How do physically flawed people go about dating?

[kolleamm]

Ok, read this entire blog.

 

Roly's Mission: Why Online Dating SUCKS - for guys

 

After reading this blog you will give up on online dating just like I have and never turn back.

 

Bottom line is you are practically selling yourself short online compared to the type of women you could be getting in real life.

[Kid_Charlemange]

With all the competition, it seems like the average male shouldn't be able to get any dates. How do average guys have any kind of success with online dating?

 

I'm considerably below average in the looks department. So that means my profile isn't even going to get viewed by a lot of women. For instance, on OKCupid, people can filter out anyone who is below a certain attractiveness level; they use a five-star rating system and I am a 1.6. This means if I send a message to some women, they'll never even see it.

 

But that still leaves thousands of women who will see the profile, and some of them will actually read it or the messages. I've been on OKC and Match since January, and had about a dozen dates. Realizing that I'm already starting with two strikes, I worked pretty hard on my profile, going for a combination of funny and confident, without being arrogant (there's a fine line). My photos generally show me with a smile, and I have a mix: One in a suit and tie at a wedding, another in shorts and tee-shirt, another in a golf shirt. No ID card shots, and no big group shots. No shots of me with other women (even if they're your sister, I'm told it's a turn off).

 

I just had a third date with a woman that I rather like. We've hit it off pretty well, and she's the first one who's even close to being as attractive as my ex. All I can say is, confidence is huge. I can kind of understand how women can pick up on a lack of self-confidence in person, but they way they smell it out online is spooky...

 

I think a lot of the success rate has to do with age bands and geography. I live just outside a pretty big city, that has a huge white collar employment base, meaning lots of women who put their careers first. Or, since I'm dating in the 45-55 range, I'm meeting empty nesters as well. I can't speak for other demographics and locations.

[Kid_Charlemange]

Women have it a lot tougher on these sites. They get an avalanche of responses and it can take years before they reply to you.

This kind of cracks me up... the guy is saying he can't get dates, and you're saying it's tougher for women because they get too much attention? I think this a problem the OP would love to have!

 

The rest of the advice seems really spot-on, however.

[Kid_Charlemange]

Find a 'good looking male' headshot that doesn't look like a stock photo. Perhaps from another city/country on pof.com or whatever site. Upload it to your profile.

 

Now try and "get a date". Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying misrepresent yourself, I'm just saying that you should TRY. I bet you will fail.

 

Right, the photo will get you in the door, but from there other skills kick in. I did something similar to what you suggest, as an experiment, a few months ago on OKC. Documented it here on another thread (and got called a lot of names as a result). Basically had a profile that was "me" and a nearly identical profile that was "Joe" message the same 20 women. "Joe's" profile is pretty boring, has a lot of spelling and grammatical errors, overuses LOL, that sort of thing. So did his vacuous messages. But "Joe's" photos were of a great-looking friend of mine, who let me use them with his permission.

 

I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I think Joe got 16 responses to his initial messages, while I got three. From the same 20 women.

 

From there, your point absolutely stands. Since "Joe" never took those conversations anywhere beyond the initial reach out, "he" almost certainly would have failed during the back-and-forth if he had no communications skills. But "his" pool of possibilities was considerably larger than mine.

 

Bottom line is something we all know: Looks count. A lot. They don't count for everything, but they are a huge factor. Meaning, an average-looking guy (like the OP) or a downright ugly guy (like me) has to work a bit harder, make sure the photos are as flattering as possible, keep the profile tight, witty, clever and confident without being arrogant, etc.

[Gaeta]

This kind of cracks me up... the guy is saying he can't get dates, and you're saying it's tougher for women because they get too much attention? I think this a problem the OP would love to have!

 

The rest of the advice seems really spot-on, however.

 

I am a 48 year old female and I do online dating. I have been actively looking for a couple of years and have been on 100s of coffee-dates, I am still single. It's painful for us women as much as it is for you guys but in a different way.

 

Each day I get tons of messages from men wanting to hook up, married men looking for a mistress, couples looking for an extra, the average age of men messaging me is between 33 and 38, how is that good to me? I also get the occasional 18 year old messaging me. Men my age don't message me because ....I have no freakin clue!! If I am good enough for a 33 years old then why am I not interesting to a 48 yo. It's f.vcked up.

 

Then I finally get an interesting prospect, we exchange a few messages, I think I got myself some serious guy there when suddenly he starts making dirty comments about my physical assets.

 

Back to the drawing board for the 101 times.

[Kid_Charlemange]

It's painful for us women as much as it is for you guys but in a different way.

 

OK, I'll go along with that. Are 100 bad dates worse than none? They can be. At least the OP isn't having his time wasted.

 

Then again... 100 dates (I realize you are probably using hyperbole here) and no connection is unusual, I'd think.

 

The weird messages, yeah, I hear that from a lot of women. Creepy guys, married guys, 70+ guys, etc. And the cougar thing is rampant! I see it on a lot of women's profiles; "Don't message me if you could be my son." A number of women I've talked to have said they get bombarded with guys half their age. Maybe they're scams, like the Eastern European mail order brides who sometimes message me? Dunno. Or maybe it's a new trend; my ex (and this is why she's my ex) had a hookup with a guy literally half her age... good-looking fellow, too (so good looking, that part of me didn't really blame her... but that's another story). I think back to when I was 25, and the thought of having sex with a 50-year-old -- even a remarkably attractive 50-year-old like my ex -- would have been as likely as flying to the Moon. I remember the director of HR at my company being a remarkably fit 40, and thinking, "Yeah, if I were drunk enough..."

 

I'm not sure what's changed. Sure, people know a lot more about fitness and health now than they did 25 years ago, so there are probably a lot more "fit" 45+ women now than before, but even so. "American Pie" gave us the word "MILF" and now here we are. I don't think I was alone 25 years ago, either, I don't know of any of my buds who would have taken that route back then.

[ThaWholigan]

Good photos and ability to hold a varied conversation with girls. I eventually got laid via OLD and have had a few dates off it. Not great odds but I got something!

[Kid_Charlemange]

Ok, read this entire blog.

 

Roly's Mission: Why Online Dating SUCKS - for guys

 

After reading this blog you will give up on online dating just like I have and never turn back.

 

I read it. I think this guy is mentally ill, and that's why women won't date him. He sounds like a complete ass.

 

He's right about some of the stuff. Yes, there are more women than men. Yes, the attractive ones get hundreds if not thousands of message. And yes, men that would never approach this women IRL will "give it a shot" online. And yes, there are lot overweight women OL. Some have kids. All very true.

 

What he leaves out is that if he approaches a woman in a bar, all he knows is that she's attractive -- that's it. He whines about "wasting time" getting to know someone, only to find out she's a flake (or, more likely, they eventually figure out he's a psycho), but what about he wasted time (and money) at the bar? Say you get a cute one to talk to you. You spend some time. Buy some drinks. Maybe dance. Then at some point you find out the deal killer: She has kids at home. She's an idiot. She's a felon. She thinks the world is 7,000 years old. She's a racist. She's a psycho. She's married. She's still in love with her ex. Put your own deal-killer here: _______.

 

With OLD, you can screen out a lot of stuff. No, there's no bra size option (nor should there be). Since that's what seems to matter the most to this guy, OLD is not for him. I accept that. It's not the most important factor for me. In fact, it's not in the top 100.

 

As for attractiveness, I call BS. Some people don't photograph that well. Some people don't use good photos. I am 100% certain if he saw photos of those "more attractive" women in bars, he'd say the same thing.

 

Does OLD make people too picky? Absolutely. When you can sort on a thousand variables, it's harder to get past a few sticking points, and sooo easy to just click "next." I think both sexes are looking for perfection (or their version of it) in a lot of cases. Let's do the math: Say there are 20 "sortable" options (height, body type, offspring, smoker, etc). Some only have two options, others have 10. Let's compromise at 10. So, how many possible combinations are there?

 

Most people would say 20^5, or 3.2 million. That's a lot of possibilities. Problem is, it's wrong. The actual formula would be 5^20, or about 95 trillion. Perfection? Good luck. And hell, you can take it further. Consider OKC, where there are up to 1,000 questions, any of which can be used to sort out an unfit match. 5^1000 is a number bigger than my computer can handle.

 

Extreme examples? Sure. But the point stands: When it's effortless to create the exact pattern that you're looking for, it weeds out a tremendous number of potential mates that you might click with. Hell, my ex was, I thought, perfect for me. But she was a pack-a-day smoker, so I'd never even see her profile today. I didn't meet her online, I met her through mutual friends.

 

(She also turned out to be a liar, a cheat, and a cougar)

 

My point is, OLD isn't perfect, and it's created a subset of candidates who are using it to be way too picky, and at the same time, there are too many candidates. It's a sensory overload. But it can work. I met a wife on eHarmony a decade ago. I've dated about a dozen women this year from OLD. All were very nice. Some were probably "fatties" according to the clown in the blog. Maybe my standards are lower, but I'm pretty happy with the results so far.

 

In comparison, the number of women I've dated NOT from OLD this year?

 

One -- and she was an old girlfriend from over a decade ago who basically gave me a mercy lay; we've been friends for years and still are.

[Diezel]

Date down.

[Diezel]

If I am good enough for a 33 years old then why am I not interesting to a 48 yo. It's f.vcked up.

 

Might be time to change that avatar to a cougar.

[normal person]

What do people consider "average?" I imagine everyone here will have a different interpretation of the demographic. Height, weight, income, location, looks. I also think most people might tend to describe themselves with the criteria. For me OLD is like shooting fish in a barrel, and I thought I was average or normal (hence the screen name) until I started reading threads like these.

[Kid_Charlemange]

What do people consider "average?" I imagine everyone here will have a different interpretation of the demographic. Height, weight, income, location, looks. I also think most people might tend to describe themselves with the criteria. For me OLD is like shooting fish in a barrel, and I thought I was average or normal (hence the screen name) until I started reading threads like these.

 

So did I. And let's face it you can't put a number on a person's looks. Some women think Brad Pitt looks freakish. Different tastes...

 

But when you average a bunch (as in, hundreds) of opinions, it becomes easier to "rank" people. There's a way in OKCupid to find out how many "stars" you have based on the scoring of other viewers. Mine was... on the low end, shall we say. *shrug* It's the hand I was dealt.

[kolleamm]

I read it. I think this guy is mentally ill, and that's why women won't date him. He sounds like a complete ass.

 

He's right about some of the stuff. Yes, there are more women than men. Yes, the attractive ones get hundreds if not thousands of message. And yes, men that would never approach this women IRL will "give it a shot" online. And yes, there are lot overweight women OL. Some have kids. All very true.

 

What he leaves out is that if he approaches a woman in a bar, all he knows is that she's attractive -- that's it. He whines about "wasting time" getting to know someone, only to find out she's a flake (or, more likely, they eventually figure out he's a psycho), but what about he wasted time (and money) at the bar? Say you get a cute one to talk to you. You spend some time. Buy some drinks. Maybe dance. Then at some point you find out the deal killer: She has kids at home. She's an idiot. She's a felon. She thinks the world is 7,000 years old. She's a racist. She's a psycho. She's married. She's still in love with her ex. Put your own deal-killer here: _______.

 

With OLD, you can screen out a lot of stuff. No, there's no bra size option (nor should there be). Since that's what seems to matter the most to this guy, OLD is not for him. I accept that. It's not the most important factor for me. In fact, it's not in the top 100.

 

As for attractiveness, I call BS. Some people don't photograph that well. Some people don't use good photos. I am 100% certain if he saw photos of those "more attractive" women in bars, he'd say the same thing.

 

Does OLD make people too picky? Absolutely. When you can sort on a thousand variables, it's harder to get past a few sticking points, and sooo easy to just click "next." I think both sexes are looking for perfection (or their version of it) in a lot of cases. Let's do the math: Say there are 20 "sortable" options (height, body type, offspring, smoker, etc). Some only have two options, others have 10. Let's compromise at 10. So, how many possible combinations are there?

 

Most people would say 20^5, or 3.2 million. That's a lot of possibilities. Problem is, it's wrong. The actual formula would be 5^20, or about 95 trillion. Perfection? Good luck. And hell, you can take it further. Consider OKC, where there are up to 1,000 questions, any of which can be used to sort out an unfit match. 5^1000 is a number bigger than my computer can handle.

 

Extreme examples? Sure. But the point stands: When it's effortless to create the exact pattern that you're looking for, it weeds out a tremendous number of potential mates that you might click with. Hell, my ex was, I thought, perfect for me. But she was a pack-a-day smoker, so I'd never even see her profile today. I didn't meet her online, I met her through mutual friends.

 

(She also turned out to be a liar, a cheat, and a cougar)

 

My point is, OLD isn't perfect, and it's created a subset of candidates who are using it to be way too picky, and at the same time, there are too many candidates. It's a sensory overload. But it can work. I met a wife on eHarmony a decade ago. I've dated about a dozen women this year from OLD. All were very nice. Some were probably "fatties" according to the clown in the blog. Maybe my standards are lower, but I'm pretty happy with the results so far.

 

In comparison, the number of women I've dated NOT from OLD this year?

 

One -- and she was an old girlfriend from over a decade ago who basically gave me a mercy lay; we've been friends for years and still are.

 

Yes, online dating will work for some group of people. However the main thing about RLD is the face to face chemistry with the other person. You get to know them better as well as express emotion and body language throughout your conversations.

You also don't have 100 other guys talking to them at once which leaves them more room to focus on you. And come on let's face it, people online can easily lie about who they are, when you interact face to face you are what you are, no lies, and the same thing applies to them as well.

RLD also allows you to show off your confidence something which is practically impossible to do online.

And last but not least, what's more attractive? A 2D picture on a screen? Or a 3D real life person you can actually interact with and not tediously have to type to?

 

I believe online dating sounded like a great idea at first, it did to me anyways, however the sheer number of men and the anonymity it creates seems to ruin it for most guys and thus you just spend countless hours wasting your time.

[jay1983]

Nobody's mentioned all the girls just on there for attention, I say it makes up a good 50% of them.

[ponchsox]

With all the competition, it seems like the average male shouldn't be able to get any dates. How do average guys have any kind of success with online dating?

 

The average male can get TONS of dates if he plays his cards right. It's all about your behavior towards women.

[robbysurfs]

In my experience there is someone for everyone. Be yourself send a nice courteous message. For example comment on something she likes or something you are both into. If she responds then great, if not, then next. Remember be yourself the worst thing you could do is try and but a load of BS on your page meet a really cool chick and then she finds out that is not who you are and then your sh&t out of luck my friend....Being good looking or average or what ever you think you are is irrelevant and ultimately your ego messing with you. I get a lot of dates with OLD not because im tall or great looking or anything deemed hip cool or whatever its because I play me very well....

[ponchsox]

Ok, read this entire blog.

 

Roly's Mission: Why Online Dating SUCKS - for guys

 

After reading this blog you will give up on online dating just like I have and never turn back.

 

Bottom line is you are practically selling yourself short online compared to the type of women you could be getting in real life.

 

lol, that guy sounds like a douche. I'm sure he's a big catch

[kolleamm]

lol, that guy sounds like a douche. I'm sure he's a big catch

 

On some level I believe he is, but that's not the point. The point is that he gives us fairly convincing reasons on why online dating does not work for most guys.

 

I really hate to see guys going through this OLD bs. Then again them being online would only benefit me in real life, however that's not who I am.

[bson1257]

How do people with flaws actually get dates? It seems like most people wouldn't want anything to do with people that have flaws that are unattractive.

[PegNosePete]

Because some people can look beyond the physical.

[bson1257]

Because some people can look beyond the physical.

 

But physical is the first thing people notice

[SammySammy]

Some people aren't shallow, insensitive pricks and don't worry about the opinions of people who are.

[PegNosePete]

But physical is the first thing people notice

Yes of course but some people can look beyond it.

[Wisecrack]

By improving yourself. It's amusing what losing the weight around your stomach, dressing nice, a change of view in life and a change in how you carry yourself does in attracting others.

[Michelle ma Belle]

I'm in absolute agreement with PegNosePete and MidKnightDreams that there are indeed some people who CAN and DO see beyond JUST the physical...

 

BUT I also think that anyone, physically flawed or not, who gets to that place where they accept who they are learn to love themselves regardless of of anything or anyone goes a VERY long way in attracting wonderful things including dates.

 

There is definitely something very magnetic about these people.

 

Insecurity is NOT an attractive quality for anyone.