And this is why I am done with empathy and looking out for others best interest

[Janesays]

I don't know where you live but here it's not taboo at all and nobody bats an eyelash.

 

I myself have dated a black man before and I'm white as snow.

 

In my social circle, there are at least 2 interracial couples. And we're upper middle class professionals. Definitely not 'thug culture.'

[KathyM]

See the only problem is that all the relationship minded men (read: not "nice") on here AND in my personal dealings have gotten shafted for being this way.

 

In my own life, I've always been this way. Many of my male friends sleep around and ask me why I don't. I tell them that there is a woman out there that will appreciate my values and attitudes regarding intimacy someday...and I guess I will continue to cling to that, cause fuvk it right?

Some relationship quality men have had their hearts broken, for sure, or been cheated on, but there are many who are in wonderful, lasting relationships with women who love them, or they've had quality relationships in the past which didn't work out for whatever reason, so they are pursuing their next quality relationship. I'm just saying that you are much more likely to find a woman who treats you well and appreciates you if you are actually looking for a relationship yourself, and not just looking for casual. Most women want a real relationship, not just a casual thing until the next BBD comes along.

 

 

By all means, there will be quality women who appreciate that you are not an a**hole, and that you don't sleep with every skirt that you possibly can. Of course, you have to have a lot of other things going for you also to attract a woman. It's not like all men have to do is be a decent human being, and women will want a relationship with him. But women who are relationship quality (kind/caring/faithful/loving/with good character) do want their counterpart who also has those qualities. I get into this discussion with a few of my clients sometimes. You need to BE the type of man who attracts quality women. If you are just going to be an a**hole, then you will attract women who are either a**holes themselves, or women with low self esteem who allow men to treat them badly, or if you deceive a quality woman into thinking you have the same goals/values as her, and play her, then you can tape a picture of a donkey's behind on your bathroom mirror and get comfortable with that, until word gets around what an a**hole you are, and no decent woman will want you.

[KathyM]

Like I just CAN NOT bring myself to disrespectfully flirt, feign interest and then pull away to create desire in a woman, or pump and dump them. Can't do it.

 

It's sad that those who don't play games are "uninteresting" or "one dimensional and boring"

Playing games is not what makes a man interesting. Having a life, a well rounded life, is what makes a man interesting.

[Keenly]

Playing games is not what makes a man interesting. Having a life, a well rounded life, is what makes a man interesting.

 

Would you care to explain this to every woman in america age 18 to 28?

[Woggle]

Would you care to explain this to every woman in america age 18 to 28?

 

Start dating women in their 30s.

[Keenly]

Start dating women in their 30s.

 

I couldn't see myself with a woman 6+ years older than I am, simply because we are at completely different stages of life.

[Sand Man Dan]

Would you care to explain this to every woman in america age 18 to 28?

 

This is essentially where I'm at.

[KathyM]

Would you care to explain this to every woman in america age 18 to 28?

I do warn women to stay away from men who are a**holes, players, womanizers, cheaters or who only want sex. I warn them both on this board, and IRL.

[CptSaveAho]

so you are essentially going to do now what i have been telling you to do in all of your posts last year....

 

quit being a pussy....

 

problem solved..... girls dont like nice guys, the reak of insecurity and neediness. Girls will get bored and look to chase something new/exciting

[kaylan]

so you are essentially going to do now what i have been telling you to do in all of your posts last year....

 

quit being a pussy....

 

problem solved..... girls dont like nice guys, the reak of insecurity and neediness. Girls will get bored and look to chase something new/exciting

Lol I was never a "nice" guy.

[William]

Our hydra showed up here so there may be a few responses to quotes which go nowhere. My apologies for not catching this head more quickly. The responses which addressed the topic were retained. Please continue!

[Sand Man Dan]

Lol I was never a "nice" guy.

 

That's the thing, many people will try to say that if you're literally just being yourself and are also having terrible luck with attracting emotionally mature women, then you're automatically a "nice guy."

 

There is nobody who is a "nice guy" naturally, organically.

[CptSaveAho]

That's the thing, many people will try to say that if you're literally just being yourself and are also having terrible luck with attracting emotionally mature women, then you're automatically a "nice guy."

 

There is nobody who is a "nice guy" naturally, organically.

 

Another BS rationalization guys on this forum use to protect themselves from looking in the mirror and seeing what they are doing is not working....

 

"Be yourself" - yawn has it worked so far? Nope but theres no need for me to change anything so maybe one day, the disney princess will waive her magical wand and I will get lucky.

 

Personally, I would rather change, figure out that what i have been doing for years is not working and address those issues. But that makes too much sense for people of this forum

[Sand Man Dan]

Another BS rationalization guys on this forum use to protect themselves from looking in the mirror and seeing what they are doing is not working....

 

"Be yourself" - yawn has it worked so far? Nope but theres no need for me to change anything so maybe one day, the disney princess will waive her magical wand and I will get lucky.

 

Personally, I would rather change, figure out that what i have been doing for years is not working and address those issues. But that makes too much sense for people of this forum

 

At what point do your changes become less self improvement and more moral suicide and submission to cynicism?

 

For instance. I was a short skinny kid 2 years ago. Had no confidence or people skills. Got my heart broken but it spurred me to growth. I've since re engineered my body and gained a lot of social experience. Those are meaningful changes right? See how I did that WITHOUT becoming a massive douche?

[ThatMan]

kaylan,

It honestly seems as though you are still grieving. We all need a moment before we're ready to move on. I would be very bummed out to endure the very same mistreatment you've experienced. Sometimes we need the opportunity to let things off our chest, and certain unusual declarations show up, like those discussed here. I just hope you take a moment to do kind things for yourself and unwind.

[CptSaveAho]

At what point do your changes become less self improvement and more moral suicide and submission to cynicism?

 

For instance. I was a short skinny kid 2 years ago. Had no confidence or people skills. Got my heart broken but it spurred me to growth. I've since re engineered my body and gained a lot of social experience. Those are meaningful changes right? See how I did that WITHOUT becoming a massive douche?

 

body and social experience = superficial changes... doesnt fix the "problem"

 

Title of this thread

 

"And this is why I am done with empathy and looking out for others best interest" aka nice guy... women dont want to date nice guys/other women...

 

I told kaylan last november to get some male (alpha) friends, still hasnt listened yet 13 months later posting on loveshack how hes still getting hosed.... maybe hes now getting the hint?

 

learn from his mistakes and posts... contrary to his belief, he is a nice guy his actions and results of his actions are proof of that as our a lot of male posters here on ls

[Mrlonelyone]

At what point do your changes become less self improvement and more moral suicide and submission to cynicism?

 

For instance. I was a short skinny kid 2 years ago. Had no confidence or people skills. Got my heart broken but it spurred me to growth. I've since re engineered my body and gained a lot of social experience. Those are meaningful changes right? See how I did that WITHOUT becoming a massive douche?

 

No one is saying "be a massive douche".

 

The op is just now realizing that the image he's been fed about how women are supposed to be is not how they really are.

 

He's had women say they want to be friends but really want to have a fling with him. He's had women act single and turn out to be married. etc. He's not alone in that experience.

 

I get and understand that 100% of women aren't users and those that are won't be 100% of the time with 100% of men. In reality about 1/4 of women, will be users to 100% of men, 1/4 of the time.*

 

Please tell me how it's bad to recognize reality?

 

 

*Women ovulate for about 1/4 of every month and science has shown when they do they find about 50% of men sexually attractive (cads) and scorn the other 50%. The flip side is the other three weeks they love the dads just not when they are likely to become biological fathers. references provided if asked for.

[xxoo]

What is your goal here? What does it mean to "get yours"?

 

Keep in mind that, every year, millions of women in their 20s enter loving relationships, and even marry. Those women are out there, if a loving relationship is your goal.

[Mrlonelyone]

What is your goal here? What does it mean to "get yours"?

 

Keep in mind that, every year, millions of women in their 20s enter loving relationships, and even marry. Those women are out there, if a loving relationship is your goal.

 

 

The OP and some of us here are simply reacting to the way we have seen women act. Certain men get picked by the very women you mention as being good for sex or a fling...but not a relationship.

 

 

Note the OP mentions in another thread that he's had women start R's with him then turn out to be already married. Women in their 20's I'm sure.

 

 

By the by the average age for marriage for a man is 29. 50% of us get married older than that.

[kaylan]

kaylan,

It honestly seems as though you are still grieving. We all need a moment before we're ready to move on. I would be very bummed out to endure the very same mistreatment you've experienced. Sometimes we need the opportunity to let things off our chest, and certain unusual declarations show up, like those discussed here. I just hope you take a moment to do kind things for yourself and unwind.

Grieving what? I have not been in a relationship in a few years. And I havent really liked a girl in over a year. Im not particularly greiving anything. Im just venting because Ive become fed up by the crap Ive dealt with in my dating life. Im not focused on one particular situation, but the whole bunch.

body and social experience = superficial changes... doesnt fix the "problem"

 

Title of this thread

 

"And this is why I am done with empathy and looking out for others best interest" aka nice guy... women dont want to date nice guys/other women...

 

I told kaylan last november to get some male (alpha) friends, still hasnt listened yet 13 months later posting on loveshack how hes still getting hosed.... maybe hes now getting the hint?

 

learn from his mistakes and posts... contrary to his belief, he is a nice guy his actions and results of his actions are proof of that as our a lot of male posters here on ls

Alphas get hosed too. Ive seen my playboy friends have their share of trouble finding decent women. It happens bro. You have a very small minded view of dating. Im guessing that any guy who ever has dating troubles must be a "nice guy"

[kaylan]

The OP and some of us here are simply reacting to the way we have seen women act. Certain men get picked by the very women you mention as being good for sex or a fling...but not a relationship.

 

 

Note the OP mentions in another thread that he's had women start R's with him then turn out to be already married. Women in their 20's I'm sure.

 

 

By the by the average age for marriage for a man is 29. 50% of us get married older than that.

You definitely have me mixed up with some other poster. I dont ever deal with taken women.

[Lady2163]

There is one future conundrum here.

 

You are obviously looking for a nice girl. You turned down a girl because she had previously hit on you when she was taken.

 

You don't say you're planning to cheat, but you are considering adding lying and using so you can get yours and do unto others before they do unto you.

 

Ten years from now, you meet the love of your life. You feel to be honest with her and have a future with her, you need to tell her about your past. After hearing what a player you've been, she dumps you because you just don't measure up to what she's looking for.

 

Time does heal. When you are 46, the relationships you had in your teens (assuming they weren't abusive) will have definitely shaped you, but they won't still be fresh on your mind. They won't totally define you like they do now.

 

But, to tell the truth, your attitude is why I lie to men.

 

I am loyal. I have cheated in the past...20+ years ago. I am kind, I am generous with my time and financial resources. I don't play any communication games. I show up on time, I do what I say I'm going to do. I don't play head games.

 

BUT...

For the last seven years I have been involved with a long distance FWB. He is married. He is not leaving his wife. I tell the men I date I travel to that area a few times a year for business. Which, I do.

In the last five years I've been to a dozen swingers parties and several 50 Shades of Gray BDSM events. I didn't say I had an orgy or banged all interested parties, more often I hang out with a friend who is the bartender for a couple of hours and then leave.

 

I don't tell either of those details when I date a man. In the last seven years, I've never reached a point of monogamy or commitment from the men I've dated. I don't want to be judged on those actions when 95% of my current life is pretty straight up.

 

I don't discuss previous boyfriends and when I'm asked how my marriage ended, my answer is less than four sentences.

[kaylan]

^A perfect example of why many men get to the point Ive gotten to. When chicks act like lies are no big deal, why should I feel the need to be open and transparent? *shrug*

[Mrlonelyone]

You definitely have me mixed up with some other poster. I dont ever deal with taken women.

 

 

That's part of the problem....it's not that you mess with taken women...taken women mess with you.

 

 

You want a woman who's 100% available for you and can't find it. You wrote of girls, using you for sex, lying about being pregnant, being friends then wanting sex but nothing more, etc.

 

 

I don't have you confused, I'm just looking ahead to one possible future for you. As you age, and those women get married do you think they change their stripes? They won't. That's what some of us older guys are talking about here.

 

 

All you can really do to avoid being used is to guard yourself from these women.

 

 

Example, in November at a meeting a woman approached me and gave me her contact info. We flirted there and online. I only found out she was married because I Googled her. If I was 5-10 years younger she would've had a boyfriend instead of a husband but the mindset and dynamic are the same.

 

 

Some will say that looking into the background of a potential partner is "creepy" but it is one way to avoid being used.

Edited January 2, 2014 by Mrlonelyone

[RedRobin]

Kaylan, has it occurred to you that this would be a perfect opportunity to develop MORE empathy?

 

 

These women you call 'skanks' in another thread... has it occurred to you that they might have been used, abused, and lied to like you are feeling now? That they have given up? That they think that having empty sex is the only way they can get any kind of care and affection in their lives? Just like you are contemplating doing? 'Getting yours'??

 

 

I've been tempted to go that path. You have NO IDEA how lonely it has been for me up here. Especially when so many of my friends around here are happily married.

 

 

... you have NO IDEA how frustrating it is to try and meet men who pose as 'nice guys' but who have been playing the field for years and likely have no intention of being committed to anyone... who want to use me to redeem themselves or to make me like them... just another dating zombie.

 

 

I've wasted a lot of time being angry at these people.

 

 

You don't have to become like that. Use these experiences to develop more empathy... be grateful for the people who can and do care for you. They say that emotional intelligence is based on two things... empathy and ability to delay gratification. I believe that 100%. Even if I'm not there yet... that is my goal.