Are affairs blown out of proportion?

[veritas lux mea]

What is you point here? I don't understand.

 

It was supposed to stop people from using evolution and infidelity in certain cultures as an example of why it SHOULD BE a big deal. It failed though.

[Owl]

Again...I'm going to point this out from a different viewpoint.

 

Society makes a big deal out of affairs.

 

Therefore, they ARE a big deal.

 

If they weren't so emotionally traumatizing to those betrayed by them...society wouldn't make a big deal about it.

 

It's not that society makes "too big of a deal" about them.

 

It's that they hurt so much that society does make a big deal of them.

 

If you can find a way to remove the hurt...then perhaps you could get society to make 'less of a deal' about them.

 

But here's the thing...the core of an affair is the betrayal that was perpetrated by the person who was closest to you, that was supposed to be the one person you could trust most...that you allowed yourself to trust to that extent.

 

The only way to make it hurt less would be to trust less...to care less.

 

Making that happen negates the value of love, negates the value of relationships.

 

Not gonna happen, and probably a cure worse than the disease.

[Owl]

It was supposed to stop people from using evolution and infidelity in certain cultures as an example of why it SHOULD BE a big deal. It failed though.

 

Give me specific names of cultures that consider infidelity/betrayal/lying to your spouse as acceptable.

 

What "certain cultures" don't fall within the the ones that you cite above?

[veritas lux mea]

I don't consider wasting the years from my twenties to forties to be no big deal. I can't get them back.

 

You have a child right? Is she a waste?

 

No big deal and blowing things out of proportion are not polar opposites. you can make a bigger deal out of something that is a big deal. and really this post was more about how if the view on infidelity shifted the devastation where people are scarred for life might not be as common.

[Snipercatt]

Veri, you are attempting to intellectualize a moral and emotional subject.

 

The intellectual version of infidelity, adultery, and affairs, is that a person has chosen to deceive and betray another. It speaks to the character of the betrayer and matters of character are not small, one-on-one or as a society. The damage to those deceived is for them to quantify, not for their betrayers to quantify.

[ZMM]

I feel it's also self-serving for an AP or MM (or xAP/xMM) to try to convince others that those that are emotionally traumatized are a minority representation, or are somehow a "certain type" of person because they opted to post on an internet forum about their situation.

 

Never did I imply they were a minority representation. I would say on this forum, there is about 90% agreement, just a guess. My point was that people who post on an internet forum about infidelity or affairs were obviously more affected by these type of situations than the population as a whole. This makes the sample skewed, hardly random. I can't see how this could be argued. Even when you look at the population as a whole, the numbers representing those who consider it 'a very big deal' would more than likely still be the majority. However, I would guess there would be a significant variance between the percentages on this forum versus the general population, particularly pertaining to where infidelity falls on the scale of 'bad things'.

[Snipercatt]

You could intellectualize that if we didn't make such a big deal about murder then the victims' families, and loved ones, wouldn't suffer so much.

[Owl]

Never did I imply they were a minority representation. I would say on this forum, there is about 90% agreement, just a guess. My point was that people who post on an internet forum about infidelity or affairs were obviously more affected by these type of situations than the population as a whole. This makes the sample skewed, hardly random. I can't see how this could be argued. Even when you look at the population as a whole, the numbers representing those who consider it 'a very big deal' would more than likely still be the majority. However, I would guess there would be a significant variance between the percentages on this forum versus the general population, particularly pertaining to where infidelity falls on the scale of 'bad things'.

 

You could well be right.

 

Those that have not experienced the emotional devestation and trauma first hand might well rate it lower on that 'scale of bad things'...right up until the moment that they do experience it, when then their perception changes based on new personal experience.

 

So who's perception would paint a more accurate portrait of the "true" representation...those that have experienced it, or those that have not?

 

Where are you more likely to find a more accurate gauge of the damage done by affairs...here on a board where folks come after having been through it, or in the general populace with a much lower percentage of folks who've actually dealt with that damage?

 

If the numbers are skewed...I'd be inclined to believe, based on your own comment above...that they'd be skewed in a more accurate direction.

[veritas lux mea]

Give me specific names of cultures that consider infidelity/betrayal/lying to your spouse as acceptable.

 

What "certain cultures" don't fall within the the ones that you cite above?

 

I have no desire to offend certain groups of people. Go read it up yourself. And the very fact that the majority of polygamous cultures are multiple wives and one man show that on an evolutionary basis monogamy is required of the woman and not the man. Therefore Evolution is not an excuse or a defense against infidelity. Everyone knows that men have been punishing only women for years for infidelity. And let's use the Bible as an example. In cases of adultery both transgressors were to be punished. But in the new testament only the woman was dragged before Jesus. Yet she was "caught in the act". So where was the dude? He broke the law of Moses too.

 

BTW I think it is a good thing that equality is being reached on infidelity being wrong on both sides. My point is that this proves that the woman being viewed as property and the one required to be faithful is more to do with evolution and genetic make up than unfaithfulness in and unto itself.

 

I am not trying to diminish what one feels. After all they married thinking their spouse would remain faithful. They had the current mentality so to speak. I just wonder that if we brought things more in to proportion slowly if the impact of infidelity wouldn't be as severe.

[veritas lux mea]

You could well be right.

 

Those that have not experienced the emotional devestation and trauma first hand might well rate it lower on that 'scale of bad things'...right up until the moment that they do experience it, when then their perception changes based on new personal experience.

 

So who's perception would paint a more accurate portrait of the "true" representation...those that have experienced it, or those that have not?

 

Where are you more likely to find a more accurate gauge of the damage done by affairs...here on a board where folks come after having been through it, or in the general populace with a much lower percentage of folks who've actually dealt with that damage?

 

If the numbers are skewed...I'd be inclined to believe, based on your own comment above...that they'd be skewed in a more accurate direction.

I just want to point out that I know A LOT of people who have been affected by infidelity in real life as well. More than the regular posters on here that is for sure. Maybe not more than have ever come through here but enough to say that almost everyone I know has had infidelity impact them in their life in some way. And that is just the people I know about. After my affair I found out my best friend was cheated on and not one soul but myself, the OW and her and her husband know.

[Owl]

Veritas...here's the thing.

 

The "culture" thing has been brought up here ad nauseum, multiple times...I remember one poster who was here through numerous different incarnations that insisted that 'her culture' supported infidelity, and yet even once someone else revealed her culture, numerous other members of the same culture posted that it most certainly did not support infidelity.

 

There are some small sub-cultures out there that may support polyamory or polygamy.

 

They're very uncommon, typically very small SUB-cultures, and are nearly ever representative of their major parent culture.

 

And at the end of the day...even in those sub-cultures, normally the betrayed still feel the same level of emotional devestation by that betrayal...the difference is, they're not allowed to express it, they're usually forced to accept it quietly, and not allowed to voice it because they're usually the member of the repressed segment of the populace.

 

Hardly an ideal to want to cultivate world-wide, IMHO.

 

Infidelity is a big deal because of what it is. Culture/society views it the way that it does because of what it is...a massive betrayal of trust by someone who should have been trustworthy. The only 'cultures' that support infidelity do so at the expense of the sex that is expected to accept that betrayal silently...and even those are rare, small sub-cultures, not in any way representative of large percentages of the human race.

[Snipercatt]

How do you bring bad character and poor judgement more into proportion and why is that good for society, or individuals?

[Owl]

I just want to point out that I know A LOT of people who have been affected by infidelity in real life as well. More than the regular posters on here that is for sure. Maybe not more than have ever come through here but enough to say that almost everyone I know has had infidelity impact them in their life in some way. And that is just the people I know about. After my affair I found out my best friend was cheated on and not one soul but myself, the OW and her and her husband know.

 

And how many of those friends of yours that were betrayed share your view that it shouldn't have been as big a deal as it was made out to be?

[Snipercatt]

Polygamy and polyamory aren't betrayal. They are agreed to prior to the event.

[ZMM]

Where are you more likely to find a more accurate gauge of the damage done by affairs...here on a board where folks come after having been through it, or in the general populace with a much lower percentage of folks who've actually dealt with that damage?

 

Your point is definitely valid. But, I have to say, I still am not sure of the answer.

 

There could be some insight gained by someone more removed from the situation either by time passing or by not being directly involved. And, you may totally disagree with this one, but also by someone who has been on both sides of the situation.

 

You could argue that the victim of a crime or the family of the victim would decide the punishment. However, we don't do it that way. We have that decided by someone impartial.

[Snipercatt]

Zmm, I would fit your criteria.

[ZMM]

Zmm, I would fit your criteria.

 

As would I.

[Snipercatt]

How many years hence, for you, including the EA?

[Owl]

Your point is definitely valid. But, I have to say, I still am not sure of the answer.

 

There could be some insight gained by someone more removed from the situation either by time passing or by not being directly involved. And, you may totally disagree with this one, but also by someone who has been on both sides of the situation.

 

You could argue that the victim of a crime or the family of the victim would decide the punishment. However, we don't do it that way. We have that decided by someone impartial.

 

We're not talking about punishment here.

 

We're talking about it 'being a big deal', and whether or not it should be considered one.

 

That's a totally different thing.

 

You stated that you felt that LS provided a skewed viewpoint on whether or not it should be considered "a big deal"...I stated why I believe that if it is skewed, it would be more accurate.

 

I don't think that having participated in the betrayal would give you more insight or not as to whether or not it was a big deal vs someone who was "only" on the betrayed side...on the contrary, it gives you more reason to want to view it as less of an issue, in order to better rationalize your own actions.

 

Someone who hasn't participated in that betrayal is less likely to 'gloss over' the pain of the betrayal. They have no vested reason to feel differently.

[ZMM]

I don't think that having participated in the betrayal would give you more insight or not as to whether or not it was a big deal vs someone who was "only" on the betrayed side...on the contrary, it gives you more reason to want to view it as less of an issue, in order to better rationalize your own actions.

 

Someone who hasn't participated in that betrayal is less likely to 'gloss over' the pain of the betrayal. They have no vested reason to feel differently.

 

If you were on the betrayed side first, then you felt 'the pain of betrayal' with no vested interest in minimizing it. Later if you were on the betrayal side, you could see the other side of the equation. I can understand why you would not see this as any advantage to understanding the whole picture. I just happen to disagree.

[veritas lux mea]

Once again Bigger deal and Big deal are not the same.

 

When my best friend told me about her WH affair she told me that she was disappointed in him and told him to end it or leave. She was hurt and sad and thought he was an idiot due to how things had played out with it. He chose her and that was it. My friend told me that she things cheating is stupid and has no desire to do so herself but it was far from devastating. The reason she didn't tell anyone is because she personally feels a lot of people overreact and that it was her business and not theirs. For her, even as a betrayed spouse only, it wasn't described as the worse things that could ever happen or compared to the rape of a child.

 

Another woman I know caught her husband on the OW. She was shocked and very hurt and said it was one of the worst things in her life but she is glad that of all the things that can be the worst for her it was only, and I repeat, only seeing her POS H humping another POS. She divorced him and remarried, had three children and chokes about how it is all thanks to her ex not keeping in his pants and being stupid enough to get caught.

 

I heard through the gossip mill about a woman who set fire to her long term boyfriend's truck with his dog in it. I actually know that the event really happened. The gossip is it was because he was sleeping around. In any case I think she made a bigger deal out of it than maybe she should have.

[ZMM]

How many years hence, for you, including the EA?

 

 

I have been on both sides. For me being the one betrayed, let's just say it was over 20 years ago with two different women.

[Owl]

If you were on the betrayed side first, then you felt 'the pain of betrayal' with no vested interest in minimizing it. Later if you were on the betrayal side, you could see the other side of the equation. I can understand why you would not see this as any advantage to understanding the whole picture. I just happen to disagree.

 

And here's the beauty of this all...we're both completely entitled to do so!

 

We don't have to agree. We just have to be polite and respectful of each other's viewpoint...which I think we've both done, even while disagreeing.

 

I enjoyed the discussion with you.

[ZMM]

woman who set fire to her long term boyfriend's truck with his dog in it.

 

This to me is much much worse than infidelity!!!!!

[Snipercatt]

ZMM, you have posted, recently, that you were still in contact with your MOW on a daily basis, so I'll assume that this recent side of the coin was what you most recently participated in.

 

I mention that because the order within which infidelity occurred, what side of it we were on and how recent, also plays into a persons attitude regarding it.

 

It is human nature to make that which we participated in, most recently, less of a "big deal", or more of a "big deal", depending on how we participated, usually.