Million.to.1 Posted January 8, 2014 Posted January 8, 2014 I'm a huge fan of Derren Brown. I would definitely have his babies if he asked me. This video is 45mins long, but it is EXTREMELY interesting. I would really appreciate people watching the whole thing before commenting on the thread. He looks at the psychology behind a belief in God or a higher power. He gives an atheist stem cell scientist, a religious experience which affects her greatly and makes her question her previous non-beliefs. He really is very clever. Derren himself is an atheist and so am I. I fully respect all personal religious beliefs, and think that faith is a very positive thing in many peoples lives. I 'm not intending to start a heated debate on whether or not there is a God. I would just really love to hear opinions from people with a strong faith about what is covered in this show. Is was made for entertainment purposes, and intended to be viewed as such. Derren Brown. "How to convert an atheist"
M30USA Posted January 8, 2014 Posted January 8, 2014 I'm a huge fan of Derren Brown. I would definitely have his babies if he asked me. This video is 45mins long, but it is EXTREMELY interesting. I would really appreciate people watching the whole thing before commenting on the thread. He looks at the psychology behind a belief in God or a higher power. He gives an atheist stem cell scientist, a religious experience which affects her greatly and makes her question her previous non-beliefs. He really is very clever. Derren himself is an atheist and so am I. I fully respect all personal religious beliefs, and think that faith is a very positive thing in many peoples lives. I 'm not intending to start a heated debate on whether or not there is a God. I would just really love to hear opinions from people with a strong faith about what is covered in this show. Is was made for entertainment purposes, and intended to be viewed as such. Derren Brown. "How to convert an atheist" Faulty link.
TheFinalWord Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 I don't think most believers will deny that spiritual experiences intact with a person's psychology. I also don't think that it is too difficult to manipulate a person's psychology, if a person knows what they are doing. I know many people have had a "conversion" experience at crusades and only about 5% claim to be Christians 3 years later. No doubt, people can become "charmed" by a orator's charisma. That is not to say no one has a genuine conversion. You can study the parable of the sower Jesus told. I have had several manifestations of spiritual experiences that go beyond my own personal psychology and manifested into the physical (outside of my own mind). But various experiences are not what allow me to remain in faith. It is God who is faithful, I am not. If anyone is saved, it is because of His faithfulness, not their own. No one can come to Christ, unless Christ calls them. People's psychologies and emotions are fickle. Heck one minute we can bless God and in the next breath curse man, who was made in God's image. It is why we can love Christ, and still sin. It why one minute, Peter could say he would lay down his life, and the next minute he is denying Christ. It is God's Grace, not our righteousness. Hope this helps. 3
Author Million.to.1 Posted December 13, 2014 Author Posted December 13, 2014 I'm bumping this thread again because of some great discussion in other religious threads ATM and I am really interested to here what some real believers think about this.
autumnnight Posted December 13, 2014 Posted December 13, 2014 I had seen this before and it is very interesting. It illustrates a little why I personally have a problem with those emotional, lay them in the aisles, "just one more verse for the sinners to repent" type revival meetings. They are more about emotional manipulation and parlor tricks than real redemption, even if that is not the intent. In some ways I liken it to having a baby/being a mother. I used to babysit, I held newborn babies, I had friends who were pregnant who were very candid about their experiences. But I could not really connect with the experience of this human growing inside me and then giving birth to him/her until I experienced it. There was just no way. I grew up in church and went to many an emotional meeting. But when I chose to repent of sin and give my life to Christ it was not an emotional thing. It just WAS. I knew that it was right and that He was He. Have I experienced emotion related to my faith? Of course. But it is more a knowing that I cannot fully articulate just like I could never adequately describe to my teenage daughter how it felt when she moved inside me. 1
amaysngrace Posted December 13, 2014 Posted December 13, 2014 I'm bumping this thread again because of some great discussion in other religious threads ATM and I am really interested to here what some real believers think about this. Do you really want to know what I think? I think a 45 minute clip is going to make people click on and click off almost immediately. I'm not surprised that you have so few responses. 2
Author Million.to.1 Posted December 13, 2014 Author Posted December 13, 2014 Do you really want to know what I think? I think a 45 minute clip is going to make people click on and click off almost immediately. I'm not surprised that you have so few responses. Right. Thanks for stopping by to tell us all about your short attention span. I'm sorry that what is involved in the clip is not condensed to fast paced, 6 million view type video that everyone will have time to watch. I appreciate that, and I'm not seeking pages of responses. But thanks again for your one, albeit, pointless. Those that do watch it, I'm sure will not find it time wasted. It's fascinating!
todreaminblue Posted December 13, 2014 Posted December 13, 2014 i feel the video isnt entertainment.......its bias and manipulation in itself...its rather sad.......that a person would make a forty five minute video about how a religious conversion unto god is manipulated rather than actually felt and then call it entertainment...a full conversion you dont turn your back on....manipulation you do turn your back on...it doesnt last....and an athiest causing religious feelings in some one....just seems wrong to do it for ****s and giggles...........deb 1
Author Million.to.1 Posted December 13, 2014 Author Posted December 13, 2014 I had seen this before and it is very interesting. It illustrates a little why I personally have a problem with those emotional, lay them in the aisles, "just one more verse for the sinners to repent" type revival meetings. They are more about emotional manipulation and parlor tricks than real redemption, even if that is not the intent. In some ways I liken it to having a baby/being a mother. I used to babysit, I held newborn babies, I had friends who were pregnant who were very candid about their experiences. But I could not really connect with the experience of this human growing inside me and then giving birth to him/her until I experienced it. There was just no way. I grew up in church and went to many an emotional meeting. But when I chose to repent of sin and give my life to Christ it was not an emotional thing. It just WAS. I knew that it was right and that He was He. Have I experienced emotion related to my faith? Of course. But it is more a knowing that I cannot fully articulate just like I could never adequately describe to my teenage daughter how it felt when she moved inside me. Thanks for your response autumnnight. I'm glad you think it's interesting and I appreciate your take on it. Have you seen some of his other work? He did one on faith healing too. I guess I find it intriguing to see the workings of how religion can be used to manipulate people. And it is, not always and not in every church, but no one can deny that "salvation" is appealing and therefore, marketable. There is much corruption within churches and people out there using these kinds of tools for their own financial gain. I guess, for me, that's more evidence to not trust it.
Author Million.to.1 Posted December 13, 2014 Author Posted December 13, 2014 (edited) i feel the video isnt entertainment.......its bias and manipulation in itself...its rather sad.......that a person would make a forty five minute video about how a religious conversion unto god is manipulated rather than actually felt and then call it entertainment...a full conversion you dont turn your back on....manipulation you do turn your back on...it doesnt last....and an athiest causing religious feelings in some one....just seems wrong to do it for ****s and giggles...........deb It's not really for sh*ts and giggles deb. It's a TV show and classed as entertainment yes, but Derren brown is a thought provoking, highly educated and skilled man who uses entertainment to expose the tools of manipulation is MANY different ways, not just religion. He does all the stuff "physics" do and also shows it for what it is. He even hypnotised a guy to commit an assassination of the famous Steven fry. I don't think you would find it sad at all if this particular video didn't strike a cord with your personal views perhaps? ... but I guess, that is the point of them. Not all entertainment is meant to make you "feel good" Anybody who has seen the movie "the piano teacher" knows that. (don't see it. ) Edited December 13, 2014 by Million.to.1 1
Ronni_W Posted December 13, 2014 Posted December 13, 2014 There is much corruption within churches and people out there using these kinds of tools for their own financial gain. I guess, for me, that's more evidence to not trust it. SO much agree with you! Jesus' message was, "the kingdom of God is within"...meaning do NOT look at the outer churches and the preachers and the false teachers, for your own salvation/ascension. It is NOT there in their rituals and requirements and wanting you to think of yourself as a "sinner" who needs them to "save" you. But the most ardent followers of Jesus -- at least, who claim to be his most ardent and devoted followers -- STILL are not listening to what he said. AND they can find thirty-three ways to justify their words and actions and beliefs and faith in their idolatry and graven images.
todreaminblue Posted December 13, 2014 Posted December 13, 2014 It's not really for sh*ts and giggles deb. It's a TV show and classed as entertainment yes, but Derren brown is a thought provoking, highly educated and skilled man who uses entertainment to expose the tools of manipulation is MANY different ways, not just religion. He does all the stuff "physics" do and also shows it for what it is. He even hypnotised a guy to commit an assassination of the famous Steven fry. I don't think you would find it sad at all if this particular video didn't strike a cord with your personal views perhaps? ... but I guess, that is the point of them. Not all entertainment is meant to make you "feel good" Anybody who has seen the movie "the piano teacher" knows that. (don't see it. ) i guess when i think of entertainment i think of something that i would enjoy doing.......rather than not enjoy......which of course is bias towards what i love to do...... to me a spiritual awakening....si a beautiful thing not meant to be entertaining...i feel its sort of sacred and special and unique ....and graceful and beautiful...its a feeling of not being alone in the darkest times...adn thats where i had my spiritual awakenings...in the darkest of times.......the saddest and most violent moments of my life......i cant make light of conversion as just a thing....it isnt a thing ..... ...nor would i want to have my awakening debunked in a forty five minute period of video clip....to cast doubt and shadow among moments of comfort in trials i have gone through.....and what he is doing isnt a conversion anyway.......liek when i was baptised.....before i was ...i actually planned on committing suicide....it is pretty ingrained that was a pivotal moment in my life...made me continue on....... the clip makes me feel sad......you are right......it is probably just me.....that feels sad...i felt a bit angry too.......but it does make my heart ache and i am truthful about that.......i dont like manipulation......especially to do with god.......its not right in my opinion with my bias.....i respect your view sorry if offended you....peace out.......deb 2
amaysngrace Posted December 14, 2014 Posted December 14, 2014 Right. Thanks for stopping by to tell us all about your short attention span. I'm sorry that what is involved in the clip is not condensed to fast paced, 6 million view type video that everyone will have time to watch. I appreciate that, and I'm not seeking pages of responses. But thanks again for your one, albeit, pointless. Those that do watch it, I'm sure will not find it time wasted. It's fascinating! I'm not the only one with a short attention span. Only 180k people out of a world population of over 7 billion people viewed it. I guess not too many people find him to be charismatic enough to waste 45 minutes of their lives on or entertain the thought of making babies with him. People of faith...84% of the earths population...don't worship mere mortals and uploading a YouTube video ranks pretty low on the perform-a-miracle bar. 2
Author Million.to.1 Posted December 14, 2014 Author Posted December 14, 2014 i guess when i think of entertainment i think of something that i would enjoy doing.......rather than not enjoy......which of course is bias towards what i love to do...... to me a spiritual awakening....si a beautiful thing not meant to be entertaining...i feel its sort of sacred and special and unique ....and graceful and beautiful...its a feeling of not being alone in the darkest times...adn thats where i had my spiritual awakenings...in the darkest of times.......the saddest and most violent moments of my life......i cant make light of conversion as just a thing....it isnt a thing ..... ...nor would i want to have my awakening debunked in a forty five minute period of video clip....to cast doubt and shadow among moments of comfort in trials i have gone through.....and what he is doing isnt a conversion anyway.......liek when i was baptised.....before i was ...i actually planned on committing suicide....it is pretty ingrained that was a pivotal moment in my life...made me continue on....... the clip makes me feel sad......you are right......it is probably just me.....that feels sad...i felt a bit angry too.......but it does make my heart ache and i am truthful about that.......i dont like manipulation......especially to do with god.......its not right in my opinion with my bias.....i respect your view sorry if offended you....peace out.......deb Deb, I'm not offended, honestly, and I completely respect how you feel about this, And don't want to make you feel bad, sad, or undermine any personal experience that has led you to something you feel is positive in your life. ..... but understand that this video, and all video's like it that Derren makes, are designed to be positive. To free people from traps of manipulation. To expose fraudsters. The church uses manipulation all the time to convert people. There was an article in my local news about our millionaire "destiny church" rev, who targets the poorest people and the whole church donate huge portions of their salary to the church. He drives a fancy car and has a yacht, and most of the congregation are on welfare. Over 100K was thrown at his feet last week. It's sick. And if a few of those people even QUESTIONED the fact that they might be being manipulated, then great, cause they are. I'm not saying that your experience is/was like that, or that you are trapped. But if watching a video makes you THAT uncomfortable... there is something in that. You should always question. that's how we move forward. Challenging though it may be. Can I ask... did you actually watch it? I'm not the only one with a short attention span. Only 180k people out of a world population of over 7 billion people viewed it. I guess not too many people find him to be charismatic enough to waste 45 minutes of their lives on or entertain the thought of making babies with him. People of faith...84% of the earths population...don't worship mere mortals and uploading a YouTube video ranks pretty low on the perform-a-miracle bar. I don't care how many views it gotten. I asked in my OP for people not to comment unless they watched the video. So please Amay. Clearly you have no idea who Derren brown is, or how deservingly famous he is. (outside of America) Plenty of people know all about him. A very smart "mere mortal" who does a lot more than upload youtube vids. where is the face palm smilie? 2
endlessabyss Posted December 14, 2014 Posted December 14, 2014 (edited) The whole thing at the end where that girl got up and cried seemed fake to me. Maybe I'm being unreasonably skeptical about that. So, lets line em' up: smelling scents of mint through sound wavespeople getting scared in a dark roomDarren playing on a women's emotionspseudo-scienceConclusion: God doesn't exist? The experiments were juvenile at best, laughable at worst. I wasn't sure if Darren was a comedian or a magician. Where's the random assignment? What's the independent/dependent variable? Control group? Artifact? What's the experimental design? Internal Validity? How to we know that the girls experience at the end wasn't due to a caffeine rush? Not getting enough sleep? A recent death in the family? etc. etc. etc. etc. The list goes on and on. Laughing so hard right now. And I still believe in God Edited December 14, 2014 by endlessabyss 2
endlessabyss Posted December 14, 2014 Posted December 14, 2014 (edited) If you want something more sophisticated, go to Anti-Citizen x's YouTube channel. He has a more academic look at the psychology of religion. Even though most of his arguments have been debunked, they're way more sophisticated than what Darren has to offer. Edited December 14, 2014 by endlessabyss
todreaminblue Posted December 14, 2014 Posted December 14, 2014 Deb, I'm not offended, honestly, and I completely respect how you feel about this, And don't want to make you feel bad, sad, or undermine any personal experience that has led you to something you feel is positive in your life. ..... but understand that this video, and all video's like it that Derren makes, are designed to be positive. To free people from traps of manipulation. To expose fraudsters. The church uses manipulation all the time to convert people. There was an article in my local news about our millionaire "destiny church" rev, who targets the poorest people and the whole church donate huge portions of their salary to the church. He drives a fancy car and has a yacht, and most of the congregation are on welfare. Over 100K was thrown at his feet last week. It's sick. And if a few of those people even QUESTIONED the fact that they might be being manipulated, then great, cause they are. I'm not saying that your experience is/was like that, or that you are trapped. But if watching a video makes you THAT uncomfortable... there is something in that. You should always question. that's how we move forward. Challenging though it may be. Can I ask... did you actually watch it? I don't care how many views it gotten. I asked in my OP for people not to comment unless they watched the video. So please Amay. Clearly you have no idea who Derren brown is, or how deservingly famous he is. (outside of America) Plenty of people know all about him. A very smart "mere mortal" who does a lot more than upload youtube vids. where is the face palm smilie? i watched most of it.....enough to get me upset then i stopped...it got me upset because it dirties christianity in general not my faith....my faith is unsullied but dirties the conversion process and throws doubt .....with untruth and half truths......he used psychological warfare to get a desired outcome......one of religious conversion......which for all intensive purposes wasnt real...that is what upsets me...why would you want to do that.......and then should you do that...my heart says no....its deceit.....and doesnt really prove anything other than to sully a beautiful uplifting experience into the shadows of doubt........conversion needs to go on....and it needs to be real conversions....to save eternal souls that should be eternal......i happen to believe its important for humanity....all of us to eb able to experience that coversion unto christ.............and so for that reason.....it upsets me......charletons abound for sure.....doesnt mean you should also be one to prove a point he also does a satanic ritual.....didnt understand the purpose fo that at all...other than it sucked........and he might be a learned man but he is participating in what he is talking against and claiming that to be real....so attacks christianity as a whole....not one faith or the bad faiths that trick people out of money.....christianity in general.....and that is sad..jesus didnt die for us not to believe in coming unto him is what is right for us to do to have that eternal life.......he died so that we could have that life changing direction which comes with a true conversion for every oen who is a sinner which is all of us.....so yes ...i am passionate.....and i love jesus.....i know in my heart that it doesnt feel right....not this clip.............deb 1
endlessabyss Posted December 14, 2014 Posted December 14, 2014 Here's a funny article about Brown: 'Derren Brown Using Fake Audience'
anne1707 Posted December 14, 2014 Posted December 14, 2014 Here's a funny article about Brown: 'Derren Brown Using Fake Audience' Which has been denied Derren Brown slams 'hurtful' accusations that zombie Apocalypse victim was fake - News - TV & Radio - The Independent I watched Derren's conversion programme when it was first broadcast, not just now, so these are my memories from that time. Whilst he made his religious views clear at the outset (which was the right thing to do), he then approached the subject in a respectful manner. If you watch more of his programmes, you would appreciate that his problem is with those who manipulate and take advantage of others and that he does his best to show how this can happen. In this particular show, he chose to focus on how SOME will do that for supposedly religious purposes. In other programmes where religion has been discussed, he has always shown great respect for those of genuine faith. His problem is with those who abuse those genuine believers for monetary gain. His shows are often challenging at times, thought provoking and also offer some interesting insight into how the human mind can work at both a conscious and unconscious level. I have also seen his live stage show. This man is no fake. 1
Author Million.to.1 Posted December 14, 2014 Author Posted December 14, 2014 Thank-you Anne. Someone who knows, yay! Many people aren't familiar with Derren so don't have a full scope of what he does exactly. It is broad and complex though, quite hard to describe. You really need to watch a few of his shows over the years to fully understand what he does. You are so lucky to have seen him live! For those of you that want to see a positive transformation experience .....and it doesn't challenge anyones faith, so you won't have to view it defensively.
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