Are affairs blown out of proportion?

[veritas lux mea]

Does he agree with your viewpoint on infidelity? Does he feel that he should have expected it, and he's "not that hurt" by the fact you did this?

 

Just minorly hurt that it happened, not majorly upset or angry or hurt?

 

Did he just 'suck it up' and drive on? Does he act like it never happened? Or like he doesn't care that it happened?

 

Did he have an expectation of monogamy as a result of your marriage, or did he realize that you were going to cheat on him in advance? Or did he agree up front that it was ok if you did so?

 

I'd also ask...how emotionally invested in the marriage was he before the affair? Post affair?

 

 

Well for one he doesn't see my cheating as a reflection on him. His pride wasn't hurt. His feelings were and he was disappointed in me. Btw, I found the disappointment really hard to take.

 

Also, thanks to your advice, our sex life, my only complaint has been better.

[Snipercatt]

I doubt many unfaithful spouses know the true angst of their betrayed spouses.

 

A betrayed spouse made vulnerable through infidelity isn't likely to express their true feelings to their betrayer, especially one who thinks it shouldn't be a big deal.

[veritas lux mea]

This just doesn't apply at all, whatsoever.

 

Why because it wasn't a betrayal? I was using it to show that expectations and fantasies very much do play a part in how things go down. Think of the people who leave a marriage for another person only to be disappointed to find spouse number two disappointing.

[Owl]

Well for one he doesn't see my cheating as a reflection on him. His pride wasn't hurt. His feelings were and he was disappointed in me. Btw, I found the disappointment really hard to take.

 

Also, thanks to your advice, our sex life, my only complaint has been better.

 

I'm glad your marriage is doing better. Seriously.

 

My questions were all centered around his expectations of you, and of the marriage, not of what he thought of himself.

 

So was he simply disappointed in you, and nothing else?

 

Does he trust you now? If so...did you do anything to earn the trust back, or is he just accepting that since he's married, its possible (or even likely?) to happen again, and he's ok with that?

[veritas lux mea]

I doubt many unfaithful spouses know the true angst of their betrayed spouses.

 

A betrayed spouse made vulnerable through infidelity isn't likely to express their true feelings to their betrayer, especially one who thinks it shouldn't be a big deal.

 

I never told my husband it wasn't a big deal. In fact I was harder on myself than he was. Honestly, most of this has been forming in my mind as I read some of the stories on here and what I have seen in real life. I see a lot of double standards on both sides of the fence. But people are people and they will think and do what they want.

[Owl]

Why because it wasn't a betrayal? I was using it to show that expectations and fantasies very much do play a part in how things go down. Think of the people who leave a marriage for another person only to be disappointed to find spouse number two disappointing.

 

Right.

 

Look at my analogy of what women should expect in their interactions with men.

 

I never saw a response on that, and yet I feel that's a much closer analogy.

 

Since men are capable of physically dominating a woman, should a woman expect (and accept) that she should be physically dominated by any man she meets, for any reason? After all, it COULD happen. She should just mentally prepare herself to expect it, and accept it, right? And that makes it ok. Especially if everyone around her tells her that this is normal, and all she can expect, right?

 

See the comparison here?

 

You claim that since infidelity CAN happen...MIGHT happen...people should expect it, prepare for it, and accept it as their lot in life.

 

Same thing.

[MissBee]

I think what ZMM means is you have to know your audience. If I go to a gay bar and ask who thinks homosexuality is a sin I am not going to get the same result as going into a conservative church. If I post on a dog forum that cat's are more awesome I will probably not get the same response as I would on a cat forum.

 

This forum is full of people who show pain, bitterness, hatred, and anguish over being hurt. As a rule the ones who ate hit the hardest by infedlity in this day and age turn to google and a place to vent. Or seek counselling. They are only a specific precentage or sampling of those who have been affected by infidelity.

 

My husband was cheated on and has no need to seek a forum. Not his personality. And I bet there are plenty out there just like him.

 

I am not all confused about what he means. What he means still isn't correct.

 

The last part of what you said is what I said: I said LS is simply a subset of people who use internet forums. That is all. People who do not use LS when their spouse cheats or when they're the OW most likely will still have similar views, they are just simply people who do not use online forums. When I was an OW I wasn't on LS, my mom is a BS and she isn't on here or anywhere, my friend is an OW she isn't here either; yet, the views expressed here will be more similar to the general population's views on infidelity.

 

The argument you guys are making has been made before and has never made sense. The argument is that LS represents a skewed or overly negative view of affairs but offline in the wider world people's views are more accepting or they think affairs aren't as big of a deal.

 

I argue that this isn't true actually, as in real life, in the media, books, places where you can get popular opinions and where the population is varied and not just a unique subset of people, the views seem pretty similar to what is on LS and it isn't the eye-popping revelation where the views differ in terms of offline being more tolerant than it is here.

 

The things that are hot button topics in the offline world reflect here and are just as hot when brought here. The part of the logic ZMM is arguing and you're defending is that this is a "unique subset" thus probably anomalous towards how most people think....and that I do not believe.

 

Even look around LS...people who never post in this section, you should see how they talk about OW/OM section. A lot of them think over here is a mad house and have harsh things to say against infidelity and affairs and avoid posting here because it upsets them. Yet, they are not directly invested in it but reflect an opinion that many people in the world have.

 

If you go to a mall in a rural conservative Christian town and one in the heart of NY and poll people on is infidelity wrong or have a questionnaire on it, the views may differ but I would wager that it won't be by a landslide and it depends on the questions you're asking. But point is: most people think betrayal is wrong regardless of religion and culture and what's more important is that regardless of whatever view they have in theory if and when it happens to them...it's painful.

[ZMM]

Right.

 

Look at my analogy of what women should expect in their interactions with men.

 

I never saw a response on that, and yet I feel that's a much closer analogy.

 

Since men are capable of physically dominating a woman, should a woman expect (and accept) that she should be physically dominated by any man she meets, for any reason? After all, it COULD happen. She should just mentally prepare herself to expect it, and accept it, right? And that makes it ok. Especially if everyone around her tells her that this is normal, and all she can expect, right?

 

See the comparison here?

 

You claim that since infidelity CAN happen...MIGHT happen...people should expect it, prepare for it, and accept it as their lot in life.

 

Same thing.

 

Your analogy sounds more like slavery. I think the other is better, because it was a matter of trusting her riding ability or trusting her horse after being thrown off (betrayed).

[Snipercatt]

We keep getting back to the "morality" of it. That isn't what this is about. It was whether or not infidelity is made a BIGGER deal than it really should be in the victim's mind and if they would be better off with a little perpective and a more realistic view of marriage to bring with.

 

Based on this comment, you are applying principles of morality to infidelity. Regardless, whatever principles you apply, you have to account for the ripple affect throughout society. We assume certain principles based on a person's commitments. CHANGE the commitment if you don't intend to adhere to it, and prior to betraying it, then you can expect your spouse to have a more realistic view of YOUR marriage.

 

Easy-peasy.

[veritas lux mea]

I'm glad your marriage is doing better. Seriously.

 

My questions were all centered around his expectations of you, and of the marriage, not of what he thought of himself.

 

So was he simply disappointed in you, and nothing else?

 

Does he trust you now? If so...did you do anything to earn the trust back, or is he just accepting that since he's married, its possible (or even likely?) to happen again, and he's ok with that?

 

He told me it is over if I do it again. This was my "get out of jail free" card. I honestly do tell him everything, eventually. Like cheating so he knows I'd let the cat out of the bag if I tried to sneak around again. None of my things have ever been hidden or locked down on him as it is. I even talk to him about this forum. He doesn't really have an opinion on affairs in the grand scheme of things but he says for him, it wasn't something that destroyed him and he was surprised.

 

I was cheated on as a teenager, btw. I was destroyed and thought my boyfriend was the scum of the earth. Struggled with eating for a bit. As I grew up I realized I jad given my boyfriend power over me he shouldn't have had. I don't confess i've been cheated on because I was an immature teenager in a two year teenage dating scene. Not someone who has been married for years. What happened to me? I blew it out of proportion.

[Owl]

Your analogy sounds more like slavery. I think the other is better, because it was a matter of trusting her riding ability or trusting her horse after being thrown off (betrayed).

 

I'm talking about what we're supposed to expect, and accept, in our interactions with others.

 

The idea that someone should just accept being cheated on as a lesser issue because it was possible when they started the relationship is ludicrous to me.

 

And very comparable to my analogy...

 

Someone should just accept being betrayed by someone that promised not to....because it was possible that it could happen.

 

Then with the same logic...every victim everywhere should just 'get over it' and accept that what happened to them was a possibility that they should have thought of, and one that they accepted and agreed to when they first started breathing.

[ZMM]

What he means still isn't correct.

 

According to you. But the question was never about whether infidelity was good or bad. It was the degree that people are destroyed by it or where they rate it on a scale of good versus evil. It seemed clear in her original post, but she later went on to clarify it.

 

Yes, people who seek out a forum to post about infidelity are more likely to have a stronger opinion than those who don't. For one, because they were recently affected by it and for another because they are taking the action to post on this forum. They wouldn't do it if they weren't upset. There is nothing wrong with that, but it is a fact.

[Owl]

He told me it is over if I do it again. This was my "get out of jail free" card. I honestly do tell him everything, eventually. Like cheating so he knows I'd let the cat out of the bag if I tried to sneak around again. None of my things have ever been hidden or locked down on him as it is. I even talk to him about this forum. He doesn't really have an opinion on affairs in the grand scheme of things but he says for him, it wasn't something that destroyed him and he was surprised.

 

I was cheated on as a teenager, btw. I was destroyed and thought my boyfriend was the scum of the earth. Struggled with eating for a bit. As I grew up I realized I jad given my boyfriend power over me he shouldn't have had. I don't confess i've been cheated on because I was an immature teenager in a two year teenage dating scene. Not someone who has been married for years. What happened to me? I blew it out of proportion.

 

No. You blamed yourself for being trusting, and now use that same misplaced blame to rationalize that others who have trusted were at fault.

 

It wasn't your mistake for trusting. It was his for violating your trust.

 

It's your mistake for accepting that blame. And you continue on with that mistake when you misplace that blame for others, and set the same (misplaced) standard for them as well.

[Owl]

He told me it is over if I do it again. This was my "get out of jail free" card. I honestly do tell him everything, eventually. Like cheating so he knows I'd let the cat out of the bag if I tried to sneak around again. None of my things have ever been hidden or locked down on him as it is. I even talk to him about this forum. He doesn't really have an opinion on affairs in the grand scheme of things but he says for him, it wasn't something that destroyed him and he was surprised.

 

I was cheated on as a teenager, btw. I was destroyed and thought my boyfriend was the scum of the earth. Struggled with eating for a bit. As I grew up I realized I jad given my boyfriend power over me he shouldn't have had. I don't confess i've been cheated on because I was an immature teenager in a two year teenage dating scene. Not someone who has been married for years. What happened to me? I blew it out of proportion.

 

Does he agree with you that he shouldn't feel "as bad" by what happened because he set himself up for this to happen when he married you?

[Snipercatt]

I blew it out of proportion.

 

Maybe. Maybe being betrayed is what governs you "not suh a big deal" attitude, today. My girlfriends sister, who she loved dearly, was killed in an accident when she was 21. Then, and now, she says she'll never love anyone that much again because of the pain suffered if they are taken from you. Did she, like you, blow it out of proportion and thus adapt an insular attitude regarding it? Is the world out of step, or are you?

[veritas lux mea]

I'm talking about what we're supposed to expect, and accept, in our interactions with others.

 

The idea that someone should just accept being cheated on as a lesser issue because it was possible when they started the relationship is ludicrous to me.

 

And very comparable to my analogy...

 

Someone should just accept being betrayed by someone that promised not to....because it was possible that it could happen.

 

Then with the same logic...every victim everywhere should just 'get over it' and accept that what happened to them was a possibility that they should have thought of, and one that they accepted and agreed to when they first started breathing.

Accepting something and saying it are okay is not always the same. If a person is betrayed and wants to end the marriage then so be it. But the extent the person is crushed and how much their life is destroyed I think could be in direct relation to an unrealistic polyannish view of relationship. And being a victim of a marriage you chose to enter with a fallable human is different than being raped in your own home. This isn't about fear. It is about realizing you can't control your spouse or their actions and they may very well cheat on you. And would having thay mentality help in recovering from

Being cheated on? Or would it even help discover affairs?

[Snipercatt]

For one, because they were recently affected by it and for another because they are taking the action to post on this forum. They wouldn't do it if they weren't upset. There is nothing wrong with that, but it is a fact.

 

ZMM, it isn't a fact, it is your supposition.

[ZMM]

ZMM, it isn't a fact, it is your supposition.

 

I guess they just post on here for the fun of it. I probably wouldn't have posted 'it's a fact', had not MissBee's post taken that approach.

[veritas lux mea]

Does he agree with you that he shouldn't feel "as bad" by what happened because he set himself up for this to happen when he married you?

 

He said he took a risk falling in love and it has been worth it because our happytimes have outweighed the bad. He also said that it would be the same risk with any future gal. He'd rather the devil you know.

[MissBee]

According to you. But the question was never about whether infidelity was good or bad. It was the degree that people are destroyed by it or where they rate it on a scale of good versus evil. It seemed clear in her original post, but she later went on to clarify it.

 

Yes, people who seek out a forum to post about infidelity are more likely to have a stronger opinion than those who don't. For one, because they were recently affected by it and for another because they are taking the action to post on this forum. They wouldn't do it if they weren't upset. There is nothing wrong with that, but it is a fact.

 

????

 

ZMM,

 

People who seek out forums when they are hurt are people who see online forums as a useful place for them to deal with their hurt. That part is true. However, people who do not seek forums may not be any less hurt, they simply do not use online forums!

 

That is the part of your logic that doesn't make sense or that you're not seeing clearly. You're arguing that if someone isn't on a forum it says something about their degree of hurt. It doesn't. You can't know that. What it does say is that they do not use online forums for whatever reason.

 

How many people in the world over do you think use online forums for ANY reason? Whether to discuss relationships, hobbies etc? I do not think using forums is something most of the population does. Even among my friends, sometimes they tease about why I'm always posting on this forum. They don't really know what it is and most of them don't really post on an online forum. Yet they still experience break ups, marriages and all the other topics here. They simply do not use forums. There hurt from their breakup or their affair is no less just because for them they don't post online about it. Posting your problems online isn't at all something everyone worldwide does.

 

So forum use cannot be equated to degree of hurt. It can only be discussed within "Degree of Hurt Among people who use internet forums." If a researcher was studying this that would be how they would have to categorize it. They would be laughed out of town if they tried to assert that people in the world who do not use online forums are simply not that hurt...that is illogical.

[Snipercatt]

is about realizing you can't control your spouse or their actions and they may very well cheat on yo

 

People of average intelligence "know" this. It doesn't seem to change that we believe people, until proven wrong, to be fair regarding their promises and to renegotiate them if they choose to break them. That's what emotionally mature people do.

[veritas lux mea]

Maybe. Maybe being betrayed is what governs you "not suh a big deal" attitude, today. My girlfriends sister, who she loved dearly, was killed in an accident when she was 21. Then, and now, she says she'll never love anyone that much again because of the pain suffered if they are taken from you. Did she, like you, blow it out of proportion and thus adapt an insular attitude regarding it? Is the world out of step, or are you?

 

That is an interesting angle for sure. But I was fairly young. 16. I have had several relationships since with no cheating or trust issues.

[veritas lux mea]

People of average intelligence "know" this. It doesn't seem to change that we believe people, until proven wrong, to be fair regarding their promises and to renegotiate them if they choose to break them. That's what emotionally mature people do.

 

I am not always a fan of statistics and such but I would have to say by looking around and just the people I know. A lot of peope cheat. Therefore the chance of being cheated on or being the cheater is quite high. And this is just the people I know. Therefore i was tossing around the idea that maybe realizing people change their morals and desires and dreams and also act out of charcter or have hidden faults or what have you then infidelity is really more of a norm than society wants to admit? I can say I know far more cheaters than murderers. Okay I personally don't know any murderers. And I really am not trying to say it is "right" but rather is our denial of it ever happening to us a part of why some people compare it to murder and rape?

[BetrayedH]

Ah, if only we weren't so naive, then we wouldn't be so bitter.

[Snipercatt]

I have had several relationships since with no cheating or trust issues.

 

Considering your recent history do you see the irony?

 

As to "get out of jail free cards"; Veri, over time your husband may find it more of a struggle to remain faithful, even if only in his mind. You should know that happens a great many times. "Get out of jail free" isn't free.