Are affairs blown out of proportion?

[veritas lux mea]

I was wondering if perhaps we blow affairs way out of proportion. It seems to me people compare it to such huge things and it seems like such a first world problem. After all female infidelity where the are viewed as property usually ends in death but only women. The person you married to lied. Everyone lies. There are truly some evil things going on in this world that are beyond anything I have experienced. Maybe we make a bigger deal out of it than we should?

[Eggplant]

After all female infidelity where the are viewed as property usually ends in death but only women.

What is you point here? I don't understand.

[Eggplant]

it seems like such a first world problem.

Sexual jealousy is a trait that is ingrained in our DNA by evolution. Sexual relations determine which genes get propagated, how many offspring we have, and whether we have to share our mate's resources with the offspring of another. People therefore react with extreme emotions and desperation in the face of betrayal, as well as with weakness in the face of temptation.

[Lady2163]

I was wondering if perhaps we blow affairs way out of proportion. It seems to me people compare it to such huge things and it seems like such a first world problem. After all female infidelity where the are viewed as property usually ends in death but only women. The person you married to lied. Everyone lies. There are truly some evil things going on in this world that are beyond anything I have experienced. Maybe we make a bigger deal out of it than we should?

 

It seems to be that this is the end-all and be-all to most relationships.

 

Personally, I wouldn't be opposed to an open marriage or open committed relationship if a couple of conditions were met.

 

1) I am sexually satisfied with my partner (good luck with that, hormones only getting worse with age and desire increasing)

2) Safe sex - many men (not all) do not want sex with a condom after having it without one for so long.

 

Of course, he could lie to me and tell me they used a condom.

 

In the grand scheme of a butterfly causing an earthquake, an affair is nothing. But to the person it happens to, it can mean everything.

[MissBee]

 

In the grand scheme of a butterfly causing an earthquake, an affair is nothing. But to the person it happens to, it can mean everything.

 

Precisely.

 

I don't get the idea that because worst things exist in the world infidelity isn't so bad. Of course with anything, if you compare it to something worse, it's "not that bad", but I don't think there is any point in trying to put people's pain on a scale. What scale should this be and what other events should go on this scale? It's going to be a matter of perspective. All bad things are bad in their own way and affect people differently and can stand alone as bad without being compared to something else or being considered "blown out of proportion" because other bad things have happened. It's like physical pain. I have had several kinds of pain and remember at the time that no other pain before mattered. I didn't need to compare it and couldn't as in that moment that particular pain was all-encompassing and I just wanted it to stop. I can't decide which one was worse, I know they are all bad but have a different feel to them perhaps.; yet, all are valid and all hurt and cannot be quantified neither should they be.

 

I am imagining someone saying to another person "Well why are you crying? Only one of your children died? Children are dying by the hundreds in some places everyday! You're really blowing this out of proportion!" OR "Your husband has been lying to you and having unprotected sex with strange women? So what? Some women's husbands beat them within an inch of their life!"

 

I mean it's ridiculous. It doesn't work like that. There will ALWAYS be worse things and for each bad thing that happens you can feel it, acknowledge it and be hurt by it without that meaning worse things haven't existed or you're blowing it out proportion.

Edited January 9, 2014 by MissBee

[rumbleseat]

I'm sorry, but I find the ideas expressed in the opening post to be quite distorted in and of themselves.

 

If we take that same tack with something besides infidelity, then where are we left? For pretty much every experience, someone will have been through something worse.

 

E.g.- I've volunteered with the breakfast program at my child's school and also at the food bank. There are children who really look forward to that meal, as it may be pretty much the only nutritious food they'll get most days. It's painful, both physically and emotionally for them. Should one say to them " stop complaining and suck it up. It's not the worst thing in the world. There are kids in Africa who go for days with no food at all. You should just learn to go without food, after all, if they can do it, then so can you."

 

 

The OP also implies that fidelity and monogamy are artificial constructs, and that society shouldn't force them on people who don't agree. Yet they expect people who feel differently to agree with their views. Funny that, and quite ironic.

 

Then there's the notion that marriage and monogamy are merely vestiges from when women were viewed as property. Again, it's hard to buy into that theory when a woman who works, makes a high income , can buy anything she wants and has everything that, by most measures, would indicate that she lives a full life and makes her own decisions, will still hurt just as much as anyone else when her spouse has been unfaithful.

 

In my experience, people who try to negate this have never had any person experience with it themselves, or they are ws are om/ow who are trying yo rationalize their own behavior.

[waterwoman]

When my grandmother died I was distraught. Took me years to stop missing her and the gap she left in my life.

When H's grandmother died he was sad but it didn't really impact on his life as he wasn't close and didn't see her often.

 

Did I blow my grief out of proportion? Who's to say? I reacted as it felt natural. As did H.

 

Same with H's affair.

 

If you mean to ask whether monogamy and fidelity are artificially imposed states and as human beings we have outgrown them, I might agree with you. However once you have chosen to accept both in your life, the advantages and restrictions they offer, don't be surprised if your refusal to stick to the rules, you and your spouse signed up to, upsets people, particularly your spouse and is seen as a betrayal.

[Snipercatt]

Maybe we make a bigger deal out of it than we should?

 

I think the answer depends on each individual circumstance. It depends on the nature of the vows and promises made. It depends on the nature and degree of betrayal.

 

If we prosecute for acts of fraud and breaking of contracts, obviously we consider betrayal a big deal, in life.

 

Betraying someone is an indicator of character.

[goodyblue]

I don't think it is blown out of proportion. I think that how someone feels is personal and nobody has the right to tell them that they should not have those feelings.

 

In my case, the BS will never, ever forgive my guy, and you know what? That is okay. She can feel that way if she wants and who am I to question how hurt she was/is? I am not inside her head. The other side of that is that my guy has worked through the issues and has forgiven himself, and isn't in pain any more. Nobody has the right to tell him how long he should feel guilt, or beat himself up over it.

 

Miss Bee said that you cannot compare pain. I believe that to be true to a point, if it hurts, it hurts. But there ARE degrees of pain. You hear people all the time say "I would rather have xxxx happen, than be cheated on". Therein lies the issue, there are degrees, but it is different for each of us. While being cheated on may hurt the OP as well as any who responded to this post, the pain may not be anywhere near the same.

[BetrayedH]

I was wondering if perhaps we blow affairs way out of proportion. It seems to me people compare it to such huge things and it seems like such a first world problem. After all female infidelity where the are viewed as property usually ends in death but only women. The person you married to lied. Everyone lies. There are truly some evil things going on in this world that are beyond anything I have experienced. Maybe we make a bigger deal out of it than we should?

 

I don't consider wasting the years from my twenties to forties to be no big deal. I can't get them back.

[ZMM]

I was wondering if perhaps we blow affairs way out of proportion. It seems to me people compare it to such huge things and it seems like such a first world problem. After all female infidelity where the are viewed as property usually ends in death but only women. The person you married to lied. Everyone lies. There are truly some evil things going on in this world that are beyond anything I have experienced. Maybe we make a bigger deal out of it than we should?

 

 

Plus you are going to get a skewed opinion on a forum that people seek out when they are distressed over these type of issues.

[ComingInHot]

Okay I have to say it. In the grand scheme of such as world hunger, culling of population through genetic altering of foods, war... well, he$$ YES it matter To Me just as much! This is also My Life, our M and our Family.

It affects me just as much.

But that's me*

[Owl]

Plus you are going to get a skewed opinion on a forum that people seek out when they are distressed over these type of issues.

 

Or the skewed opinion of those wanting to minimize the damage that's being done by their actions and choices.

 

The OP appears to hint that we shouldn't be distressed over these types of issues, as you do.

 

The reality is...people are typically emotionally devestated by them.

 

Trying to infer that they shouldn't be so emotionally devestated...when suggested by someone who's been involved as one of the parties that participated in that emotional devestation...suggests to me someone wanting to improve their own self-image by claiming that the other person shouldn't have been so upset. By trying to claim this, they're putting that 'onus' back on the betrayed party, rather than accepting full responsibility and ownership of their actions themselves.

[ComingInHot]

Also, to me, making the world a better place begins at home with a strong self, strong M, strong family, United together and branching out to friends and caring for others where they need it and standing together supporting each other in remaining strong and united.

Affairs do None of this.*

[ZMM]

Or the skewed opinion of those wanting to minimize the damage that's being done by their actions and choices.

 

The OP appears to hint that we shouldn't be distressed over these types of issues, as you do.

 

The reality is...people are typically emotionally devestated by them.

 

Trying to infer that they shouldn't be so emotionally devestated...when suggested by someone who's been involved as one of the parties that participated in that emotional devestation...suggests to me someone wanting to improve their own self-image by claiming that the other person shouldn't have been so upset. By trying to claim this, they're putting that 'onus' back on the betrayed party, rather than accepting full responsibility and ownership of their actions themselves.

 

So, you don't think the opinions on a forum like this may be a bit skewed versus the population as a whole?

 

There are other places you could go where the opinions would be skewed in another direction.

 

And for the record, I've been on both sides of the situation.

[John-Dough]

culling of population through genetic altering of foods

 

I don't really buy into the theory that genetically altered foods are being created to make humans sterile - but I do think the human race has over-populated and is pretty much pushing out all other species on the planet.

 

Regarding OP's post - in the grand scheme, infidelity is probably not as important as we make it. I guess we can't help the way we feel, but ...

Edited January 9, 2014 by John-Dough

[ZMM]

What places are these where feelings would be the opposite? Infidelity violates the social norms of most cultures, and even people who have never cheated or been cheated on tend to think it's a big deal. The only people I've ever heard try to minimize affairs are WS and APs. Go on other forums and see how they respond when infidelity is brought up. The response is overwhelmingly similar to what you see here.

 

I didn't say the opposite and I didn't say internet forums. I think internet forums attract a certain subset of the population.

 

I remember a lot of discussion about infidelity when they were trying to impeach Clinton, saying it was only about sex and that didn't really matter and the fact that he lied was no big deal because anybody would lie about that. You may not agree, but that was what the media had out there and a lot of people obviously agreed.

 

Another point, I would wager there is a significant percentage of the population as a whole that would not classify an EA as an A. They may consider it inappropriate but would feel it had not reached the level of an affair until the physical aspect was present.

Edited January 9, 2014 by ZMM

[rumbleseat]

I didn't say the opposite and I didn't say internet forums. I think internet forums attract a certain subset of the population.

 

I remember a lot of discussion about infidelity when they were trying to impeach Clinton, saying it was only about sex and that didn't really matter and the fact that he lied was no big deal because anybody would lie about that. You may not agree, but that was what the media had out there and a lot of people obviously agreed.

 

Another point, I would wager there is a significant percentage of the population as a whole that would not classify an EA as an A. They may consider it inappropriate but would feel it had not reached the level of an affair until the physical aspect was present.

 

 

I disagree with you, and for every person who you can find that would think an affair is no big deal, I could find ten that would.

 

In my work, I have spoken with men and women coming back after active duty combat in Afghanistan. They have seen thinsg over there that you can not even begin to imagine. Things that will scar them for life.

 

Would you suggest to these people that being cheated on was no big deal?

 

A few of them had spouses who were unfaithful while they were away. One thing I will always remember is how devestated they were, and even after everything they had been through, being cheated was right up there at the top of their list of worst experiences.

 

Perhaps this is why there are official sanctions against in in the military. It's known how much harm it can cause, not only to the marriage but a person's combat readiness. It's also seen as acting dishonorably by an awful lot of people.

 

If it wasn't painful, and it wasn't seen in such a poor light, why would these sanctions exist?

 

As for Clinton, two things to keep in mind:

(a) anyone who believes that mass media represents the true feeling of the population is a fool unto himself

 

(b) even if it is true, the USA is but one country, there are plenty of other "first world" countries where infidelity isn't looked upon as no big deal ( except, of course, to the ones who are benefiting form it in some way, be they ws or om/ow)

[ComingInHot]

SOOoooo, ZMM (and I'm Asking here trying to leave out what my soul BEGS to give through sarcasm, which, right now is REALLY hard for me*); are you saying that media is an accurate representation of how the whole of society "really" feels? And are you saying that, if a man does not perpetrate the vjayjay, it's Not sex, if it's not sex then it's not an A, if it's not an A, the MP is not cheating.?

[ZMM]

I disagree with you, and for every person who you can find that would think an affair is no big deal, I could find ten that would.

 

In my work, I have spoken with men and women coming back after active duty combat in Afghanistan. They have seen thinsg over there that you can not even begin to imagine. Things that will scar them for life.

 

Would you suggest to these people that being cheated on was no big deal?

 

A few of them had spouses who were unfaithful while they were away. One thing I will always remember is how devestated they were, and even after everything they had been through, being cheated was right up there at the top of their list of worst experiences.

 

Perhaps this is why there are official sanctions against in in the military. It's known how much harm it can cause, not only to the marriage but a person's combat readiness. It's also seen as acting dishonorably by an awful lot of people.

 

If it wasn't painful, and it wasn't seen in such a poor light, why would these sanctions exist?

 

As for Clinton, two things to keep in mind:

(a) anyone who believes that mass media represents the true feeling of the population is a fool unto himself

 

(b) even if it is true, the USA is but one country, there are plenty of other "first world" countries where infidelity isn't looked upon as no big deal ( except, of course, to the ones who are benefiting form it in some way, be they ws or om/ow)

 

First, I didn't say having an affair or cheating was no big deal. I said, there are many who feel that way, which I think is true. As far as the media speaking for the people, no I don't think they do. But, that was their line at the time and many people either agreed or bought into it.

 

All I am saying is, there are a lot of different opinions out there on this topic and I agree most would feel that cheating is not a good thing. However, where it ranks on the scale would vary considerably from one person to the next, especially when compared with other problems. I think that was OP's point.

[ZMM]

SOOoooo, ZMM (and I'm Asking here trying to leave out what my soul BEGS to give through sarcasm, which, right now is REALLY hard for me*); are you saying that media is an accurate representation of how the whole of society "really" feels? And are you saying that, if a man does not perpetrate the vjayjay, it's Not sex, if it's not sex then it's not an A, if it's not an A, the MP is not cheating.?

 

No I am not saying that the media is an accurate representation of how the society really feels. I actually think the media is probably one of the biggest, if not the biggest problems we have today and has been for some time. What I was saying is, that was their line and a good number of people either agreed or bought into their spin. And it wasn't like 10%, it was a much higher percentage.

 

And regarding the EA, I do feel that there are a lot of people out there, that have never heard of that term and have no idea what it is. When they think of an affair, it involves sex. I am not commenting on whether this is correct or not, I am just saying what I believe to be true. I know before I went to an online forum, I never heard of the term.

[rumbleseat]

First, I didn't say having an affair or cheating was no big deal. I said, there are many who feel that way, which I think is true. As far as the media speaking for the people, no I don't think they do. But, that was their line at the time and many people either agreed or bought into it.

 

All I am saying is, there are a lot of different opinions out there on this topic and I agree most would feel that cheating is not a good thing. However, where it ranks on the scale would vary considerably from one person to the next, especially when compared with other problems. I think that was OP's point.

 

 

Then you definitely got something else out of it that many of those who responded seem to.

 

They are saying that to them, it most certainly is a big deal.

 

I re-rad the op, and to quote it verbatim:

 

"I was wondering if perhaps we blow affairs way out of proportion. It seems to me people compare it to such huge things and it seems like such a first world problem. After all female infidelity where the are viewed as property usually ends in death but only women. The person you married to lied. Everyone lies. There are truly some evil things going on in this world that are beyond anything I have experienced. Maybe we make a bigger deal out of it than we should? "

 

the op wasn't merely looking to discuss how much affairs hurt ( which is a very personal and subjective thing), but it was more trying to say that yes, they hurt, but we make too big a deal out of it.

 

Maybe the intent wasn't to chastise people for how they feel, but that sure came across, at least to me.

 

How about we try this. If someone places little value on monogamy and fidelity, then fine. More power to them. I would suggest that these people only get involved with people who feel the way they do or, barring that, they are at least honest at the beginning of any relationship. that way, the person can decide whether or not to get involved with them. There are sme people who do that, but not a whole lot.

 

If someone decides that cheating is an acceptable for them to do, then again, be honest and give their spouse the choice of whether to leave or stay. Full honesty, no minimizing the affair. No excuses.

 

How many are willing to do that? Maybe a few, but not too many. To me, that (dishonesty and looking upon it as an acceptable way to lives ones life, so long as it covers their @ss) is far bigger a problem then bs getting hurt or, as some would put it, "overeating" to infidelity.

[ZMM]

Then you definitely got something else out of it that many of those who responded seem to.

 

They are saying that to them, it most certainly is a big deal.

 

I re-rad the op, and to quote it verbatim:

 

"I was wondering if perhaps we blow affairs way out of proportion. It seems to me people compare it to such huge things and it seems like such a first world problem. After all female infidelity where the are viewed as property usually ends in death but only women. The person you married to lied. Everyone lies. There are truly some evil things going on in this world that are beyond anything I have experienced. Maybe we make a bigger deal out of it than we should? "

 

the op wasn't merely looking to discuss how much affairs hurt ( which is a very personal and subjective thing), but it was more trying to say that yes, they hurt, but we make too big a deal out of it.

 

Maybe the intent wasn't to chastise people for how they feel, but that sure came across, at least to me.

 

How about we try this. If someone places little value on monogamy and fidelity, then fine. More power to them. I would suggest that these people only get involved with people who feel the way they do or, barring that, they are at least honest at the beginning of any relationship. that way, the person can decide whether or not to get involved with them. There are sme people who do that, but not a whole lot.

 

If someone decides that cheating is an acceptable for them to do, then again, be honest and give their spouse the choice of whether to leave or stay. Full honesty, no minimizing the affair. No excuses.

 

How many are willing to do that? Maybe a few, but not too many. To me, that (dishonesty and looking upon it as an acceptable way to lives ones life, so long as it covers their @ss) is far bigger a problem then bs getting hurt or, as some would put it, "overeating" to infidelity.

 

Okay, you read it differently than me, I was taking WE as posters to this forum or maybe even society as a whole and where cheating fell on the spectrum of bad things. And when I reread it, I still read it that same way. Sorry, different strokes.

Edited January 9, 2014 by ZMM

[Owl]

I read it to think that the OP meant that "we" as a general, non-descriptive "we" pretty much referring to people in general.

 

So substitute "people" in place of "we"...

 

"I was wondering if perhaps {people} blow affairs way out of proportion. It seems to me people compare it to such huge things and it seems like such a first world problem. After all female infidelity where the are viewed as property usually ends in death but only women. The person you married to lied. Everyone lies. There are truly some evil things going on in this world that are beyond anything I have experienced. Maybe {people} make a bigger deal out of it than we should?"

 

And my viewpoint is that people make a big deal out of it. You can't change that, and it's foolish to think that you can.

 

From my perspective...an AP stating "Maybe we make a bigger deal out of it than we should?" is not referring to themselves in the we. They're referring to those that DID make a bigger deal of it...typically those that are betrayed and emotionally devestated by it, as you infer, ZMM.

 

It's self-serving for an AP to take that viewpoint.

 

I feel it's also self-serving for an AP or MM (or xAP/xMM) to try to convince others that those that are emotionally traumatized are a minority representation, or are somehow a "certain type" of person because they opted to post on an internet forum about their situation.

 

If affairs were no big deal...they'd BE no big deal.

 

Since so many actually are devestated by this kind of betrayal...it would be apparant to most that it is indeed a big deal...and trying to convince yourself that it's not when you've been the one participating in this kind of activity is self serving...a way to dodge the responsibility for the damage you've done to someone with your actions.

 

My thoughts on the subject at least...your mileage may vary.

[veritas lux mea]

I wasn't talking about personal feelings as I fully realize we feel the way we feel. I was meaning we as in society. The attacks and advice given here on this forum for example to me seems so over the top. I was merely musing to myself the other day that if we all had a better grasp of reality then maybe affairs wouldn't blindside people so much. It has been proven by thousands of years of history that people lie. Good people in every other way. That good people have affairs. And yet so many people will say then that person isn't good or OW get demonized and their character judged harshly. Dunno;) just seems to me if we had a more realistic view of marriage and monogamy and the fact that the person you married at twenty may not be the same person ten years, twenty years, forty years later that people would be able to recover better from being betrayed. That people who cheat would maybe even do it less. I just wonder if ideals are what destroy people the most.

 

If you marry someone knowing that they could possibly cheat on you or even have cheated on you based on the overwhelming indication that there is a good chance they will then the reality of it might not be so bad. After all you married a human being not a moral god.

 

The question wasn't really about feelings or even morality. It was more that I wonder if infidelity was not as demonized and everyone took it less personally if in fact we would benefit from not being so devastated by it or if in fact it would decrease.

 

I asked in this forum because I didn't want someone who was freshly betrayed to think I was minimizing their feelings. I know if I ever have a child I would tell them how I cheated and should not have hidden it but been more honest about my sexual needs. And I would tell my child to not marry someone with the expectation that they won't ever stray. Or fall in love with someone else. Because chances are high that they will either cheat themselves or get cheated on. Just think how many people might have been cheated on who never find out. If anyone claims that they have never been cheated on I say, "as far as you know". The only person you know has never cheated is that person you see in the mirror.