ZMM Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Miss Bee One thing you CAN say is a that a very high percentage of those who come to an internet forum to discuss infidelity are hurt as you put it. As to the general population, it would have to be much lesser as some of those people aren't currently or never have had to deal with it. Not everyone has an infidelity issue. Some people probably never even think about it. So, to say that the posters on this forum are a representative sample of the general population, quite frankly doesn't hold water. Link to post Share on other sites
MissBee Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Tried to edit to add (ZMM): Affairs have existed before the internet. So the logic further makes no sense that just because people don't post online that says something about the degree of hurt. Further: you are assuming all people's internet usage habits are the same. It isn't. As I said: forum users are forum users and are a subset of the population who find using forums useful. But lots of other people do not post on forums. Some only use the internet for work, don't like using the internet, don't trust posting their business online, don't have the time to type on here etc. Why someone doesn't post on a forum is for lots of reasons but it is absolutely illogical to believe that people's level of being affected by relationship hurt can be decided by if they post on LS or any other forum. You can only make conclusions that the people here who do post post because it bothers them and because they are people who find posting on forums useful, so post here. People who post here also tend to be people who have posted on other forums before or are on multiple forums, as that platform appeals to them. While for other people that isn't on their radar and they handle their hurt in a different way than putting it on the internet and don't post on online forums period or at least not relationship ones. So my point still stands. LS views on infidelity seems to reflect the larger population's views and the only unique aspect here is that LS users are people who find forums a useful platform versus people who do notuse online forums. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
ladydesigner Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Trying to infer that they shouldn't be so emotionally devestated...when suggested by someone who's been involved as one of the parties that participated in that emotional devestation...suggests to me someone wanting to improve their own self-image by claiming that the other person shouldn't have been so upset. By trying to claim this, they're putting that 'onus' back on the betrayed party, rather than accepting full responsibility and ownership of their actions themselves. B-I-N-G-O! Owl you rock Link to post Share on other sites
Author veritas lux mea Posted January 9, 2014 Author Share Posted January 9, 2014 Considering your recent history do you see the irony? As to "get out of jail free cards"; Veri, over time your husband may find it more of a struggle to remain faithful, even if only in his mind. You should know that happens a great many times. "Get out of jail free" isn't free. If my husband cheats I am and have been prepared for that. Before I decided my descision what to do would be based on the details of the affair. Now that I wrung that bell I deserve it. He most definetly gets a free pass from me. Link to post Share on other sites
Snipercatt Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Veri, why do you think infidelity seems to be more prevalent? Link to post Share on other sites
ladydesigner Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Sure there are worse things that can happen to a person, some of them have already happened to me. I have been molested, gang raped, and almost beaten to death by an ex boyfriend. My WH's infidelity crippled me. I almost took my own life. That is how serious it can be for some people. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
ZMM Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 So my point still stands. LS views on infidelity seems to reflect the larger population's views and the only unique aspect here is that LS users are people who find forums a useful platform versus people who do notuse online forums. And I stand by my point that close to 100% of the posters on this forum are currently affected by infidelity in one manner or another. And of those, the vast majority are seriously affected by it or they wouldn't bother to post here. The same can not be said for the general public. Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 He said he took a risk falling in love and it has been worth it because our happytimes have outweighed the bad. He also said that it would be the same risk with any future gal. He'd rather the devil you know. Same mindset I have, post affair. But I don't feel that I, or anyone else, should feel any less than I felt because it was in any way my fault, or my risk, for having married in the first place. I, like your H, don't feel that my wife's choice to engage in an EA is in any way a reflection on me. But I also don't view it as in any way something I should accept, or that I should have felt less devestated by because I took that risk of engaging in a relationship with her. And realize...I'm not a trusting fellow. I just cannot agree with your mindset that somehow people should feel less bad about their spouse's choice to have an affair because they took that risk when they opted to have a relationship with them. To me...it's very much like your 'rape' analogy. You're saying it's the victim's fault, and that they shouldn't feel bad (or as bad, whatever that might mean here) because it was a possiblilty to begin with. So any woman on a date takes the risk of being raped...and shouldn't feel so bad if it happens, because she took that risk??? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 And I stand by my point that close to 100% of the posters on this forum are currently affected by infidelity in one manner or another. And of those, the vast majority are seriously affected by it or they wouldn't bother to post here. The same can not be said for the general public. I disagree. My wife's EA was nearly 10 years ago. Our marriage is very happily recovered. I've stuck around because I enjoy giving advice, and like the idea that much of the advice I've given appears to have helped a good number of posters here...to include the OP, apparantly. And there are many other posters here who have stuck around for the same reasons. I think your opinion on the posters here is skewed by your own viewpoint...no offense intended. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Author veritas lux mea Posted January 9, 2014 Author Share Posted January 9, 2014 Veri, why do you think infidelity seems to be more prevalent? Media, the internet, more laws protecting women from their husband's shooting them. Or even husband's being shot. Infedlity has been around since committed relationships were started. History is full of it. I don't think it is getting worse I just think it is more obvious because of networking. The world is smaller. My friend had 12 uncles and aunts. All over 70 and for those that passed away all but one died young. that we know of 3 were not cheated on/cheater/ap themselves. And one of those is the person who died in WWII before getting married. My friend's own grandmother was an OW who married her AP an remained with him for the rest of their life. And this went down in the late 40s. Link to post Share on other sites
Snipercatt Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 stand by my point that close to 100% of the posters on this forum are currently affected by infidelity in one manner or another. And of those, the vast majority are seriously affected by it or they wouldn't bother to post here. ZMM, I disagree with you. Many posters haven't been affected by infidelity, recently. You have to read the stories to know. As to the seriousness of the affect, you may be closer to the truth there. Maybe. Veri, you aren't giving your husband a free pass if you have some measuring stick of seriousness of anticipated infidelity/adultery. Link to post Share on other sites
ZMM Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 To me...it's very much like your 'rape' analogy. You're saying it's the victim's fault, and that they shouldn't feel bad (or as bad, whatever that might mean here) because it was a possiblilty to begin with. So any woman on a date takes the risk of being raped...and shouldn't feel so bad if it happens, because she took that risk??? That would be true if you married a rapist. I think her point is that it is not uncommon for humans to cheat in relationships. So, it is not beyond the realm of possibilities that it could happen in any relationship and you should be aware of that going in. Don't dwell on it, but don't let it destroy you if your partner falters. I don't know for sure that is what she is saying, but that is kind of what I gather from her posts. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author veritas lux mea Posted January 9, 2014 Author Share Posted January 9, 2014 ZMM, I disagree with you. Many posters haven't been affected by infidelity, recently. You have to read the stories to know. As to the seriousness of the affect, you may be closer to the truth there. Maybe. Veri, you aren't giving your husband a free pass if you have some measuring stick of seriousness of anticipated infidelity/adultery. No that was my mindset before. Whether or not if he cheated I would forgive him or not. I decided that would depend on his actions and the details and how I felt at the time. Now that I have cheated I really don't need to think about that. If he cheats and still wants to be with me it doesn't matter with whom or how long. I cheated first so I started it. Link to post Share on other sites
ZMM Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 ZMM, I disagree with you. Many posters haven't been affected by infidelity, recently. You have to read the stories to know. But, recently is a relative term, to one person recent could be 5 years to another, 6 months. It takes different people longer to get over things than others. Link to post Share on other sites
ladydesigner Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 That would be true if you married a rapist. I think her point is that it is not uncommon for humans to cheat in relationships. So, it is not beyond the realm of possibilities that it could happen in any relationship and you should be aware of that going in. Don't dwell on it, but don't let it destroy you if your partner falters. I don't know for sure that is what she is saying, but that is kind of what I gather from her posts. Well I think regardless of human nature and why we cheat, it hurts to be lied to and betrayed. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author veritas lux mea Posted January 9, 2014 Author Share Posted January 9, 2014 That would be true if you married a rapist. I think her point is that it is not uncommon for humans to cheat in relationships. So, it is not beyond the realm of possibilities that it could happen in any relationship and you should be aware of that going in. Don't dwell on it, but don't let it destroy you if your partner falters. I don't know for sure that is what she is saying, but that is kind of what I gather from her posts. Bingo! And I really guess it is who I am. Hope for the best but prepare for the worst kind of person. I have had three miscarriages so far. I have a medical problem that makes carrying a fetus pass the first trimester unlikely. But each pregnancy I took care of myself and hoped for a full term healthy baby. And yes it was hard when each time I lost the baby at the beginning of the second trimester. But, I knew my odds and was prepared for it best that I could be. I think for me that really made it "easier" than a miscarriage is for some. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Snipercatt Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Veri, you're not being consistent. On one hand you say your attitude regarding your husband's infidelity was always the same. then it depended on the details, and now as long as he wants to remain with you it is passed over. What happens if he continues and wants to remain with you? Link to post Share on other sites
Snipercatt Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Bingo! And I really guess it is who I am. Hope for the best but prepare for the worst kind of person. e I think that's most people. Link to post Share on other sites
Author veritas lux mea Posted January 9, 2014 Author Share Posted January 9, 2014 Veri, you're not being consistent. On one hand you say your attitude regarding your husband's infidelity was always the same. then it depended on the details, and now as long as he wants to remain with you it is passed over. What happens if he continues and wants to remain with you? I am not sure what you are confusing this point. Before I cheated I felt one way. Since cheating I feel another because I cheated. I don't feel I have two feet to stand on regarding him cheating anymore? Anyone else confused by what I am saying? Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 That would be true if you married a rapist. I think her point is that it is not uncommon for humans to cheat in relationships. So, it is not beyond the realm of possibilities that it could happen in any relationship and you should be aware of that going in. Don't dwell on it, but don't let it destroy you if your partner falters. I don't know for sure that is what she is saying, but that is kind of what I gather from her posts. Well...I agree that a BS should take whatever measures that they need to help themselves deal with it, work through it, and get over it. But...having been there myself, I know that it can take quite a bit of time, with a lot of hard work. Just time won't do it, and you can work as hard as you want but won't 'get over it' anytime quickly or easily. And realistically, I don't think that there's any foundation in the mindset that people should just change their expectations for marriage/relationships and expect it to happen...so that they're not hurt when it does. Even people that enter into "open relationships" are often devestated/destroyed when their partner in that open relationship changes the rules and decides to have a monogamous relationship with their new found 'love'. People are people. When someone betrays your trust...you're going to be hurt. And the depth of that hurt is nearly always directly proportional to the amount of emotional investment you've had in that relationship. Those that aren't that hurt...aren't that emotionally invested. Link to post Share on other sites
Snipercatt Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 It's your punctuation that created the misunderstanding. So before you would forgive him based on the details, now you forgive him if he wants to stay with you, regardless of the details, correct? Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Well...I agree that a BS should take whatever measures that they need to help themselves deal with it, work through it, and get over it. But...having been there myself, I know that it can take quite a bit of time, with a lot of hard work. Just time won't do it, and you can work as hard as you want but won't 'get over it' anytime quickly or easily. And realistically, I don't think that there's any foundation in the mindset that people should just change their expectations for marriage/relationships and expect it to happen...so that they're not hurt when it does. Even people that enter into "open relationships" are often devestated/destroyed when their partner in that open relationship changes the rules and decides to have a monogamous relationship with their new found 'love'. People are people. When someone betrays your trust...you're going to be hurt. And the depth of that hurt is nearly always directly proportional to the amount of emotional investment you've had in that relationship. Those that aren't that hurt...aren't that emotionally invested. Wanted to add: I'd say if you expect to be betrayed so that you suffer less pain from it when it happens...you'll be less emotionally invested in the relationship, and potentially setting the stage FOR it to happen as a result. Not how I want to be married. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author veritas lux mea Posted January 9, 2014 Author Share Posted January 9, 2014 It's your punctuation that created the misunderstanding. So before you would forgive him based on the details, now you forgive him if he wants to stay with you, regardless of the details, correct? Sorry 'bout that. Exactly. Link to post Share on other sites
Author veritas lux mea Posted January 9, 2014 Author Share Posted January 9, 2014 Wanted to add: I'd say if you expect to be betrayed so that you suffer less pain from it when it happens...you'll be less emotionally invested in the relationship, and potentially setting the stage FOR it to happen as a result. Not how I want to be married. That is a very good point. But I would say it is unfair to say that a person's reaction to an affair is based on how invested they are. Maybe that is true sometimes but I think personality plays a part as well as unrealistic expectations of what marriage is. Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 That is a very good point. But I would say it is unfair to say that a person's reaction to an affair is based on how invested they are. Maybe that is true sometimes but I think personality plays a part as well as unrealistic expectations of what marriage is. LOL...a marriage is exactly what the couple that are in it define it to be. An affair occurs when one partner in that marriage UNILATERALLY changes that definition without communicating those changes to their partner, without consulting their partner, nor with any intention of doing so. AND THAT is the source of the pain. If you truly feel that the people need to create a different definition of marriage so that they don't hurt so bad because their spouse opted to lie/cheat/betray them...you're setting an unobtainable goal, and still putting the blame back on the BS for being hurt, when the blame still clearly resides with the person who unilaterally opted to change the rules without honoring their agreemant with their partner. NON SEQUITER 2 Link to post Share on other sites
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