Effective flirting?

[Garcon1986]

Hi there, I'm writing for help - I'm on online dating websites because I am surrounded by married people at work and people who otherwise are not "in to me that way". I'm running into dead ends all the time, and have only been able to keep an email conversation going for about 1 week after which the girl mysteriously disappeared. My flirting approach generally is: saying something that shows genuine interest in the other person, and ending with an open ended question. I can count about ~5 people who have responded to me through about 1000 emails. What am I doing wrong? Cheers!

 

Here's an example: Hi there and happy pre-new years celebration! I figured you would be the best person to ask, since you are Italian. I've heard a couple of ways you can do a Seven fishes dinner - Do you have a favorite way you do your sette pesci?

[Philosoraptor]

Online you need to close the deal quickly and bring up a date idea earlier rather than waiting a week.

 

You'd be better off finding a new hobby or just go out more places and approaching women there.

[Garcon1986]

I've tried both getting to know the person, and giving dating ideas early - and both haven't got me anything.

[d0nnivain]

OLD is a numbers game. It's not you. I thought your approach was warm, personal & creative. In an ideal world that should work but intelligent, caring & sensitive don't always translate effectively in cyberspace.

 

 

Mix up your approach. Try speed dating. Ask your married co-workers to fix you up. Chat up someone women in the cafeteria at lunch.

[mammasita]

I know its shallow but how do your picture on your OLD profile look? That combined with your message are what its all about.

[Garcon1986]

Talk shallow with me all you want, I'm on here for honest opinions My profile pic is actually my Loveshack photo (but in higher resolution). If I need to get a soccer player haircut (The Harvard), and dress up like in a fashion magazine, let me know. I've got the means to do it.

[Gottabestrong]

I think you look attractive. But your message might be a bit ... too difficult for me? I am not Italian, but even if I were, I don't know if I would know how to do a Seven fishes dinner. Maybe ask a more light-hearted question relating to something in their profile?

[Pretty.in.Pink]

Your picture is fine. You're smiling (i.e. seem warm and approachable) and I immediately learn something about you--you play guitar. All good.

 

Whether someone, who's clicked on your email, responds will depend largely on your photos AND your profile. You seem articulate. I'm guessing your profile is fine, but it never hurts to show it to a few women in your target age range to get their feedback. Sometimes we word things in ways that can be off-putting. Ditto for the rest of your photos.

 

The only purpose your email really serves is to get her intrigued enough to click on your profile. Your profile is what "sells" you. Make sure it provides a clear representation of you and your interests. The other thing your email should do, is give her something to answer should she like what she sees. You did. Your email is perfect IMO.

 

You do have to send out lots of feelers. Some profiles are inactive. If you're on a paid site, some people can't respond because they won't pay. Then, of course, you have no idea who might like you and who wouldn't. You're flying totally blind. In real life, you aren't going to bother approaching the person who looks right through you as if you're invisible. You're more likely to approach someone if she smiles or holds your gaze, because you have some cue that there might be some interest. That's completely lost online (unless she reaches out, which is relatively rare). So just send out messages to everyone and anyone who might be interesting to you. And focus on also meeting women socially in real life--sports league, yoga or dance class, meetups, anything that interests you and also draws at least some women.

[pteromom]

Here's an example: Hi there and happy pre-new years celebration! I figured you would be the best person to ask, since you are Italian. I've heard a couple of ways you can do a Seven fishes dinner - Do you have a favorite way you do your sette pesci?

 

This message is a little too formal. Sounds more like you are writing a letter to a cooking column in the paper than someone you have potential romantic interest in.

 

Instead, find something in her specific profile that you find interesting or that you have in common, and talk about that. Relate it to something about yourself. You want to show interest AND get her interested.

 

Your picture is awesome. You look interesting, warm, and inviting. I'd write you back.

 

Don't worry about numbers. Women are BOMBARDED with messages in OLD. The odds that she doesn't even see yours or checks your message when she gets 25 others is unfortunately high. Keep writing to anyone you find interesting, and don't be afraid to write a woman you have specific interest in a 2nd time a couple weeks after the first message in case she skimmed over the first one.

 

I agree with trying to meet in person early, and I recommend starting with just getting together for afternoon coffee to start with. Make it light and casual and easy.

 

And ask all your married friends at work if they know anyone to set you up with! Most of us have some high quality single friends.

[winny]

I wouldn't reply to that message myself...

 

I mostly never read the messages I get... If they are more than one line

I directly go to the profile... If I like what I read n if I find the pic attractive then I reply...

[Garcon1986]

This message is a little too formal. Sounds more like you are writing a letter to a cooking column in the paper than someone you have potential romantic interest in.

 

Instead, find something in her specific profile that you find interesting or that you have in common, and talk about that. Relate it to something about yourself. You want to show interest AND get her interested.

 

Your picture is awesome. You look interesting, warm, and inviting. I'd write you back.

 

Don't worry about numbers. Women are BOMBARDED with messages in OLD. The odds that she doesn't even see yours or checks your message when she gets 25 others is unfortunately high. Keep writing to anyone you find interesting, and don't be afraid to write a woman you have specific interest in a 2nd time a couple weeks after the first message in case she skimmed over the first one.

 

I agree with trying to meet in person early, and I recommend starting with just getting together for afternoon coffee to start with. Make it light and casual and easy.

 

And ask all your married friends at work if they know anyone to set you up with! Most of us have some high quality single friends.

 

i get the sense that i'm doing something wrong though; i've hit about the 1000 message mark and about five people have replied. i get that the odds are tough for guys, but should it be that bad?

[happywithlife]

If all of your emails are like your example, I can see why you may not be getting a lot of replies. The example you gave is too overbearing. I know of many Italians that have never made the dish you mentioned, let alone have eaten it! I would never presume that someone knows how to cook a dish based on ethnicity!

 

Your best bet is to keep it more simple and upbeat. Definitely mention something from the girls profile. Maybe she mentions she likes to cook - ask her what her favorite dishes are and offer your favorites. Or maybe she likes to spend time outdoors - ask her her favorite hiking trails, local beach, park, etc and let you know where you like to go hiking. Focus on what the girl says in her profile or specifics you can glean from her photos and tell her about yourself.

 

When I was on an OLD site, I would have been apprehensive to reply to your example email because it is too much. I steered clear of people who sent simple one line emails like hey, whats up or from the ones where people sounded like they were full of themselves.

[Garcon1986]

If all of your emails are like your example, I can see why you may not be getting a lot of replies. The example you gave is too overbearing. I know of many Italians that have never made the dish you mentioned, let alone have eaten it! I would never presume that someone knows how to cook a dish based on ethnicity!

 

Your best bet is to keep it more simple and upbeat. Definitely mention something from the girls profile. Maybe she mentions she likes to cook - ask her what her favorite dishes are and offer your favorites. Or maybe she likes to spend time outdoors - ask her her favorite hiking trails, local beach, park, etc and let you know where you like to go hiking. Focus on what the girl says in her profile or specifics you can glean from her photos and tell her about yourself.

 

When I was on an OLD site, I would have been apprehensive to reply to your example email because it is too much. I steered clear of people who sent simple one line emails like hey, whats up or from the ones where people sounded like they were full of themselves.

 

Did that too, something along the lines of "oh thats neat that you went to Madrid, I just got back from vacation there. what did you do there?" Maybe a bit of teasing such as "did you become a real madrid or a barcelona fan" was included too.

 

got nothing to show for it.

[theothersully]

Did that too, something along the lines of "oh thats neat that you went to Madrid, I just got back from vacation there. what did you do there?" Maybe a bit of teasing such as "did you become a real madrid or a barcelona fan" was included too.

 

got nothing to show for it.

 

Just that first quote, without the second is good. Leave it at that.

 

In the first example in the thread and the latter quote in this post, you are assuming the other person shares a knowledge they may not have.

 

In other words, you are alienating the recipient by making them feel stupid.

 

I didn't know the dish in the first one and I have no idea what sport you are talking about in the last quote, despite having spent about a month in Barcelona, San Sebastian and other Basque Country areas.

 

So keep it lighter. I had to learn the same thing when I was a teenager. People do not like overly smart people. They like dumb stuff, then opening up your intelligence later on as you get into dating.

[darkmoon]

I read earlier on Loveshack, get to meet them straightaway, this makes sense to me, I am not looking for a penfriend, emailing is a chore and quite hard to get right, just meet for coffee, see if you click, you look fine

[Pretty.in.Pink]

Depends on who you're trying to attract, I think. Also what site(s) you use.

 

I was looking for someone who was well-educated, well-travelled, intelligent, and witty (among other things) when I did online dating. Guys who displayed that in their profile and in their messages got my attention.

 

A piece of advice I got from a friend early on was to be more, rather than less, specific. The "blander" you are, the less likely you are to turn anyone away, but the less likely it is that anyone will connect to what you say and want to communicate. I had a fantastic online dating experience because of that nugget. Being highly specific attracted guys who were compatible and repelled those who weren't. Pretty much every guy who contacted me fit exactly what I was seeking once I took her advice. Dating became about whether we had chemistry. It was a very efficient approach for me.

 

I have a feeling that your email openings represent typical conversations you might have with a stranger. If the person is going to be intimidated or turned off because you mention soccer, or something else fairly common, then it's going to be a problem whether it happens in your email opener or on a date.

 

From my experience, painting a clear picture of yourself is in your best interest. You want to catch the interest of the pool most likely to be compatible with you from the outset.

 

Just my two cents...

[Garcon1986]

I think I'm also running up against a big roadblock - or what I perceive to be one - I'm on match.com and okcupid.com, and the people that I fancy, list that they only would consider seeing people of the caucasian persuasion. I'm the odd one out that I am Asian but grew up in Western countries, and as a result I now fancy white people instead of my own race. What to do?

[Lady2163]

All right, what sites are people using that the women get bombarded? I know I'm only a 6 or 7, but I have no luck getting answers. I cheated a bit, I did a form email that I personalized for each man and have sent out 400+ messages.

 

That said, what I look for on profiles are things we have in common. If a man devotes his whole profile to his love of mainly manly things such as hunting, fishing, NASCAR, camping, sports fan, season ticket holder, I wonder what we have in common. This isn't to say there aren't women who like those things, just not me.

 

Avoid saying, "my work comes first." "my kids come first" "my kids are my life.". That is something better explained on a first date. When I read that on a profile, I know that I won't ever be a top priority. When I see that I know there is potential for me not to get picked up after a ten hour flight because daughter needed/wanted a pink coat RIGHT NOW.

 

I like to see more than one picture. Do not have the majority of your pictures be with you wearing a hat or obscuring your face. Do NOT post a picture of you with another woman unless it is your child or grandmother. Avoid pics of you with beer in every shot, unless you want a party girl.

 

Good luck.

[Pretty.in.Pink]

Well then, focus on white people who indicate they're open to dating Asians. In addition to your two sites, consider interracial dating sites that specialize in Asian-Caucasian dating. Not sure of their quality, but they certainly exist. Would westernized Asians be an option? Possibly, reconsider and broaden your racial parameters as well if they aren't particularly strong.

 

That being said, we all like what we like. Stay true to what you want. Just understand that restricting your pool in certain ways can impact the length of time and the effort needed to get what you want. Keep sending emails and stay active in various social activities in real life.

[fabulous]

honestly forget about the personable messages. You've figured out for yourself it doesn't work, despite what women will tell you here.

 

OLD is a meat market, pure and simple.

 

Be handsome, tall and rich (and white), if you want a good reply rate.

 

I've set up fake dating profiles before using a believable handsome male and got a very good reply rate from attractive women with opening messages simply consisting of "hi", the profile was very bland too. (20-30% in fact of women replied to my messages). If a woman likes you she doesn't need convincing.

 

OLD is the perfect place to be shallow. In fact the gender ratio in favor of women is such that shallow behavior is expected. Unless you are something special you won't stand out.

 

You sound like the sort of guy who would do much better offline, maybe you don't look good on paper.

[gaius]

I think I'm also running up against a big roadblock - or what I perceive to be one - I'm on match.com and okcupid.com, and the people that I fancy, list that they only would consider seeing people of the caucasian persuasion. I'm the odd one out that I am Asian but grew up in Western countries, and as a result I now fancy white people instead of my own race. What to do?

Message anyway and take a shot, if you want them. You would be surprised how often women say one thing but are pretty open to something completely different.

 

I read your example message in the original post and it had no sense of self whatsoever. It was just a jumbled bunch of responses to what was in her profile. Women don't always want a guy who's just going to talk about her. Try to make it a good mix of acknowledging something she said but also your personality. I would give you an example but I can't share trade secrets.

[Gottabestrong]

I think I'm also running up against a big roadblock - or what I perceive to be one - I'm on match.com and okcupid.com, and the people that I fancy, list that they only would consider seeing people of the caucasian persuasion. I'm the odd one out that I am Asian but grew up in Western countries, and as a result I now fancy white people instead of my own race. What to do?

 

Don't contact women who specifically post that they only want to date Caucasians, but contact those who don't. Many white women might prefer dating white men, but they don't have a strict rule about it, and if they get a nice message from an interesting guy from a different ethnicity they would still be in interested in him (you). Don't let general preferences turn you off.

 

Good luck!

[Garcon1986]

I've also heard this rumor - that women are judging whether or not you are willing to work for the date or future relationship. For example, I know that a certain magazine wrote: "you've got to play hard to get, so you can find out who the most quality partners are, out there". I've got no concept of what that is, because I've never had a significant other my entire life. Can you teach me? And how is this supposed to come across, in an OLD situation? Thanks again.

[StanMusial]

I've also heard this rumor - that women are judging whether or not you are willing to work for the date or future relationship. For example, I know that a certain magazine wrote: "you've got to play hard to get, so you can find out who the most quality partners are, out there". I've got no concept of what that is, because I've never had a significant other my entire life. Can you teach me? And how is this supposed to come across, in an OLD situation? Thanks again.

 

You seem like a well-meaning guy, it is likely OLD is not for you.

[spiderowl]

You have a nice picture and sound a really bright person. You shouldn't have any more difficulty than most guys do online. It is not the best medium for communication. First messages can be a damper on a relationship but so can subsequent ones.

 

Your message sounded friendly but a bit technical. If you are attracted to her, why can't you just say she looks lovely and has similar interests to you and that you'd love to meet her when she's ready?

 

Guys tend to want to meet too soon or actually just want to ramble about their interests and show no interest in the woman's. Another off-putting thing is if they say bizarre things. Although this can be done in humour, sometimes the recipient really can't tell if they are being funny or serious.

 

I'd say keep it simple, friendly and warm. Expect to exchange messages for a week or two before meeting, but express a desire to do that when she would like to. That way you've shown your intentions but are being patient with the messaging so she can get to know you better.