Question - Involving children in D Day

[MissBee]

I get this.

 

As I said, do the crime, do the time.

 

Own your stuff.

 

But I still stand by everything else I have said.

 

That children should be treated tactfully and appropriately. And whatever the situation, they need both parents.

 

And a marriage is between two people. It is their business.

 

I wouldn't drag my children into a confrontation with the OW and their father; however, it's not really true that a marriage is between two people, when that marriage produces a family. The family dynamics are directly related to the state of the marriage and does affect the children. Married people with no children are one thing, but no marriage with children is a bubble where things affecting the marriage can exist in a vacuum that doesn't affect the family.

 

Yes there are some things that are only between the spouses, but I see the parents as the king and queen and the family their empire and when stuff is awry with them it trickles down....I lived that experience and many other people who were children in homes where infidelity occurred or abuse between spouses have lived that reality where it's not some bubble where the spouses can do whatever and it's just between them with no effect on the children. In fact...half the time the whole story of why MP say they can't leave their M is because of their family and children...they don't look at it as them leaving "the marriage" but "the family", because clearly when you are married with kids it's no longer just this romantic relationship between a couple but a lot of other things rest on the union.

[WakingUp]

There are much worse things than infidelity.

 

I am not saying it is OK, but much worse things happen.

[waterwoman]

No, it isn't ok. I was desperate for our children not to know. It was all so distressing and sordid, why would I want my beautiful kids to be involved.

 

Thing is though that as the time went on and I came out of my state of emotional freeze I began to get angry and to sob and to yell at my h. They must have known something was up but to this day I don't know what they know or have guessed. I am not sure we handled it the right way but there is no manual.....

 

Three times though? Wow! I guess I might have been crazy and desperate too...

 

Friends of ours had a d-day recently. Their boys were there. No-one brought them in but they heard their mum yelling and sobbing (not normal fir here at all) and they came rushing into the room. Both were horrified to see their mother in that state. They clearly heard what she was saying and the youngest confronted his dad, there was an argument and he hit his dad. Not deliberately engineered but a mess none the less.

[MissBee]

There are much worse things than infidelity.

 

I am not saying it is OK, but much worse things happen.

 

I don't think anyone was arguing that there is nothing worse than infidelity.

 

There will always be something worse than something else...it doesn't negate the effects of that other bad thing just because there exists things that are worse than it.

 

That is all subjective anyway and for some people that may be the worse thing they've experienced and if so, that will definitely affect them and the knowledge that other people experience worse doesn't somehow alleviate the effects.

[WakingUp]

Its late here... well 9.30 and I am an early riser.

 

Thank you for your input, all of you. I am actually empowered and thinking more clearly now.

 

Best wishes for 2014 xxx

[Nothisgirl]

I couldn't agree with this more. If I found out that there had been infidelity in my parents' marriage, I would have wanted to know so I could say SEE YA! and don't let the door hit you on the way out. I love both my parents, but one parent cheating on the other would have been a betrayal of me and our family as well. I would not want the betrayed parent pretending or lying to me for my own sake. I am perfectly capable of making my own decisions.

 

I respectfully disagree...my father cheated on my mother and they divorced when I was a pre teen. He is now married to his OW (for over 20 years) and I love her to pieces. I know what they did was wrong but I don't want any details. The break down of my parents marriage was between my parents. Would I have liked to grow up with my parents in the same home? Of course!! But not if it meant watching either of them be miserable and/or disconnected from our family. (Which is how I think many mm/MW in affairs behave--my mm included)

 

For the record neither my mom or my dad has ever confirmed his affair however we all know...and interestingly enough my mom, to this day, will say she is happy for them and that they are way more compatible than her and my dad ever were

[whatatangledweb]

No, I don't think they should be involved. My kids are adults and they do not know about his affair. I did it to protect them not him. They love and respect him and this would have hurt them to know he wasn't the man they thought he was , at that time. The affair had nothing to do with them. Now if we had divorced I would have told them why. I am not going to lie to them since they are adults. I did not tell them why their father and I divorced as they were very small.

 

That being said , my situation isn't the same as yours. I had one dday. Your last dday he told his wife he was going to continue the affair. How did she get the kids to be there when he confessed? I could see if she was confronting him how she could get them ahead of time. Did he confess to end the affair or the marriage? I would say after three ddays she snapped. Is it right? no , but many of us do things on dday that we never thought we would do and regret later.

[cocorico]

I am just looking for some feedback on this.

 

Another D Day... (I am OW) and once again BS got her young adult children involved in the confrontation with their father. On purpose.

 

They are early 20s. Naturally they were furious, on behalf of their mother. Pretty ugly and traumatic situation for all involved.

 

What are your thoughts on this? Should the marriage situation be kept between the WS and BS to be resolved, or do you think its fair to call the children into battle? Of course I will never comment on this to my MM or his BW (if she decides to phone and attack me again).

 

I divorced (no infidelity) when my children were only little, so I have no experience with this. But now they are grown, I keep the details of my private life to myself. (Well, obviously). I always spoke of my children's father respectfully and encouraged them to form a strong bond with him, despite my own feelings about my exH.

 

But that's me.

 

Just want some opinions on this. Do you think its OK to involve the kids, or not? Input from both sides of the fence are welcome. But no personal attacks please!

 

My H did not "involve" his kids in a DDay, but he did speak to them during the A and inform them that he loved another (me) and that he was wanting to leave the BW, and asked them for their input. They were older teens at the time. This was before he told the BW he would be leaving her.

 

Their feedback since then has been consistent. They were grateful that he consulted them, pleased that they felt they had some say, and information, about their future, and felt affirmed that he treated them as people rather than pets.

 

However, she was livid when she tried to spin them a story and discovered that they knew the real facts - she wanted to control what they were told so that she could control her portrayal in the situation, and I think that is the real issue here. Whoever does the telling gets to decide what the authoritative version should contain, and how each participant should be represented. The other participants resent having themselves re/presented by others without their say so, and resent having their agency usurped. It is seldom that the person being told about is happy with the telling.

[lilmisscantbewrong]

I was dragged into my parents dysfunctional marriage in my late teens and twenties - first by dad and it colored my view of my mom and then by my mom later. They should have divorced 10 years prior to when my dad finally decided he had had enough - he stayed "for the children". All of us siblings said he should have gotten out sooner. Both my parents were wrong - they should never have used their children as sounding boards - it was immature and selfish on their part.

 

My dad is remarried and has been for about 15 years now to a very nice woman. My mom still won't speak to him or to her - she leaves whenever they walk in the room - it sucks. I can only count on one hand the number of times she has tolerated being in the same room - wedding, couple of baptisms and a birthday. She has hurt my children so much by choosing not to show up to many special events because of her own selfishness.

 

And yes there was infidelity - hers was first.

 

For my own situation, on my dday I could hardly get my youngest out of the house before my husband told her and by the time I got back he had woken our middle daughter and told her "your mom has cheated on me". The biggest problem is that none of my kids were equipped to be his friend or his counselor. He had no close friends he felt he could go to I guess (of his own doing) and then he confided in the 28 year old asshat pastor and our names were eventually read before the church.

 

My husband Was hurt for sure and I get that but he acted like a little boy during that time and also kept talking about doing himself in which scared my kids as well. Finally the counselor told him enough and he listened.

 

When he had his affair, I did the opposite - I kept it quiet / I was not going to do what he did to me. Eventually our daughters asked him because I would not tell and he eventually confessed to them. My son still doesn't know and it's pride that keeps him from telling. I am an advocate of him knowing now, just because the girls know and I am afraid of him finding out years later and this all coming to a head again - being fresh for him - but I won't tell him.

 

Children should never be involved no matter what.

 

Of course affairs by their general nature are selfish and messy. Most people don't read a handbook ahead of time in order to react "properly".

Edited January 4, 2014 by lilmisscantbewrong

[ComingInHot]

Maybe look at it like this; for every action there is a REaction and His Wife was REACTING to Her H's And you actions. ..

I can see how this would upset you. Kind of puts a damper on any "healthy" relationship between the kids and you as well as if/when mm makes a decision about the A.

Sorry you're hurting*

[WakingUp]

I have to admit that it was with some trepidation that I woke up and looked at this thread this morning.

 

But I just want to say thanks to everyone who weighed in.

 

I started this thread because I was concerned that I was obsessing over the fact that the kids were involved in the crossfire. And I needed to let that go, which I have now. I understand how it happened, I don't think its OK but I get it.

 

What (if anything) happens now is anyone's guess. Out of my hands totally.

 

I can only hope that they will all be OK. I feel guilty, and sorry, but at least it is over now.

 

Let the healing begin!

[Journee]

I haven't read all of the responses but I am an adult child that was called into the battle at one point.

 

A little background.

 

My mother was my father's OW for a short time. He had been married three times before my mother and has never been faithful to anyone. He is an alcoholic (now going on seven years sober) and was patching himself up with affairs and staying constantly wasted. He still went to work a good job everyday. He attended every function I have ever had. Chaperoned every school trip he even began coaching the athletic team I was on. He still coaches that team to this day. My father was fun and loving to me. He was supportive and was ALWAYS there for me. I was adopted by them and am my father's only child.

 

I wasn't aware of my father's serial cheating and all the years my mother had to put up with this deceit. Looking back and now knowing the truth I can see the times when things were actually strained between my mother and myself. One of my father's affairs was with my best friend's mother. I didn't know. My mother had suspicions but she was gaslighted to death. Deep down she felt so alone. Here I was going to my girlfriend's house to stay with a woman she didn't trust and she every right not to. What was she going to do though? Tell me I can't see my friend because of something they were dealing with? No she sucked it up even after DDay after DDay with woman after woman. I don't know how she did it all alone.

 

Anyway, when I was 21 (I am 28 now) she called me in the middle of the night crying. My mother never cries. The last time I heard/saw her cry was at my oldest sister's funeral. I imagine she did a lot of crying by herself throughout the years. She told me she woke up and my father was gone and she knew where he likely was. With a female family friend. My mind was blown. I called her immediately and asked for my father (my dad wasn't answering my calls that night, he never ignored my calls) she appologized to me immediately. I threatened her. I am not proud of this. I was young and terrified that my family was falling apart. I didn't know what to do because I loved my father so much and my mother too. I felt an animal like urge to protect my mommy. The only woman to ever love me like a mother. I was abandoned by my biological mother and my adoptive mother was all I had. She still is.

 

I finally got a hold of my father and he did not like that I knew. He was embarrassed and he was several shades of ashamed. Longest story ever short.... he checked into rehab, went back to church. Gave himself over to GOD and back to his family and has not looked back since. He is now preaching and never shy's away from his past. From the things he has done. He reminds people that he is a man that could have been cast away for so many reasons but was not.

 

I have never seen my parent's more happy. My father and I made up very soon after that initial phone call. The three of us are closer than ever. We were all the other had for a long time. I don't know if my very difficult and long adoption has anything to do with the fever in which they love me but I know that we are all very close.

 

My mother was very lonely and isolated at the time she called me. She was afraid and alone. After years of the bull my father's cheating piled on her she didn't feel she had anywhere to turn. I am her family. I am her friend. She needed me and the absolute least I could do at that time was listen. After all the love and care they have given this little mixed race black girl that no one wanted all those years ago...my family needed me more than I had needed them as a young child. I was there for my father every step of the way through his detox and recovery. I attended open AA meetings with him and Alanon on my own. My mother still bakes cookies for every meeting my father attends.

 

They will celebrate 29 years of marriage in just two weeks.

 

My knowing of my father's cheating didn't ruin my image of him. I was able to see him as a human, a man. I man that overcame a lot of pain from his childhood, when he could had continued to drink it away. He is Superman to me. Always will be. I am very proud of him and the life he has chosen and worked hard for himself and my mother.

 

In my case it only made us all stronger and closer. We circled the wagons and were there for one another.

[Journee]

I have to admit that it was with some trepidation that I woke up and looked at this thread this morning.

 

But I just want to say thanks to everyone who weighed in.

 

I started this thread because I was concerned that I was obsessing over the fact that the kids were involved in the crossfire. And I needed to let that go, which I have now. I understand how it happened, I don't think its OK but I get it.

 

What (if anything) happens now is anyone's guess. Out of my hands totally.

 

I can only hope that they will all be OK. I feel guilty, and sorry, but at least it is over now.

 

Let the healing begin!

 

Sorry OP, I guess I should had read to the end before posting my novel lol

 

Good luck

[goodyblue]

A marriage is a relationship that is part of the family unit, but is also a relationship in itself. Would you pull your adult children aside and explain to them that mommy won't have sex with daddy and that makes daddy incredibly unhappy so they are leaving the marriage? I mean, if we are going to share every little detail of our intimate marriage, let's do it up right.

 

Most likely, if there wasn't infidelity, it would simply be "mommy and daddy are unhappy and are separating".

 

My point is, the marriage has facets that are private, and should stay that way. If you tell your children about their father having an affair, fine. He had the affair, but YOU caused the hurt to your children that could have been avoided.

[underwater2010]

A marriage is a relationship that is part of the family unit, but is also a relationship in itself. Would you pull your adult children aside and explain to them that mommy won't have sex with daddy and that makes daddy incredibly unhappy so they are leaving the marriage? I mean, if we are going to share every little detail of our intimate marriage, let's do it up right.

 

Most likely, if there wasn't infidelity, it would simply be "mommy and daddy are unhappy and are separating".

 

My point is, the marriage has facets that are private, and should stay that way. If you tell your children about their father having an affair, fine. He had the affair, but YOU caused the hurt to your children that could have been avoided.

Another nice try to blame an affair and the destruction that comes along with it on the BS.

 

 

And no....not every private part of a marriage should be exposed. And the WS has every right prior to the affair to divorce and let the kids know it was because they were unhappy.

 

 

And in this case, if it was non-infidelity....I am sure the wife would have aired it all out anyways.

 

 

Some people are like that and some are not. But either way...we know that none of this would have happened if both parties had not been caught/confessed to cheating on more than one occasion.

[rumbleseat]

A marriage is a relationship that is part of the family unit, but is also a relationship in itself. Would you pull your adult children aside and explain to them that mommy won't have sex with daddy and that makes daddy incredibly unhappy so they are leaving the marriage? I mean, if we are going to share every little detail of our intimate marriage, let's do it up right.

 

Most likely, if there wasn't infidelity, it would simply be "mommy and daddy are unhappy and are separating".

 

My point is, the marriage has facets that are private, and should stay that way. If you tell your children about their father having an affair, fine. He had the affair, but YOU caused the hurt to your children that could have been avoided.

 

Uh huh, right, sure. Some will always be more than ready to blame the bs for everything.

 

The OP was about adult children who seem to have been present when the ws confessed , for a third time, to having an affair. Why he couldn't wait until they were not around isn't said.

 

The damage from an affair is caused by the affair. It isn't rocket science to figure that one out. When a ws has an affair, they not only betray their spouse, but they are the ones who put the whole family unit at risk. They are the ones who risk the well being of their children, and if their son or daughter sees them in as being dishonest because they cheated, then maybe they are actually seeing things with great clarity.

 

It's like someone throwing a bomb into a room full of people. Even though their target may have only been one specific individual, all of the occupants run a very high risk of being hurt.who is the one responsible for their pain? The person who threw the bomb or the intended target?

[goodyblue]

Okay. Be prepared for there to be no privacy at all. I think that if you are going to tell the kids about the affair, you should also tell them every other facet of the marriage, because clearly it also has it's effect on them. I wasn't blaming the BS for the affair. I'm talking about the fact that some things should be handled within the marriage. I guess you think it's okay for your kids to know all of your failings, from your WS's mouth.

[Quiet Storm]

ok then, i say yes. when a family is facing a dilemma(a tragedy, death of a loved one, a drastic change in family dynamics) isn't it prudent for all to be included? what you fail to realize is that this(infidelity) is a family issue..... hence, it involves the whole family. people who cheat not only cheat on their spouse, but their WHOLE family. some of these BS's are looking for some support. why shouldn't age appropriate children be involved in a D-day..... sort of like an intervention?

 

the issue of whether or not the children should be involved stems from the fact that a cheater can't accept the fact that their childrens' perception of them will be blown to smithereens. they want to project a wholesome façade..... they don't want to be labeled as a no-good, lying, cheater by their own children. i mean seriously, who wants their children to be ashamed of them. probably one of the worst feelings imaginable.

 

I agree, it is the same as an intervention. Its justified because an affair affects the family in the same way as an addiction does.

[goodyblue]

Uh huh, right, sure. Some will always be more than ready to blame the bs for everything.

 

The OP was about adult children who seem to have been present when the ws confessed , for a third time, to having an affair. Why he couldn't wait until they were not around isn't said.

 

The damage from an affair is caused by the affair. It isn't rocket science to figure that one out. When a ws has an affair, they not only betray their spouse, but they are the ones who put the whole family unit at risk. They are the ones who risk the well being of their children, and if their son or daughter sees them in as being dishonest because they cheated, then maybe they are actually seeing things with great clarity.

 

It's like someone throwing a bomb into a room full of people. Even though their target may have only been one specific individual, all of the occupants run a very high risk of being hurt.who is the one responsible for their pain? The person who threw the bomb or the intended target?

 

Uh huh, right, I didn't blame the BS for anything. I take responsibility for my part in my guy having been involved in an affair.

 

I'm simply saying that some things should be kept within the marriage. It is clear that the BS, who is hurting, wants to make everyone else know why. Fine. Then the WS should say why HE FEELS he felt the need to step outside the marriage.

 

And yes, it is like throwing a bomb into a room full of people... except that instead of them being touched by the fallout, the BS is going over to each child and handing them the full bomb.

 

And the kids weren't there, as you state. OP said that the BS pulled the children into the fray, which is abusive.

[TwoTowns]

 

What are your thoughts on this? Should the marriage situation be kept between the WS and BS to be resolved, or do you think its fair to call the children into battle?

 

My (then) 19-year-old daughter discovered my affair when she found the phone I used for communicating with my AP. My relationship with her has become irreparably harmed. My personal belief is that our children - no matter what their ages - should be insulated from marital difficulties as much as possible. While battling parents can find temporary relief from venting about their spouses' misdeeds and shortcomings to their kids - in my view all that does is hurt the kids. There are so many things I could have told my daughter about my troubled past with her dad in an attempt to defend myself for a choice that I am solely to blame for. All that would accomplish would be to further harm her and alienate her from BOTH parents.

 

Her knowledge of my affair has changed my daughter forever, and it's nothing I can ever fix. Furthermore, she bases my worth as a parent/wife/human being on the one facet of my 21-year marriage that she has knowledge of. To my child I am absolutely worthless - despite her knowledge of my prior two decades of steadfast loyalty to my husband and kids.

Edited January 4, 2014 by TwoTowns
wrong word

[goodyblue]

I agree, it is the same as an intervention. Its justified because an affair affects the family in the same way as an addiction does.

 

Well, if this is the case, perhaps instead of having an affair, the WS should have gathered the children in a room and said "I"m unhappy because your mom won't have sex with me. We need to address this as a family. Suggestions anyone?"

[eleanorrigby]

Well, if this is the case, perhaps instead of having an affair, the WS should have gathered the children in a room and said "I"m unhappy because your mom won't have sex with me. We need to address this as a family. Suggestions anyone?"

 

I'd rather this any day of the week over an affair.

[goodyblue]

I'd rather this any day of the week over an affair.

 

Good to know, would you also be okay if your kids surrounded your husband and refused to ever have a relationship with you again because you caused the divorce since you wouldn't have sex with your husband? The unfixable decline of your relationship with your children because by not having sex with their father, you also betrayed them and that's it. You've ruined the marriage.

[eleanorrigby]

Good to know, would you also be okay if your kids surrounded your husband and refused to ever have a relationship with you again because you caused the divorce since you wouldn't have sex with your husband? The unfixable decline of your relationship with your children because by not having sex with their father, you also betrayed them and that's it. You've ruined the marriage.

 

If I decided that no matter what will I ever have sex with this person again, no matter how much it hurts his feelings, no matter how much he wants it.

 

Then yes, I think I would have to be "OK" with my children being angry with me being so selfish.

 

ETA:and if he dealt with my refusal to have sex by having an affair, my children would have the same right to be angry with him for that.

Edited January 4, 2014 by eleanorrigby

[goodyblue]

That's good. I'll tell my guy to let his kids know that is why he left.