Money threatening our marriage

[tweedledumtweedledee]

Hi

 

New on here!

 

We have been married for 16 years and have held on through lots of stress, a very large family, stressful work situations etc. Still in love, definitely! Because we have a large family, we have been financially stretched especially when my wife took a break from work for a few years to stay at home while the kids were very little.

 

For the past few years however, we have both worked, me full time and my wife 80%. Now when it was just me working, we were skint, especially as we had overextended and borrowed due to difficult circumstances at the time. We agreed a repayment plan to repay our debts over a period of time and have stuck to this although the payments are low and it is taking quite a long time to pay it down.

 

When I add our incomes together and compare it to the picture here in the UK, it puts us in the top 10% by family income. We're both professional people in long term relatively secure jobs in the state sector. However, we're still skint. Every month we run out of money and when we get paid, we have a big spending splurge, mostly on stuff the children 'need'. We put both our salaries into the same bank account and my wife does most of the spending. If I try to talk to her about it, it's an instant argument. We end up using payday lenders or high interest cards at the end of every month as that is all that is available to us. If the car broke down or something, we would be done as we couldn't get to work.

 

We are not secure financially, we need to remortgage as our endowment is gone so debts need to be paid off in a few years when the defaults lift off our file.

 

How do I talk successfully to her about this without being coming across as preachy and starting an argument before the conversation has even started? Basically, I think it comes down to money management although my wife says we just don't earn enough! We are also under other stresses but improving the money situation would make it all so much better (we could get a cleaner for instance as the house is a mess which really upsets and stresses her).

 

I'm worried this will finish us this year, either our relationship or our house will go!

[Philosoraptor]

Google "free credit counseling UK" or something in that regard. She's not going to listen to you so you may want to take advantage of having a mediator help the two of you work through this issue as a couple.

 

There is no way you should be in the top 10% and go into debt. For example my parents had a rather large family and my father worked and made well less than the medium. They managed to pay off their house early, buy a few new cars, and stash a lot of money away. Spending is the issue, not a lack of funds.

[PegNosePete]

Very worrying that she won't talk to you about it. A marriage is supposed to be a partnership after all. Does she give any reason that she won't discuss it calmly and rationally?

 

There is plenty of help and advice out there but none of it will be of much use until you both start acting as one cohesive unit.

[carhill]

Try the CAB and resolve that your children 'need' less this year.

[BlametheIrish]

I agree a credit cpunsler os a great idea. Why do.you need to.hire a cleaner when you have kids to help out?

[Arieswoman]

Hi TWDTWD,

 

When I saw this my heart sank,

 

We end up using payday lenders or high interest cards at the end of every month as that is all that is available to us.

 

That is a recipe for diaster.

 

Basically, I think it comes down to money management although my wife says we just don't earn enough!

 

You are correct, your wife has her head in the clouds.

 

(we could get a cleaner for instance as the house is a mess which really upsets and stresses her).

What are the kids doing to help in this area? Can't they pick up after themselves?

 

I think you need to take the bull by the horns here. Does your wife realise how bad the situation is? Suggest you need to see a debt advisor, together. If she won't go them go on your own and get some info.

 

If she still keeps on spending like a man with no arms, stop putting money into the joint a/c. Open another a/c using your salary and make sure that the essential bills are paid first mortgage/insurances etc. If she wants to treat the kids let her do it out of her salary.

 

How many kids do you have, incidently?

[d0nnivain]

You both need to talk to a credit counselor. You also need to learn the difference between need & want. If your kids have a roof over their heads, food in their bellies & a clothes on their backs, they don't need anything else but they want stuff. That has to stop.

 

 

Start reading the internet blogs about penny pinching & living frugally.

 

Make a budget. For the next month, track your spending. Write down every penny. See where you are spending. Next month, make a budget. If you get takeaway coffee on your way to work, stop. Invest in a coffee pot with an auto timer; set it the night before. Pour your coffee into a travel mug & go. You will save about $5 per day or $100 per month.

 

How often do you eat out? Stop. Home cooked meals are much cheaper. Invest in a crock pot. It's a great way to come home to dinner. Or make a week's worth of meals on the weekends, defrost & eat during the week.

 

Have somebody analyze your insurance, cable, phone etc. to determine if you cut those things out. Shop around for hair cuts. Buy second hand clothes. There is always something you can cut down on once you learn the secrets.

 

 

But those payday loans have got to stop; you will never get out from under.

[tweedledumtweedledee]

Phil, thanks, yes we use a charity/debt counselling organisation for our DMP but the conversations with them only involve one of us (usually me as she won't do it). I too am of a large family (Irish) and my dad raised us all on one salary with no debt and mortgage paid off etc. My wife is from a very different English middle class sort of background and went to a private school (although her parents struggled to keep this going).

 

Peg, yes you're right, the relationship isn't perfect and a lot of stuff gets swept under the carpet because once a major row starts, we end up not talking at all, nothing gets resolved and life is rubbish for everyone, especially the kids. She has been depressed for a while for a variety of reasons and the spending definitely relates to this. We've talked about counselling, but when it comes to it, we can never seem to afford it! I try to tell her that a divorce or break up would cost significantly more and we need to prioritize some money for it.

[tweedledumtweedledee]

thanks everyone for your replies, very helpful

 

Aries, we have 6 (mad I know), aged 5-15 and yes they're lazy around the house (hard working at school, straight As and all that and model kids to everyone outside the house) but at home, messy and lazy when it comes to tidying and cleaning up after themselves. She spends loads on toys that just get chucked and broken every year at Christmas and she knows that's what will happen but still does it!

 

We never eat out, we cook cheap meals and Don, I have squeezed every bill I can but the more we have available to spend, the more she spends and then when we run out, she borrows. The mortgage and bills always get paid at the start of the month but if we continue like this, that might not happen.

 

I have thought about paying my salary into a separate account that she can't get at and make sure we have enough to live on from it.

[Arieswoman]

Hi TWDTWD,

It sounds to me like you are like a hamster on wheel and want to get off but don't know how.

 

The most important issue in all this is your wife's mental health. If your wife is depressed then she needs to have medical help NOW. If she can have medication/counselling then she may be able to address the other problems you have more objectively.

 

Good luck

[PegNosePete]

Peg, yes you're right, the relationship isn't perfect and a lot of stuff gets swept under the carpet because once a major row starts, we end up not talking at all, nothing gets resolved and life is rubbish for everyone, especially the kids.

Well you need to discuss it calmly and rationally without turning into a row. If she raises her voice or gets stressed then don't fight back, just pull back, stop talking and wait for her to calm down. Then re-approach the point from a logical perspective and find out why that particular point upset her so much.

 

Maybe she should give control and planning of the finances to you for a while? It seems she isn't doing a very good job. Don't phrase it like that of course... be tactful!

[tweedledumtweedledee]

Aries,

 

Agree, that's why I have to tread with real care here, I think the spending gives her temporary relief from feeling low but of course over the long term makes things worse. She is undergoing treatment for depression but as that is getting gradually better, the spending stays the same.

[BlametheIrish]

"We have 6 (mad I know), aged 5-15 and yes

they're lazy around the house (hard working at

school, straight As and all that and model kids to

everyone outside the house) but at home, messy

and lazy when it comes to tidying and cleaning up

after themselves."

 

 

Thats really sad that Your kids arent learning more about being responsible. Ni adult eants to.date a slob, if you.dont teach them.now then they'll end up living like pigs as adults. It spunds like your family doesn't have many rules tp.follow.

 

My 3 year old knows how,to.pick up after herself, and put things away exactly where they belong. If she can do it then any able bodied kids have zero.excuse not to.contribute to.the household. Its great tgat their grades are good but thats certainly not the only thing they.need to learn to be a productive member of society. Your wife and kids sound entitled. You need more than credit counseling to get things runnung smoothly, you need to xhange you way of life.

 

Meaning hpuse rules like no play time until chores and homework.are done.

If you want a special toy then do.extra work for an allowance to.pay for it.

 

Not just ypur wife but ypur lids need a nice sit doen to talk about how the You wouldnt want money will be managed. They might hate you for a bit but when theyre successgul adults wjo kniw how yp.manage their own moneu and keep yheir house clean they will thank you. Remember ypu wouldnt want ypur kids coming to.you all stressed onr day complaining of a similar situation to.yours with their SO. So.teach them how to.do.things the correct way right now!

[d0nnivain]

Yikes.

 

 

You have got to get her to see what she's doing. Show her the #s. If she's a professional, facts & figures should speak to her.

 

 

Spending does help with depression & I used to have the bad habit of buying to relieve my own blues. I've learned to rechannel that into bargain hunting but I also have a "release valve" I call my fun-money account. It has a certain amount in it & I know I can spend that money with impunity. DH keeps his hands off & doesn't say a word about what comes out of there. Other purchases are cleared. Having that fun money account made me feel less deprived.

[tweedledumtweedledee]

dOn, some nice ideas thanks both in relation to the the fun money account and bargain shopping,I could bring that in when I talks to her about it all.

 

Peg, good guidance on managing the conversation, it's likely to be tricky so if there's just one person shouting, we might get somewhere.

 

Thanks both

[mrs rubble]

"We have 6 (mad I know), aged 5-15 and yes

they're lazy around the house (hard working at

school, straight As and all that and model kids to

everyone outside the house) but at home, messy

and lazy when it comes to tidying and cleaning up

after themselves."

 

 

Thats really sad that Your kids arent learning more about being responsible. Ni adult eants to.date a slob, if you.dont teach them.now then they'll end up living like pigs as adults. It spunds like your family doesn't have many rules tp.follow.

 

My 3 year old knows how,to.pick up after herself, and put things away exactly where they belong. If she can do it then any able bodied kids have zero.excuse not to.contribute to.the household. Its great tgat their grades are good but thats certainly not the only thing they.need to learn to be a productive member of society. Your wife and kids sound entitled. You need more than credit counseling to get things runnung smoothly, you need to xhange you way of life.

 

Meaning hpuse rules like no play time until chores and homework.are done.

If you want a special toy then do.extra work for an allowance to.pay for it.

 

Not just ypur wife but ypur lids need a nice sit doen to talk about how the You wouldnt want money will be managed. They might hate you for a bit but when theyre successgul adults wjo kniw how yp.manage their own moneu and keep yheir house clean they will thank you. Remember ypu wouldnt want ypur kids coming to.you all stressed onr day complaining of a similar situation to.yours with their SO. So.teach them how to.do.things the correct way right now!

 

 

You cannot compare ONE compliant 3yo to a house full of kids including teenagers!!!!!

 

O/P- I could only get my teenagers to do housework with bribary! Didn't even have to cost me anything more than a lift to a favourite skate park or beach or bush walk.

[tweedledumtweedledee]

Thanks Rubble

 

My thoughts exactly in relation to this ill-considered response. And you are right, you can't compare!

 

She's missing the main point between the emotional well-being and the spending. Even if the kids were tidier, we'd get a cleaner if we could afford it.

 

And yes, bribery works.

[BlametheIrish]

My grandma had 9 kids who.are still neat and tidy. More kids means,more helpers. But if you dont want ti teach them responsibility like that then its your choice. We all make mistakes in life.

[deathandtaxes]

Phil, thanks, yes we use a charity/debt counselling organisation for our DMP but the conversations with them only involve one of us (usually me as she won't do it). I too am of a large family (Irish) and my dad raised us all on one salary with no debt and mortgage paid off etc. My wife is from a very different English middle class sort of background and went to a private school (although her parents struggled to keep this going).

 

Peg, yes you're right, the relationship isn't perfect and a lot of stuff gets swept under the carpet because once a major row starts, we end up not talking at all, nothing gets resolved and life is rubbish for everyone, especially the kids. She has been depressed for a while for a variety of reasons and the spending definitely relates to this. We've talked about counselling, but when it comes to it, we can never seem to afford it! I try to tell her that a divorce or break up would cost significantly more and we need to prioritize some money for it.

 

 

In a relationship, money is oftentimes a proxy for power. She is taking power by doing all the spending regardless of your wishes, and to also satisfy certain other mental issues. I don't know if a budget will solve your problems, but it is a good place to start. But you have to be in agreement over a lot of things. You can't have a disharmonious household (and the children not helping in anything is a big symptom of this!) and expect the budget to be some magical thing that solves all your ills.

[sunshinegirl]

I've learned a lot from the site Mr. Money Mustache (google it). If you post your story in the forum section you can get lots of good ideas from that community about how to talk with your wife and how to dial down your expenses.

[Tiberius]

The problem with your wife is rather psychological than rational. You would need expert advice on figuring out why she is blocking and going over your head. Without knowing her I would say she resents having to contribute her part financially and feels that your money is our money and her money is her money and going on a spending spree is her way to get that message across.

[tweedledumtweedledee]

Tiberius,

 

Yes, that's very interesting. When the children ask her for something we can't pay for, she usually says 'no I can't afford it' even though we both earn the money (and me slightly more).

[Lauriebell82]

You need to come up with a budget. I bet that you guys don't "need" half the amount of stuff that you spend money on. When I quit my job to be a SAHM my husband and I lost my income ($1200 after daycare) and had to significantly cut down on our spending. We thought that we had already been budgeting but nooooooooooooo way. We were overspending so much!!!!

 

 

What I did was calculated out all of the bills that we can't do anything about. Then I subtracted my husband's income from the bill amount and the remainder of the money left was divided into categories and put a dollar limit on (ie: $150 per month on gas) I use an excel spreadsheet to calculate what's been spent in each category and then keep a running total of the remaining amount of "budgeted money" we have left for the money. It works really well because we can make better spending choices. If it's not something we immediately need and we are running short on money for the month then we put off spending it until the next monthly cycle.

 

 

I quit my job 3 months ago and we have broken even every single month (we have significant savings from when I worked). Our goal is to not lose any money and we haven't. I was a SAHM for a year before going back to work and we used to spend $1,000 OVER what my husband brought home every month. So basically by budgeting we saved $1,000 per month.

[fujidabruin]

Google "free credit counseling UK" or something in that regard. She's not going to listen to you so you may want to take advantage of having a mediator help the two of you work through this issue as a couple.

 

There is no way you should be in the top 10% and go into debt. For example my parents had a rather large family and my father worked and made well less than the medium. They managed to pay off their house early, buy a few new cars, and stash a lot of money away. Spending is the issue, not a lack of funds.

 

I found out this ^^^ the hard way.

 

8 years ago, before I met the ex-wife, I was living frugally on a $65K salary/ $110K mortgage/ owned 2 high-mileage vehicles outright/ managed to invest about $8K annually and always had three months living expense funds available.

 

She came along and managed to open both our purse strings. She made about $110K salary/ rented a suite/ owed $15K on a vehicle and $30K line of credit/ visa and MC maxed out.... yet she had worked full-time for 4 years longer than me.

 

We could not agree on budgeting and financial priorities. 4 years later we were split and divided things 50/50. Now I have $190K mortgage/ 3 yrs payment on 36K vehicle/ put nothing into investment as I live paycheque to paycheque

 

Now I owe $125K more and have a net worth of $12K less than when I was on my own.... hard lesson learned.... NOT WHAT YOU EARN.... IT IS WHAT YOU SPEND!!!

[BehindTheseHazelEyes]

I know how about this:

 

 

You put your salary in your account and she gets her account with her salary. Split all the bills and what is left over. We are only getting one side of the story here.