Is this out of bounds? Am I wrong?

[whysoglum]

So obviously posting here, my wife and I are separated and heading rapidly toward divorce; mostly her call. I should preface everything by saying I love my wife deeply and desperately want us to make amends and stay together- not just for the kids.

The short version of the story is that I committed financial infidelity. I racked up sizable credit card debt and consistently lied to direct questions about it to her for a good portion of our 7 years together. Lying is the key. I felt terrible about even though I continued on until I finally could do it no more and came clean. Money and cheating were her big no-no's in our relationship.

There was initial anger, then some calm, then we decided to separate for a while to give me an opportunity to prove I could be responsible on my own, eventually it settled and I stayed in the house, then she decided that we had to separate.

Somewhere around the first time we decided together to separate, she began leaving the house to go out in the evenings and at times didn't come home until 1 or 2 am. I gave her the benefit of the doubt because she wanted space and really didn't want to be around me. It became pretty clear that she was striking up a relationship with someone else and she took to acting in ways she never did. Coming home very late, closing the bedroom door (i was on the couch of course), being very protective of her phone when she moved from room to room (a woman who would normally lose it if it wasn't attached), drinking more, etc. All small things but out of the ordinary.

This went on for a few weeks- strained obviously but nothing dramatic. Then she decided again that we needed to separate. I agreed because it made some sense to give her space and time and I needed to get away from whatever relationships she had going. She did admit she was seeing people and going out with friends to "find herself."

I got an apartment and on the night I moved out we had an amicable conversation being somewhat sentimental over a quick sandwich before I packed my things in the car. Then things got bad- her date arrived at the house before I had left, in a situation of bad timing. I didn't actually see him because she panicked and quickly left. Things were good one moment and then I felt my heart sink.

Then it got worse. I made repeated trips to the house over the course of the night in a marathon moving session- i just wanted to get it done. Same night or early the next morning I arrive at the house, come up to the back steps to hear... We had just recently exchanged messages about how I was doing with the move and she knew I was going to be at the house. This absolutely leveled me. Completely decimated.

She said it was a drunken release and that it was wrong but that is about as close to an apology as I got. Do I deserve one? I don't know. The relationship continues. This man spends nights over at what used to be our house. I gave her space hoping it would run its course but in fact it has gotten worse. We have amicable times, we see each other regularly because we split time and help each other out with our 2 kids.

I am in love with my wife. She's not sure if she can love me. I have been completely paralyzed to make any grand gestures to my wife because she continues a sexual relationship with another man and is very blasé about it like its no big deal. It is a big deal to me, she knows it, and compares me to him often; about how I didn't give her the same attention and affection, the things I haven't said or done etc.

She says that he would walk away if we were to work things out. But I feel like we can't constructively work anything out with him between us.

I'm angry, sad, depressed all of it and I don't know where to put it. Being depressed I recognize that I turn a lot of anger and helplessness inward. There is a large part of me that wants to direct my anger out. Am I wrong? Am I falling for a rope-a-dope.

[whichwayisup]

NO man should be having sleepovers in the house. Where were the kids? Asleep? That is just wrong. I mean what if one of them had woken and walked in on her and him.

 

She needs to keep her private life private and away from you and the kids. PERIOD. No compromise there.

 

Sorry to say this, but your wife has chosen to let go and move on. She probably detached from you a long time ago, longer than you realize and she was 'done' as well, she was just waiting for the right time to end it.

 

There isn't much you can do as to woo her back. Only thing you can do is, work on you, improve your life, try to be the best dad to your kids and ONLY deal with your (ex) wife when it has to do with the kids. Through emails now.. No personal talk or chit chat. You must do this for your own sanity and don't let her see you're feeling inside. She is not your wife anymore, although she is on paper, on all other levels she isn't. I know it hurts and you love her but sadly when one person really wants out of a marriage there isn't much the other person can do to keep them from leaving.

 

Join a gym and punch the crap out of punching bag there. Work out hard and get your anger out that way, a constructive way that tires you out, gets you in good shape. Physical exhaustion will help you sleep at night.

[whysoglum]

I should clarify that my kids were with my parents that fateful night. I will give her the benefit of the doubt that he is not around at all when the kids are with her. I have asked her specifically to not and she has says she would never. Never is a long time though. But that is what makes it worse when I do have the kids with me and she is "alone." Theres no inferences to be made as to whats going on- and I get to re-live that night over and over in my head.

[dumped2013]

Dude,

Your wife was banging another guy in your house. This is just wrong. I would be on the phone with an Attorney.

[oldshirt]

Did you misrepresent yourself financially prior to marriage? Is other words did you misrepresent through words, deeds or omitions, that you were more financially successful and responsible than what you actually were/are?

 

She seems awfully cold, heartless and focused here. My gut instincts are wondering if she might be a bit of a gold digger and she realized there is no gold in this mine, only the shaft.

[oldshirt]

 

I should preface everything by saying I love my wife deeply and desperately want us to make it work and stay together-

 

 

Pretty soon you won't.

 

In a very short period of time you will realize what a cold, calculating, heartless, cheating whore she is.

 

Start circling your wagons, get a good lawyer and accountant and start doing what you need to do to protect your assets and relationship with your children.

 

I suspect she is all about the money and will do whatever she can to squeeze every last drop from you to feather her own nest.

[whysoglum]

Dude,

Your wife was banging another guy in your house. This is just wrong. I would be on the phone with an Attorney.

 

I'm not sure I have much to contest here. We have separated finances- we split the cost on the kids and she has taken on the house and it's expenses. Therefore while my name is still on the house, she claims it's hers and she can do what she likes.

[whysoglum]

Did you misrepresent yourself financially prior to marriage? Is other words did you misrepresent through words, deeds or omitions, that you were more financially successful and responsible than what you actually were/are?

 

She seems awfully cold, heartless and focused here. My gut instincts are wondering if she might be a bit of a gold digger and she realized there is no gold in this mine, only the shaft.

 

I don't feel as if I have ever misrepresented myself. After 8 years together I have had plenty of opportunity to be irresponsible. I've never had or earned a great deal. She's an accountant so she has taken care of finances for the most part anyway.

Together we've never been flush with cash nor have we been poor. In all of this we've both ended up in a tight financial situation however she earns considerably more than I do. Let's put it this way- I've got nothing for her to take.

Edited January 9, 2014 by whysoglum
Added text

[cozycottagelg]

It sounds to me like she built up resentment toward you because of the financial troubles. Someone showed her some attention and she ran with it.

 

It makes me sad to know you are still in love with you wife, while it's clear she is moving on.

 

Google - Walk Away Wife Syndrome

 

She was long checked out. That's what having sex with someone isn't a big deal to her, she considers herself single.

[whysoglum]

Is it bad that I froze in the face of all this?

She tells me I should have fought harder, been stronger, and shown up bigger if it's what I really wanted.

I feel powerless.

[oldshirt]

I don't feel as if I have ever misrepresented myself. After 8 years together I have had plenty of opportunity to be irresponsible. I've never had or earned a great deal. She's an accountant so she has taken care of finances for the most part anyway.

Together we've never been flush with cash nor have we been poor. In all of this we've both ended up in a tight financial situation however she earns considerably more than I do. Let's put it this way- I've got nothing for her to take.

 

Ok I think I can see what's happening here and its not looking good for the home team here.

 

Imagine someone was a very serious wellness physician who was dedicated to vegan diets, ran triathlons and made their living by working with other people to better their health and lives.

 

Then imagine their spouse was a drunk and smoker and lived on cheeseburgers and creme filled doughnuts but spent years lying about it and trying to cover it up. They may have eaten Brussel sprouts in front of their spouse but their spouse could see them getting fatter and fatter and sicker every day.

 

Eventually it would all collapse and the vegan would lose all respect and admiration for the grease-eater and would feel like they were completely incompatible and had nothing further to discuss.

 

Women have to have respect and admiration for their men in order to feel connected and to feel desire and attraction to them. Women also have to feel that their man respects and is devoted to them. They can't do that when their man completely dismisses and ignores the things they care the most about.

 

Money management and the accumulation of financial security is very important to your wife and she lost respect and desire for you. In her subconscious a man should be the one bringing home the bacon and managing it wisely to provide for the families comfort and security. It doesn't matter to her that she has a good income and manages it well, she wants to see HIM doing it.

 

Since you weren't doing that, she sees that as you not really loving or respecting her. Way deep down she feels if you loved and respected and were devoted to her, you would do what it takes to bring home the meat and manage it well to provide for her family.

 

She lost all respect for you. So much so that she isn't even trying to conceal her screwing around. She doesn't care that you know and she doesn't care that you caught her in the act or that she's leaving a wet spot of his sperm in your bed.

 

IMHO I don't think anything less than becoming a Wall Street Wizard will get her respect and desire back. And even if that did, I don't see how you could ever love and feel close to her after the way she has dismissed and disrespected you.

[oldshirt]

Is it bad that I froze in the face of all this?

She tells me I should have fought harder, been stronger, and shown up bigger if it's what I really wanted.

I feel powerless.

 

Yes.

 

She already feels disrespected and dismissed by you for not managing finances well.

 

The fact that she was banging another dude right under your nose and you did nothing reinforces to her that you don't care, don't value her, aren't strong and decisive and aren't willing to fight for her.

 

You are waaaay waaay waaay behind the 8ball here. You have been asleep at the wheel for a long time and your marriage and relationship are way off course.

 

If you want this to work you have serious serious damage control and work to do. It will require professional intervention and therapy. It will require you basically morph into something else.

 

Are you willing to do that for someone that has treated you this way?

[CarrieT]

Dude, SHE decided you should separate and you "wanted to give her space." That was tantamount to you giving your wife away and not fighting for the relationship.

 

Once you left the marital home, she emotionally checked out of the relationship and is probably 95% divorced in her mind.

 

If you SERIOUSLY want to salvage your marriage -- and your name is on the home -- move back in immediately.

 

You have to fight for your marriage and your home by being there. Your absence is your assent for her to move on.

[whysoglum]

All good points. And well taken.

It seems I have been wrong at every turn. I've done what I thought was right and at nearly every time it blows up in my face or makes our separation that much more permanent.

I am not completely absent even though I am not living there. We spend a fair amount of time together as a family that is and we have shared drink or two together here and there. My confusion is that she wants me close but not that close. Claims she loves me but not in love. We want to be amicable adults which has caused me to pull my punches. She know exactly what I feel about her relationship and yet it continues. I don't know how or if I can stop it.

We are for the most part amicable, however with him between us I see a constructive solution between us falter more each day.

[oldshirt]

Let's try to keep things in a little bit of perspective here.

 

In her eyes you dropped the ball in the financial management of the family and I am going to go out on a limb here and guess that you probably "checked out" and neglected a number of other areas of the marriage as well. That likely lead to her loss of respect, attraction and desire for you which made her vulnerable to the attention and desire of another man.

 

However, she still had an obligation to preserve the sanctity of the marital bed and was still obligated to keep other penises out of her vagina even though you weren't a good money manager.

 

If you were to straighten up your act and get your head back in the game and Velcro your balls back on, kick this guy's ass, and demand to enter counseling as a couple and at least address and recognize your issues and find out what needs to be done, you might on a good day stand a one in a thousand chance of reconciling. But if you continue this inept, defeatist attitude you are 100% guarenteed to fail.

[oldshirt]

 

 

It seems I have been wrong at every turn. I've done what I thought was right and at nearly every time it blows up in my face or makes our separation that much more permanent.

 

 

 

Go to YouTube and look up, "George Castanza Opposite" and watch the episode of Seinfeld where George realises every instinct he has and every decision he's ever made has been wrong.

 

He starts to do the exact opposite of what he would normally do and in a short period of time he has a hot girlfriend, a dream job and people start to treat him with respect.

 

Yes it's a silly sit com, but you could use a laugh and I think there may be some merit and a message in there for you.

[RightThere]

Go to YouTube and look up, "George Castanza Opposite" and watch the episode of Seinfeld where George realises every instinct he has and every decision he's ever made has been wrong.

 

He starts to do the exact opposite of what he would normally do and in a short period of time he has a hot girlfriend, a dream job and people start to treat him with respect.

 

Yes it's a silly sit com, but you could use a laugh and I think there may be some merit and a message in there for you.

 

I started doing something similar during my "fake" reconciliation with my STBXW that I'm trying to continue today.

 

I used to say "no" to a lot of things just because I'm kind of a glass half empty kind of personality. Now, I will always try to say "yes" without even thinking about it. And I'm finding out it's a lot more fun and my previous hang ups were all in my head.

[oldshirt]

I started doing something similar during my "fake" reconciliation with my STBXW that I'm trying to continue today.

 

I used to say "no" to a lot of things just because I'm kind of a glass half empty kind of personality. Now, I will always try to say "yes" without even thinking about it. And I'm finding out it's a lot more fun and my previous hang ups were all in my head.

 

I've stated doing the "Opposite George" too.

 

Sometimes you have to look, not where you are, but rather where trends are going.

 

If things are moving up, keep doing what you are doing.

 

But if thing are trending down, you need to do something different.

[K Os]

Is it bad that I froze in the face of all this?

She tells me I should have fought harder, been stronger, and shown up bigger if it's what I really wanted.

I feel powerless.

 

I have to disagree with oldshirt here. It's not bad that you reacted that way. It's just what you naturally did, and there's nothing you can do about that now so let it go. You can't be what you aren't. This is the common response when faced with such horrors, and you needn't beat yourself up about it. The normal response to great pain is self-protection from more. We can all look back and think, "Ah, if I'd just marched in there with a sword, beheaded the other guy, thrown her on the bed..." but that's the last reaction for most people when faced with infidelity and freezing cold emotional rejection.

 

You really want to even try with someone who treats you that way? Why???

[whysoglum]

Why? Is an excellent question and seems to be a running theme. I'm conflicted over this one.

I have to admit it's entered my mind more and more lately. I hold in perspective that I also screwed up big time. I imagine I hurt her as badly as she does me now.

There's a part of me that thinks that without our kid I would have told her to f-off the next day.

[K Os]

There's a part of me that thinks that without our kid I would have told her to f-off the next day.

 

That's right. And you're not alone in that. It's possible to look after your kid and effectively tell her to f-off at the same time. Many of us have had to do it.