressure and expectations that time apart can alleviate. You have to make sure you're ready to consistently make a conscious effort to keep it exciting and quiet considerate understanding of each other's individual identities. You have to know how to cultivate those identities because living together amalgamates your identities into a sort of co-dependence. Very unhealthy.

 

So give him space. But more importantly, give yourself space. Make sure you're not dependent on him. Make sure you're not leaning on him. Go out without him. Make friends without him. Don't ignore him or avoid him. Just cultivate your own identity and personality. If things get worse or stagnate, consider couples counseling. But try to keep the time you do spend with him positive and fun.

 

Good luck.

[nycpetit]

Thanks. One thing I should say however, is that I was a proponent of not living together. He was looking for work, unsure where he was going to live, here, another apt or in LA, and I simply said, calmly and honestly that if he didn't know what he wanted we needed to live apart until then, because living together would not bring us the happiness together that we wanted at this point.

 

It was hard for me as well, because I didn't want to put someone out who had nothing at the time. And at one point, I may have honestly pointed out (and he did later agree) that he'd come back somewhat out of convenience, also having questions as to whether or not we should live together again just yet.

 

As time has passed with him finally making the decision and finding something very, very fast, it has been hard for me to not ask questions, or analyze just as he had not wanted to. He has withdrawn affection in the three days before he left, and while will have to be back to get more stuff, and do what needs to be done here, I don't know what to do otherwise. In my mind, I am at least in a place where I don't feel a need to call him, email, or IM him. That's not an issue for me. It's just hard to feel that I was not a proponent to not live together, and he agreed but in the end, after a long while of my stressing (as much as we still did things together and took care of our home togethre) that we'd put too much pressure on ourselves if we lived together for too long just yet, he really did this final move in a nasty way. Didn't consult with me, and looked for places before even telling me.

 

When he did first find something, last wed. he came here and told me that he wanted to talk. Was loving and nice, and very supportive of this being a positive for US, and for him as well. And that he wanted to look at it as the way things should have been back in Sept. before moving.

 

However, I've pushed since then, being hurt that he did the decision without talking to me (it was agreed to do it in January, and he did this two days after xmas) and that as the week has progressed, he has made me feel badly that he's moving. Granted, it's no doubt because I haven't shut up. I will I guess simply attempt to do together what has to be done here, and let it up to him to hang out or not. After all this time, we must not do this to one another again. I am so sorry that we lived together at all before he came back. But I was very supportive of him during the time of trying to figure out a job, and acting classes, and getting on his feet. Determining NY versus LA, and keeping out of it completley. Nevertheless in response to your part about the pressures of the relationship when living together, he wanted more intimacy than I was giving. At times expressed that I wasn't as loving, or he felt i didn't feel the same way for him as before. And I would simply honestly say, that A) I was still recovering my kidney transplant in mid August, and B) That I was therefore not having the healthiest sex drive I could, and would love some of those romantic nights he used to do to help me out, and C) That a part of me felt that we were still seeing where it was all going. Maybe I was a little scared to get too close.

 

This doesn't seem to have gone over well. It made him feel, I guess that he was on probation. Not fair considering he was being just as honest saying he had questions about living together so quickly again, and that it was unfair he didn't know how long he'd be here in NY, and most importantly, that he "didn't know" what he wanted with the relationship.

 

I am going to try to keep my head up and not cry around him anymore, and not ask any questions. Perhaps after he's gotten his stuff all out, some normalcy is back in my life, and IF he's made a contact with me, I will feel better or that we are more where we were in Sept.

 

For once and for all, he must make this decision, and he knows (and then reacts I think out of guilt) that he's never made a decision. And feels he needs to be selfish for him only right now and focus on being an actor, while doing other work of course, but it still hurts when someone says they can't be with you or where they should be in their minds at the same time.

 

I have to accept that I have my questions too. And to embrace them, and not push for something from him that neither of us is ready for. With that, however, I do hope we are able to work it out. He mentioned couples counseling once, and that it shouldn't be necessary as we aren't even married. But I tell you, we act like one, and we act married, and have gone through what married couples go through. There is no infidelity here. It's his career questions, sensitivity to any discussions, and desire to let go of the past and fully love me as I truly feel deep down he does. I only recall that when he said couples counseling (leading me to believe since he through this out once before like perhaps a year ago) that he might have had someone suggest it to him before, and that he's was looking for my reaction.

 

I said, honestly it would have been good for both of us. Perhaps we'd have learned we aren't hearing fully or understanding what the other person is saying, or perhaps we'd have learned that we are on different pages. And he was sort of nasty then and said, "Well, I guess we are just incompatible now."

 

I still think IF we are going anywhere down the road, that it would be a good idea.