Wife's Behavior in Separation

[ColdFlow]

Sorry, this is part rant and part question.

 

My wife and I have been married for 2 years and together for almost 7. We have a 15 month old daughter together.

 

She's always been controlling and possibly even emotionally abusive (seemingly due to insecurities). Our fights (over "issues" such as me hanging out the washing inefficiently, even though I do literally 100% of the cooking and cleaning) over the years have been regular and often result in me being kicked out for hours at a time, or if I refuse to leave, physically attacked and screamed at. I've tried to leave many times after being kicked out, but before I can access any cash, she's emptied the bank accounts. That's if I can get my wallet and keys in the first place which she will do anything to stop me having when I'm kicked out (obviously to reduce my chance of leaving and not returning). My entire family and friends have been exiled because she either had issues with them or I defended her behavior, so I've got almost zero support in that regard.

 

Some of the things I've put up with: giving excuses for every work function because I'm not allowed to go out at night without her; her putting a password on my own laptop, so I can't use it without her permission; and any movie or TV series I'm interested in needs the IMDB parent's guide evaluated by her first so she can make sure there's no sexual content. I'm not allowed to google things or look on Wikipedia because it "annoys" her. She constantly tells me I'm a worthless husband, I don't make enough money, that she wants a divorce, and that she wants another baby, just not with me. We have had sex once in the last 1.5 years.

 

It's constantly got worse and part of it's my fault in the sense that I put up with this from the beginning by ignoring red flags and attempting to patch things up using marriage for example, thinking it'd make her happy or somehow change her. The abuse and control has made me feel low constantly and probably even resent her. She wonders why I can't even shed a tear when we discuss breaking up--I'm that over it that I don't care about anything but my daughter now. I dread being around my wife and walking on eggshells constantly.

 

A month ago, my persistent paranoid state of cleaning up anything on my phone that could be twisted into me having done something wrong failed when I left a text from a female coworker on it. I'll admit it looked suspicious but was honestly innocent and I've never cheated on my wife. Regardless, at this point I was kicked out and ended up in a spare room underneath her parents' house (who support me and I think even feel sorry for me most of the time) until I could find share accommodation. Aside from worries in regards to my daughter, I took this as an opportunity to move on, which is what I thought my wife wanted anyway. I found accommodation which I'm in now and have already started to look after myself health-wise. Coworkers say how much happier I seem.

 

I have been doing the "180" since I moved out and trying to speak only about my daughter and visitation to my wife, at this stage, and generally not contacting her otherwise. But honestly, I want and need to move on because neither of us can be happy together. I want us both to be happy, and take care of our daughter as best we can, without being together. In this sense it's hard trying to remain friendly yet cold with my wife and my actual concern and confusion stems from this--I thought she'd be cold too, and unconcerned (considering she absolutely hates me) yet she's still trying to extend what I'm yet to figure out is control or compassion.

 

She contacts me, somewhat angered, claiming that I should be messaging her to tell her that I miss her (yet she does not message me), and that I should still be reporting in (as I did when we were together) about what I was doing on my lunch break and when I'm leaving work. I really don't understand this considering we're separated and maybe I've become blinded over the years but I'm not sure if this is just a facet of her control or love/concern.

 

Does she actually care, or is she still trying to control me even now that we're apart? Her behavior is making it obvious that my fantasy of becoming divorced yet remaining friends and raising our daughter as best we can is not going to happen, and I'm going to have to enrage her by filing for divorce myself and endure a long legal battle if I want to see my daughter, who she's already threatened to keep from me if I ever speak to my family again.

[dreamingoftigers]

Yes,

 

It's control. 110% control.

 

The fact that you posted what you posted and still have to ask this shows how traumatized you've become by it.

 

I've learned a few things about "control" though.

She probably honestly does feel betrayed by the "googling and wikipediaing" you've done.

I'm not kidding.

 

I'm not saying it's right or to EVER EVER EVER tolerate it, but it's orobabky true nonetheless.

 

Was she abandoned or abused in childhood?

Because she is VERY Enmeshed with what she needs to have under her thumb.

Of course it's not normal but it seems that she hasn't forged much of a separate identity and has serious trust issues.

But enough about her.

 

Let's move on to you and your daughter.

 

Document EVERYTHING. (Every check-in demand. EVERYTHING)

Get a lawyer ASAP.

When is the last time you have seen your daughter?

 

Frankly, I was raised by a control-freak father. If the blankets on his bed were arranged this way or that, he would take it as rejection from my mother.

An environment like this is far too rigid and very toxic to a child.

Fight tooth and nail for custody etc.

TOOTH AND NAIL.

Go toe to toe with her. Face her head on and don't back down.

She's so used to being in control of you that she won't see it coming.

 

It honestly sounds like you could use some EMDR therapy to get through the trauma you've endured and to build-up your boundaries.

 

No more check-ins. Period. The only thing you call for is visitation with your daughter etc. get it on a schedule. She WILL mess with the schedule. DO NOT let it get your goat or take the bait to argue with her. She will do a series of aggressive and passive-aggressive things to exhaust you and them shame you into giving up. (And possibly coming home).

 

This isn't about love. This is about her having the power to keep you on a string.

 

She will keep trying to hit you wherever you are vulnerable. I find that the best way to deal with this is to portray not being vulnerable.

She will use your daughter. She's made that clear. Get your family's support. Pronto.

 

About your daughter: you may have to say to her straight-faced. "Do your worst. It's going to court anyhow, right? So it's out of my hands. Our attorneys will figure it out."

 

One of the few times I suggest actually taling it to court.

You KNOW you can't trust her to keep a parenting agreement unless it becomes a "non-vulnerable" zone in your relationship.

 

I'm so sorry you are going through this.

I wish I could make a meme for you to send to her.

A picture of you on your laptop with Wikipedia open with the caption "I don't always look things up on Wikipedia, but when I do I google them first."

 

Or even just send pic of the latest google doodle saying "thinking of you. Because now I google what I want Biotch!"

[george roy]

< snip >

 

Document EVERYTHING. (Every check-in demand. EVERYTHING)

Get a lawyer ASAP.

 

< snip >

 

Yes, document everything.

 

First off, a day planner would be the best bet for that. Keep a running log of conversations, with a short note regarding the context of the conversation.

1/6/14, (wife's name) says I won't see daughter.

 

The next investment would be a pocket-type audio recorder. They are reasonably priced nowadays. You can get a real nice Olympus for around $60.

Tons of file space, and they can record up to 80+ hours before it's full of memory. And it's simple enough to download the audio files to a computer. Plenty of them will save the file with the time and date.

 

An attachment for the phone (about another $10) would be a nice accessory, too.

 

Hit up a pawn shop, flea market, or Craigslist for a used laptop. I've seen them anywhere from $75 to $300. Sure, use it to surf the web, but it's primary use will be for downloading the audio files from the recorder.

 

It's one of the best investments you'll make right now.

 

It's real easy to get into the "he said, she said" when it comes down to it.

 

But the tape don't lie.

[Grumpybutfun]

Control. Get a good lawyer and get your daughter away from this woman. She sounds abusive and mentally unstable. It is time for you to save your daughter and yourself from any further abuse. Refer to her as your ex wife now. She is cruel and controlling and has only concerns and compassion for herself.

Good luck because you are going to need it to get this crazy toxic woman out of your lives. Repair your relationships and reach out for support from your friends and family. It is time to do some atoning for letting her manipulate those relationships...you owe some apologies for letting her alienate you from those who love you.

Best,

Grumps

[nj10018]

before you start tape recording make sure you know the laws of your state when it comes to one party consent.

[littlejaz]

Control. Get a good lawyer and get your daughter away from this woman. She sounds abusive and mentally unstable. It is time for you to save your daughter and yourself from any further abuse. Refer to her as your ex wife now. She is cruel and controlling and has only concerns and compassion for herself.

Good luck because you are going to need it to get this crazy toxic woman out of your lives. Repair your relationships and reach out for support from your friends and family. It is time to do some atoning for letting her manipulate those relationships...you owe some apologies for letting her alienate you from those who love you.

Best,

Grumps

 

 

I went through a relationship somewhat like this and I was amazed at the open arms I received from my family once they knew I was out of it. It didn't take much in the way of apologies - they were just happy that I realized what was going on and was free of him. So reach out you also may be amazed at how easily they forget the past.

[M30USA]

OP,

 

People such as your current wife are BEYOND REPROACH. Nothing they do is ever wrong. They will not accept criticism. They are above even any rules. For this reason, she will not change!

 

People can change from alcoholism, sex addiction, drugs, being a bad parent or spouse, and even hardcore crimes like murder! All it takes is humility, admission of error, then repentance. Does your wife have this? It sounds not. So if this is the case, there is less hope for her to change than even a truly repentant murderer of pediphile!

[ColdFlow]

Thank you all for the great advice. I'll look into and take every piece of it.

 

From your responses it's obvious it's probably even worse than I thought. In addition, today at work, a coworker told me that our manager had asked her in a one-on-one meeting whether I was alright because I "seemed down". Maybe I had convinced myself somewhat that it was all normal, at times, but then extreme situations throughout the year have ignited something in me as well. One example caught me completely off guard and had no reasoning behind it: we were in the store together and heading towards the checkout. I grabbed a Coke out of the fridge and went to place it on the checkout, and she literally screamed "NO! PUT IT BACK!" like I was a child, turning the heads of everyone in the vicinity.

 

Still, after reading your responses today I was feeling better equipped to slowly move ahead. However, she called me again today, in tears because I hadn't messaged or called her to say that I loved her or missed her for example. She's now saying the separation was not meant to push us towards divorce, and that she does love me. I don't really know how I'm supposed to be responding to this. I could do the opposite of the 180 (since it's working, but with undesired effect) but I feel like I'd be putting on an act.

 

It makes it really difficult when she acts like this now, but deep down I know we're better off apart and you're all correct. I just need to stop myself from being pulled back in because I know I'll regret it.

 

To answer your questions, tigers, I last saw my daughter on the weekend and she seems to be struggling to agree to when the next or regular visits will be. She keeps referring to herself as "us", as though she's tied up to my daughter. She wasn't abused in childhood, but her previous boyfriend was physically abusive and did things behind her back like smoked cigarettes. Strange that she seems to have adopted some of his nature now in our relationship.

[ColdFlow]

She called again and I ended up pretty much telling her that we'd both be happier apart and I don't see how she can't see that either. She was in tears again the whole time, saying "you're supposed to love me", "don't you want to be with us" and "you promised to take care of me". If I bring up visitation, she says she "can't do that" and that if I want to be a father to my daughter, I have to be a husband to her as well. It's hard, but I'll keep fighting through it.

[M30USA]

Cold flow,

 

During my marriage, my boss at work asked me the same question. She asked, "Is everything alright at home?"

 

Just to give you an idea of how brainwashed I was, I got nervous when she asked me because I felt that if she found out about my then-wife, I'd be even worse off. It was almost like Stockholm Syndrome.

[oldshirt]

She called again and I ended up pretty much telling her that we'd both be happier apart and I don't see how she can't see that either. She was in tears again the whole time, saying "you're supposed to love me", "don't you want to be with us" and "you promised to take care of me". If I bring up visitation, she says she "can't do that" and that if I want to be a father to my daughter's, I have to be a husband to her as well. It's hard, but I'll keep fighting through it.

 

There's one thing you are going to have to understand here - you are not going to be able to "convince" her of anything and have her agree with you and work together in harmony with you.

 

She is not suddenly going to have a light bulb go off over her head and realize that you are right and that yours is the correct course of action.

 

Her agenda and objectives is to simply dominate you and to own your soul and to have you serve her. She will settle for nothing less.

 

If you want to live a life of sanity and free will, you are going to hav to determine what is in your best interests and what will be best for your well being.

 

Then you will have to take your balls down from the shelf she's been hiding them on, Velcro them back on and then do whatever it is you have to do to protect yourself, your assets and resources and your relationship with your child.

 

You are going to hav to do this WITHOUT her buy-in and you are going to hav to do it despite all her disagreements, protests, manipulations and attempts to sabotage.

 

You can't appease her and you can't wait for her approval. The only thing she will ever approve of is you completely complying with her psychopathic whims.

 

Stop trying to reason with it. It can't be reasoned with. It only wants to own you. It doesn't care what you think, what you want or what is best for all of you. It only wants what it wants in the moment.

[M30USA]

Last post says it all. Might as well close the thread.

[littlejaz]

Last post says it all. Might as well close the thread.

 

I second this.

 

Except it is helpful to keep posting and getting support from those who have been through this before.

[M30USA]

I second this.

 

Except it is helpful to keep posting and getting support from those who have been through this before.

 

Maybe we should go ahead and close down the entire LS forum.

[dreamingoftigers]

You can not negotiate with her demons.

 

Honestly, they will keep going until they eat you alive.

 

Now i have a couple of questions:

 

How old are you and she?

Has she been/is she suicidal?

Have you read about boundaries?

[dreamingoftigers]

She called again and I ended up pretty much telling her that we'd both be happier apart and I don't see how she can't see that either. She was in tears again the whole time, saying "you're supposed to love me", "don't you want to be with us" and "you promised to take care of me". If I bring up visitation, she says she "can't do that" and that if I want to be a father to my daughter, I have to be a husband to her as well. It's hard, but I'll keep fighting through it.

 

I guarantee you she cant see where shes screwed up here.

 

You dont owe her it but maybe for yourself compile a list of behaviours and incidences thst occurred.

 

Examine them. Lots to learn there.

The first red flags, the tactics she uses etc.

[M30USA]

I guarantee you she cant see where shes screwed up here.

 

You dont owe her it but maybe for yourself compile a list of behaviours and incidences thst occurred.

 

Examine them. Lots to learn there.

The first red flags, the tactics she uses etc.

 

One of life's great ironies, supported by the Bible, is that those who think they are good are more likely to be bad people; while those who think they are bad are more likely to be good. Only once a person knows their true human nature and tendency to corrupt can they begin to be good. But self-righteousness and pride blind people to the truth.

 

"Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? There is more hope for a fool than for him." (Proverbs 26:12 KJV)

[SnapCracklePop]

before you start tape recording make sure you know the laws of your state when it comes to one party consent.

 

You are allowed to record conversations that involve you and the other person. If you are involved in the conversation the other person cannot assume privacy. Basically, you have the right to divulge details of a conversation that you are a part of. Same goes for email discussions. If you receive an email, you can let anyone else read it (that email belongs to you).

 

But, if you came by an email or a conversation accidentally and you were never meant to be part of that discussion. You would also cross the line if you had a recording device running, and then left that device in the room to capture other's conversations.

 

Totally agree with documenting everything, and if you are able to record your phone calls with her... it will likely come in handy.

[Madman81]

She called again and I ended up pretty much telling her that we'd both be happier apart and I don't see how she can't see that either. She was in tears again the whole time, saying "you're supposed to love me", "don't you want to be with us" and "you promised to take care of me". If I bring up visitation, she says she "can't do that" and that if I want to be a father to my daughter, I have to be a husband to her as well. It's hard, but I'll keep fighting through it.

I think you need to do a few things, right away.

 

1. Freeze any financial assets that you still can freeze.

 

2. If your paychecks get deposited to a joint account, or an account she has access to, change that immediately.

 

3. Wait for her to go out of the formerly shared home. While she's out, go there with a friend or family member or two and take all of your belongings, and up to half of the possessions (although be sure to leave her with enough to care for your child).

 

4. Ask for a meeting with your boss. At the meeting, tell him what you're going through, in case anybody complains about your attitude or the quality of your work. I can't stress this enough -- people go through crappy life upheavals, and at least your employer will know that it's due to a massive life-changing event that you didn't ask for.

 

5. GET A LAWYER, and have him or her seek a freeze on all assets until a division can be ordered or agreed on, as well as interim access to your child. She does NOT get to dictate whether or how much access you get.

 

6. Once you've done all of the above, you can respond to her whiny texts with something like "I'm not telling you I miss you, because I don't miss you." The object is to get her to stop trying to guilt trip you; from the sounds of things, she's done that before, successfully. If she's expressing anger towards you, rather than sadness/guilt-inducing stuff, you're more likely to stay firm in your resolve to get out. But be sure to NOT start doing those things until you've protected your own rights, as set out above.

 

Good luck mang...

[imtooconfused]

Last post says it all. Might as well close the thread.

 

Please don't even think those thoughts. This man needs our support now more than ever.

 

ColdFlow, I don't have any substantial advice, but I you have my 110% support.

[ColdFlow]

Thank you all! All great posts, and I'm taking all your advice. I also reconnected with my parents who accepted my apologies but I still feel terrible especially now knowing that my mother had to go through counselling because of this.

 

I know what my (ex) wife's behavior currently is after all the reading I've been doing, but it's strange that it's all apparently my fault and she doesn't understand why this is happening. Trying to get through it however.

 

But it's going down more quickly than I hoped. I thought we could do this amicably and get through most of the process without involving lawyers.

 

She called again tonight and despite last night's discussion, expected me to tell her how much I love her etc. and I shut it down again. She's now telling me I can't see my daughter because "it doesn't work that way" and "you have to be both a husband and a father". She's also telling me to move to the other side of the country which is obviously ridiculous. Now, she's saying she already has divorce papers, that I need to sign, and I need to sign for our daughter's passport so she can "take her away".

 

This just happened so i don't know what to do but I guess it involves a lawyer, which I haven't investigated yet.

 

I missed some questions from tigers:

 

- She is 26, I am 25

- She hasn't been seriously suicidal, but whenever we had big fights, she would take out a knife and threaten to cut herself, or sometimes lightly cut herself across the wrists but nothing that ever caused serious injury

- I haven't read about boundaries but I guess I should?

 

Thanks!

[ColdFlow]

1. Freeze any financial assets that you still can freeze.

 

2. If your paychecks get deposited to a joint account, or an account she has access to, change that immediately.

 

3. Wait for her to go out of the formerly shared home. While she's out, go there with a friend or family member or two and take all of your belongings, and up to half of the possessions (although be sure to leave her with enough to care for your child).

 

4. Ask for a meeting with your boss. At the meeting, tell him what you're going through, in case anybody complains about your attitude or the quality of your work. I can't stress this enough -- people go through crappy life upheavals, and at least your employer will know that it's due to a massive life-changing event that you didn't ask for.

 

5. GET A LAWYER, and have him or her seek a freeze on all assets until a division can be ordered or agreed on, as well as interim access to your child. She does NOT get to dictate whether or how much access you get.

 

6. Once you've done all of the above, you can respond to her whiny texts with something like "I'm not telling you I miss you, because I don't miss you." The object is to get her to stop trying to guilt trip you; from the sounds of things, she's done that before, successfully.

 

1. We have some savings, but nothing significant. I planned on leaving it to her as she doesn't work and currently has our child but is this a bad idea? I thought it would help to avoid angering her further.

 

2. It's just gone into our joint account for this week, and after tonight, I'm not sure whether it'll be left in there tomorrow if I don't try to get all or some of it out now. I had planned on completely switching it over prior to next week's pay.

 

3. Fortunately while I had this opportunity initially, I did grab everything important such as my ID and personal possessions, and all my clothes. I can't say there's anything left I would care to take really as my current place is furnished sufficiently anyway. I've got what I need to move on with.

 

4. I will definitely do this, thanks. Looking back, I think my boss tried to address this about a month ago, but it came across to me as somewhat aggressive so I got defensive instead of opening up and deflected the blame onto study workload. I have a regularly-scheduled meeting on Monday and I'll be sure to explain this time. I'm also 90% sure my boss is going to bring it up again.

 

5. Looking more and more like I need to do this as soon as possible. I'm just concerned about how much it could cost (perhaps a reason to salvage some of the savings).

 

6. Yes she has tripped me successfully many times and entered nice-mode (like she is now--or was) after a fight. I'm determined to stay strong this time.

[ColdFlow]

Sorry for triple-posting but I feel like I am dealing with two different women. She called back tonight, this time not angry but sobbing again with all the messages of love. Now after maybe 6 months since the last time, she now apparently wants sex every day.

 

Part of me wants to believe it but most of me knows it's all BS and she just wants me back in control after letting the leash out too far. It's so confusing yet I'm still trying to fight against it. I don't know what I need to tell her for this to end as amicably as possible, and to stop her from trying to jab me with nice words and memories.

[M30USA]

Please don't even think those thoughts. This man needs our support now more than ever.

 

ColdFlow, I don't have any substantial advice, but I you have my 110% support.

 

Gosh, you guys need to recognize when someone's being humorous.

[SnapCracklePop]

Sorry for triple-posting but I feel like I am dealing with two different women. She called back tonight, this time not angry but sobbing again with all the messages of love. Now after maybe 6 months since the last time, she now apparently wants sex every day.

 

Part of me wants to believe it but most of me knows it's all BS and she just wants me back in control after letting the leash out too far. It's so confusing yet I'm still trying to fight against it. I don't know what I need to tell her for this to end as amicably as possible, and to stop her from trying to jab me with nice words and memories.

 

You've made a good start! Great advise from Madman81 for your situation. For sure the sooner you can direct your paycheck to your own private account - the better.

 

She sounds bi-polar. But it also sounds like she wants control so that she can have her life her way. Cutting you down, making you question your normal activities, flip flopping on behaviour, controlling all aspects of your life from the sound of it - it can put anyone in a state where you are constantly on the look out so you don't rock the boat. And from an outsider looking in, we are all saying WTF - who puts up with that???

 

She has (had) successfully brought you to a place where you will continue bringing a paycheck home (and if she has a paycheck too, then she is enjoying both), not have any life whatsoever, while she continues to live as she pleases. Of course she is being nice now... she is losing control of the gravy train.

 

When she emptied the bank accounts, do you know what she did with the money?