Why now? This long after, suffocating. Need guidance.

[livingnightmare]

The only person I have ever been with ran off with suspected gigs 4 yrs ago, I was with her for 6 yrs and looking back, I was constantly walking on egg shells and being emotionaly abused in many ways, It ended with the back drop of ILYBNILWY love letter and her texting hiding phone getting close with some other guy from a club etc

 

Straight after the split within days I was asked to buy them shopping so I spent all my money to make sure they were fed etc, a few days later I was looking for my daughter as I did not know where she had taken her, they were in temp accommodation and moved in them few days and her phone was off. later on that evening after I found my daughter at the exs sisters house, I received abusive phone calls from the ex, she then cruely told me she picked some stranger up on the weekend and ****ed him all weekend, was put down how it was the best sex she ever had told me what they done and told it was a proper d**k he had not like mine, brought size into it shape and then told me all I was good with was my tounge.

 

Sorry 4 the details, but why do I still feel so low in myself, I have absolutely NO self esteem, I lost all my friends in the relationship.

 

I foolishly drank so much after this shock, it was the only way I could cope with the intense anger, pain, abandonment the list goes on.

 

Please can someone tell me what I need to do to get fully over this, I know she was toxic for me, but why am I feeling like this? Is this normal so long after.

 

I actualy cried the other day, dam I wish I new what to do to escape these awful feelings. The friends I made are mainly drinkers and I have grown out of them, I have no proper job as 3 yrs into the relationship I found out she cheated on me at the beginning, instead of her supporting me she done the opposite and like an idiot dealing with it badly I ended up breaking broke both my heels and ankles from drinking to once again ease my pain so have only work temporary It just gets me by paying up keep to my mother and father ( I live with them, cannot afford to move out.) Paying towards my daughter and thats it I have no life, I have no money no house nothing, at 34 I feel so lost in life. I cant see how I can get out of this.

 

Really need guidance from someone I need to ground my thoughts, they go up and down, I need an outside perspective to tell me how it is and what I need to do.

[Heatemyheart89]

Hello

First of all in all honesty she doesn't really sound that nice the stuff she says etc. Secondly I think that you ( like me) have placed way to much importance on a specific relationship. It makes you blind to other things in life.

I think maybe to move on you need some counselling. You need to get yourself back on track really in the hope of meeting someone else who will make you happy.

 

The first thing I would do is work on your health mental and physical. Go to your doctor and get referred to a counsellor. When you are feeling better maybe look into getting a job that could expand your social life or perhaps a hobby?This is what I am doing. I am in a similar position to you.

Edited December 28, 2013 by Heatemyheart89

[Downtown]

Can anyone advice me of what the hell happened to me?

LN, the behaviors you describe -- verbal abuse, temper tantrums triggered in seconds by trivial issues, always being "The Victim," lack of trust, strong vindictiveness, lack of impulse control (e.g., sexual promiscuity), and sudden flips between adoring and hating you -- are some of the classic traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) and NPD (Narcissistic PD). I therefore suggest that you see a clinical psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on exactly WHAT it is that you and your young daughter are dealing with.

 

One important issue is whether your exW has strong traits of BPD and/or NPD. Another issue is why you have such excessive caregiver traits that you were willing to stay in such a toxic relationship for six years. (Lest you think I am being judgmental here, I note that I am an excessive caregiver who foolishly remained in a toxic marriage with a BPDer for 15 years -- far longer than you did.)

 

While you're waiting for an appointment with a psychologist, I suggest you read about BPD and NPD traits to see if most of them sound very familiar. Importantly, neither of us is capable of diagnosing your exW's issues. Only a professional can do that (i.e., determine whether she has the full-blown disorders). You nonetheless are capable of spotting the warning signs for these two disorders if you take time to learn what red flags to look for. As you already know too well, there is nothing subtle about traits such as temper tantrums, verbal abuse, and irrational jealousy.

I was constantly walking on egg shells.

If your exW is a BPDer (i.e., has strong traits), the only way you could have kept her in the relationship for six years was to "walk on eggshells." This is true for nearly everyone married to a BPDer. This is why the #1 best-selling BPD book (targeted to the abused spouses) is called Stop Walking on Eggshells.

Why am I feeling like this?

I don't know and cannot say. I can say, however, that if you've been living with a BPDer or narcissist for six years, you should consider yourself LUCKY if you are only feeling confused and guilty. Most spouses in that same situation typically feel like they may be going crazy. Significantly, BPD and NPD (and ASPD) are notorious for making the abused partners feel so utterly confused and disoriented that many of them run to therapists to find out if they are losing their minds.

 

Of the three disorders I mention above, BPD is the one most notorious for having that "crazy-making" effect on the abused partners. I therefore suggest that, if you are interested in reading about the red flags for BPD and NPD, you begin with BPD symptoms. An easy place to start reading is my list of 18 BPD warning signs at http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/breaks-breaking-up/419416-ran-into-my-ex-bar-8-months-later-interesting-story#post5164075.

 

If most of those BPD warning signs sound very familiar, LN, I suggest you also read my more detailed description of those warning signs in Rebel's thread at http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/separation-divorce/275289-crazy-i-think-but-i-love-her-anyway#post3398735. If that description rings a bell, I would be glad to discuss it with you. Take care, Caregiver.

[livingnightmare]

Hi Heatemyheart, the more I look at it your right, I can't believe I put up with the things she said and done it feels so strange as I realize how toxic this relationship was for me and what I have let do to me, I don't know how I can still have this hollow feeling, its strange as I don't actually miss her in her self, but then I miss something.

 

Yes I think I did, I placed it above everything in my life, and when the relationship was over there was nothing to fall back on, I felt stripped naked of everything in life, still do to a degree.

 

I have CBT booked for the end of JAN I cant wait for it to start, I'm unsure if I should ask the doctor for some anti-depressants as I am definitely depressed at the moment. I'm planning to quit smoking new years and owning a few weights n gym equipment I will be putting them to good use again ( I did start for a while gave up all my vices and put weight on) I went through a bad patch and let my self go :-(. Work is top priority and have started looking, I will settle for anything within reason, I believe that will be the key thing to changing my life and moving forward stronger opening up hopefully more social opportunity's.

 

Thanks for responding it really helps my thought patterns when people on here respond, I don't have anyone to talk to. I hope you all the best on your path to recovery.

[livingnightmare]

Thanks for your post downtown it has brought a bit more clarity, I have been looking up these traits and she definitely has them, every last argument she was the "victim" to this day she is the "victim" It really gets to me that she still does this and has dragged my name through the dirt amongst her friends and family.

 

I see so many red flags now its unbelievable, Im kicking myself I could not leave though so many times i was feeling like I should, but I stuck by, I wanted the family unit for my daughter, I couldn't see how destructive this became for me.

 

I will be looking into that book, anything that can help me is worth a try. That was the worst thing that got to me, treading on egg shells, whatever she done got my ready for the final blow.

 

The one thing I don't understand is the traits of these people are to keep you stuck with them? That's the only thing that throws me off that maybe she didn't have it because the way I was dumped was brutal and a kick in the teeth when I was already down, she even new I was diagnosed with major depression because of the relationship and she still ended it with so much anger and hatred. I thought they need you to be with them?

 

When it was ending I really did think I was crazy I believed it so much that I told her I would seek help for my craziness :-/ I can not describe what is the mess still in my head, I have never felt anything like it or anything that has debilitated my day to day running s so much. I feel crazier that I feel this way after so much time.

 

Have to wait till the end of Jan for my CBT I can not afford to go private it is all through the UK nhs.

 

Thank you for highlighting this, it is very interesting. I guess Im looking for a way to take the blame off my shoulders I feel heavily burdened with blame, guilt, regret, fear, despair, bitterness anger hate love confusion bewilderment so many overpowering emotions from all the things I had to hear with the icing on the cake at the end.

 

It has really made me feel worthless, I know I'm not but the scars of the wounds she inflicted have gone deep into the core of my being I could have took the break up, but not having rubbed in my face this stranger, i cant understand what type of person would do that and why. And how I still feel sad or a bond with them :-/

 

Please keep your input coming, I really want to learn more about what the effects are on the people who have had to put up with this. This is my only therapy place at the moment I would be in a darker hole without it.

 

I ordered the book from abandonment to healing which I was advised 4 yrs ago to do, but ended up drinking heavily and stalled my healing I'm suspecting? I will also order the treading on egg shells tonight.

[livingnightmare]

Its crazy how the smallest of words play with your head, I had my daughter with me over christmas, on the friday the ex messaged me saying she hoped we all had a good christmas then went on to say how she deeply missed our daughter.

 

Im so annoyed, she took her from me telling me to think of her while she only thought of her self and sleeping around ( she always used her as a shield in some form) when she was 3 she is now 7 and this is our first Christmas together since, how can it not be recognized in her brain that I miss her deeply, I wanted to raise her with me. This hurts alot.

 

My daughter is starting to ask allot of questions, I need to be careful here, I do not want to lie to her though and I know my ex will give her some bull story. I must tread careful. I often wander if it will effect my daughter in anyway to know why she isnt in a family unit anymore? I made a comment about Katy Perry on youtube saying "Shes gorgeous, I would marry her" as a joke to my daughter and she got upset saying she wants her mommy and daddy to live with her, it was so upsetting to see her like that and that I brought it up and I upset her, I didnt realize it would have that effect. All I could do was tell her that her mommy and daddy both love her and will always be there for her... It makes me so sad.

[Downtown]

That's the only thing that throws me off that maybe she didn't have [bPD] because the way I was dumped was brutal .... I thought they need you to be with them?

No, you are replaceable. A BPDer doesn't need YOU to be with her. Rather, she needs SOMEONE -- anyone actually -- who has a strong personality that will center and ground her, keeping her fractured, unstable personality from shooting off in all directions. But when she gets EXACTLY THAT -- a man who will center her and give her a direction -- she will soon start resenting him because she will feel he is controlling and suffocating her.

 

With a BPDer, then, you are always in a lose-lose situation. If you move close to support her and provide a sense of direction, she will feel suffocated by the intimacy and thus will start an argument to push you away. Yet, as you move back to give her space, you will start triggering her great fear of abandonment.

 

Importantly, this dilemma is unavoidable. It occurs because a BPDer's two great fears -- abandonment and engulfment -- lie on the opposite ends of the VERY SAME spectrum. Sadly, there is no midpoint position where you can safely stand and avoid triggering both fears. That Goldilocks position simply does not exist. I know because I foolishly spent 15 years looking for it.

The one thing I don't understand is the traits of these people are to keep you stuck with them?

Yes, a BPDer has a great fear of abandonment and lives in fear that, one day, you will walk out on her when you realize how empty she is on the inside. This does not mean, however, that the BPDer will not abandon YOU. On the contrary, in BPDer relationships lasting more than two years, it typically is the BPDer -- not her abused partner -- who walks away.

 

The reason is that, as the years go by, the BPDer's fear of abandonment gets greater each year as she sees her body aging. As the same time, she becomes increasingly resentful each year of your failure to make her happy (an impossible task). The result is that a BPDer's fear of abandonment becomes so strong and painful that she will preemptively abandon her partner before he has a chance to do it to her.

 

Because her perception of your actual intentions are distorted by this great fear, it DOES NOT MATTER that you really have no intentions whatsoever of walking out on her. Indeed, you will find it impossible to convince her that you really love her and won't walk out. BPDers therefore typically end the growing pain by walking out themselves, at which time they will quickly attach themselves to another person to avoid being alone. And then the cycle begins anew.

I guess Im looking for a way to take the blame off my shoulders I feel heavily burdened with blame, guilt, regret, fear, despair, bitterness anger hate love confusion bewilderment so many overpowering emotions....

Your ability to simultaneously stay in touch with all of those conflicting intense feelings is a sign of mental health. It shows that you have a sufficiently strong ego that you are willing and able to tolerate strong mixed feelings.

 

In contrast, a BPDer is far too emotionally immature -- and has too fragile an ego -- to be able to do that. BPDers cannot tolerate strong mixed feelings, ambiguities, uncertainties, dualities, or other grey areas in interpersonal relationships. They therefore shoehorn everyone into a black or white box so they can easily know how to deal with them.

 

This is why BPDers categorize everyone as "all good" or "all bad" and, in ten seconds, will recategorize someone from one polar extreme to the other based solely on a minor comment or infraction. This all-or-nothing thinking -- which is called "black-white thinking" -- is a hallmark of people having strong traits of BPD or several other personality disorders.

I received abusive phone calls from the ex, she then cruely told me she picked some stranger up on the weekend and ****ed him all weekend, was put down how it was the best sex she ever had told me what they done and told it was a proper d**k he had not like mine, brought size into it shape and then told me all I was good with was my tounge.

This is an excellent example of black-white thinking. If your exGF is a BPDer, she can flip in ten seconds from adoring you to hating you. When she is perceiving of you as "all bad" (i.e., "splitting you black"), she perceives of you as Hitler incarnate and will treat you the way Adolph should be treated. This B-W thinking also will be evident in the frequent use of all-or-nothing expressions such as "You ALWAYS..." and "You NEVER...."

It has really made me feel worthless, I know I'm not but the scars of the wounds she inflicted have gone deep into the core of my being....

No, she did not "make you feel" anything. How you felt was your choice and your doing. Moreover, the toxicity in your relationship is not something "SHE inflicted" on you. Rather, that toxicity is something that you BOTH inflicted on each other. The only way two people can remain in a toxic relationship for six years is when BOTH parties are willing participants. Of course, HER contribution to the toxicity (e.g., the verbal abuse and temper tantrums) is easy to see.

 

YOUR contribution, however, is much harder to see because -- after all -- you thought all along that you were only trying to help her. Yet, if your exGF is a BPDer (i.e., has strong traits), your enabling behavior was not helping her. On the contrary, it was harming her. One reason is that, despite all your efforts to calm her and sooth her, your mere presence in the room was serving to frequently trigger both of her two fears.

 

Another reason you were harming her is that, by enabling her to continue behaving like a spoiled child and get away with it, you were destroying all her opportunities to have to confront her issues and learn how to manage them. By always "walking on eggshells" as you say, you were harming her by protecting her from suffering the logical consequences of her own bad behavior and bad choices. Sadly, as long as she doesn't have to suffer those logical consequences, she has no incentive to grow up and learn more mature ways of relating to other people.

I know she was toxic for me.

It would be more accurate to say that you both were toxic for each other. I mention this because, as long as you continue to think of yourself as a helpless victim that SHE did things to, you will not understand the damaging role you played as the "enabler" in the relationship. Until you understand your role in that toxic relationship, you are at great risk of leaving that woman only to run into the arms of another one just like her. As I noted above, anyone who chooses to remain in a toxic relationship for six years is not a VICTIM but, rather, a WILLING PARTICIPANT and, thus, part of the problem.

I lost all my friends in the relationship.

If your exGF is a BPDer, that outcome is to be expected. Due to her great fear of abandonment, a BPDer will try to isolate her partner away from all of his friends and close family members. By removing his support network, she is better able to control him so as to prevent him from abandoning her.

Paying towards my daughter and thats it I have no life, I have no money no house nothing, at 34 I feel so lost in life. I cant see how I can get out of this.

Yes, that is a terrible, painful feeling. But it is only a FEELING. Don't believe it. Instead, when you get intense feelings like that, intellectually challenge them with the logical, rational part of your mind. Sadly, BPDers are unable to do that.

 

Instead, in the same way that very young children do, BPDers accept those intense feelings as accurate reflections of reality. They therefore mistakenly perceive FEELINGS to be self evident FACTS. Of course, this is why it is impossible to sit down and have a rational discussion on any sensitive subject with a BPDer. She will be absolutely convinced that her feeling MUST be true.

Please keep your input coming, I really want to learn more about what the effects are on the people who have had to put up with this.

LN, while you are waiting for your IC appointment at the end of January, I offer the following suggestions.

 

As an initial matter, given that you believe your exGF is exhibiting most BPD warning signs at a strong level, I recommend that you NOT tell her. If she is a BPDer, she almost certainly will project the accusation right back onto you, believing YOU to be the BPDer. Instead, simply encourage her to see a good psychologist (not a MC) and let the psych decide what to tell her.

 

Second, I agree with you that it would be prudent to read a BPD book (targeted to the abused partners) such as Stop Walking on Eggshells. Another best seller is I Hate You, Don't Leave Me.

 

Third, I suggest you start participating (or at least lurking) at BPDfamily.com -- the largest and most active BPD forum I've found that is devoted fully to the abused ex-partners and family members of BPDers. This issue is such an enormous problem that that website is growing by 20 new members every day. The result is that it offers eight separate message boards on various BPD issues. The ones that likely will be most helpful to you are the "Leaving" board and "Parenting after the Split" board.

 

Fourth, while you are at BPDfamily.com, I suggest you read the excellent articles in their resources section. My favorite is article #9 at T9 Surviving a Break-up with Someone Suffering with Borderline Personality Disorder - Columbia University, New York.

 

Fifth, I suggest that, whenever your financial situation improves, you see a clinical psychologist -- for a visit or two by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you and your young daughter are dealing with. As I've explained in other threads, your best chance of getting a candid opinion regarding a possible BPD diagnosis is to NOT have the BPDer along. Therapists are loath to tell high functioning BPDers the name of the disorder.

 

Finally, please don't forget those of us on this LS forum. We want to keep trying to answer your questions and providing emotional support as long as you find our shared experiences helpful. Moreover, by sharing your own experiences here, you likely are helping many other members and lurkers.

[livingnightmare]

Downtown your knowledge on this matter is very enlightening to me, I have read your post over and over and I am learning so much, I will be back on later to give a more detailed response as I process this wealth of information to clarity, I am looking at the links you have given me I recognise so much in them.. I feel a weight lifting slightly off my shoulders. :-)

[FortunateSon]

Very insightful post, Downtown. After reading that, it is clear that my ex displayed a lot of BPD traits. This has made me rethink a lot about my break up.

[Downtown]

LN and FortunateSon, I'm glad to hear you both found the BPD information helpful. I caution, however, that BPD is a "spectrum disorder," which means every adult on the planet has all of the BPD traits to some degree, albeit at a low level if the person is healthy. At issue, then, is not whether your Ex exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do.

 

Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits BPD traits at a strong and persistent level. Not having met her, I cannot know the answer to that question. I nonetheless am confident that you guys can spot any strong warning signs (i.e., symptoms) that are present. There is absolutely nothing subtle about red flags such as strong verbal abuse, temper tantrums, irrational jealousy, and always being "The Victim."

[AnyaNova]

LN and FortunateSon, I'm glad to hear you both found the BPD information helpful. I caution, however, that BPD is a "spectrum disorder," which means every adult on the planet has all of the BPD traits to some degree, albeit at a low level if the person is healthy. At issue, then, is not whether your Ex exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do.

 

Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits BPD traits at a strong and persistent level. Not having met her, I cannot know the answer to that question. I nonetheless am confident that you guys can spot any strong warning signs (i.e., symptoms) that are present. There is absolutely nothing subtle about red flags such as strong verbal abuse, temper tantrums, irrational jealousy, and always being "The Victim."

 

The point about every adult having some of the traits in some circumstances but not strongly cannot be emphasized enough.

 

My therapist in fact mentioned that a fun evening can be had searching through the DSM for personality disorders, because of the spectrum factor, how disconcerting it can be to see how many traits one can oneself having expressed in various circumstances.

 

And I could see given my variable moods when my vitamin levels are crashing, how easily my ex could say to himself that I might have this. Remember too that many psychological conditions can be secondary to a primary physical condition.

 

Though the OP's ex sounds like quite the prize (insert sarcasm here).

Edited December 31, 2013 by AnyaNova

[livingnightmare]

Im not quite with it tonight.

 

Once again tonight I feel down, something always happens, small things.

 

I am trying to come to an arrangement with family that I can go complete no contact with my ex I really feel that I need it. My mother said she would help me out after having another heart to heart.

 

Last week I found it ever so hard to concentrate fully with my daughter as she stopped over christmas because of whatever goes through my mind at times, I love her so much, but I really struggle when I feel like this though I wont show it her.

 

When she went home through my mother it was arranged through her that she would stop NYE, now I am happy she is here, I just wish that I was asked, I'm sick of the ex always dumping her off at party times, and their are lots of those, that's how it feels, I actually had plans with some friends I don't see that often from years back that I felt like I needed to do, I need to relax, I never go out properly and felt like I needed this. And on top of knowing that she will probably get drunk and sleep around I feel guilty that I want to go out instead of be in.

 

Well before my daughter got here I asked my mother what was happening and was told she's going to arrange it, I never thought nothing off it until my EX came round to drop my daughter off with full knowledge of my mother. I know it is not my mothers responsibility, but she keeps continually doing this, It keeps knocking me back each time, and when I explain it and think they understand because I'm told that she does It happens again. I'm tearing my hair out at the moment, but I cant do anything to get it out my system because I have my daughter to look after. At the same time I know she is better off here than there in some aspects.

 

Its hard enough knowing my family have shown her the same friendliness and openness, presents cards the works from day 1 till this day and not one person said he didn't deserve all that or why did you do this, nothing, that hurts me too and adds into the mix of things, I even had her brought round the house by my dad after the split to collect some stuff simply because " she hadn't done anything wrong to him" I specifically asked him not to and why, it could have been arranged in a different way. I feel like they have validated her and neglected me in many ways, I explain this is effecting the way Im dealing with matters and it really is, it is interfering with my interaction with my daughter, Its like I'm not fully there, I'm getting there, then bang, back to square one.

 

I need a good long time away from seeing my EX at one point I never seen her at all and other arrangements were made and I felt much better. Not seeing straight at the moment. This is effecting so many areas of my life most importantly my concentration with my daughter.

[livingnightmare]

Feel better than last night.

 

I have registered with bpd family, but have yet to post as I process what I'm learning.

 

I see BPD traits in myself as was said everyone has them, but I'm sure it was down to circumstances of stress I was going through.

 

Why do some of these BPD people inflict so much pain intentionally (thats if she was BPD I strongly think she is now, she has so many of the traits), I just cant get out my head the way my ex told me she was in her words "f***ing a stranger all weekend" with graphic details on positions and such Its hard to take in that someone you love can inflict this cruelty, there was no need to say it. And now telling everyone I abused her, she even said she will pray for me at church.... once I had deep faith in God and she never, now I have no faith and she has faith. Its like she deeply believes she was the victim in every form, I wonder if she will ever realize how much hurt she has inflicted into my life. I never had any form of mental health problems in my life till I was with her, cant believe I feel like this, I should be happy not to be in it, now I understand the effects of psychological abuse first hand it sucks

 

sometimes I wonder being my first love and mother of my child will I ever heal from this? At the moment I feel as if Im deeply scarred in my mind, Im scared to look for a partner in case I'm rejected in case I'm hurt again and my lifes so unstable at the moment I have nothing to offer anyway.

 

Dam I have some work to do on myself this year.

Edited January 1, 2014 by livingnightmare

[Heatemyheart89]

Hello

I think nc with her is the best thing you can do. I think you will heal, actually I know you will. What you need to do is focus on yourself. It is difficult but if you do there is so much better out there for you than her! Let her sleep around she seems mental. People like that are very manipulative and it seems like she has conned your parents into thinking she's okay. It is irritating but just focus on you and your daughter. I hope 2014 will be a better year for you. You are right you need some stability before you have a new partner. She is out there though. You have the CBT coming up and I hope it really helps you!

[Downtown]

Why do some of these BPD people inflict so much pain intentionally?

LN, if she is a full-blown narcissist or sociopath then, yes, the abusive remarks likely are intended to hurt you. With BPDers, however, most of the hurtful, outrageous allegations coming out of their mouths are motivated by fear -- not by a desire to hurt you. As I noted earlier, BPDers project hurtful thoughts and feelings onto you (at a subconscious level) and thus consciously are convinced these allegations are absolutely true.

 

That said, BPDers sometimes will split you black and become convinced you are the devil incarnate -- at which times they can quickly become extremely vindictive, wanting to hurt you. Yet, in asking WHY they do this, you are essentially asking why someone with the emotional development of a four year old would throw temper tantrums. They do it because they have little control over their emotions. They never learned how to do self soothing, how to distract their minds, or how to intellectually challenge the accuracy of those emotions.

 

The result is that their out-of-control emotions produce extremely intense feelings that distort their perception of other peoples' intentions and motivations. This is why it is common for a BPDer to make such outrageous accusations that you will simply marvel than any adult can say such a thing while holding a straight face.

And now telling everyone I abused her, she even said she will pray for me at church.

Similarly, my exW alienated me from my five step children (all adults) by telling them I had brutalized her and had been telling her lies every week. Indeed, she had me arrested on a bogus charge and thrown into jail for three days, giving her time to obtain a R/O barring me from returning to my own home for 18 months (the time it took her to obtain a divorce in this State). BPDers are very convincing to other people because they truly believe much of the outrageous things they are saying.

[livingnightmare]

Hi Heatemyheart89

Thanks for your kind words, I've got everything arranged for no contact properly now, had to show my mother a few of the links on here and why I need to go no contact, I think she understands clearer now. Here's to 2014! A better year for us all.

 

Hello DownTown,

Your posts are very helpful it has put things in a different perspective for me, one that takes a bit of a burden of my shoulders, it always felt that she was confusing my intentions in the wrong way, no wonder I was always getting accused of crazy stuff that I couldn't figure out for the life of me where it was coming from.

 

Does the bpder have to have all the traits or can they show only some? As a few of the traits I don't think she had unless I somehow couldn't see them or realize they were there.

 

The more I think about it though there is definitley some sort of disorder here, The fact that she believes she never ever started an arguement in the whole 6 yrs and I was to blame for every single 1 is quiet alarming, also the way she says I only wanted her to stay with me so I could abuse her is so far from the truth its shocking, and I get the impression she really believes it. Its quiet sad that she will probably never get sorted out what ever is in her head as I know she would never think there is anything wrong with her. I do think her upbringing and the sexual abuse by her father has played a big part in how she treated me. I notice that is common with bpders too.

 

On a brighter note completely out of the blue when I didn't expect it,without going out my way or even looking I had 2 communicate with 2 separate very nice looking women at different times during the day who gave me there phone numbers after talking to them briefly, one in a local shop and the other was asking for directions as she was new in the area, I didn't even ask, I'm in shock... This has never happened before in my life

 

I must admit it has made me feel allot happier in myself and has given me a massive self esteem boost, but I also realise I need to be able to get that happiness without anyone giving it to me, none the less it felt great

Edited January 3, 2014 by livingnightmare

[Downtown]

Does the bpder have to have all the traits or can they show only some?

LN, only some (at least 5 of the 9) are required to be strong and persistent in order to satisfy the criteria for having full-blown BPD, according to the APA's diagnostic manual (DSM-5). The nine traits are listed at NIMH · Borderline Personality Disorder. Most BPDers therefore do not have all nine traits.

 

Moreover, people having strong traits of one PD generally also have one or two traits of another PD as well (together with one or two clinical disorders such as depression or ADHD). A recent study of BPDers found that 75% of them have one or two co-occurring PDs. About 40% also have narcissism (NPD), for example, and 37% have Schizotypal PD (which is very different from schizophrenia). See PubMed Central, Table 3: J Clin Psychiatry. 2008 April; 69(4): 533?545.

The more I think about it though there is definitley some sort of disorder here.

As I noted above, if she has strong traits of one disorder, she likely has strong traits of at least one more as well. Significantly, having several different PDs is NOT like having several diseases at once. Indeed, BPD and other PDs are not believed to be diseases at all. Rather, they are only groups of behaviors that are dysfunctional at strong levels -- and that therapists often see occurring together in their clients.

She believes she never ever started an argument in the whole 6 yrs and I was to blame for every single 1.

This warning sign is most strongly associated with BPDers (who seek validation of their false self image of being the eternal victim) and narcissists (who seek validation of their false self image of being perfect).

I know she would never think there is anything wrong with her.

BPDers generally are aware that something is wrong with them. Likewise, they generally are aware that their false self image is false -- which is why they often may feel "fake" and empty inside. Yet, because they are filled with self loathing and shame, they generally will not admit to this except during those rare "moments of clarity" which are brought on by a crisis. And those "moments" are short lived.

 

Narcissists, in contrast, are so totally out of touch with their real selves that they generally do not realize that their false self image is false. Thinking it to be true, they seek constant validation from others that this self image is indeed the real self. Hence, BPDers and narcissists are both loath to admit mistakes and flaws -- but for very different reasons.

I had 2 communicate with 2 separate very nice looking women at different times during the day who gave me there phone numbers .... I didn't even ask, I'm in shock... This has never happened before in my life.

Divine providence perhaps?

[livingnightmare]

I do feel like it has taken some blame of me learning about these personality disorders DownTown, but I feel down tonight, whatever it is she has it doesnt change how deep she has hurt me, I am starting to feel afraid that I still love her and somehow I want her back in my subconscious mind? Maybe I had been hoping she would come back apologizing some time and realize how much hurt she has caused? dam I just want her out my head. I feel so confused on how I got here and how someone could inflict this kind of wound on some one then blame them for it.

 

Its been since 2006 all this started, If only I had more experience in relationships I would have walked when It felt I was a stranger to her, cant believe how happy and strong I was mentally before all this and how I feel now and how long I let her chip away at me.

 

Do people get fully over this kind of hurt fully without meeting someone new?

 

It really doesn't feel like it now these feelings have emerged out the blue, they feel so yesterday and raw, It is scary to think they persist and will there be a let up some time. Feeling really lost and depressed in life at the moment.

[Downtown]

LN, after being in a toxic relationship on/off for 6 years, you cannot expect to fully heal in 5 or 6 months. It may take at least a year, perhaps two. When my 15 year marriage ended, I had no desire to date anyone for over two years -- and I probably should have waited at least 3 years. You are healing but the process is not linear. This means you will not heal a little bit every day. Rather, you can expect to make some progress for a week and then, one day, you will wake up feeling like you are back at square one -- with the pain being as intense as ever.

 

What will happen, though, is that those bad days will get farther and farther apart until, eventually, they won't reappear. Hence, having a really bad day -- or bad evening as is now occurring -- does NOT mean you are back at square one even though that is exactly how it feels. Because toxic relationships have an addictive quality to them, it can be very painful to withdraw from them and the process takes time.

[livingnightmare]

I feel like everything that was said to me, all the hurtful things have been in my mind for too long now, I feel I have told myself them and believed in them for to long, I struggle not to, this has really messed up how I feel about myself, I once believed in myself highly I don't know how I've got feeling so low in myself, I feel at times its what I deserved, I heard so much negativity aimed at my whole being I would crack up after not been able to communicate in the most basic of ways i would respond back from being wound up so much and say things at times in sheer frustration at what i was hearing or being ignored with all the sighs huffs puffs, heavy handedness for what reasons I dont know.

 

I even dropped down to name calling after being insulted about my race my family me as a being, trying to hit me in my penis as a joke constantly, ( to me it was no joke) pinching my nipples and could never understand why I couldnt take it as a joke, being called a looser constantly, threatened that other men would raise my kids. A few times I kicked doors on the way out as Im being thrown out the house and dumped whilst having my belongings thrown onto the street in front of everyone out of our joint property for talking at the crucial part in xfactor or being on my computer for 20 mins and not being around her, so if i was with her it was a problem and if I wasnt it was.

 

I wish I never let myself get pushed that far, I cant help but feel If I had dealt with this in a different way, I also felt trapped to a degree, I just could never see me abandoning my daughters family unit. Feeling lost in life at the moment, if I new how to deal with this this wouldn't have happened, and she couldn't say I verbally abused her then, I never done anything like that with anyone before I was pushed so much though, only I will ever know, but I cant help but feel bad about it, what kills just as much was she said it was things I said to her that wanted her to end it also, I know I shouldn't, but I cant help blaming myself. I should have left, but I didn't think it would ever come to this. Wish I could just switch this off, it is draining me in every way.

 

Is this still abuse when you have been pushed and pushed and you say the names slut, bitch, slag? I feel so guilty for saying them, when I was insulted deeply and after I new about the cheating and once she kept refusing to talk to me about what happened kept lying I would use them, I stopped but after her not helping me get through the cheating, when she would rage or be cold with me and insult my family threaten me with my daughter etc I couldnt understand why she could still have her crazy mood swings with me over I dont know? I would use these words more often, but not after trying my hardest to ignore everything and be calm about it for days at a time, trying to bite my tounge, but it would get to much to take eventually.

 

Dam I should have walked.... what a mess, I cant help but feel I shouldn't have let myself get wound up so much, but then why should I have taken it constantly, never knowing what 1 day would bring to the next.

 

I know deep down I was suffering high abuse and my response was a culmination of it but I just go round in circles in my mind, I have tried so hard to let go, Its like its stuck to me.

 

I really hope my CBT sessions help, struggling to feel like this day in day out, scared it will never go. I also have developed a deep fear as my father is 84 and his health is going down, if something happens to him, how I would cope loosing someone else on top of this, I know I shouldnt feel like this, but the world feels a cold heartless place right now full of pain and misery and suffering I wish I could wake up and this is a dream and the hurt is gone, it was all taken back. Damn at times I feel like I havent accepted it yet..

 

It doesnt help that its been so long, it makes me feel like I am really weak mentally so no wonder I feel like this, and deserve it for being so weak.

 

Confused isn't even the word right now, to many things filter through my head.

[livingnightmare]

LN, after being in a toxic relationship on/off for 6 years, you cannot expect to fully heal in 5 or 6 months. It may take at least a year, perhaps two. When my 15 year marriage ended, I had no desire to date anyone for over two years -- and I probably should have waited at least 3 years. You are healing but the process is not linear. This means you will not heal a little bit every day. Rather, you can expect to make some progress for a week and then, one day, you will wake up feeling like you are back at square one -- with the pain being as intense as ever.

 

What will happen, though, is that those bad days will get farther and farther apart until, eventually, they won't reappear. Hence, having a really bad day -- or bad evening as is now occurring -- does NOT mean you are back at square one even though that is exactly how it feels. Because toxic relationships have an addictive quality to them, it can be very painful to withdraw from them and the process takes time.

 

Its been 4 yrs DownTown since the breakup, I went through the stage of thinking I was over her for a long time not thinking of her at all and if I did no pain at all in any way, I cant understand why its back so raw.

[Downtown]

Its been 4 yrs DownTown since the breakup, I went through the stage of thinking I was over her for a long time not thinking of her at all and if I did no pain at all in any way, I cant understand why its back so raw.

LN, from what you've written in your other threads, it sure sounds like you were subjected to so much abuse, vindictiveness, and downright cruelty (e.g., running off with your D for a while) that you no longer love her. Indeed, you were saying you really do not want her back. I therefore suspect that something has triggered your depression and you are feeling a lot of pain, which you are attributing to her in an attempt to make sense out of it all.

 

If so, do you have any idea what the triggering event is? Do you have any history of suffering from bipolar disorder or regular depression? Why have you not gone back to the doctor who treated you four years ago for depression and thoughts of suicide?

I really hope my CBT sessions help.

I believe you will find that the CBT will allow you to greatly strengthen your emotional core. Unlike conventional talk therapy, CBT will teach you specific skills for dealing with these stressful periods in which you are pulled down by nagging doubts and feelings of inadequacy. Edited January 5, 2014 by Downtown

[livingnightmare]

DT Im really confused on what I feel, 1 minute I'm feeling deep anger and bitterness at her and myself, next minute there is an empty hole that no matter what I try or do cannot be filled.

 

2 incidents happend first which I cant remeber what order, but they tie in together which led to the third.

 

I was watching a music video with my daughter and I said to my daughter I would marry the singer for a joke, my daughter got upset and said I'm not allowed a GF and she doesnt want a step mom, this got to me for upsetting her and that her mother and father not being together was out of my hands.

 

The second incident, I had added a friend on FB and he had my ex in his friends list, this brought up deep anger that she can add my friends after everything she done, people know we split, but I hadn't told them how, this brought up feelings that maybe to show her face she must be making stuff up about me.

 

This led on to me foolishly sending a text.. In the text I asked why did she tell me about this stranger from a club straight after we split. It created so much anger and pain for me, the anger and pain I am feeling now, the devastation, betrayel, the worthlessness. I said we have a daughter together why did you just not leave me and keep all this stuff to yourself, (I cannot understand how someone can do this surely they must know what pain this would cause?)

 

I got the responce that I never loved her and that I was emotionaly abusing her and only wanted her to stay so I can abuse her some more...

 

This is what has triggered it, I thought maybe she would apologize and understand what she put me through, that would have helped me forgive her,

But It ended like the same head bashing against a wall from when we were together, Its like she really believes in her heart and soul I was bad to her, but skips out all the things she done to get me to that point.

 

This is so untrue I loved her with all my heart, I loved our family, I tried so hard to save it, as I said my outbursts were a build up of so many things ontop of verbal attacks. things she would say and do, but she completely ignores any wrong doing on her part... This has really knocked me back, wayy back.

 

Even the few times I kicked the doors didnt start happening till after a glass just missed my face in the kitchen because I was talking to her as she watched TV she got crazy because she couldnt hear it and when I asked why cant she just ask nicely instead of going from zero to 100% anger.

 

I feel like I took on her, like when she steeped up a mark I would eventually try to follow, but I couldnt keep up and was being dragged into something I completely lost control over from frustration.

 

I should never have sent that text, I hope someone learns from this lesson.

 

I feel I should never see this woman again untill Im fully healed.

 

Im now going full no contact again, in the hope I can find some inner peace to give me a foundation to work from.

 

I hope so to DT, I really need something to help, I think my mind state has worn so low for a long period it has had devastating effects on my mind.

 

I never had any mental health issue before in my life untill I found out about the cheating and everything I new wasnt real anymore, breaking my feet solidified it and at the minimum at a low level it has been there since but aggravated when she left and the circumstances and been blamed for it.

 

When she left I had already been diagnosed with major depression and was taking fluoxetine she new full well about that and she still decided to throw more hurt my way by telling me about that stranger. The words just ring in my head how worthless I am, how bad in bed I was, I weak I am, how pathetic what a looser etc

 

I seriously don't get it, why would someone do this? I feel it so personal I cant escape that this was a personal attack on me and my physical/mental being. I wasn't brought up to do things like this, even if I had left her after all she put me through I wouldnt make any added pain. Having them done to me has ripped through to my core beliefs, changed so much through all this, physically and mentally, just a shell of my former self.

[fixing]

She is borderline evil mate. Twisted, vindictive and cruel. And a ****ing cheating whore! She seems to know what nasty things to say to push buttons in you. She is an emotional abuser, the WORST KIND OF ABUSE.

I hope you can keep your daughter away from her because she isnt fit to be a mother.

 

Have you ever sought therapy? Emotional abuse leaves lasting effects on your mind.

You need to stop drinking too. That will exacerbate your depression and low self esteem.

 

You gotta try and force her from your mind the moment she enters your thoughts.

 

NO CONTACT, and start to love yourself again. Stop trying to question and reason with the unreasonable. She is UNREASONABLE. Thats it.

 

Go out and start casual dating again. Birmingham is a big city, plenty of lovely women out there that will love to be in your arms.

[livingnightmare]

Your right Fixer Its just hard to take in still. Apart from ruining for the time being any potential activities that my daughter can see us all together partake in, the breaking up of the family unit, she does look after her well. I remember the ex telling me after my daughter was born that she now has someone to love her. I think because of my exs childhood that this has something to do with it. I feel like I was cast aside once she had that unconditional love. I dread the future, and what may happen on my daughters path growing up, what lessons she will be taught from her mother. She plans to move city with her.

 

I got CBT at the end of the month, I can not stress how much I long to start it.

 

The thoughts are really strong, I do try to block them, but without much of a friend network and no money nothing to do I find it hard to distract myself.

 

I got the no contact sorted out now I just hope its stuck to by her as I intend to. Yeah I have lost some serious love for myself I try to love myself then all matter of thoughts appear and I blame myself for all this that its my doing, I need to fight harder as that was where my frustration started with her it was all down to her never being reasonable, even when it was staring her in the face and when challenged with logic it was taken as a personal assault.

 

I been thinking of going out soon, I just sometimes don't feel like I am confident enough, good looking enough, I dont have it in me to dance ( as I look like a right twat when I do lol), dam even if I pulled I would have to take them to my parents (they are hard core religious) as I had to move back there and am struggling to get the money to move out. I cant help but look bleak on everything. Really hope this CBT will help me change myself for the better.