Are affairs blown out of proportion?

[ZMM]

ZMM, you have posted, recently, that you were still in contact with your MOW on a daily basis, so I'll assume that this recent side of the coin was what you most recently participated in.

 

I mention that because the order within which infidelity occurred, what side of it we were on and how recent, also plays into a persons attitude regarding it.

 

It is human nature to make that which we participated in, most recently, less of a "big deal", or more of a "big deal", depending on how we participated, usually.

 

Touche!

[Snipercatt]

heard through the gossip mill about a woman who set fire to her long term boyfriend's truck with his dog in it.

 

But, did she know the dog was in the truck? Just trying to decide how "big of a deal" it was, is all.

[veritas lux mea]

ZMM, you have posted, recently, that you were still in contact with your MOW on a daily basis, so I'll assume that this recent side of the coin was what you most recently participated in.

 

I mention that because the order within which infidelity occurred, what side of it we were on and how recent, also plays into a persons attitude regarding it.

 

It is human nature to make that which we participated in, most recently, less of a "big deal", or more of a "big deal", depending on how we participated, usually.

 

That goes both ways. Someone who is recently betrayed will of course maybe make it a "bigger deal" than it is and take it "harder" than maybe is good for them.

 

Thank you everyone for your debate. I do enjoy the discourse and I hope it doesn't really upset anyone. I wasn't trying to call in to question the morality of infidelity or making it okay. But rather the fact that perhaps half the battle people have in healing is blowing the affair out way out of proportion on the grand scheme of things. Not to say not being hurt or angry but how utterly destroyed the people who come here are to the point of suicide at times. Or how AP are demonized.

[veritas lux mea]

But, did she know the dog was in the truck? Just trying to decide how "big of a deal" it was, is all.

 

She tried to say she didn't but there was evidence that she did by text messages where a friend said "Be sure to let his dog out." He traveled everywhere with his dog and she set the truck on fire while he was in a store. It was really big news around yes, she did get charged and it went on public record. People might have been okay with the shiny truck burning but nobody thought much of her torching the pooch.

[Snipercatt]

[That goes both ways. Someone who is recently betrayed will of course maybe make it a "bigger deal" than it is and take it "harder" than maybe is good for them./QUOTE]

 

That is exactly what the below means.

 

It is human nature to make that which we participated in, most recently, less of a "big deal", or more of a "big deal", depending on how we participated, usually.

[veritas lux mea]

This to me is much much worse than infidelity!!!!!

 

I agree it is really my biggest point. I just simply don't think "cheaters" or "AP" are equal with animal abusers, rapists, Child predators, serial killers, and the list goes on. Now, If someone is cheating on his wife with another married person, abusing his children and kicking his dog... I'd say no moral fibre.

[veritas lux mea]

[That goes both ways. Someone who is recently betrayed will of course maybe make it a "bigger deal" than it is and take it "harder" than maybe is good for them./QUOTE]

 

That is exactly what the below means.

 

And a big factor in why I think perhaps people take it too hard. Entirely for themselves of course and their healing. Really, who cares about how they take it and the impact that has on the one who cheated. They cheated after all. I just think the "victim" would be better off if they hadn't let their ideals set them up in the first place.

[Owl]

 

And a big factor in why I think perhaps people take it too hard. Entirely for themselves of course and their healing. Really, who cares about how they take it and the impact that has on the one who cheated. They cheated after all. I just think the "victim" would be better off if they hadn't let their ideals set them up in the first place.

 

Again, I just struggle with understanding why YOU feel that you personally have enough experience to feel that people "take it too hard"?

 

You haven't been betrayed in this fashion (unless of course I'm mistaken)...on the contrary, you've participated in doing so.

 

Can you see how your viewpoint could be easily seen as self-serving here?

 

The "victim" reacts the way that they do based on the pain of the betrayal they were involuntarily forced to deal with.

 

You think that they should have just expected to be cheated on, so they wouldn't have hurt so much.

 

Well hell...I should expect to get punched in the nuts tonight, so that shouldn't hurt as much either, right?

 

Sure...if no one got married, no one would be cheated on, right? If everyone would just all simultaneously agree to stop agreeing to monogamous relationships, we'd all be happy, right?

 

The BS was just a fool for having thought that they could trust a spouse to begin with, clearly

 

Your expectation is unrealistic at best.

[Snipercatt]

I think that when a person decides they no longer choose to obligate their promises they should inform the person to whom they made the promise, prior to being deceitful.

I just think the "victim" would be better off if they hadn't let their ideals set them up in the first place

 

If we are to live in such a fashion then we should believe no one and not trust those that have made commitments to us, period. It isn't just about ideals, it is about a person's character. One can inform another they intend to break an agreement rather than deceive a person. The betrayer has other choices.

[MissBee]

When my grandmother died I was distraught. Took me years to stop missing her and the gap she left in my life.

When H's grandmother died he was sad but it didn't really impact on his life as he wasn't close and didn't see her often.

 

Did I blow my grief out of proportion? Who's to say? I reacted as it felt natural. As did H.

 

Same with H's affair.

 

If you mean to ask whether monogamy and fidelity are artificially imposed states and as human beings we have outgrown them, I might agree with you. However once you have chosen to accept both in your life, the advantages and restrictions they offer, don't be surprised if your refusal to stick to the rules, you and your spouse signed up to, upsets people, particularly your spouse and is seen as a betrayal.

 

The thing is: even if marriage and monogamy are out of style...I think betrayal and the hurt it causes when anyone betrays you in any context is never out of fashion.

 

That's the point. The marriage and monogamy conversation is moot.

 

No one goes crying over their marriage license when betrayed and it's not only married people who get cheated on and hurt by it, people who are in committed relationships where there is no marriage involve and monogamy and exclusivity was the deal also get hurt by that person going behind their back and lying.

 

The curious part of it I always wonder if those who feel that way, do they practice what they preach? If they make a life with someone, they trust them, they believe they love them and don't lie to them and then they found out actually your spouse has been doing XYZ behind your back for months/years...will they too simply brush it off and say "Oh well...it happens" and that's all? If so, well, that's great! But I wager majority of these people would be just as upset as anyone else.

[Owl]

I know my analogy isn't a great one, but I can still a LOT of similarities.

 

With the same logic, I could say that most women are inherently weaker than most men, and men tend to be able to dominate them both physically and emotionally. Given that, women should just expect to be forced to do whatever a man wants, whenever a man wants. As long as she expects that this is her lot in life, it won't hurt her as much, right? And that makes it all ok, especially if society tells her that she should just silently accept it, right?

 

How is that in any way different than what you've suggested, Veritas?

[yellowmaverick]

I was wondering if perhaps we blow affairs way out of proportion. It seems to me people compare it to such huge things and it seems like such a first world problem. After all female infidelity where the are viewed as property usually ends in death but only women. The person you married to lied. Everyone lies. There are truly some evil things going on in this world that are beyond anything I have experienced. Maybe we make a bigger deal out of it than we should?

 

I find it ironic that the OW/OM - most of whom have have no real commitment, no real relationship, and no real future with the AP - have spent so much time, effort and energy arguing how BSs spend too much time, energy, and effort on the fact that they were betrayed by their REAL long-term spouses with whom they had entered into REAL commitments with.

 

Pot...kettle??

[MissBee]

So, you don't think the opinions on a forum like this may be a bit skewed versus the population as a whole?

 

There are other places you could go where the opinions would be skewed in another direction.

 

And for the record, I've been on both sides of the situation.

 

Ahhh ZMM...you're telling me, you believe that if you went to the mall and asked people if infidelity is a devastating thing for them or was a terrible thing for them, the answers would be more along the lines of "No, it's not that big a deal?"

 

I would be willing to bet that wouldn't be the case.

 

Infidelity, abortion etc are all hot button topics for the general population. If you're not from Mars you can guess at that off the bat even if you know nothing else.

 

As I have always said, the answers here are only skewed to people who use internet forums, but the opinions expressed about this topic mimic how people think in general life.

[Snipercatt]

A betrayed person's reaction to being betrayed is the reaction after the deed of the betrayer.

 

Being deceitful and/or betraying someone speaks to our personal character. We have many more honorable choices.

[rumbleseat]

To those who think society makes too much fuss over infidelity, I will share the following example.

 

 

My oldest child has a mental illness, and was hospitalized for several weeks. My husband and I attended a support group for parents, and there were several there who's child developed a mental illness, due, in part to their parent's infidelity.

 

The parents had tried to minimize the effect of the affair, but the kids invariably found out ( one through reading emails from the ow that dad had accidentally left open on the computer). This person described his son as " shattered".

 

Those who see infidelity as merely someone overreacting because society tells them they should has , to my way of thinking, no real understanding of the depth of the betrayal or why it hurts so much. It's breaking a trust, and I'm sorry, but it's not the same as having a boyfriend/ girlfriend cheat on you.

 

My personal belief is that it is good for people to talk about how much it hurt them, as perhaps if more people let their pain put instead of feeling that they need to push it down or hide it, then maybe more will understand how.ainful it is and think twice.

 

As for what it says about so eone's morals and personal values, in what another situation would lying, deceit and knowingly hurting someone be considered okay? In what situation (except maybe a politician, CEO or a used car salesman ) would these values not indicate something about a person's personality?

[BetrayedH]

You have a child right? Is she a waste?

 

No big deal and blowing things out of proportion are not polar opposites. you can make a bigger deal out of something that is a big deal. and really this post was more about how if the view on infidelity shifted the devastation where people are scarred for life might not be as common.

 

I have two children. They are beautiful and of course, not a waste. However, the agreement between my wife and I was that we would raise them in a nuclear family, not devastated by a divorce.

 

Point being, I could have married and had children with someone else who would not have done such a thing. The one thing I cared about in life was finding one person to grow old with and to share life with. I really couldn't give two shi ts about anything else: money, career, cars, whatever. I dated my wife for 5 years before we got engaged because I wanted to make sure that didn't make a hasty decision, that we were right for one another, and would not divorce. I wanted to marry one and only one person and have children with them. And I was a good husband and father. That was stolen from me amidst a whole lotta lies, deception, and betrayal. I cannot fix this. I cannot get those years back. I cannot get a do-over. Those years are gone. My children are now from a broken home and it was caused by someone who doesn't get that it IS a big deal. Marriage is a big deal. We took vows about it. I made life-altering decisions (like having children) based on those vows. Don't want to give up your single life? Fine. Don't get married! WTF is so complicated about that? And if you don't want to stay married, at least let the other person go for chrissakes.

Edited January 9, 2014 by BetrayedH

[ZMM]

Ahhh ZMM...you're telling me, you believe that if you went to the mall and asked people if infidelity is a devastating thing for them or was a terrible thing for them, the answers would be more along the lines of "No, it's not that big a deal?"

 

I would be willing to bet that wouldn't be the case.

 

Infidelity, abortion etc are all hot button topics for the general population. If you're not from Mars you can guess at that off the bat even if you know nothing else.

 

As I have always said, the answers here are only skewed to people who use internet forums, but the opinions expressed about this topic mimic how people think in general life.

 

It's the degree, MissBee.

[MissBee]

It's the degree, MissBee.

 

What does this even mean? Nevermind! I will stand by what I said as there is a lot more evidence in that direction.

[Snipercatt]

Considering the age of internet forums, I suspect that the voracity of opinions expressed are reasonably accurate as to those of society, in general.

[ZMM]

Considering the age of internet forums, I suspect that the voracity of opinions expressed are reasonably accurate as to those of society, in general.

 

Probably as accurate as internet polls.

[ZMM]

What does this even mean? Nevermind! I will stand by what I said as there is a lot more evidence in that direction.

 

I wasn't expecting to change your mind. Just commenting on what I meant and clarified in a subsequent post.

[veritas lux mea]

I think what ZMM means is you have to know your audience. If I go to a gay bar and ask who thinks homosexuality is a sin I am not going to get the same result as going into a conservative church. If I post on a dog forum that cat's are more awesome I will probably not get the same response as I would on a cat forum.

 

This forum is full of people who show pain, bitterness, hatred, and anguish over being hurt. As a rule the ones who ate hit the hardest by infedlity in this day and age turn to google and a place to vent. Or seek counselling. They are only a specific precentage or sampling of those who have been affected by infidelity.

 

My husband was cheated on and has no need to seek a forum. Not his personality. And I bet there are plenty out there just like him.

[Owl]

My husband was cheated on and has no need to seek a forum. Not his personality. And I bet there are plenty out there just like him.

 

Does he agree with your viewpoint on infidelity? Does he feel that he should have expected it, and he's "not that hurt" by the fact you did this?

 

Just minorly hurt that it happened, not majorly upset or angry or hurt?

 

Did he just 'suck it up' and drive on? Does he act like it never happened? Or like he doesn't care that it happened?

 

Did he have an expectation of monogamy as a result of your marriage, or did he realize that you were going to cheat on him in advance? Or did he agree up front that it was ok if you did so?

 

I'd also ask...how emotionally invested in the marriage was he before the affair? Post affair?

[veritas lux mea]

I think that when a person decides they no longer choose to obligate their promises they should inform the person to whom they made the promise, prior to being deceitful.

 

 

If we are to live in such a fashion then we should believe no one and not trust those that have made commitments to us, period. It isn't just about ideals, it is about a person's character. One can inform another they intend to break an agreement rather than deceive a person. The betrayer has other choices.

 

We keep getting back to the "morality" of it. That isn't what this is about. It was whether or not infidelity is made a BIGGER deal than it really should be in the victim's mind and if they would be better off with a little perpective and a more realistic view of marriage to bring with.

 

I'm going to use a very poor example now but I believe it does show somewhat different responses based on te mindsets involved. I used to be very active in horse sports. And it can be a very dangerous sport. As such I was prepared for it by wearing protective gear. But I also knew there was a very good chance I could fall of and be injured. And I did and it hurt like hell landing me in the hospital. But I wasn't surprised and I didn't lose my love of the sport. I got back on the horse, literally, and continued going knowing that it could happen again. On the flip side my friend was hurt quite badly, was shocked she fell in such a bad way because she never thought it would happen to her. Doubted her riding ability and thought that she would never make a good rider. And then quit. She had an unrealistic view of the sport and an ignorance to the danger and as such when she was hurt it was way harder on her than me. Her outlook changed the outcome.

 

I think one can have a healthy realization that their partner may prove one day to be disloyal and not have a fairtale expectation of marriage without being a commitment phobe. You can know something may happen to you without letting the fear of it control you.

[Owl]

We keep getting back to the "morality" of it. That isn't what this is about. It was whether or not infidelity is made a BIGGER deal than it really should be in the victim's mind and if they would be better off with a little perpective and a more realistic view of marriage to bring with.

 

I'm going to use a very poor example now but I believe it does show somewhat different responses based on te mindsets involved. I used to be very active in horse sports. And it can be a very dangerous sport. As such I was prepared for it by wearing protective gear. But I also knew there was a very good chance I could fall of and be injured. And I did and it hurt like hell landing me in the hospital. But I wasn't surprised and I didn't lose my love of the sport. I got back on the horse, literally, and continued going knowing that it could happen again. On the flip side my friend was hurt quite badly, was shocked she fell in such a bad way because she never thought it would happen to her. Doubted her riding ability and thought that she would never make a good rider. And then quit. She had an unrealistic view of the sport and an ignorance to the danger and as such when she was hurt it was way harder on her than me. Her outlook changed the outcome.

 

I think one can have a healthy realization that their partner may prove one day to be disloyal and not have a fairtale expectation of marriage without being a commitment phobe. You can know something may happen to you without letting the fear of it control you.

 

This just doesn't apply at all, whatsoever.