oldshirt Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 I haven't read all of the other posts but yes there is a lot of truth to "affair Down." Just keep in mind there are different forms of affairs. If it is an ongoing affair and the WS (male or female) is making virtually no actions towards leaving the spouse, it is usually an 'affair down' situation and the AP is simply a sperm receptacle/dildo-that-talks that is used for some extra orgasms and some strokes for the ego. If the WS is packing their bags putting deposits down on an apt in town to be with the AP, it is an upgrade. If the AP is clearly "better" than the spouse, the WS often leaves. sometimes literally in days. If the affair is going on and on and the WS says they are unhappy and/or they are leaving but after months or even years of one excuse or another, it's because it is a low hanging available fruit situation to keep the tank drained. 2
happy stillmore Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 I haven't read all of the other posts but yes there is a lot of truth to "affair Down." Just keep in mind there are different forms of affairs. If it is an ongoing affair and the WS (male or female) is making virtually no actions towards leaving the spouse, it is usually an 'affair down' situation and the AP is simply a sperm receptacle/dildo-that-talks that is used for some extra orgasms and some strokes for the ego. If the WS is packing their bags putting deposits down on an apt in town to be with the AP, it is an upgrade. If the AP is clearly "better" than the spouse, the WS often leaves. sometimes literally in days. If the affair is going on and on and the WS says they are unhappy and/or they are leaving but after months or even years of one excuse or another, it's because it is a low hanging available fruit situation to keep the tank drained. Are you serious? Dear old shirt, reality is WS do not leave because of family obligations, financial reasons and/or fear of leaving the comforts of home. Often, WS want to leave but don't. The WS very much wants to be with AP. No-one is better, AP or BS. Get real with your thinking. 4
anne1707 Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 Are you serious? Dear old shirt, reality is WS do not leave because of family obligations, financial reasons and/or fear of leaving the comforts of home. Often, WS want to leave but don't. The WS very much wants to be with AP. No-one is better, AP or BS. Get real with your thinking. Reality is also that many WS do not leave because they actually don't want to. They are selfish individuals who are happy at home and love their wives. They just want cake. Nothing at all to do with family obligations, etc. 10
oldshirt Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 Are you serious? Dear old shirt, reality is WS do not leave because of family obligations, financial reasons and/or fear of leaving the comforts of home. Often, WS want to leave but don't. The WS very much wants to be with AP. No-one is better, AP or BS. Get real with your thinking. Wow! if you think WS are always pining for the AP and are just staying 'for the kids' then you are the one that needs to get real. People do what they want to do and think will be best for them. If they think the AP is a clear upgrade and that they will be better off, it only takes them however long it takes to get a new placed lined up, the divorce paper work in order and everything squared away with the banks and credit cards. People that linger on with an AP for months/years and take virtually no steps to leave are not staying 'for the kids'. they are cakeeating and doing everything they can to NOT rock the boat and maintain the status quo. It takes a lot of effort, work and energy to maintain a side dish and keep the marriage and family intact. It takes a lot of work to maintain all the lies, the deceptions, the appearances of normalcy etc etc etc. In other words, it takes a lot of time, work and energy to keep the AP hanging on but to NOT leave the BS. It's quicker, easier and in the end cheaper to just pack some bags and leave. The people who keep their AP hanging on but continue maintaining the appearances of an intact marriage do so because they are highly motivated to do so. The reason they are highly motivated to so is because the AP is step or two down from their BS. If the AP is clearly a step or two up, they are gone in a very short period of time, kids or not. And yes, I have seen this personally in my own life with several couples I know personally. In one case it was two perfectly normal, middle aged, well educated, attractive professional couples. Husband A met wife B at a class reunion on a Friday night and by Monday both of them were in their lawyers offices filing for divorce. Both had minor children. Their spouses never even knew what hit them. In another case one of my good work friends went on a weekend business trip with his wife and were taken out for dinner by a sales rep. It was the first time any of them met. by the next weekend she had her bags and the kids (6 and 8) packed and had an apt of her own and was making plans of riding off into the sunset with the rep. (in the end as is often the case, she was left emptyhanded when the sales rep decided he didn't want to be an Insta-dad) My point is, this is real life. It's discomforting and disturbing but it is the reality. 5
Nothisgirl Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 Reality is also that many WS do not leave because they actually don't want to. They are selfish individuals who are happy at home and love their wives. They just want cake. Nothing at all to do with family obligations, etc. Errr....wait a second...The WS "loves" their wife but sleeps with and falls in love with another woman??? ...that's not love IMHO...that's AT BEST, comfort and familiarity but more then likely stems from conflict avoidance and cowardly tendencies... Although I do agree with you that most of them are incredibly selfish...thumbs up there. 2
oldshirt Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 The reason they are highly motivated to so is because the AP is step or two down from their BS. If the AP is clearly a step or two up, they are gone in a very short period of time, kids or not. My point is, this is real life. It's discomforting and disturbing but it is the reality. There is really a simple formula taking place here. If the AP is - an upgrade = The WS starts packing bags, calling lawyers, finding a new pad, changing bank accounts/credit cards etc. often within weeks or a month of so of the first downstroke. a downgrade = WS works hard to maintain normalcy at home while keeping the AP hanging on for sex and ego strokes. (and in the process uses excuses of kids, sick spouse, can't afford new home etc etc) 1
anne1707 Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 Errr....wait a second...The WS "loves" their wife but sleeps with and falls in love with another woman??? ...that's not love IMHO...that's AT BEST, comfort and familiarity but more then likely stems from conflict avoidance and cowardly tendencies... Although I do agree with you that most of them are incredibly selfish...thumbs up there. As a fWS, I know that it is possible to love the BS and still have an affair. And yes, I was a selfish b*tch to do so. 2
oldshirt Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 There is really a simple formula taking place here. If the AP is - an upgrade = The WS starts packing bags, calling lawyers, finding a new pad, changing bank accounts/credit cards etc. often within weeks or a month of so of the first downstroke. a downgrade = WS works hard to maintain normalcy at home while keeping the AP hanging on for sex and ego strokes. (and in the process uses excuses of kids, sick spouse, can't afford new home etc etc) And if you are the OM/OW there is an easy formula to know if you are an upgrade or a downgrade. If your MM/MW is taking actual physical steps to leave, ie deposits on an apt, changing bank accounts/credit cards, making arraingements for childcare, seeing lawyers, filing paperwork etc in preparations to leave, you are an upgrade and they think they will be better off with you. If they are giving you one excuse after another but are not actually performing those tasks, you are a downgrade and just an extra piece of poon for some extra fun, excitement and ego strokes. 2
liloldlady Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 There is really a simple formula taking place here. If the AP is - an upgrade = The WS starts packing bags, calling lawyers, finding a new pad, changing bank accounts/credit cards etc. ...assuming he's not completely dependent upon the BS financially. 2
rumbleseat Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 Question: Why are so many ow absolutely convinced that they are an "upgrade" , especially when they have never seen let alone met, the bw? In the end, does it really matter? Perhaps it is some comfort to hold onto when the a doesn't result in the ws leaving his or the affair ends badly. Maybe it's a salve to ease the guilt over being the ow. Maybe it's the truth, maybe she really is an "upgrade". The fact is that she will never really know, as unless she knew the w before she was being weighed down by the affair, she won't really know what she is like. Besides,how do you truly measure the worth of a person? Maybe ow is pretty, outgoing and has a great job, while the bs is a great mom, is also attractive and does a lot of volunteer work out I her community. Which is the better person? Do we put them on some sort of scale to measure their worth? I do think, though, that the competition that both bs and ow feel towards each other is nasty. 6
awkward Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 (edited) I personally believe that it is something said by the husband or wife to make themselves feel better. When something like that happens to you it's easy to try to justify it or make it out to be worse than it is, to save your own sanity. Personally I am much more attractive than the wife. And trust me I am not an overly confident person..at all. In fact my self esteem is really low. Everyone is attractive in their own way. You could see a picture of someone and thinkg "really." But meet them in person and they could come off as absolutelty adorable and attractive. Again this is focusing on physical beauty. There will always be someone prettier than you. Even beautiful women get cheated on. As far as your low self-esteem that could be one of the reasons MM was attracted to you. Will MM leave to be with you? Will MM marry you? ETA: There will always be someone younger too. Men don't choose their wives on physical beauty alone. Edited December 28, 2013 by awkward 1
awkward Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 ...assuming he's not completely dependent upon the BS financially. Clearly in this case, an upgrade would be an OW that could keep him comfortable in his lifestyle.
oldshirt Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 ...assuming he's not completely dependent upon the BS financially. If they are staying with the BS for money, then they are cake eating and getting money and support from the BS and fun and excitement from the AP. If they are staying with the BS for money then they still don't think the AP is an upgrade, other wise the AP would be able to afford them. If in their minds the AP was an upgrade they'd make the jump even if it meant a hit in the pocketbook. We all need to keep in mind that whether the AP is an upgrade or a down grade is in the mind of the WS, not what the rest of us think. If someone is staying with their BS for one thing and banging their AP for something else, that is cake eating and they are working it to get the best of both worlds and the AP is not an upgrade to them. When they think the AP is an upgrade, they make the jump. 1
oldshirt Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 Clearly in this case, an upgrade would be an OW that could keep him comfortable in his lifestyle. Yes this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ If the AP had more money and was able/willing to support him better, he'd make the jump. ....and someone that was that much of a leech, he'd make the jump in no time without blinking an eye.
liloldlady Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 Clearly in this case, an upgrade would be an OW that could keep him comfortable in his lifestyle. ...& I am not here to enable him & be his second mom. It's starting to do a lot of harm to his sense of self-worth
liloldlady Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 If they are staying with the BS for money then they still don't think the AP is an upgrade, other wise the AP would be able to afford them. He doesn't want to live that way anymore. It's been going on too long. And so I empower, rather than enable him.
bentleychic Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 Besides,how do you truly measure the worth of a person? Maybe ow is pretty, outgoing and has a great job, while the bs is a great mom, is also attractive and does a lot of volunteer work out I her community. Which is the better person? Do we put them on some sort of scale to measure their worth? I do think, though, that the competition that both bs and ow feel towards each other is nasty. I agree with all of this completely and tried to say as much earlier. LOL 1
psm04 Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 Question: In the end, does it really matter? Perhaps it is some comfort to hold onto when the a doesn't result in the ws leaving his or the affair ends badly. Maybe it's a salve to ease the guilt over being the ow. Maybe it's the truth, maybe she really is an "upgrade". The fact is that she will never really know, as unless she knew the w before she was being weighed down by the affair, she won't really know what she is like. Besides,how do you truly measure the worth of a person? Maybe ow is pretty, outgoing and has a great job, while the bs is a great mom, is also attractive and does a lot of volunteer work out I her community. Which is the better person? Do we put them on some sort of scale to measure their worth? I do think, though, that the competition that both bs and ow feel towards each other is nasty. I agree with this. Exactly. Why does it matter? I'm a WS who had an A with a MM. And I can tell you as an AP that at no time did I sit down and wonder whether my H was better than my xAP, or make a list or anything like that. I love my H for certain things, and loved my xAP for other things. Obviously I couldn't love my xAP in the same way because we never lived together, shared a household, responsibilities, etc. And speaking for him, I do think that his W is generally a good person. I've also seen her pic on FB, and I can't compare the two of us because we have completely different features, skin tone, hair color, etc. That doesn't make one of us more or less attractive than the other. I know he found me beautiful, and I'm sure he finds his W beautiful too. Just like I found both he and my H attractive. I can understand the concept of "affairing up" or "affairing down" in people who seek out an extramarital affair, or who just want to go and F around. For those of us who never intended to betray our spouses, but found ourselves in love with someone who we didn't expect to fall in love with, it doesn't apply. Thinking about whether you were more or less worthy than the AP or the BS only causes more insecurity and self esteem issues. We all already have too much that we are trying to figure out in this mess. This is one thing that I think is not necessary. Each individual person knows whether their AP loved them or not. And yes, there are several reasons why a person won't leave their M, and it is not fair for someone to say that a WS isn't leaving because their AP was a 'downgrade' from their spouse. That's just hateful. That's my rant! 5
oldshirt Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 He doesn't want to live that way anymore. It's been going on too long. And so I empower, rather than enable him. Simple formula - if the WS thinks the AP is an upgrade, they start packing up. If they don't do that, then it's not an upgrade for them. It's all in what the WS thinks is an upgrade or not. What other people (including the AP) think is an upgrade vs downgrade for them has no relevance. 1
oldshirt Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 I'm a WS who had an A with a MM. And I can tell you as an AP that at no time did I sit down and wonder whether my H was better than my xAP, Yes you did. You just came to the conclusion that AP wasn't clearly better enough to make the jump.
oldshirt Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 I love my H for certain things, and loved my xAP for other things. ! = Cake eating.
chelsea2011 Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 It would seem to me that "affairing down" is a label and labels only count if you give them that power. If you feel like you don't stack up then there is work to do on yourself. 1
SolG Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 Wow. The emotion in the responses here are just as interesting as the content! I've not long finished reading 'His Needs, Her Needs: Building an Affair-proof Marriage' by Willard F. Harley. While I'm not necessarily a fan of religion based psychology due to the inherent traditionalistic bias--this book is no exception and some parts of it made me positively cringe in an 'Hello 1950s, this is 2013 calling!' way--there is a lot in this book that I believe has merit. Particularly with regard to the things that happen in the primary relationship that can predispose a spouse to becoming ripe for the picking in terms of an A... without them even realising it. A spouse who does not continually work on his or her relationship in concert with their partner to have both their needs met is at greater risk of straying to have those needs met elsewhere. This is not to say that a WS and OW/M are not responsible for their actions, or to imply that such actions are not wrong; rather it provides context. And useful information for anyone in a relationship. With this in mind, I'll reiterate that I don't think 'affairing-up' or 'affairing-down' are useful or even relevant concepts with regard to why or how WSs choose an AP. It's far more complex process... and at the same time more conceptually simple than that. They choose based on what they need. 1
oldshirt Posted December 29, 2013 Posted December 29, 2013 With this in mind, I'll reiterate that I don't think 'affairing-up' or 'affairing-down' are useful or even relevant concepts with regard to why or how WSs choose an AP. It's far more complex process... and at the same time more conceptually simple than that. They choose based on what they need. Affair up vs affair down is more relevant to the AP more than anyone else IMHO. If your WS has been with you for any length of time and is not making any legitimate steps to leave, that means you are an affair down and they have no intentions of leaving their spouse for you. Even if you think you are younger, prettier, sexier etc. 2
liloldlady Posted December 29, 2013 Posted December 29, 2013 If your WS has been with you for any length of time and is not making any legitimate steps to leave, that means you are an affair down In our case, I don't think he wants to burden me. I don't think he wants to relate to me or anyone else in the way he presently must: as a dependent.
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