Need Female Input Here

[sadman37]

Hi.

 

 

OK, my other thread got out of hand. I need women to chime in here please. This is regarding my wife's sexual innuendos and comments.

 

 

Here is what's up....in a nutshell.

 

 

I hurt my wife a lot in our marriage. She and I separated last October. She felt trapped and lost her sexual attraction toward me (because of the last hurtful thing I did about a year ago...no I did not cheat on her or hurt her physically) and she was fantasizing about another guy. She needed to get away from me so she would not feel trapped and would hopefully miss me and make things work out with me, down the road. She did not and does not want to cheat on me. She feels terrible for having feelings for another man. I helped her move to her new apartment last weekend.

She has mentioned to me how much better I have been this past month. She says she is thinking positive thoughts about me and really loves how I have changed, during our separation (I have gotten a better handle on my bi-polar disorder, which has driven her insane the past 12 years).

 

 

NO, we have not had sex since we separated. I have not pushed the issue, either. I never mention it, in fact.

 

 

Sexual comment #1: OK, so during the move, my wife explained how the lady who lives below her was telling her about her "fighting neighbors." Then, my wife said to me, as she grasped my hand tightly, "Yeah, soon she will have two "****ers" above her ha ha ha." (she meant me and her) I told her I would be glad to annoy the lady below by ****ing all night long. No sex happened. My wife just giggled and smiled, to let me know she was joking, and she then said, "That was bad. I shouldn't have said that." She grinned while saying this. Before she said any of the above, she had commented on my large hands, which she has always liked. She said I have nice hands and then went, "mmmmm."

 

 

Sexual comment #2: The next day, after I helped her with all sorts of stuff, she told me, "I owe you so much. I owe owe owe you. I guess I could strip my clothes off and be naked for you." I said, "Sure I will go for that." She giggled, in that way that lets a guy know she was joking, and nothing sexual happened.

 

 

She and I are hugging for a much longer period of time than we did, the first two months of our separation. She sometimes makes a soft moaning sound when we hug and when I sort of grasp her back or sides with my hands. She didn't do this until just this past week.

 

 

So, she isn't attracted to me in a sexual way, so she says, so why would she make such comments?

 

 

Is she testing me in some weird womanly way?

 

 

Is she slowly becoming sexually attracted to me again?

 

 

What is going on?

 

 

Keep in mind that barely a week ago, she told me that she really wants to work on "us" slowly. She says that she really likes "the new me." I have been working on things about myself. She is confused still and trying to change her heart.

 

 

OH one last thing. New years Eve, she wanted me to bring booze, for her to drink. She has not drank in over 5 years. I am an alcoholic and assured her I would be fine watching her drink. I was hoping to have sex with her. She got tipsy and began dancing around all sexy like.

 

 

She let me kiss her and get close to her. We did stuff but did not have sex. She said "No...I can't" when I tried. We came close. She told me, "See, I like you! I wouldn't do this stuff with you if I didn't like you."

[Arieswoman]

Sadman37,

Are you guys separated or not?

 

You need to get some boundaries in place here while you consider your options.

 

Ask her if she wants to reconcile. Ask yourself if that is what you want.

 

If you agree then you both need to get into counsellingt before you go any further.

 

If she doesn't then you need to go NC (unless you have kids in which case you need to have some rules in place for visitation etc.)

[sadman37]

yes we are separated

 

 

She is hoping things work out between us. She is not ready for counseling yet.

 

 

She has PTSD or darn near PTSD because of the hurt I caused her.

 

 

She tells me she wants me and her to be together and then the next moment she is not sure.

 

 

She is confused.

 

I want to know what's up with her sexual comments. Any input about this?

Edited January 8, 2014 by sadman37

[Arieswoman]

If she has PTSD then I wouldn't put much emphasis on anything she says at the moment, as she will be confused.

 

Why don't you ask her what she means?

[sadman37]

I ask her what she means, and she just giggles and says, "Oh I shouldn't have said that,"

 

 

Yes she is confused, for sure,

 

 

Here is the thing, though. She was cold toward me for the first two months of our separation. This past week she has warmed up toward me and has made those few sexual comments.

 

 

Our conversations have been totally positive, too, lately. No arguing or negative crap,.

[sadman37]

The only time there is slight agitation is when I bring up that she needs help with the PTSD stuff.

 

 

she says she can't think about it and that it makes her feel anxious and stuff.

 

 

I wish she would just go and get help. she says that getting help will make her feel worse instead of better.

 

 

I don't know what to do.

[Canadiangirl78]

Hey sadman, just wanted to offer my opinion here, for whatever it's worth.

 

The first thing that popped out at me when reading your post was when she said "I like you". That stuck out to me only because to me, those are not words I would want to hear from someone I was/is MARRIED to. She is definetly trying to make sure that you stay hooked on her. I just think for her to say the word "like" is a bit..well not good.

 

I am not saying there is no hope for your relationship BUT she is keeping you at arms length here. Also, with her sexual comments, it sounds to me like she just wants to make sure that you still find her sexy and she's fishing for reassurance from you, an ego boost for herself. By saying these things to you and then immediately taking them back by saying she's just kidding is something she is doing for herself, not you. She wants to make sure that you're around incase she does decide to come back to you.

 

Ultimately, you have to do what's right for you but I would be very very careful with your heart here, I think I read that there is another man involved in this situation (sorry read through quickly) but if that's the case, you are going to have to decide if you want to stick around and allow her to play with your feelings for her like that. She may be confused and unsure of who she wants and all of this flirty talk is simply her making sure that you're there when and if she makes her decision. It's up to you though whether or not you're going to stick around and keep paying her game.

 

 

I could be way off base here, it's just my take on it, I wish you all the luck in the world..

[pteromom]

It could be what Canadiangirl said, that she is just doing it to keep you on the line.

 

But my take is that it is more head vs. heart for her.

 

You said you hurt her badly and she has PTSD from what you did... so it must have been pretty bad.

 

So she's with you, and she's feeling loving or horny feelings toward you, and makes these little flirty comments. Then her head butts in and says "What are you doing? Do you want to get hurt again?!" so she backpedals.

 

I think the long hugs and little moans are good signs, and what she really needs to see from you in order to get to the next level is true understanding of whatever you did and true change so she can trust you won't hurt her again.

 

But it seems promising to me! (without reading any of your other threads and going by this one only)

[pteromom]

...and I wouldn't apply her comment about losing her sexual attraction to you to how she is feeling today.

 

Resentment kills sexual feelings for women, so if she had distanced herself back then to protect her heart, it makes sense that sexual attraction would die too. But if she's rebuilding her love for you, the sexual attraction absolutely could be returning.

 

But - it's fragile. Just remember how fragile it is since it was broken and superglued back together. And care for it accordingly.

[pteromom]

The only time there is slight agitation is when I bring up that she needs help with the PTSD stuff.

 

 

she says she can't think about it and that it makes her feel anxious and stuff.

 

 

I wish she would just go and get help. she says that getting help will make her feel worse instead of better.

 

 

I don't know what to do.

 

She's avoiding the pain of dealing with it. Drop it, and instead of insisting she gets help, just fully accept who she is right now. As she heals, if she needs outside help, she will figure that out herself.

[ChloelankshearMFTi]

It sounds like she is slowly warming up to you again and trying to re-connect with you. However, it sounds like she is still frightened/scared so I would advise you to proceed very slowly without pressuring her.

[oldshirt]

yes we are separated

 

 

She is hoping things work out between us. She is not ready for counseling yet.

 

 

She has PTSD or darn near PTSD because of the hurt I caused her.

 

 

 

 

 

Why aren't you both in counseling?????

 

Why is she ready for a separation but not ready for counseling?

 

Unless she fled for her safety in the middle of the night, why wasn't counseling part of the separation process?

 

If she ultimately wants to reconcile, why isn't counseling part of the reconciliation process?

 

What does she say she needs in order to be "ready" for counseling?

 

Why are you discussing her change in behavior and attitude with strangers on the internet internet instead of discussing it with a counselor?

 

Also, PTSD is a diagnosis that needs to be evaluated, diagnosed and treated by professional. Has she seen a doctor/psychiatrist/psychologist that made that determination or is that something you diagnosed her with or that she diagnosed herself with?

[phreckles]

Well, I was with my STBXH for 10+ years. We had a decent sexual relationship. Our emotional connectedness was not right on the other hand. That's why we're divorcing.

 

The sexual attraction may still remain. There's still a lot of residual attraction for me, but if she's got it, your STBXW shouldn't act on it. Even if it the attraction remains, it doesn't mean that you should use it to decide whether or not you can work things out between the two of you.

[Shocked Suzie]

To me this would be...

 

She is seeing that you are still hanging, that she still hasn't totally lost you, she wants an ego stroke and knowing a man wants her just makes her feel better about herself

 

... She is being unfair, selfish and playing with your emotions, you need to back off and stop allowing her to make you feel this way.

 

Backing off will highlight if there is any hope or just head messing

 

If you are separating then you guys in the early stages should in fact separate and stop holding on, it just confuses you and slows the whole process down... Which just hurts!

 

SS x

[oldshirt]

Ok I just read your other thread. There are a lot of very dark, bad things going on here. I'm also going to assume that in the interest of time and bandwidth that we are only being told the very tip of the iceberg here.

 

Since this whole scenario has elements of extreme ritualistic past abuse, mental illness, alcoholism, animal cruelty, potential infidelity etc, this is beyond the capabilities of strangers on the internet to address effectively.

 

My recommendation is to continue with your therapy,continue with your treatment for your BPD, and continue with your self help and self improvement.

 

As for her, this is going to sound a little contradictory to you because of all of your issues and problems, but she has no business not being in therapy herself.

 

My recommendation to you is to insist on her getting into IC and both of you getting into MC to address all these multiple layers of dysfunction with professionals.

 

Even if she is as good a person as you claim her to be, she would have to be pretty crazy by now after being with you for a dozen years. That sounds like an insult and a put down but I truly do not mean it to be!! It's just a fact of life -crazy rubs off on others.

 

You are going through a lot of hard work to better yourself and are going through a big change. It's not reasonable for you to have to go through all of this to get yourself in a good place, only to have her come back untreated.

 

That's like only treating one person for gonorrhea and then once it's cleared up in that person, reintroducing the other person who still has it.

 

If you want her back, you have to insist she enter counseling too before becoming involved with her or she is just going to bring the dysfunction back just like bringing back the Clap.

[sadman37]

Thank you all.

 

 

Yes I will cool it on the "please get help" stuff, for now. She is stressed out and needs time.

 

 

I tend to believe what pteromom wrote.

 

 

I tend to believe she is wanting me, in every way, at times. Then, her head tells her to be careful, so I won't hurt her again. She wants me but cannot endure another hurt, from me.

 

 

She did tell me that she wants us to be together and feels this very strongly, at times, but then she gets knocked back into her "protective wall is up" mode again.

 

 

Perhaps, her sexual comments were just her way of kind of letting me know that she is thinking of me in sexual ways more than she was a month ago. I wish I knew what was going through her head when she told me those things.

 

 

She started wearing her rings again but on her right hand. She says she is slowly working toward us being us again. That's better than not wearing the rings at all, right?

 

 

I truly believe she is waiting to see if I can remain stable for 6 months or longer.

 

 

I just recently got my meds right and have not been prone to severe highs and have not been prone to even more severe lows.

 

 

She has commented on how much she loves it when I am stable and how she feels closer to me now than she has in a long, long time.

 

 

She agreed with me when I told her we are closer now than when we were living together.

 

 

She also has distanced herself from her mother because her mother puts bad ideas in her head about me. She says I will poison my family's food and steal things, etc. etc. My wife told me that our relationship will be better, without her Mom in her life. This seems like a good sign, to me.

 

 

And when she said she "liked me," she was pretty drunk. She said all sorts of stuff that night. She has more control than most people when she drinks, and she can talk very coherently. She told me she would not have done what we did that night, if it had been another man.

 

 

She tells me she loves me, which I know she does. Heck she put up with me through Hell and back, for 12 years.

 

She didn't even sleep with the one guy she "loved," during our first separation, and she HATED me and was DEAD to me.

 

 

She came darn close to having sex with him, but she ended up "coming to her senses," which is what she told me when I asked her about it.

 

I know this because I read her journal....it presented itself to me, and I just could not resist.

Edited January 9, 2014 by sadman37

[sadman37]

Things got a little hot and heavy today again, if you know what I mean.

 

 

I was helping around her place and then stuff just happened.....but not ALL the stuff.

 

 

She liked it, and now she is feeling weird that she did it.

 

 

She told me she is afraid "it will come back and bite her."

 

 

She is just afraid that I will hurt her again, down the road.

 

 

That's what it seems like, anyway, based on what she said.

[whichwayisup]

You need to really be in control and not let things get too steamy in the bedroom. She feels awful later and that's not good. Keep it light hearted and simple. Massages, cuddles, kisses but not touching down below or clothes off. She isn't ready.

[OpheliaSong]

It I amazes me that your wife is telling you trauma you caused her gave her PTSD and all you are worried about is getting laid......

[sadman37]

It I amazes me that your wife is telling you trauma you caused her gave her PTSD and all you are worried about is getting laid......

 

 

Wrong. I am not worried about getting laid. I want her to get better.

 

 

I am wondering what her sexual advances mean, plain and simple, and I am wondering if it is a good sign that she is warming up to me again,

 

 

I have not initiated anything sexual with her. She initiated it.

 

 

I WANT her to get better. When she started the sexual stuff the other day, I found it impossible to tell her "stop." Being close to her in that way felt way too good, for me to stop.

 

 

I love her.

[sadman37]

You need to really be in control and not let things get too steamy in the bedroom. She feels awful later and that's not good. Keep it light hearted and simple. Massages, cuddles, kisses but not touching down below or clothes off. She isn't ready.

 

 

Thank you for your advice.

 

 

OK, so if she initiates something sexual again, should I tell her no, or should I say, "I really love this, but is this a good idea, for you, sweetie?"

 

 

I mean that sexual stuff the other day was initiated by her. I was sitting next to her with my hand on her thigh, as she tried to take a nap. She told me it was OK for me to put my hand on her hand or on her thigh. I WAS NOT expecting her to start doing the things she did.

 

 

We has sat close before, and I had my hand around her leg or my hand on top of her hand, but nothing sexual happened. The other day was a total surprise to me.

 

 

She was smiling and very relaxed after she did her thing...then she said, "Oh I shouldn't have done that. It is so frustrating. I am afraid this will come back to bite me."

 

 

I told her, "Let's just chalk it up as a nice time and leave it at that."

 

 

She told me she did feel an attraction to me, and that is why she did what she did. She doesn't just do these kinds of things with just any guy.

 

 

I hope this sexual thing didn't "knock her backwards." I fear that it did.

 

 

I'm not sure how to handle it if she initiates something sexual again.

 

 

Would it make her feel worse if I rejected her sexual advance(s)?

[sadman37]

Ok I just read your other thread. There are a lot of very dark, bad things going on here. I'm also going to assume that in the interest of time and bandwidth that we are only being told the very tip of the iceberg here.

 

Since this whole scenario has elements of extreme ritualistic past abuse, mental illness, alcoholism, animal cruelty, potential infidelity etc, this is beyond the capabilities of strangers on the internet to address effectively.

 

My recommendation is to continue with your therapy,continue with your treatment for your BPD, and continue with your self help and self improvement.

 

As for her, this is going to sound a little contradictory to you because of all of your issues and problems, but she has no business not being in therapy herself.

 

My recommendation to you is to insist on her getting into IC and both of you getting into MC to address all these multiple layers of dysfunction with professionals.

 

Even if she is as good a person as you claim her to be, she would have to be pretty crazy by now after being with you for a dozen years. That sounds like an insult and a put down but I truly do not mean it to be!! It's just a fact of life -crazy rubs off on others.

 

You are going through a lot of hard work to better yourself and are going through a big change. It's not reasonable for you to have to go through all of this to get yourself in a good place, only to have her come back untreated.

 

That's like only treating one person for gonorrhea and then once it's cleared up in that person, reintroducing the other person who still has it.

 

If you want her back, you have to insist she enter counseling too before becoming involved with her or she is just going to bring the dysfunction back just like bringing back the Clap.

 

 

 

I understand what you wrote. I could see insisting on counseling after we would be together. Right now she is a mess and not sure what to do at all. Hey, I am willing to deal with her stuff if we get back together and then slowly try to get her into counseling....after all, she did this with me, for many years.

 

 

I am not saying it will be easy....it won't be. It was hard for her dealing with me, for so long. She stuck by me, until 3 months ago...she is still there for me, in that way....it's weird.

 

 

I mean when you truly love someone, you love them even though they need help with certain things.....Right?

[sadman37]

Sigh....it seems that what it boils down to, at this point in time, is this:

 

 

Perhaps, I should tell her, "We need to actually be separated now. You need time to yourself, to figure out what you want in life. We can't keep doing this sort of together sort of apart thing anymore. I need to give you your space. You have a decision to make, and I am here for you, one way or the other."

 

 

Should I tell her something like this? Should I not visit her or have her visit me at all (except so I can see our son)?

 

 

It sure would be hard to tell her this.

 

 

It seems that things have progressed in a positive direction, with the way it has been going.

 

 

I mean it sure seems better than it was at the beginning of our separation and even since before our separation. Perhaps, telling her something like what I wrote above isn't necessary? If the way we have been doing things, so far, is making her feel closer to me, then should we just continue on with the way things are going and just let things happen?

 

 

It's confusing, to say the least.

Edited January 11, 2014 by sadman37