Author iceisles Posted January 5, 2005 Author Share Posted January 5, 2005 Originally posted by 7on You can try suggesting friends with benefits (minus sex, funny how I have to explain that to everyone I tell it to). This girl I'm friends with suggested that after we talked. I'm sure I could have gotten her to be my gf right then, if I had been more "romantic" and comfortable talking about sex with her. She wants to be FWB to see how I react with those subjects (though without sex until there is a serious commitment). No sweat for me since I'm the romantic machine, I just don't like advertising it to friends who are potential mate material. 7on - While I am always open to FWB, I don't think this girl would respond well to such a proposition. She's very conservative and I would hate to do, say, or suggest anything that might negatively impact my chances with her down the road. FWB can be great if both people are fully aware that's all it is. I think the problem you run into sometimes is that one person will become more emotionally attached than the other, which is fine if the other partner comes around and also wants a relationship together. But conflicts can arise when one person wants FWB, while the other wants something more. Even though I would like to date her one day, I still think suggesting FWB wouldn't be a good idea given her conservative nature and recent distrust of guys. That said, I have always been willing to do the FWB thing. I know some may disagree, but I think it can actually bring two friends a lot closer as long as you don't run into that one attached/one not scenario. And considering how many relationships are unsuccessful, I've never seen any problem with having fun with a friend - either as a barometer of how well you might get along together in a relationship, or simply to just have a little fun to relieve some stress, etc., with no strings attached. Link to post Share on other sites
alphamale Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 Originally posted by iceisles And considering how many relationships are unsuccessful, I've never seen any problem with having fun with a friend - either as a barometer of how well you might get along together in a relationship, or simply to just have a little fun to relieve some stress, etc., with no strings attached. ICICLES: how old are u? 22 or 23? he heh he. you have much to learn abouts womyns. Link to post Share on other sites
Author iceisles Posted January 5, 2005 Author Share Posted January 5, 2005 Originally posted by alphamale ICICLES: how old are u? 22 or 23? he heh he. you have much to learn abouts womyns. I'm 25. First, you have to learn that my screename is iceisles and not the frozen formations that hang from your house in cold weather. Also, what exactly are "womyns"? Maybe I should buy a book to find out "abouts" them myself. Link to post Share on other sites
alphamale Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 Originally posted by iceisles I'm 25. First, you have to learn that my screename is iceisles and not the frozen formations that hang from your house in cold weather. Also, what exactly are "womyns"? Maybe I should buy a book to find out "abouts" them myself. womyn = girl all i can say ICEISLES is that in the next 10 or 15 yrs you'll learn much about women, much of it will not be pretty or painless. he he he.....i'm glad I don't have to go thru that krap again. (i'm going to be 40 in March, btw) alpha Link to post Share on other sites
guest Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 Hey there iceisles! I'm in the same boat - except I'm female. I met this great guy that I'm extremely interested in dating... however he's fresh out of a relationship and is on the rebound. I'm not interested in being stuck in the friendship zone, don't want to be a doormat either. I would like be there for him as much as possible - but I also hope that down the road I'll be considered. I'm torn on how to approach this. We've seen each other a few times, we've kissed passionately, we talk on the phone very occasionally and he's mentioned wanting to take me out. On the flip side of all the great mentioned above... he does not contact me on a "regular" basis, nor has he mentioned gettig together on a weekend (it's been week nights only). If i call him, I usually get his voice mail and it takes him a couple days to return the call. I don't call him often either though... and very rarely do I initiate a text message or phone call to him. I'm kind of sitting here waiting for him to make his move... I like what you said about you'd rather fail trying - than regret not making enough effort. I've always been chased, I've gotten so used to guys calling me etc... that I'm new to this angle. I don't want to come off as desperate, needy or clingy... but I want to make my point that I am interested and I do look forward to his calls etc... From a guys perspective... how would you want a girl to tell you she interested? Shoudl I even bother knowing he's fresh out of a relationship? I can't fill his ex's shoes and would not want even try... Link to post Share on other sites
Author iceisles Posted January 5, 2005 Author Share Posted January 5, 2005 Hey guest - your situation sounds very similar to mine. I will tell you, as a guy, I would love for a girl to pursue me, though that has only happened once in my life. Most times, it involves at least moderate effort on my part. I think a lot of girls still believe a guy should do the courting, and I can understand that. I do believe the girl I am interested in is that way - she happily responds to my calls, e-mails, etc., but rarely initiates contact. When we talked about getting together, she only mentioned it sparsely but was enthusiastic when I brought it up. I think most of the advice is in this thread will apply to you, as well. I would call or e-mail (not both) him maybe once every 2-3 days. IMO, you can probably get away contacting a guy more often as they are less likely to be uncomfortable with that. It has been suggested that I not go overboard with my love interest, and I do follow their logic. I want to be there for her, but have to ensure that I just won't become a good friend. Thankfully, I am getting the feeling that I can be there for her and she will still know that my interests are romantic in nature (I made it pretty obvious). If he's fresh out of a relationship, don't expect to get an easy read on him anytime soon. He probably has a whirlwind of thoughts in his mind, and while you are one of them, it probably all seems a little confusing right now. Just give him the appropriate amount of space, remain a good friend, and be assured that things will work out in time. I think as the days go by, you will get a feel for how often you can contact him so that you're not bothering him or being sucked into the dreaded "friends zone." I'm glad to know there are others out there dealing with the same predicament. We can set sail on this boat together. Link to post Share on other sites
Kate Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 alphamale sounds like a bitter, bored 40 year old man who has only dated tacky women who are below him. i think that you, (ice---whatever sorry i forget the spelling) are on the right track by being positive and respectful. i have been hurt and burned, but i am always a classy woman who respects any man who comes my way. i don't cause them pain or drama like alphamale has expressed you will endure. not everyone goes through that. of course he won't have to go through that again -- he is well past his prime!! unless, that is, he lives in west palm beach where he will be considered a spring chicken and can find an inexperienced and un-jaded 18 year old -- those kind of wymons or whatever he calls women accept old dirty men who are bitter and jaded and can't wait to find a nice young piece that will give them what they feel they missed out on and deserved. by the way, alphamale, i'm 26 and glad i don't have to wait until i'm 40 to understand these kinds of basics. Link to post Share on other sites
XNemesisX Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 Alphamale, For some reason I was thinking you were probably in my age range (I'm almost 22) I'm sure Alpha has had some terrible breakups and heartache for him to be as cynical as he is. Alpha doesn't offend me...I think he has just been hurt a lot. Alpha, what is your story? Maybe we can help. I'm sorry you have went through a lot of heartache in your life. I'm nearly 22 but sometimes I worry that is all I will have coming to me. What would you say has made you feel as cynical as you are? And don't mention generalizations like "all women are illogical and evil" etc etc...is there something more specific? You need a hug! Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 Hey Iceisles - thanks for the reply. I initiated a call 2 days ago, left a short message just saying hi... no return call. I don't think I'm cut out for chasing someone - honestly. I'm way too used to having guys calls me and pursue me. There's nothing wrong with it being the other way around... but I'm in over my head in chasing someone fresh out of a relationship... I'll become impatient and take it as a "hint" that he's not interested. (As I've already done)... I've thrown in the towel. I think in my particular case I just need to back off and let him sort his stuff out. I don't want to be a confusion or a temp distraction to his situation... as well I don't know the full story on his ex. I don't know if she's still in the picture, if it ever really ended etc. It's peculiar that when I call him he does not pick up the phone... It usually rings and rings and then I get VM. Granted my timing can be totally messed up... I know that him dealing with his ex is not the only thing going on - perhaps it's all just bad timing. He's mid moving, then the ex thing, has work, then the holidays - etc... all round just bad timing. I think for me I just need to get my focus back on my work and my life. I've spent too much time thinking about this, trying to figure out what XYZ means etc - it's counter productive. I feel I've voiced my thoughts and somewhat demonstrated my feelings. I've told him I look forward to seeing him, said things to the effect of I miss you and can't wait to see you... I've greeted him with kisses and cuddles etc... Anyway I think I just need to back off and let him come to me when he's ready... I won't put my life on hold - so if I'm dating someone when he's ready then tuff luck - I guess. I'll keep you posted and I really hope you keep us posted on your progress. Best of luck and I hope it goes the way you want it to. Link to post Share on other sites
Author iceisles Posted January 6, 2005 Author Share Posted January 6, 2005 Hey guest - I think you are handling things very well. Both of our romantic interests seem to have a lot of things they need to sort out right now, and it's best that we just remain in the background until they (hopefully) come looking for us. Sometimes it's really hard when you want to delve into something and the other person isn't quite ready. I do feel your situation has a lot of potential, so try and hang in there the best you can. As much as I like this girl, I have shelved my romantic pursuit of her indefinitely. I will look to date other people and just move forward with my life. I have learned to not wait around for things that may or not occur, and I really do believe that's what meant to be will eventually happen. Definitely keep us updated with any new developments in your situation and I will do the same. Link to post Share on other sites
alphamale Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 Originally posted by iceisles Both of our romantic interests seem to have a lot of things they need to sort out right now, and it's best that we just remain in the background until they (hopefully) come looking for us. Sometimes it's really hard when you want to delve into something and the other person isn't quite ready. If a woman wants to really and truly be with you then she will go OUT OF HER WAY to be with you. If she does not want to be with you, she will use one of a thousand excuses... Link to post Share on other sites
Mustard Bomb Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 It's interesting and frustrating to think that many women are using behavioural codes very similar to alphamale's - The Rules is the usual example of this kind of thing. Most of this discourse would vehemently and explicitly forbid this kind of behviour: If a woman wants to really and truly be with you then she will go OUT OF HER WAY to be with you. But she won't, no matter how high the level of interest, no matter how cocky or funny you've been, if she has been socialized to believe men chase, women wait. Showing too much interest in a man is sometimes considered shameful, desperate, or indicative that one is not good enough to be a proper object. It's all so lame. Indeed, if both sexes followed player philosophy properly, no one would ever, ever, get laid. This saddens me, as people should get laid. Link to post Share on other sites
Author iceisles Posted January 6, 2005 Author Share Posted January 6, 2005 Originally posted by Mustard Bomb It's all so lame. Indeed, if both sexes followed player philosophy properly, no one would ever, ever, get laid. This saddens me, as people should get laid. This cracked me up. Lol. Very interesting take on things. Link to post Share on other sites
Author iceisles Posted January 6, 2005 Author Share Posted January 6, 2005 Originally posted by alphamale If a woman wants to really and truly be with you then she will go OUT OF HER WAY to be with you. If she does not want to be with you, she will use one of a thousand excuses... That is not my perception at all. I think a lot of women still like to be courted and feel that this is very important part of the early evolution of a relationship. It would be good to get a few more female perspetives on this, because I don't think a lot of interested girls will go out of their way like a guy would. Link to post Share on other sites
alphamale Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 Originally posted by Mustard Bomb But she won't, no matter how high the level of interest, no matter how cocky or funny you've been, if she has been socialized to believe men chase, women wait. Showing too much interest in a man is sometimes considered shameful, desperate, or indicative that one is not good enough to be a proper object. Let me reiterate for 20th time that WOMEN CHOOSE THE MAN THEY WANT TO BE WITH. Men have little or no say in the matter. WOmen like to chase the man they are really and truly interested in. I have had many women chaseing after me, some for years. They will eventually give up if you don't respond but you have to stop believing the standard hype/BS that has been drilled into your head. What occurs in reality is totally different than what has been taught to men. If women are not chasing you or showing interest in you then you need to change some things about yourself. Link to post Share on other sites
alphamale Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 Originally posted by iceisles That is not my perception at all. I think a lot of women still like to be courted and feel that this is very important part of the early evolution of a relationship. Life is not a romantic comedy. Women do like to be courted, but they like to be courted by the right man. the operative word here is "MAN", as in masculine, assertive, dominant... Link to post Share on other sites
Author iceisles Posted January 6, 2005 Author Share Posted January 6, 2005 Originally posted by alphamale I have had many women chaseing after me, some for years. Were they in police uniforms or carrying pitchforks? J/K. Women, in general, do not chase men. That is reality. Most times, guys have to settle for strong hints and then act on those. Link to post Share on other sites
alphamale Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 Originally posted by iceisles Women, in general, do not chase men. That is reality. Most times, guys have to settle for strong hints and then act on those. Once again you're wrong. Let us see what the women say on this. Link to post Share on other sites
Author iceisles Posted January 6, 2005 Author Share Posted January 6, 2005 Originally posted by alphamale Once again you're wrong. Let us see what the women say on this. Yes, let's. Link to post Share on other sites
alphamale Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 This came up in another topic but I think it warrants its own topic... My philosophy is that women choose the man they want to be with and men have very little say in the matter. Have you every chased a man that you really really liked a lot? What were the circumstances and for how long did you chase him? Did you catch him or not? Link to post Share on other sites
HokeyReligions Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 Nope. Never had to. Link to post Share on other sites
startingover1028 Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 Yes, I've chased. Last time I chased for over 5 years. Finally caught him. Didn't end up working out. Link to post Share on other sites
Barby Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 How would men have "very little say in it"??? My philosophy is that women choose the man they want to be with and men have very little say in the matter. A man CHOOSES who he will be with also, why would he just "give in" and be with someone because they're being "chased" Anyway circumstances have usually been that I'm the one being pursued and yes clearly I've been "caught" but in a couple of cases... 1) I met a guy online (he IMed me first) and I thought he was very attractive so we called, I continued to IM with him, email, and call..till it became apparent our personalities did NOT match well...so no I didn't "catch" that one..didn't want to after a short while and he still calls me... 2) I liked a guy I met here where I live at a friend's house, he didn't speak English and didn't think I spoke spanish...(but I do) so I got up the nerve to call and ask for him...we spoke everynight for a week, (i called, at first he didn't have my phone number I always *67end when I called). Then at the end of the week we went out and started dating, were together 6 months but it ended. So in that case yes I "caught" him but he seemed oh too happy to be "caught":) Link to post Share on other sites
Naive Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 I did not necessarily chased my H/bf but I liked him a lot and he knew it, after some time we lost touch and I called him AGAIN and that's how we got together. Link to post Share on other sites
Mustard Bomb Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 Originally posted by alphamale WOmen like to chase the man they are really and truly interested in. I have had many women chaseing after me, some for years. They will eventually give up if you don't respond but you have to stop believing the standard hype/BS that has been drilled into your head. What occurs in reality is totally different than what has been taught to men. [or women] Actually, we are not in disagreement. But those women are considered by 'player' women as the 'average frustrated chumpettes' who are clueless about the 'real game'. Consider your own example: ostensibly, you have changed yourself into the desired object. Is it then so difficult to believe women also do this often? If anyone does not believe this industry exists, grab a cosmo or any of the hundreds of 'how to land a husband' books that repeatedly suggest not being the first to contact, never making the first move, to wait and be available. Your whole game is mirrored in the woman's market. The message is the same: let them come to you. Manipulate. Sporadically withhold approval and interest until it's bankable, blah blah blah. Any manipulative game-playing philosophy depends, at some core level, the sincerity of the other party. If women do indeed chase you, it's because they are more sincere, straightforward, and honest than you are. They have rejected or never bothered with disingenious sub-standard dating rhetoric. It's refreshing to see a someone so clearly take the role of the courageous, interested, party who is secure enough in his personality and looks to just go after what he wants. Even if he gets rejected - so what? Is that really so scary that he has to reinvent himself to protect himself from it with a cowering bravado? Iceisles strikes me as the type who would be sad, feel it, then go have a sandwhich. I agree the how to pick-up broads stuff is fine for the men who desperately need it. Iceisles does not. Whew! This is going to get moved over to rants! Link to post Share on other sites
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