Women's earning capability

[nescafe1982]

I've had men, boyfriends, etc, act resentful towards me because of my ambition and successes. Actually, my last LTR ended because he couldn't get a grip and had so much of his own self-worth tied into being a better "provider" than his woman. He was a musician, mind you. Glad that ended.

 

After that breakup, I found my to my chagrin that many grown-ass, well educated, and quite successful men felt threatened by my own ambitions re: careers. I do not work in a high-income field, so it was never about numbers I suppose, but about some sort of perceived power parity. I went through the ringer for a while because of it... how would I date if this is what guys were like?

 

Then I met current SO, who cheers me on and expects same from me (he's also quite ambitious). Now, our mutual career ambitions have brought some issues (the two-body problem being one of them. We've been together 3 years and had to do long-distance twice so far), but he redeemed in me the belief that many men do not harbor that particular insecurity that makes them "date down."

 

And this is neither here nor there for this thread, but I notice that men who have this anxiety about women's performance (or overperformance) also feel threatened by women coworkers and colleagues. It's a big problem... bigger than romantic relationships IME.

 

But men who are comfortable being with a wife no matter what she earns are everywhere. I can count some dozen married couples in my office who have a female bread-winner. The men seem just as happy as any others out there.

Edited January 8, 2014 by nescafe1982

[Els]

I'm confused. Wasn't this thread by a woman who was concerned about men lamenting their wives/gfs making less than them, not the other way round?

[nescafe1982]

I'm confused. Wasn't this thread by a woman who was concerned about men lamenting their wives/gfs making less than them, not the other way round?

 

(rereads OP) Good point. Not sure I have as much experience with that one. I currently make something like 15% my current SO's salary level, but it hasn't (yet) caused the kinds of resentment and problems that the original poster brings up.

 

I'd be interested in hearing more about this topic, though.

[almond]

I've never had a problem with this. I am super ambitious and follow through, and have reaped the benefits.

 

I've never been involved with a man that had any desire for me to fail professionally/academically in order for him to feel better about himself. I am very secure myself, and I think I can sniff out insecurity in a person rather quickly...with guys like this, it's over before it even gets close to beginning.

 

There is no bigger turn off.

 

If a man made less than me, it also wouldn't concern me. As long as they have passion and direction, I'm happy.

[Revolver]

The whole men are intimidated by successful women thing was started by female CEOs and major business owners. You know ... Women with real money and serious power

 

The problem now is that it has trickled down to point where women who simply have a degree and a decent job use that excuse to why they aren't as successful in the dating realm.

[Badsingularity]

How about a change of roles? You earning millions and she earns zero. Or perhaps more in a real life situation - she earns around 50k you are earning 1000k.

 

I still would not care.

 

The amount of money someone earns has nothing to do with their value as a human being.

 

I made more than my wife for years. Now she makes more than me.

 

It does not matter.

[gaius]

If a man made less than me, it also wouldn't concern me. As long as they have passion and direction, I'm happy.

I hear this a lot. From women who make less than their man. The proof is in who you actually choose to be with.

 

As far as the comment someone made about a lot of the men in her office dating female breadwinners, I'm pretty sure if you had an inside view of their relationships you would see there are more likely than not serious problems because of it.

 

You isn't the first woman to come here all worried about not being equal to her man in some way. It's a lie society tells you growing up that that's what men really want and find sexy. Like santa claus.

Edited January 9, 2014 by gaius

[almond]

I hear this a lot. From women who make less than their man. The proof is in who you actually choose to be with.

 

I have always earned much more than my boyfriend of five years, and will most probably continue to do so till retirement.

[thefooloftheyear]

Just an observation...

 

Most of the guys i know and myself make more than their wives ever did. Even the professional ones...Most of the guys in my circle are businessmen and entrepeneurs..All of their wives became SAHM's after the kids came and most only worked PT jobs after the kids got a little older. They rarely, if ever complain about money and how much they contribute...If they do, its more in a joking fashion...They are the heavy here and thats the end of it.

 

But in the cases I know where the women are the heavy, they treat their husbands like little children when it comes to money...They measure each cent and complain incessantly if the guy doesnt work or is spending more than his "allowance".....Id NEVER be a part of that, I dont care who she is or how much she makes..

 

If I want a $2700. watch..Ill buy it!..:laugh:

 

YMMV

 

TFY

Edited January 9, 2014 by thefooloftheyear

[Els]

I hear this a lot. From women who make less than their man. The proof is in who you actually choose to be with.

 

Hmmm. Touche.

 

I will stick my neck out and be un-PC and say I probably prefer equal or more on the guy's side. I probably would be a little turned off by less, just like how I'd be minorly turned off by a beer belly, but neither is a dealbreaker. Purely personal preference, may change as circumstances change. It's been culturally ingrained in me, probably.

 

I wouldn't leave a long-term partner if he lost his job or something, though, for sure. I suppose it's kind of like the 'weight' argument, where a LT partner putting on 20 lbs is much less of an issue than someone you are newly dating being 20 lbs heavier than their picture.

 

I still think there are men and women who don't care either way, too. I've seen a few happy Rs in which the woman earned more. Different strokes for different folks and all that.

Edited January 9, 2014 by Elswyth

[youdunsay]

Cool responses.

[nescafe1982]

As far as the comment someone made about a lot of the men in her office dating female breadwinners, I'm pretty sure if you had an inside view of their relationships you would see there are more likely than not serious problems because of it.

 

Of course we can't see what their relationships look like from the inside. But they are by all accounts just as happy as any relationship where the man and woman earn the same amount, or where the man is the breadwinner.

 

Just saying they are not *necessarily* without conflict does not negate my point: households with female breadwinners have every bit the same likelihood of being happy unions as any other.

[gaius]

Just saying they are not *necessarily* without conflict does not negate my point: households with female breadwinners have every bit the same likelihood of being happy unions as any other.

The vast majority of the anecdotal evidence and all the studies I've seen disagree with you. Unless you want to argue men having lower self esteem is the key to a successful relationship.

 

Men feel worse about themselves when female partners succeed

If I want a $2700. watch..Ill buy it!..:laugh:

That thread popped into my head too. I'm sure from the outside they seem like a normal, happy couple. That's what happens though.

[gaius]

I have always earned much more than my boyfriend of five years, and will most probably continue to do so till retirement.

Do you live together?

Hmmm. Touche.

 

I will stick my neck out and be un-PC and say I probably prefer equal or more on the guy's side. I probably would be a little turned off by less, just like how I'd be minorly turned off by a beer belly, but neither is a dealbreaker. Purely personal preference, may change as circumstances change. It's been culturally ingrained in me, probably.

 

I wouldn't leave a long-term partner if he lost his job or something, though, for sure. I suppose it's kind of like the 'weight' argument, where a LT partner putting on 20 lbs is much less of an issue than someone you are newly dating being 20 lbs heavier than their picture.

I figured when I saw your massage thread that he had some kind of higher status than you. Or else you wouldn't be working nearly as hard.

[almond]

Do you live together?

 

Yes, for the last four years.

[gaius]

Yes, for the last four years.

Does he make enough to contribute half of everything? Or are you basically the breadwinner?

 

I'm pretty sure one of my ex's had more money than I do but we still had the dynamic where I planned and paid for the vast majority of stuff. Maybe you're one of the few exceptions that it does work for but I noticed a brand new thread in the cheating forum just now about how a guy with a sugar momma he lives with is cheating with another woman. Which seems to be more the norm in those kind of situations than what you've got going.

[almond]

I am the breadwinner. He contributes, but I have a lot more. He can look after himself, but I enjoy good food and activities that cost $$$$, and I am more than happy to pay for the both of us. I wouldn't want to restrict my lifestyle because my partner can't afford to pay half. I pay for some things, he pays for others. It may sound cliche, but it really is just money - I am happy to share with my partner. I have purchased some properties and shares that are solely mine, but everything else we pretty much combine.

 

I can definitely see that this may not be the norm, and that some men may feel emasculated or similar. I can also see how many women would feel uncomfortable if their partners were not the main earner.

 

It's just not like that for us. He has always bragged about my accomplishments to his friends and family - he is genuinely proud and happy for me when I achieve things. He helps to motivate me to work harder and go further. I have seen no evidence that his self-esteem is linked with my success, but if it is, it would be the opposite - he would get down on himself if I were struggling, not feel better. He has supported me the whole way through, and helped me get to where I am.

 

He does at times get his moments where he feels uncomfortable with me paying for most things, but these are rare and fleeting. As a female, I imagine I would have the exact same feelings if someone were paying for me also. He works just as hard, if not harder than I do - I just happen to get paid more. It means nothing to me, and he seems to be genuinely okay with it also.

 

I'm just happy that we have enough money to enjoy ourselves and our time together - I don't care which bank account it happens to be deposited into each fortnight.

Edited January 9, 2014 by almond

[RedRobin]

You're intimidating enough to a lot of guys even before they find out you have a masters.

 

 

PhD

 

I don't know what your guy does for a living, but there are some men who have done stuff so remarkable even if the woman outearns him 50x his ego can take it. I know Jillian Barberie married a Marine Recon Sniper who I'm sure she makes a lot more money than but they seem happy. It's just a very rare thing to fine a guy like that and you probably have to manage his ego carefully even when you do.

The guy I just started seeing had some concerns about 'all my accomplishments'. It was getting a little annoying. I told him I just want a simple life with someone I'm attracted to, shares my values, and who I share enough interests with that we enjoy our free time with each other.

 

 

It's like short guys who complain that they can't get a date. I have no problems dating short(er) guys. It is the GUY who often has a problem dating women who are taller than them.

 

 

After a few years of dating after my divorce, I'm just now starting to avoid men who don't have something major going for them. Not because *I* care... but because THEY do and I'm sick of their insecurity that displays itself in all kinds of BS power trips, lying, cheating, etc.

 

 

Fine, if THEY need to make more, be taller, have a more high powered career than me to feel good about themselves... it sucks for me, because it limits my dating pool even more... but it is something I'm growing to accept.

 

 

Edited: I'll add that I've come across a couple of male 'gold diggers'... They are looking for a woman to provide a financial safety net for them... She is either much younger, makes a substantial income, or has a tidy retirement package. I can think of two men I dated who seemed to have lots of questions about the value of my house and other assets.

Edited January 9, 2014 by RedRobin

[Emilia]

The guy I just started seeing had some concerns about 'all my accomplishments'. It was getting a little annoying. I told him I just want a simple life with someone I'm attracted to, shares my values, and who I share enough interests with that we enjoy our free time with each other.

 

 

It's like short guys who complain that they can't get a date. I have no problems dating short(er) guys. It is the GUY who often has a problem dating women who are taller than them.

 

 

After a few years of dating after my divorce, I'm just now starting to avoid men who don't have something major going for them. Not because *I* care... but because THEY do and I'm sick of their insecurity that displays itself in all kinds of BS power trips, lying, cheating, etc.

I've experienced similar but don't lose heart. Maybe he needs a little time to adjust. Perhaps he needs to see whether he will feel it's not a competitive dynamic. My mother is in a competitive relationship and it looks like hell from the outside. If she didn't make him feel bad at times for being less accomplished than her, it would work much better.

[Silly_Girl]

I earn more than my husband, but he's a much better person than me. Works for us.

[Els]

I figured when I saw your massage thread that he had some kind of higher status than you. Or else you wouldn't be working nearly as hard.

 

Huh, that was random. The massage thread had nothing to do with salary, really. It was intended as a reward for the mindblowing orgasms he has been giving me. As per my responses on the 'Enjoying Seeing My Partner's Pleasure More Than My Own' thread.

Edited January 9, 2014 by Elswyth

[RedRobin]

I've experienced similar but don't lose heart. Maybe he needs a little time to adjust. Perhaps he needs to see whether he will feel it's not a competitive dynamic. My mother is in a competitive relationship and it looks like hell from the outside. If she didn't make him feel bad at times for being less accomplished than her, it would work much better.

 

 

I do give them time, but it still concerns me. What I find is they often need to look for something else they can feel 'superior' about instead of just looking for compatibility... and if they can't find 'it' (whatever IT IS that they need to feel superior about) then they resort to these other tactics.

 

 

Unfortunately, it doesn't always manifest itself right away. It could happen anytime. I blame it on our culture that dictates that men have to be better than women... more experienced, more money, more whatever in order to be a 'man'. It's obnoxious that people are set up to be competitors by outside factors. I've never done it. All I care about is meeting someone who doesn't need to cut my legs off in order to feel special and isn't constantly comparing himself to me.

[gaius]

The guy I just started seeing had some concerns about 'all my accomplishments'. It was getting a little annoying. I told him I just want a simple life with someone I'm attracted to, shares my values, and who I share enough interests with that we enjoy our free time with each other.

 

 

It's like short guys who complain that they can't get a date. I have no problems dating short(er) guys. It is the GUY who often has a problem dating women who are taller than them.

 

After a few years of dating after my divorce, I'm just now starting to avoid men who don't have something major going for them. Not because *I* care... but because THEY do and I'm sick of their insecurity that displays itself in all kinds of BS power trips, lying, cheating, etc.

 

Fine, if THEY need to make more, be taller, have a more high powered career than me to feel good about themselves... it sucks for me, because it limits my dating pool even more... but it is something I'm growing to accept.

 

Edited: I'll add that I've come across a couple of male 'gold diggers'... They are looking for a woman to provide a financial safety net for them... She is either much younger, makes a substantial income, or has a tidy retirement package. I can think of two men I dated who seemed to have lots of questions about the value of my house and other assets.

In all fairness, some women with enormous intellect and success manage to keep a less successful man's ego in tact. With an incredible amount of effort. You don't seem to show much interest in that though a lot of times. Which I don't blame you for, you shouldn't have to, but it is what it is.

 

I searched your name for "upstate" by the way and you only mentioned something about it twice 6 months ago. Probably the same with PhD.

[gaius]

Huh, that was random. The massage thread had nothing to do with salary, really. It was intended as a reward for the mindblowing orgasms he has been giving me. As per my responses on the 'Enjoying Seeing My Partner's Pleasure More Than My Own' thread.

How can you have mindblowing orgasms if he isn't more successful than you on some level?

 

I'm just teasing Els, glad you're still keeping things interesting. Too bad every woman isn't like that.

[thefooloftheyear]

I do give them time, but it still concerns me. What I find is they often need to look for something else they can feel 'superior' about instead of just looking for compatibility... and if they can't find 'it' (whatever IT IS that they need to feel superior about) then they resort to these other tactics.

 

 

Unfortunately, it doesn't always manifest itself right away. It could happen anytime. I blame it on our culture that dictates that men have to be better than women... more experienced, more money, more whatever in order to be a 'man'. It's obnoxious that people are set up to be competitors by outside factors. I've never done it. All I care about is meeting someone who doesn't need to cut my legs off in order to feel special and isn't constantly comparing himself to me.

 

Seems as though the stars never line up..

 

I think its about time for you to go lesbian...

 

TFY