Wife was taking money out of my personal account without knowledge

January 9, 2014

She may have guessed the password, your browser remembered it, or she may have requested it and known the answers to the security questions.

The way you talk about the situation you separate things as "mine" and "hers" and "personal." In marriage, only "ours" works long term.

"Ours" only works if they had agreed to "ours" in the first place. This guy did not even give her his banking information. It is a huge breach of trust for her to find it out and misuse it! If she had desired 'ours', she should have talked to him about it. If she had needed money, she should have asked for it.

I don't think it's the money that is the issue here, it's the trust. If your wife isn't even trustworthy enough to not sneak out your funds behind your back, what CAN you trust her with? Your children? Your loyalty?

IMO this would be grounds for leaving as much as cheating would.

January 9, 2014

Preaching to the choir my friend.

There's more to this story that needs to shake out. Hoping the OP and his wife get to the bottom of it and rebuild.

January 9, 2014

I agree the breach of trust is serious but this is where "for richer or for poorer / for better or for worse" come into play. He has to consider the love for his wife and the child they just brought into the world. One can't just put on the tough guy act and take a hard line. They have to be civil and work through it together. You don't just throw away a marriage and walk out because of what realistically, is a speed bump. $3,100 and some credit card debt is very recoverable. I'm not saying it doesn't sting, but you can't see exit signs every time there's a problem in the marriage. It's a heck of a lot easier to get to the bottom of things with a cool head versus stomping your feet.

It's one thing to be poorer by virtue of circumstance; it's quite another to be poorer because of repeated compulsive and deliberately deceitful behavior on the part of a spouse. It's not just the money; it's the deception, and it's the consequences of the deception. Those consequences impact not only the husband (OP) but also his child who is left to depend on the adults raising him.

As I have said, I commend you for your perseverance under similar circumstances, but I don't think those vows would necessarily obligate him to tolerate what is essentially a series of deliberate decisions to disregard her end of the bargain. "For poorer" doesn't mean that he has to endure abuse, which is what this is. Both parties have to enter a relationship and maintain it in good faith. The behavior the OP describes isn't in good faith; it's taking advantage of a covenant and expecting the other person to be bound to his side of the agreement while she's freeing herself to do whatever she feels entitled to.

Nope. That's not how this thing called marriage works - at least not in my eyes. When it gets to that point, that "agreement" is null and void - voided by the offending party, not the respondent.

Partners make bad judgments from time to time. They might go out and make a bad purchase that their partner doesn't agree with. They might have too much to drink, drive home, and get busted and have to call up their better half from the clink in the middle of the night. Those are bad decisions, but they're presumably isolated cases. I differentiate between being an occasional idiot and being a deliberate manipulator.

January 9, 2014

I agree but don't think the OP confirmed that this was so.

pittguy578, what is the marital history behind your "personal account"? And what agreement is in place for the sharing of funds, expenses, savings, etc?

Mr. Lucky

The personal account is the one I had prior to marriage. We finally created our joint account in late October/early November. I honestly thought it was the best thing at the time. None of our personal savings were going into the joint account-just our paychecks so it would be easier to pay our joint expenses. All of our expenses were supposed to come out of that account. I had telephone transferred close to $900 that month to deal with one time expenses such as starting up daycare for our son. After that our paychecks should have covered everything.

There was really no set agreement in terms of funds other than the fact nothing should come out of our personal account for expenses unless a true emergency occured-and that I would hope I would be consulted to make a transfer. She is saying I gave her the password which I would never do. That is why I called in the transfers over the phone when the transfers needed to be made. Even if I did somehow give her the password, the extent of the transfers is inexcusable. If the roles were reversed, I would have said sweetie we are behind on this..can we take this out of your account. I would have asked her before each and every transaction, especially once it started to go well over the $100 mark,

She is saying she was really far behind on some of her bills because she was off of work from late February until October-due to the baby. But she never once discussed what the bills were and the payment amounts. Possibly I would have taken out a personal loan if things were that bad since I have a good credit history with my bank. I did not want to touch the savings because that was going to be for an emergency or a down payment on a house.

January 9, 2014

You could try to give her the benefit of the doubt and assume this was all a big misunderstanding and miscommunication, but I would only do that if:

You both are willing to sit down weekly and go over every bill and every account, and make payment decisions together
You change your passwords and institute strict security, similar to what carhill has mentioned
She agrees that accounts in your name are not to be touched by her without your written authorization, per transaction
You put all of this in writing, signed by both of you

If I were in your shoes, I would be furious. That money you carefully saved is your security and comfort, for you AND your family, now and for the future. She stole the money (yes, stole based on your account) and hence she undermined your security and peace of mind. Not to mention the gaslighting.

January 9, 2014

"Ours" only works if they had agreed to "ours" in the first place. This guy did not even give her his banking information. It is a huge breach of trust for her to find it out and misuse it! If she had desired 'ours', she should have talked to him about it. If she had needed money, she should have asked for it.

I don't think it's the money that is the issue here, it's the trust. If your wife isn't even trustworthy enough to not sneak out your funds behind your back, what CAN you trust her with? Your children? Your loyalty?

IMO this would be grounds for leaving as much as cheating would.

I had somewhat of a bad feeling about setting up a joint account in the first place, but I thought if we are just putting our paychecks into it and I had my separate account it couldn't be too bad.

The trust issue is what is killing me more than the money. These transfers occured over a two month period, and she did not mention a single one of them to me. Even if I had given her the password, I would hope she would have asked me before doing anything. She said maybe she thought she transferred $1000-she didn't realize the extent of her transfers, but she obviously saw my balance going down on the account that wasn't supposed to be used for our expenses.

January 9, 2014

The personal account is the one I had prior to marriage. We finally created our joint account in late October/early November. I honestly thought it was the best thing at the time. None of our personal savings were going into the joint account-just our paychecks so it would be easier to pay our joint expenses. All of our expenses were supposed to come out of that account. I had telephone transferred close to $900 that month to deal with one time expenses such as starting up daycare for our son. After that our paychecks should have covered everything.

There was really no set agreement in terms of funds other than the fact nothing should come out of our personal account for expenses unless a true emergency occured-and that I would hope I would be consulted to make a transfer. She is saying I gave her the password which I would never do. That is why I called in the transfers over the phone when the transfers needed to be made. Even if I did somehow give her the password, the extent of the transfers is inexcusable. If the roles were reversed, I would have said sweetie we are behind on this..can we take this out of your account. I would have asked her before each and every transaction, especially once it started to go well over the $100 mark,

She is saying she was really far behind on some of her bills because she was off of work from late February until October-due to the baby. But she never once discussed what the bills were and the payment amounts. Possibly I would have taken out a personal loan if things were that bad since I have a good credit history with my bank. I did not want to touch the savings because that was going to be for an emergency or a down payment on a house.

Now she's really twisting her truth and trying to make you doubt yourself. That's terrible!

Demand to see every bill she's referring to and check balances.

I don't believe her. I think she's trying to pull a fast one. You need to check further! Get busy!

January 9, 2014

It's obvious that she's not the sharpest knife in the drawer because she had to know that if you ever checked your account and saw a ton of money taken out that you would be asking questions.

This doesn't make any sense. She had to know you would find out.

January 9, 2014

Scary version:

New baby, locked him in. Do what one wants. What can he do? Divorce her? Then she, as the impoverished and out of work full-time mother, collects maximum child support and maximum alimony for his income level, which is apparently quite modest. This is in addition to the apparent cash grab to 'pay her bills'.

You see, if a person is of a certain mindset, the combination of social hacks and using the law to their advantage can be devastating. We're already seeing the social hacks. What remains is whether or not it will go to law.

OP, question: How much do you know about your spouse's FOO (family of origin). IME, such behavior patterns are generally familial at their core, especially those so blatantly violative of the marital trust. Any insight?

January 9, 2014

It's obvious that she's not the sharpest knife in the drawer because she had to know that if you ever checked your account and saw a ton of money taken out that you would be asking questions.

This doesn't make any sense. She had to know you would find out.

Maybe she did...and possibly she was going to try to use our son as a trump card?

January 9, 2014

You could try to give her the benefit of the doubt and assume this was all a big misunderstanding and miscommunication, but I would only do that if:

You both are willing to sit down weekly and go over every bill and every account, and make payment decisions together
You change your passwords and institute strict security, similar to what carhill has mentioned
She agrees that accounts in your name are not to be touched by her without your written authorization, per transaction
You put all of this in writing, signed by both of you
If I were in your shoes, I would be furious. That money you carefully saved is your security and comfort, for you AND your family, now and for the future. She stole the money (yes, stole based on your account) and hence she undermined your security and peace of mind. Not to mention the gaslighting.

That was the other aspect of it. That was supposed to be for emergencies i.e. car repairs, a new car, or a down payment on a house.

I don't spend anything on myself. It's not as if I was saving it to buy a sports car and an xbox. I am very frugal and don't believe in excessive spending or going into debt.

The other killer is that is all of my savings. I was jobless (gotten laid off from a company after 10 years) when I found out she was pregnant. I cashed out my pension and my 401k to make sure we had enough resources for the baby in case I didn't get a job in time. I was really panicing I did find a job, but it was taken out already so I used it for new furniture/accessories for the baby/medical bills for him. I didn't put anything on credit as I hate to go into unnessary debt. I recall paying some of her bills out of it, and paying for our expenses with it while she was out of work.

January 9, 2014

Even IF she heard you passwords at one time - she still didn't ask permission to spend the money in savings!

And she did it on several occasions without asking.

What exactly did she show you? Where did the money go? You need to see her evidence!

Did you ask to see what she paid with that money?

The fact that she doesn't think she did anything wrong is very concerning!

January 9, 2014

Put the breach of trust issue aside for a minute.

She has debt. You're married. It's both of your debt.

You have a personal account. You're married. It's both of your money.

Yeah, it sucks, but she used the money to pay the debt. Taking a personal loan would have incurred interest charges, thus, wasting more money.

I'm not excusing the fact that your wife burned you by her lack of communication. She definitely should have been open and honest with you.

You have to work on communication and the trust issue. It's not doomsday.

You can either let your marriage be defined by this, or work together to move past it.

January 9, 2014

Put the breach of trust issue aside for a minute.

She has debt. You're married. It's both of your debt.

You have a personal account. You're married. It's both of your money.

Yeah, it sucks, but she used the money to pay the debt. Taking a personal loan would have incurred interest charges, thus, wasting more money.

I'm not excusing the fact that your wife burned you by her lack of communication. She definitely should have been open and honest with you.

You have to work on communication and the trust issue. It's not doomsday.

You can either let your marriage be defined by this, or work together to move past it.

This.

Take a deep breath and agree to work on your trust and communication issues.

January 9, 2014

I will be back later. Things just got worse. I didn't look back into October. The total amount of unauthorized transactions comes to $3900:(

January 9, 2014

Put the breach of trust issue aside for a minute.

She has debt. You're married. It's both of your debt.

You have a personal account. You're married. It's both of your money.

Yeah, it sucks, but she used the money to pay the debt. Taking a personal loan would have incurred interest charges, thus, wasting more money.

I'm not excusing the fact that your wife burned you by her lack of communication. She definitely should have been open and honest with you.

You have to work on communication and the trust issue. It's not doomsday.

You can either let your marriage be defined by this, or work together to move past it.

Wrong.

People have different financial arrangements. Pretty clear they have a joint / separate account setup. Sounds like she has a personal account, he has a personal account, and they have a joint account to pay expenses.

Funny how she gets access to his money, but he doesn't get access to hers.

January 9, 2014

OP, sorry to hear. Things were bound to get worse before they get better. It's a tough pill to swallow.

January 9, 2014

For simplicity, this rule generally applies. The more complex parameters, not germaine to this discussion, were outlined in great detail, and at substantial cost, by my attorney. It cost me a lot of money to protect my separate assets; my life's work. No female is going to get at those and no self-respecting female would ever try. I would think it unconscionable to even consider attempting to get at their life's work. What we together earn as a partnership and enjoy the fruits thereof are our success and are shared.

"Marital Property

Generally, marital property is everything that either of you earned or acquired during your marriage unless you agree otherwise. So, for example, money you earned at work, put in a joint checking account, and used to pay household bills is marital property. So is the car you bought and made payments on with money from that account.

Separate Property

Separate property belongs only to one spouse. There are some differences in how separate property is defined in different states, but the same general rules apply. The most common forms of separate property are:

property one spouse owned before the marriage

gifts received by one spouse before or during the marriage

property acquired during the marriage in one spouse's name and never used for the benefit of the other spouse or the marriage

inheritances received before or during the marriage

property that the spouses agree in writing is separate, as long as the writing meets your state's standards for that type of agreement (called either a transmutation agreement or a post-nuptial agreement)

property acquired by one spouse using separate property assets with the intention of keeping it separate, and

certain personal injury awards (in general, the portion of the award that repays you for lost earnings is marital property, while any award for pain and suffering is separate)."

OP, given your latest post, you've not got an additional problem; trickle truth.

If you ever hear the word 'misunderstood', my advice is to contact a lawyer immediately.

An additional piece of advice would be to make an appointment, this week, to visit a MC. You can each write a check, at the end of the session, for one half its cost. That's 'sharing' the burden of the situation your wife has apparently thrust upon this young marriage. Do your part. Insist that she do hers. Kill another non-essential expense to pay for it, if necessary. You don't need cable TV or fast food, as examples. Get moving. The marriage you save may be your own.

January 9, 2014

That's a great post Carhill. And considering he is getting the trickle truth over a relatively small sum, I fear it's much worse.

January 9, 2014

I'll give an example of this dynamic, relevant to amount:

A good friend has a wife who likes to gamble. He never cares how much money she spends, rather that she simply tell him how much she spent. 10 bucks or 10 thousand, he doesn't care. Why does he care that she tells him? Because when she wins, the casino reports her winnings to the IRS and, with no recorded offsets and not being told about winnings, they get audited and are assessed interest and penalties. The amount discussed here is nothing to them; it's WAM. It's violating the marital trust of communication which is paramount to address and is the issue of consequence.

The OP appears to be focusing mostly on that aspect, with his loss of savings being a close second. Savings can always be rebuilt, albeit now with marital funds, hence now becoming a marital asset. However, if the communication issues and fundamental issues surrounding finance are not resolved, this could be another young marriage down the tubes.

Oh, last thought OP..... when was your wife's last full physical with blood panels? Sometimes (see above example), medical issues can affect behavior and are resolvable. Given that your wife is a new mother, this crossed my mind. Stuff happens. Cover all the bases. Good luck.

January 9, 2014

However, if the communication issues and fundamental issues surrounding finance are not resolved, this could be another young marriage down the tubes.

Bingo! Well said.

Edited January 9, 2014 by Debanked

January 12, 2014

Sorry I had been away. I have really had severe panic attacks and depression the last couple of days. My wife keeps apologizing saying she is really sorry. She said she didn't know how much was going out. I did check where the money went. It wasn't used for a shopping spree or to buy anything that wouldn't be appropriate. She also said I gave her the password one night after I had taken a sleeping pill. I don't recall that. Even if I did I think she had a duty to let me know. It wasn't one transfer. It was over 30 in the course of two months. I am not sure how we will bounce back from this. Still so confused and hurt

January 12, 2014

I am not sure how we will bounce back from this. Still so confused and hurt

You put it behind you and don't bring it up again, she has apologized.. if you have it in your heart you should sincerely accept her apology and call it done...

Marriage is about give and take and since you have an open dialog over this and she has accepted responsibility and apologized then you give her this one...

Hope it all works out

January 12, 2014

Hopefully you know what the money was spent on and where it went, but for peice of mind you should collect the following:

Bank Statements for your personal account

Bank Statements for the Joint account

Statement for your credit card.

If she has a personal account, get those to. Find out where the money went. If she didnt buy things for herself, where did the money go? To her old bills? To here Family, To someone else, to her own account?

Frankly I am still shocked that in this day in age people havent fully disclosed and insist on what debts their partner has. This isn't light pillow talk, this needs to be lined out, spelled out and a plan made on how your both going to settle these debts while living together, being married and having a child. Otherwise you end up in a situation like OP here.

January 12, 2014

Sorry I had been away. I have really had severe panic attacks and depression the last couple of days. My wife keeps apologizing saying she is really sorry. She said she didn't know how much was going out. I did check where the money went. It wasn't used for a shopping spree or to buy anything that wouldn't be appropriate. She also said I gave her the password one night after I had taken a sleeping pill. I don't recall that. Even if I did I think she had a duty to let me know. It wasn't one transfer. It was over 30 in the course of two months. I am not sure how we will bounce back from this. Still so confused and hurt

So where is the money going? Can you tell? Have you two agreed on where money needs to be spent each month?

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Wife was taking money out of my personal account without knowledge

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